Hell: I am very scared - mostly about insomnia

[Hell]

Hello everyone. Don't know where to start. Firstly excuse my english because it is not my native language.

 

My first experience with psychiatric drug was with elicea in 2015 when I visited my first psychiatrist (can't remember the dose). Took it for 2 months then stopped cold turkey. Suffered severe depression and brain zaps for short period after that. I recovered. Also I took xanax occasionally then and in 2017. 2018 took xanax more often for like 3 months (never more than once a day, 0.25mg, maybe 0.50mg sometimes). Never suffered withdrawals after I quit. At least nothing that I am aware off.

 

Fast forward to august 2018 I visited another psychiatrist and was put on calixta (mirtazapine), can't remember the dose atm. Took it until december or january when she got me off it cold turkey and put me on seroxat. Never had any problems until I started noticing double vision (ghosting) of bright letters and lights from a distance but It wasn't that bad. After like 3 months on seroxat she wanted to switch to zyprexa and diagnosed me with borderline personality disorder. Keep in mind that I never suffered psychosis and was only depressed and unmotivated person.

I had trouble with my insurance and needed to sorted it out first because it is an expensive drug. I quit seroxat first around april this year. Never had any problems except the double vision one.

 

After I got my insurance in june I started Zyprexa. First I was on smaller doses (2.5mg-7.5mg) then i got to 10mg on september. I started losing interest in my hobbies and got very suicidal and depressed. She started me on zoloft around middle of october (first few days on small doses then on 25mg) and cut my zyprexa dose to 7.5mg.

 

Around 13th of november (a week ago) I decided to quit both drugs and stop poisoning myself after a very fast tapper (few days). I am in hell since.

I have lots of symptoms (most are probably from zyprexa because I took it for longer) but what I find worst is not sleeping. First I was very tired and sleepy from not sleeping but recently I am never tired and I probably don't even sleep one hour in total. It is scaring me. I always slept on my back but now I can't do that because my mouth make a weird noise and I start panicking.

 

I am very scared and don't know what to do. I was thinking of tappering but going back to drugs scare me. I am afraid I will never sleep and my brain will detoriate. My god what have I done to myself. 

 

 

[Hell]

Hello everyone. Don't know where to start. Firstly excuse my English because it is not my native language.

 

My first experience with psychiatric drug was with elicea in 2015 when I visited my first psychiatrist (can't remember the dose). Took it for 2 months then stopped cold turkey. Suffered severe depression and brain zaps for short period after that. I recovered. Also I took xanax occasionally then and in 2017. 2018 took xanax more often for like 3 months (never more than once a day, 0.25mg, maybe 0.50mg sometimes). Never suffered withdrawals after I quit. At least nothing that I am aware off.

 

Fast forward to august 2018 I visited another psychiatrist and was put on calixta (mirtazapine), can't remember the dose atm. Took it until december or january when she got me off it cold turkey and put me on seroxat. Never had any problems until I started noticing double vision (ghosting) of bright letters and lights from a distance but It wasn't that bad. After like 3 months on seroxat she wanted to switch to zyprexa and diagnosed me with borderline personality disorder. Keep in mind that I never suffered psychosis and was only depressed and unmotivated person.

I had trouble with my insurance and needed to sort it out first because it is an expensive drug. I quit seroxat first around april this year. Never had any problems except the double vision one.

 

After I got my insurance in june I started Zyprexa. First I was on smaller doses (2.5mg-7.5mg) then i got to 10mg on september. I started losing interest in my hobbies and got very suicidal and depressed. She started me on zoloft around middle of october (first few days on small doses then on 25mg) and cut my zyprexa dose to 7.5mg.

 

Around 13th of november (a week ago) I decided to quit both drugs and stop poisoning myself after a very fast tapper (few days). I am in hell since.

I have lots of symptoms (most are probably from zyprexa because I took it for longer) but what I find worst is not sleeping. First I was very tired and sleepy from not sleeping but recently I am never tired and I probably don't even sleep one hour in total. It is scaring me. I always slept on my back but now I can't do that because my mouth make a weird noise and I start panicking.

