Hell: I am very scared - mostly about insomnia

[mstimc]

I have been fighting WD and anxiety since  the 1990's.  WD was hell and it took  long time and a lot of work to get through it.  But I did.  So can you.  Its in you.  If it wasn't it, you wouldn't come here for help.  

[Sunnyday]

On 1/28/2020 at 10:16 PM, Hell said:

I did but nothing works. I can fall asleep on zyprexa at night but I wake up every second. I am tired of this. I look like hell and feel like hell. I am going to give up this fight. Thanks everyone for trying to encourage me but in some cases there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Not everyone can recover from this. I am just one of those cases. 

Hi Hell. Please don't give up yet. I know it's rough, I think most of us truly know that you are suffering a lot! But genuinely try to look at it from a bigger perspective if you can. By that I mean that it hasn't been very long since you quit those drugs. You also said you tapered very fast, my guess is this can make it even more vital to let it take some time. You don't know yet if you can recover from it because too short time has passed in my opinion. It seems for most people on here it takes longer than a few months to recover and most likely it will for you too. It's easy to almost get lost in the bad feelings and sensations because there are so many during WD, and that makes it harder to see the full picture.

So from my point of view you're definitely not an exception yet and I definitely see a light at the end of the tunnel for you (even if you can't see it yet).

[Sunnyday]

This might seem like an odd question Hell but do you have anything during the day that you are occupied with? It could be hobbies or a job or something like that. You don't have to disclose it on here but it can be worth looking into for your own sake. The more time we have to think and ponder sometimes the worse it gets.

When I felt like it couldn't get any worse the thing that worked the best was finding distractions. So anything positive that takes your mind off the withdrawal and the sleeping issues (movies, videos, books, games, good friends, walks in nature etc etc).

 

Also instead of trying really hard to sleep, maybe just decide to rest to try to take away some of the frustration. Even if it's not as good as sleep we sometimes have to accept the next best thing until it gets better.

 

Edit: Try to also avoid the catastrophical thinking if you can, it's so easy to spiral down in it completely and make the suffering worse that way. Try to see the examples on this site of people who did overcome insomnia for example, because there are those too. I'd say more people overcome all these symptoms including insomnia than the ones who don't. The odds are on your side.

[pinciukas]

33 minutes ago, Sunnyday said:

This might seem like an odd question Hell but do you have anything during the day that you are occupied with? It could be hobbies or a job or something like that. You don't have to disclose it on here but it can be worth looking into for your own sake. The more time we have to think and ponder sometimes the worse it gets.

When I felt like it couldn't get any worse the thing that worked the best was finding distractions. So anything positive that takes your mind off the withdrawal and the sleeping issues (movies, videos, books, games, good friends, walks in nature etc etc).

 

Also instead of trying really hard to sleep, maybe just decide to rest to try to take away some of the frustration. Even if it's not as good as sleep we sometimes have to accept the next best thing until it gets better.

 

Edit: Try to also avoid the catastrophical thinking if you can, it's so easy to spiral down in it completely and make the suffering worse that way. Try to see the examples on this site of people who did overcome insomnia for example, because there are those too. I'd say more people overcome all these symptoms including insomnia than the ones who don't. The odds are on your side.

Yes with sleep it is difficult more you try to sleep less you sleep. I observe this on myself if I try to sleep I can't fall a sleep if I am on vacation and don't care I am falling asleep and sleeping well. Strange.

[Andie]

They way you describe the change in your bite and waking yourself up as you are falling asleep stood out to me as I was reading your thread. 

 

Have you spoken to your Dentist about the change in your bite? Grinding and clenching (often unknowingly) your teeth can cause your bite to shift.

 

 It is entirely possible that the way your jaw is aligning can be disrupting your sleep. Dentists nowadays are very familiar with diagnosing sleep disordered breathing, they can even refer you on to a sleep specialist if you need it. Just keep them informed of whatever drugs you may be taking as they will take to this into consideration. 

 

If you are still worried about this, there is no harm in getting this checked out. If it’s nothing, at least you have ruled out one  possibility. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mustafa]

Hello dear,

How is insonomia for you now?

Hope it is going down .

Mustafa

[Hell]

On 2/4/2020 at 3:34 PM, mustafa said:

Hello dear,

How is insonomia for you now?

Hope it is going down .

Mustafa

It is getting even worse. I sleep maybe few minutes in total. Waking up as soon as I fall asleep, if I even manage that. I gave up all hope, It will never get better, only worse.

[pinciukas]

14 minutes ago, Hell said:

It is getting even worse. I sleep maybe few minutes in total. Waking up as soon as I fall asleep, if I even manage that. I gave up all hope, It will never get better, only worse.

How long you can't sleep? My sleep is also not so good and this night I slept maybe 3 hours. 

[Hell]

9 hours ago, pinciukas said:

How long you can't sleep? My sleep is also not so good and this night I slept maybe 3 hours. 

