Rozon1: Effexor withdrawals

[Rozon1]

yes, but does that mean I'm stabilizing? @Colonial? Is it best I stay the route I'm taking? I still deal with nervous sytem issues but I suppose they could be worse. 

 

How are you feeling btw?

[Colonial]

It's really what definition any one gives to any of these words.

To Me, Your symptoms getting better is, in a sense, going forward to "Stabilizing".  

Unfortunately, know one can say if its the best route.

Neither route might be "better" than the other.

 

I know Your looking for someone to be able to give You a "definitive" piece of info that can lead to the conclusion of 1 is better than the other, but it's just not possible.

All You can do is assess how much suffering your in, assess the "risk" of reinstatement vs the potential reward, and make Your best educated guess.

 

I'm doing ok, I guess.  Been better been worse.

Got My cowboy hat on today. Lol. I suppose thats something. 🤠

 

 

[Colonial]

 

Another member just reinstated on 1 mg of Celexa after CTing in September.

Hopefully it will go well for them, and we can see some good results for reinstating further out than just a few months!

[Armorall]

@Colonial thanks for the explanation. I thought that the reason for caution against CT was the result of a longer withdrawal with more extreme symptoms- not from "damage" but as a reaction to sudden discontinuation. ( See the plant and trellis analogy- trellis is gone but plant is not damaged, just needs a longer time to franticallyrebuild ) but whatever. Maybe the difference in interpretation is pointless. Steady and quick healing to you.

[Rozon1]

you’ve been here longer than me @Colonial. Any idea if most people that reinstate late at such a low dose have any luck? 

[Colonial]

I really don't know, sorry.

But it takes some time, don't worry about it yet. 💝

[Rozon1]

What do you mean don’t worry about it yet? As in don’t worry about reinstating yet or just keep waiting it out? @Colonial

[Colonial]

Sorry, I thought I was replying to someone else.

I meant it takes a while after reinstating for symptoms to be affected , and they only did it a few days ago.

 

[Colonial]

Hey @Colonial when you say your personally think people with serious symptoms don’t fully heal it just makes me think I’m gunna have this for the rest of my life. Are you saying that regardless of how much I heal, I probably won’t ever feel tired again? That’s what gets me. 

As for Your question in the other thread:

 

Your equating "healing" with symptoms disappearing, I am not.

You can be symptom free but still not be completely healed IF another non WD event can put You back into a wave.

It just means Your CNS is not completely back to normal as it was before the withdrawal trauma.

 

Your just defining the meaning of the words to mean the same thing, healing and symptom free.

I am using "healing" to defining the state of Your brain and CNS, NOT your symptoms.

Symptoms are a result of the damage to the brain and CNS, Not equal to it

 

For example, if you break your leg, your in pain.

In 3 weeks your leg is still broken and not healed, but the pain and symptoms may be gone.

But if you stand up and try to walk on it, you will relapse and fall, and the pain will return.

[Rozon1]

Hey @Colonialyoure so informative, thank you. I have one last question. This feeling of “always feeling awake”.. do you think It’ll eventually go away with time?

 

also a little earlier in our conversation, I referenced the drug suppressed my nervous system. As in, my nervous system was never damaged, but the drug made me feel tired all of the time, slow my metabolism and was losing hair while I was on it. Now it’s just the opposite. I’m guessing my nervous system relied on the drug to do all of that but now it’s trying to figure it out on it’s own. 

[Colonial]

All of the anxiety and nervous system symptoms Your suffering is normal, even for brain stimulant anti depressants like Wellbutrin.

So even coming OFF stimulants will do the same. Logic would think You would be calmer coming off a stimulant, but the reaction is the same.

And yes, all the symptoms will fade in time. 🤗

[Rozon1]

@Colonial It’s funny because three weeks ago I had this ungodly amount of anxiety maybe even a mild form of akathesia. I told myself if that went away I’d be happy. And it did go away but I’m still not happy lmao. This is so ***** haha. I laugh now because that’s something that I can sorta do now. Laugh a bit. It’s interesting. Everyone in my personal life tells me not to go back on. They think it’s just not gunna make it any better because I’ll eventually have to get off again. And there’s too many unknowns. But you’re right, I didn’t have an adverse reaction to the drug. So maybe it wouldn’t hurt to try a small dosage. 
 