 

I am very scared and don't know what to do. I was thinking of tappering but going back to drugs scare me. I am afraid I will never sleep and my brain will detoriate. My god what have I done to myself. 

[manymoretodays]

Welcome Hell,

 

I'm seeing from your posts:

 

2015 first psychiatric drug elicea( known as escitalopram in the U.S.) for 2 months and CT(cold turkey)

2017 Xanax 0.25 to 0.50 mg on occasion, and off and on for 3 months in 2018

2018 mirtazapine(calixta) for 6 months, CT off,  then onto 2019 paroxetine(seroxat) for 3 months, CT off

2019 June Zyprexa(olanzapine) 2.5 mg- 7.5 mg

2019 September Zyprexa 10 mg

2019 October Zoloft(sertraline) added and titrated up to 25 mg, and then reduced to 7.5 mg

13 November quit both medications(taper of a few days)

this can be copied over(and corrected if needed) to a signature when you are able.

 

You are also reporting that you may be sleeping one hour in 24 hours at times, and are feeling very scared, panicking, and even having thoughts about suicide.  I hope you will hang on, yet if you are feeling like you need immediate help, please look at the following link which might help you find suitable help in your area, to keep you alive

For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

 

You've been through some intense medication treatments and then WD's(withdrawals), all of which contributes to your present state of being now.  I encourage you to hang on.

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. And sleep is really important during withdrawal.  Insomnia is no small deal.

And as you may have seen, we recommend a much slow taper than what you have done, usually a 10% taper from each previous dose of medication.

I'll give you just a few more links to information here too, perhaps just for future reference, as I know that you having a really tough go of things right now.  ((((Hell))))- those are hugs for you Hell.  We know. 

What is withdrawal syndrome

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal syndrome

Tips for tapering off Zyprexa

 

We do our best as moderators, to get to new posts within 24 to 48 hours of new postings.

It appears that your last post under the user name of "Mistake" goes with your initial introduction with the chosen user name of "Hell".

Going forward.......If you could post under the initial user name of "Hell", that will be most helpful.  @Hell  Bookmark this page, as it's the one with your user name of "Hell" and for now you may just want to stick right here with your postings.

One introduction per member is the rule here.

We are an internet forum that offers help with harm reduction, in reducing, or tapering off medications.

We are NOT a crisis intervention site.

 

How did you sleep last night?  And......

Do you have any Zyprexa available?  I'm asking, as even just a small dose of that now, may help with the sleep problems and some of the rest of your intense symptoms.  Sometimes we suggest just a crumb of a tablet even.

 

And okay, welcome again Hell.  I can't give you any immediate Heaven at this moment.  I've gotten you started though and hoping we can help you find better stability, learn something in the process, and become a bit more empowered when it comes to psychiatric drugs.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

moderator mmt (manymoretodays)

I'm including this thread Lalochezia! it's our cursing/swearing thread for members only and a good place to let it out verbally.  We try to be a family friendly site otherwise, with our words and all.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by manymoretodays
added CT's to signature prototype for clarity

[Hell]

I am sorry for overreacting. You can delete all my posts except the first one. I created a new account because I thought there were some problems.

 

Last night I was waking up as usual but slept better because I took 6mg of melatonin. The problem is even I know I should be sleepy I am never feeling tired and I don't even have headaches. 

 

I have more of zyprexa tablets left btw.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Hell.

 

How much sleep did you get after taking 6mg melatonin? Why did you choose 6mg?

 

What dosage are your Zyprexa tablets?

[Hell]

Thank you. I am never sure how much sleep I get since this all started. I usually just lie awake because I am never sleepy or I just fall into very short sleeps. Last night I went to bed around 1:30am and I think I fell asleep shortly after which was not happening before melatonin. I was waking up sure but I felt I had more sleep than usual. I got out of bed around 11am because I couldn't fall asleep again for a while. I sleep on my sides btw because when I lay on my back some weird things are happening with my breathing when I am falling asleep and I start panicking. That started happening after I stopped taking drugs.