It is 3 months already and no improvements. I know I won't suddenly get my sleep back but nothing is changing for the better, only worse. I don't know if I even sleep half an hour in total.

[Hell]

I am sorry I am not responding to everyone but I feel really bad.

[pinciukas]

15 minutes ago, Hell said:

It is 3 months already and no improvements. I know I won't suddenly get my sleep back but nothing is changing for the better, only worse. I don't know if I even sleep half an hour in total.

Omg not even an hour? It is crazy how do you manage to do thru your day? Don't have hallucinations?

[Hell]

5 minutes ago, pinciukas said:

Omg not even an hour? It is crazy how do you manage to do thru your day? Don't have hallucinations?

No but I feel and look awful. My eyes are red and my memory is bad. 

[pinciukas]

Just now, Hell said:

No but I feel and look awful. My eyes are red and my memory is bad. 

I can imagine. I got once bad sleep for a few hours for a week and I was really bad. You are very strong person 3 month without sleep is long time

[Hell]

Just now, pinciukas said:

I can imagine. I got once bad sleep for a few hours for a week and I was really bad. You are very strong person 3 month without sleep is long time

Well I am thinking of killing myself every day so there is that. Every person has a breaking point I am close to reaching mine I think.

[mstimc]

20 minutes ago, Hell said:

Well I am thinking of killing myself every day so there is that. Every person has a breaking point I am close to reaching mine I think.

You know that's no answer, Hell.  You come here for help so you still have hope.

[pinciukas]

47 minutes ago, Hell said:

Well I am thinking of killing myself every day so there is that. Every person has a breaking point I am close to reaching mine I think.

It's not a answer killing yourself. 

Maybe moderators can suggest something for you? 

[mustafa]

12 hours ago, Hell said:

It is getting even worse. I sleep maybe few minutes in total. Waking up as soon as I fall asleep, if I even manage that. I gave up all hope, It will never get better, only worse.

I think it is good you even sleep for minutes, 

What I know about this insonomia( when it is the main symptom), is that you rarely falll asleep and as soon as you are going to fall asleep, you wake up; it is good you have some minutes .

If you would like to know my experience with your main symptom this, I think you should be knowing how is your memory, is your memory ok and good?

Can u remember any thing happened to u?

[JLex1981]

It will pass, it’s the only thing in life I know for sure. Things change . 

[Icip]

I'm praying for you, the majority of stories I've read have noted improved sleep. Try not to place too much pressure on yourself, it only worsens your outlook.

 

Keep well,

 

Icip.

[Emma7855]

@Hell, I constantly think about it too. It's hard. Please just know that you're not alone. I've found that setting little goals helps. Like, if I can get through this week, then I'll let myself consider it. Then gradually extend the timeframe. That's what I'm doing, and I'm still here, albeit hanging by a thread... but I'm still here.

[Hell]

Now I got tinnitus too. Wish I never reinstated this poison.

[Sunnyday]

On 2/27/2020 at 3:15 PM, Hell said:

Now I got tinnitus too. Wish I never reinstated this poison.

Hi Hell. I have a relative with tinnitus as well, and it gets especially frustrating for them when trying to sleep. Their solution have been audio books. Can you maybe lay down and listen to something on low volume when the tinnitus bothers you? 

 

You're doing well for keeping at it even if it feels awful. Maybe if you feel too bad you can go and talk to someone? For many it helps to share the burden with someone. Take care and I have hope for you.

[Hell]

My sleep is getting worse and worse. I can only sleep for a few minutes. I can hardly walk and think. I can't enjoy any hobbies anymore. I am close to my end. There is nothing to live for now when I can't even do basic things I liked.

[Sunnyday]

@Hell Are you able to wait it out? There were times during my own withdrawal where some days, all I could do was sit/lay and wait for the misery to end because there was nothing I could do about it but endure it. It's really hard, but if you can convince yourself that it will eventually pass maybe you can find the strength to do that?

That was the only way I got through my worst days, by holding on to the fact that it would get better because it will. The vast majority of people on here get better. And many of them also had severe symptoms for several months just like you. If you can, try to hold on to that fact for your own sake.

 

Here's a relaxation video if you feel like giving it a try. I do these kinds of relaxation techniques every night and sometimes during the day too. There should be other videos in that playlist as well if you'd rather try something else. If you do it, try not to put pressure on yourself and just kinda go with it.

 

Hope you don't mind me including the link here. 

 

[Icip]

I felt exactly the same way as you do @Hell, I promise that it will get better - just in time. I can only agree with Sunnyday in that you must try and wait it out. I know waiting is hard when you can’t do anything - SD is right in suggesting an audiobook, maybe not just for tinnitus but also to help pass time, you may not absorb it though anything you do get from it will be a bonus. My tinnitus is getting better Hell, but it had to get worse before it started to improve, I hardly notice it now despite upsetting me greatly when I do.

 

We all recover at different times, yours may take some time yet, but you’ll change direction soon and will notice improvements, everyone here does.