I will say this. If my nervous system calms down I’ll be a lot happier. Maybe it’s starting to do that and I can’t realize it yet. 

[Colonial]

I generally "saw" my progress after the fact...

Like I would stay at a certain level for a few weeks or a month.

Interestingly, not each symptom "progresses" positively at the same rate as others.

You may notice some resolve much faster than others.

There is no rule on this, as each med "targets" a different part of the brain, so depending on the med will determine Your situation.

 

[Rozon1]

hey @Colonial yea, I'm afraid to reinstate due to all of the variables. Is that a legit concern? 

[Colonial]

 

It's a legitimate variable, but I wouldn't make it out to be a strong fear that paralyses You to the point of not making an attempt if You don't have a good reason not to.

You just need to realize it's ok to have concerns, but You also need to be careful not to "spread" that fear in other peoples threads...

Double guessing their decisions in front of them about dosage amounts etc..

 

It's good to follow other peoples progress and check in on them, but it's not fair to "play out" the fears in Your head in their thread...

When they just stepped out in faith and reinstated and now Your double guessing their decisions right in front of  them.

Or to be "hounding" them each day to know if they made progress...

Because all that will do is make them feel bad about their decision if Your asking all the time and they don't have anything to report...

 

Just be careful you don't accidentally "spread" Your internal angst to other people who had the courage to step out and try... that's all...

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

yea, I wasn't trying to at all. Was actually trying to be supportive but I can see how that looks. Won't happen again @Colonial. 

 

I just feel like my nervous system isn't going to get better based off how I feel right now. I think that's fair to say. 

 

I appreciate the advice. 

 

What would you recommend. How did you taper? Scale or liquid?

[Colonial]

 

But No one can recommend what to do for You...

But almost everyday your asking someone to do it ..

I don't think Your going to re instate, but Your not "sure" of Your own decision, and Your almost "trying" to be talked out of it, into trying to reinstate...

 

The only thing I can recommend, is if your not going to reinstate, to stop torturing yourself and worrying if you made the right call not to.

There's no right or wrong this far out.

And it's not fair to Yourself to keep "punishing" Yourself every day for a decision You might "want" to try but just can't get up the "courage" to do it...

 

And please, I don't mean your a coward, I just think Your not able to commit to trying, your legitimately scared of an adverse reaction...

But it's almost as if You almost want to be "talked out" of Your own decision.

But You have to see it's not fair to everyone else here that You keep doing that to us, either...

 

I'll support you, and so will everyone else, in whatever you choose, but all of your legitimate questions have been asked and answered repeatedly...

And it's painful to watch you torture yourself like this...💝😔💝

 

I had my Wellbutrin compounded at the pharmacy, and the Paxil, luckily is also manufactured in liquid..

So that was a huge blessing! 😎

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

no, I'm not asking anyone else to do it. It's sad.. It's actually sad, because you can clearly see what my mind is thinking. I'm glad I can be transparent and understood but on the other hand, I hate it. I wish I could be stronger. I can have my pharmacy compound effexor but I fear the liquid will mess me up since I've never taken it. 

 

This torture is because I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. 

 

Also, the fact That IM NOT SURE what Im going through isnt worse than what most people experienced and I don't realize how bad it actually is. Reinstating might be the best route. 

 

@Colonial

[Colonial]

 

Well, we can't know, that's the problem.

Do You struggle with being a perfectionist?

 

Sometimes we have to "allow" ourselves and give ourselves the  permission to make a mistake once in a while...

If you were considering a NEW drug or had a history of a bad reaction to this one, or had not reliable way to get the dosage correct...

Then I would say that's a legitimate worry...