 

They told me at the pharmacy to take 6mg of melatonin (two tablets) after I told them about my situation. I read your thread btw and I know you said 2mg works best for you and melatonin works at small doses.

 

My zyprexa tablets are 10mg but I have a pill cutter.

[Altostrata]

Withdrawal insomnia is very common when one has gone off drugs too fast. Do you have any other symptoms of withdrawal?

 

What time of night did you take melatonin? How did you feel the next morning?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Hell]

I have some stomach problems and burping. Nausea also but very rarely. It was worst in the first few days when I throwed up once. I have some strange sounds in my throat when I lay on my left side and my stomach is working. Also I almost never feel hungry but sometimes I do. It is all bearable, not sleeping is what worries me most atm. And my double vision is bothersome, it happened from other drugs I took tho (either after stopping mirtazapine cold turkey or taking seroxat). I am afraid it could get worse with time. It drove me away from some of the hobbies I liked. It is one of the reasons I stopped taking everything because I don't want it worsening and more health problems down the line. 

 

I took melatonin at 12am. I felt more refreshed and I am feeling better today in general.

 

I'll put everything in my signature. I hope I can do it from my mobile because my pc is not working very well recently. I will try.

[Altostrata]

When did you start melatonin? You might take melatonin earlier, about 10 p.m., to work better with your natural melatonin production, and turn off all bright lights to help it along. Stay off the computer at night.

 

If you can get your sleep to improve a little bit, that can assist recovery, which is very gradual, slow and frustrating.

 

6mg melatonin is a lot, but if it works, it works. Listen to your body, it will tell you when 6mg is too much.

 

[Hell]

I started melatonin last night. Thanks for the advice, I will do that.

[Hell]

I can't sleep at all. It is 5am here. I am going to take 2.5mg zyprexa now. If it doesn't help enough should I up the dose tommorow? I think 5mg would be fine start. When I fast tappered before I could hardly sleep on 2.5mg but 5mg was ok If i remember correctly. 

 

I will go with 10% method and get 5mg pills soon, I will cut 10mg for now.

[Hell]

Should I stay on 2.5mg or try 5mg tonight? On 2.5mg I managed to fall asleep but I was still waking up and after a while couldn't go back to sleep again.

 

I don't have any new withdrawal symptoms from reinstatement.

[Altostrata]

I'd not take more than 2.5mg, at the same time each night. It will take several days to ramp up.

 

If 2.5mg Zyprexa is effective somewhat, let it help your nervous system settle, don't expect an immediate return to normal sleep, give it time. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Hell]

Damn. I already took 5mg last night because I couldn't decide what to do. It helped me sleep somewhat but not like it did before quitting.

[Altostrata]

You may find that aggressively attacking your withdrawal symptoms boomerangs back on you in a bad way. It's unlikely you can turn back the clock on your mistake by guessing the right pill.

 

Better to start low with 2.5mg and be patient, see what it does over a week.

[Hell]

Couldn't sleep last night at all on 2.5mg. :(. 

[Hell]

I don't see the point in fighting, I will never get my body back to where it was before meds and insomnia will ruin my brain more than anything else. Life is too hard anyway and there is no meaning in suffering. 

 

I feel just letting myself go and giving up. My life is over now and I can't wait to die somehow. It can't come soon enough tho. When it does it will end my suffering. Life is only suffering to me now.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by manymoretodays
merged from those feeling desperate in S and SC

[Gridley]

@Hell

 

Sadly, many of us have felt that we simply cannot carry on. Most of us here have been in that situation, some as a side effect of medication and others from withdrawal. It is a feeling that is all consuming and taunts us day and night. We are all deeply saddened to see a fellow member feeling so low and being powerless to help. We are not professionals and not equipped to offer the support and guidance that is needed, but are here to offer understanding and empathy.  

 

What you are feeling is real, it is devastating and it hurts, but it will get better.  In the meantime it is important that you talk to someone. Talking about your feelings will help you to deal with them. There are many agencies that have helplines dedicated to helping people who are suicidal and I am going to post links to some organisations that can offer the support that we can't.  