 

The nature of withdrawal is that you feel stuck, you can’t believe a future where you feel better, you only remember fragments of what you were before, and what you’ve become now; it’s a fixation on the present.

 

Music helped me greatly with withdrawal, maybe for a while I could not enjoy it as I used to which I didn’t like. You need to do things so that when you do improve, you’ll notice how you’ve improved (ie finding more pleasure in listening/more of a desire to go outside). It’s the small things.

 

Take care Hell, your head is a little sensitised and overly excited right now. Please give it time to calm down. PM me at any time, I check this site daily so am more than happy to talk to you.

 

Icip.

[Hell]

It will be 4 months of not sleeping soon, if things didn't get better at all I don't see how situation will improve later on. I can't wait anymore I feel like this will be the end of me. I mean I could wait but I know that things won't get better. My life is complete hell now and it is not worth living like this for the rest of it. I know you all mean well but I will never get better.

[Armorall]

Hell, have you read Alto's thread on Lamotrigine and microdosing? I don't think you can do it alongside tapering, but maybe something like that can be done? Updosing? What did the mods say? Also we are looking at the oxygen bar at home out of the hyperbaric oxygen tank discussion. Maybe you can get some kind of oxygen inhaler?

[Icip]

Even for me, four months isn’t a very long time for withdrawal. Improvement will come, maybe not as fast as you’d like. Please take care

 

Icip.

[Icip]

@Hell, have you been to the doctors about your eyes? I’ve tho gut before that the double vision and glare could be dry eyes? I cried the other day and the blurriness went for as long as I was/along with you saying your double vision goes for a bit after closing them - I have that too?

[Hell]

16 minutes ago, Icip said:

@Hell, have you been to the doctors about your eyes? I’ve tho gut before that the double vision and glare could be dry eyes? I cried the other day and the blurriness went for as long as I was/along with you saying your double vision goes for a bit after closing them - I have that too?

Yeah I was, last year, immediately after I noticed it. They said it could be meds I was taking then but reversible after stopping (nope, still had it of meds). And they said it was astygmatism. There is no cure for that btw. 

[Rozon1]

Hey @Hell have you gotten better in regards to feeling tired? Are you feeling tired nowa days?

[Sunnyday]

Hi @Hell. You seem convinced it will never get better, but as far as I can tell, all you base that belief on is that you haven't gotten better yet (?). I'm telling you this only to help you to possibly see a different perspective. Plenty of people have persistent symptoms just like you. Just because their insomnia is not always as bad, does not mean some other symptom isn't.

 

I remember a woman on this forum, I can't remember her name but she put up videos of herself experiencing akathisia and it was constant suffering for a long time. And that is just one of many, many examples of people who have been in the same situation but later recovered.
I know it's very hard to feel hopeful about it, but if you actually choose to look at it from a logical standpoint it will be easier to stay more optimistic. We all have extreme symptoms in one way or another and it's not uncommon that they last for months.

What I'm trying to say is that considering what set off your insomnia (WD), it's very unlikely that it will never go away. A big part of getting through it is to change the mindset, even if it's very difficult. It's worth it to be able to wait out the symptoms so that we can live a good life after. And when we have learned to change our mindset, we have a very useful skill for any future problems in life. That's how I see it at least. 

 

I hope you're managing at the moment. I wish there was more we could do for you. Take care. (And if you want to talk about how to change the mindset feel free to message)

[Hell]

The biggest problem (I think) is that I probably got severe sleep apnea somehow and I choke as soon as I am about to fall asleep. It could have something to do with how my bite changed overnight and my jaw when I stopped the meds cold turkey. I don't see how this can improve now, it seems permanent. Only options I have now is to try cpap and sleep study or something but it is too expensive and I seriously doubt it can improve my situation. There are people who got sleep apnea and can't sleep without cpap, their situation can't improve on its own so how could mine? Even if it helps am I really done? Not being able to sleep without some f...... machine (even if that works) strapped to my mouth. I can't accept that. Losing something so crucial as sleep overnight and being ok with it? No. I just can't and would rather die soon.

[mstimc]

You won't die and I know you don't want to.  Your body will make you sleep.  And lots of people use CPAP's with no problem--don't make up your mind you can't use one without trying.  That's your WD talking.  You will recover, but it takes time.  Give yourself that chance.

[Hell]

My body is never sleepy. 4 months passed and it is still the same. For some people sleep never comes back, why would I be the exception? 

The only reason when I ever fall asleep is because of the meds and even then I get the apnea thing. When I finish tappering I will probably never sleep. Not even as much as I do now. My brain is ruined and life is pointless now.

[mstimc]

Hell, sleep deprivation is very unlikely to cause permanent damage.  However, lack of sleep impairs cognitive reasoning and causes depression, which is probably driving your catastrophic thinking.  @Sunnyday is right--you are convincing yourself you'll never sleep or get better while you are unable to think clearly.  You need to give yourself the chance to rest your mind instead of telling yourself you'll never get any sleep.