 

Talking helps us to put things into perspective and release some of the tension, especially when no-one seems to understand or believe what we are going through. If you are religious then maybe someone at your church will understand and listen without judgement. 

 

I have found helplines extremely helpful in the past, sometimes talking to a stranger who doesn't know you is easier. They  have no preconceptions and do not judge you, simply listen as you pour out your heart.

 

 If the feelings are overwhelming then call the emergency room, or accident and emergency department of your local hospital. 

 

We at SA care about you very much and want to see you get better, it is devastating for all of us when someone cannot take any more and wish we could do more but we are limited in what we can offer.

Edited April 10, 2020 by manymoretodays
merged from those feeling desperate in S and SC

[DrugfreeProf]

Gridley, what a wonderful, sensitive and caring response. It is just great to see this kind of empathy expressed on this site to so many fellow suffering souls.  

It is all too rare these days; so many people live alone in their anguish.

Hell, please feel free to PM me.  I am willing to be a pen pal/support buddy.

I'm always happy to support people in WD as I have seen up close what this devastating syndrome can do to people and how few people there are who "get it."

DFP

Edited April 10, 2020 by manymoretodays
merged from those feeling desperate in S and SC

[Terry]

I'm so sorry to hear about your insomnia.  I've had insomnia to some degree for nearly 25 years.  I've had a few nights with very little sleep, but never had one with no sleep at all.  Please don't give up hope on trying to stabilize.  I know things can seem very dark and bleak during withdrawal, but recovery IS possible.  I will be praying for you.

[Hell]

Thank you very much for your kind words. I wish you the best as well.

 

I am not very optimistic judging by some people who had similar experience...

I have to admit that not sleeping is challenging and dangerous but I will try to hold on. 

[Altostrata]

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Better to start low with 2.5mg and be patient, see what it does over a week.

 

Do not expect anything to instantly fix you.

[Hell]

Ok. I will try to stay on 2.5mg for a week but not sleeping at all is taking it's toll. 

[Altostrata]

As withdrawal symptoms fluctuate, you may find your sleep goes up and down, no matter how much Zyprexa you take.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Hell]

I will. Thank you for your time.

[Hell]

Another symptom that started when I ct'ed was that my bite changed. I always had crossbite since childhood but now my upper and lower wisdom teeth are touching. It doesn't bother me that much.

 

About sleep last night. Got some between all the waking up. I don't work atm so I can stay in bed for longer but I don't sleep more than 10-15 minutes without waking up I think. Then I just try to sleep again but sometimes it takes forever.

 

[Hell]

Just laying on the bed most of the time not sleeping. Upper leg joints feel uncomfortable after laying for a while. It doesn't help my sleep. Side effect of zyprexa I think.

 

One important thing I noticed is that whenever I am close to falling asleep (maybe when I'm asleep too) I inhale loudly which wakes me up. Maybe I stop breathing.

 

I really messed up my brain after CT'ing. I don't have any hope that things will improve tbh. I was always a realist.

[Gridley]

42 minutes ago, Hell said:

I don't have any hope that things will improve tbh.

They will though.  The brain has a remarkable ability to heal itself.

[Hell]

8 minutes ago, Gridley said:

They will though.  The brain has a remarkable ability to heal itself.

Why are there people like PoetJester then. Guy haven't slept since he got off his meds in 2014 and his health is not improving but getting worse. I took the same meds as him. It is nice to have hope but it doesn't work like that. I could live with many other symptoms but not sleeping is torture. Watching your own brain deteriorating day by day. It is like living in hell. 

[Onmyway]

On 11/28/2019 at 12:59 PM, Hell said:

Why are there people like PoetJester then. Guy haven't slept since he got off his meds in 2014 and his health is not improving but getting worse. I took the same meds as him. It is nice to have hope but it doesn't work like that. I could live with many other symptoms but not sleeping is torture. Watching your own brain deteriorating day by day. It is like living in hell. 

Hi hell, 

it is not possible for someone to not have slept since 2014, they would be dead by now. Even when someone thinks that they are not sleeping the body takes short naps/time-outs by itself. 

 

WD insomnia does improve. I went for over 4-5 months with less than 4.5 hrs of sleep a night and I was truly miserable. But it got better. What helped was 1) ear plugs 2) total darkness in my bedroom (foil on the windows, extra shades etc.) and 3) realizing that not sleeping 7-8 hrs a night was something I had to accept and it was not the end of the world - i.e. it wouldn't kill me. Eventually, things got better especially after I started taking melatonin at bedtime and holding on cutting my medicine more. I still wake up with dread and cortisol spikes but things are a bit better. I have recently discovered sleep hypnosis for relaxing sleep by Sleep Cove. They are on both Spotify and Youtube. This will get better! It will. 

 

 

[Sunnyday]

Hi Hell. To me one of the keys to get through this withdrawal (from my perspective), whether we're talking about insomnia or other severe symptoms is to try to hold on to the possibility of it getting better. I also see myself as a realist (albeit a bit cynical as well) but humans also tend to remember the worst things that we hear or read and I think that's also good to keep in mind. I think plenty of people do have insomnia as a symptom but many also do get better over time. 

I find it's also easier to worry about things if I let myself get too pessimistic about the situation and don't try to be somewhat optimistic. But I know that it's extremely hard some days to do though, so I understand your point of view and I've felt similarly. It's especially hard when reading about others not improving for a long time.

 

I was wondering about the strange breathing you mention when you try to sleep, do you think it could be anxiety or worry related? And if so have you tried some kind of relaxation techniques? I find guided relaxation videos helped me more than trying to do it on my own in a quiet room. Even if it didn't make me fall asleep, it made me able to relax for a while and let my mind and body rest to an extent. Almost like a kind of powernap sometimes but being awake.

 

I hope things will get better for you soon. Take care.

 

 

[Hell]

@Sunnyday

 

I doubt it is anxiety. Just before falling asleep and probably during sleep I think I stop breathing and wake up. Or my breathing intensity changes suddenly and I can hear it.

 

It looks like sleep apnea or something. I am really scared it won't go away.

 

I can go back to sleep faster than before but I am still waking up all the time.

[Sunnyday]

@Hell I understand your fear. It's a really difficult situation. 

 

Different things work for different people, but finding ways to let go and to find acceptance has been very important to me when I have found no solutions and when I think things might become permanent. What I mean by acceptance is to realise that this is the situaiton I'm in, and I will have to live it and take one day at a time, or even one minute at a time. Looking at the future and bigger picture too much can be very daunting and worrisome, in my opinion. But it seems to be what most people automatically do.  (That was the reason I actually found this forum at first. I was afraid some WD symptoms would be there for life and also make my general health and life worse in the long run.) 

Our perspective on things that happen often affect our happiness more than the thing that is actually happening. I have heard that somewhere, not sure where so unfortunately can't give credit but it's a good thing to remember. I won't ramble on more about that. 

 

How do you do with physical activity? Are you able to do that in some way and do you find it helps. I know many people in withdrawal are not able to do much of that.

 

Hope you've gotten some sleep today, take care.

[Sunnyday]

I want to add that I don't think you should dismiss a possible health issue like sleep apnea if you suspect that is what's going on. I just noticed there's a lot of worry/fear so I responded mainly to that. 

[Hell]

I didn't sleep at all. Whenever I was falling asleep I stop breathing then start breathing loudly. I wake up and my heart starts beating. Over and over again.

 

This is horrible I can't live like this. 

Psychiatrist wants me on 5mg zyprexa until my sleep gets better then to start tappering but I doubt it will improve with these symptoms.

 

I am so tired of this, it is too much for me. I hate going to sleep while never being sleepy and trying to force it. I hate trying to sleep only to wake up immediately hundreds of times with my heart racing and weird breathing.

 

I can't...

[Sunnyday]

Hi @Hell , how are you feeling? Have you considered going to a doctor (not the psychiatrist) and maybe look up the breathing issue? Maybe it can be worth checking out if you feel very concerned about it. If nothing is wrong it can sometimes be nice to get it confirmed as well.