 

But If the pharmacy can compound it correctly for you at each dose down along the way, that's really the only legit concern I had FOR You..

You have to realize, either way you go, it's going to be a long haul of recovery...

I'm not sure You've even really discovered, to yourself, the "fear" of trying the reinstatement.

Even if you dont see huge relief, the support it gives most people to their CNS, Long term is  a big help.

 

I don't think that it's a liquid is a reasonable fear.

Like I said, I think Your still having so much anxiety, underlining, that it's making you be "afraid" of making a "positive proactive" decision to try...

 

You might not "feel" as anxious as before, but I can "see" it manipulating your thoughts...

But if your going to try, you have to stick with it and not sit around " wondering if"...

I mean, if you have an adverse reaction, that's different, but if not, you have to commit to WD'ing responsibly over the next year or so...

But if the pharma can compound it, that's not a issue.

 

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

21 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

I will say this. If my nervous system calms down I’ll be a lot happier. Maybe it’s starting to do that and I can’t realize it yet. 

 

 

yes it's starting to calm down!! I am so impressed with the progress you've made @Rozon1

yeh, you're still second guessing everything but I'm starting to think that this may be how you stay connected to people.

Some people can be very frank, know what they want and just ask for it, like the folks who can say "I'm feeling very nervous right now, can someone reassure me that this is going to be ok" 

Some of us don't really know what we want or need (I am often in this category myself) and may fall back on an old pattern just to stay connected to people.

My pattern involved asking people for advice and opinions (which I usually ignored, because I mainly just wanted to stay in touch with people most of the time LOL)

 

you are going to be ok and you are already doing so much better!!

 

you are going to heal,there's no doubt about that.

 

my opinion, for what it's worth, is that you will heal faster than average.

 

I also think that keeping the reinstatement option open may be a coping method for you.

I know when I was in the thick of WD, I needed to think that there was something I could take, some pill, some supplement, anything that would relieve the withdrawal symptoms or make them more bearable.

Just holding out hope that something might work, got me thru from day to day.

so it's not a bad thing, to think about it. To keep that option open

 

I reinstated after about 5 mos. at a VERY tiny dose. It didn't make anything worse for me, but  it also didn't make things a whole lot better either. It just got me thru the first few weeks of acute symptoms, then I moved on to trying something else like epsom salt soaks, 

and then something else

just to get myself thru from day to day.

 

there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing this.

 

 

You are already able to laugh at yourself, that is SO fantastic!! you are healing and you are growing and maturing at the same time

 

if I were you, I'd be very proud of myself.

 

I have a feeling you're going to have one heck of a success story to write, I look forward to reading it.

 

in the meantime, enjoy every little thing that feels even a wee bit better. It will help keep your strength up. you're fighting the good fight and you are winning

 

[Rozon1]

hey @Colonial I never had a bad reaction to this drug until I started changing around my dosages too much. I just don't think my body knew how to react to it. I think I'm more worried about the wrong dosages at this point. I am an absolute perfectionist and I'm a certainly OCD, which I know doesn't help. I can't be confident in my decision, no matter what I do. That's the tough part.

 

hey @Happy2Heal THANK YOU so much for the words of encouragement. Today was tough for the first stretch. I went to work and felt a bit better over all. Still having the physical problems is what keeps me and my mind twisted. Those words are so encouraging! I pray for the day I can come back here and have a success story to show you guys. That's what I hope. Truly. If i ever get to 70% of where I was at, I'll consider that a success story. I almost teared up reading what you wrote. It's nice to be able to tear up once in a while. I love having some FEELINGS. They're mainly bad but I'm happy to have them. 

 

I'm trying to win. You have no idea how much your words mean to me. THank you!

 

[Colonial]

 I am an absolute perfectionist and I'm a certainly OCD, which I know doesn't help. I can't be confident in my decision, no matter what I do. That's the tough part.

 

Well?

The good News?

Even if You make a mistake?

We're still gonna Love Ya...🤠💝😋💝🤪

[Rozon1]

Hey @Altostrata you said that most people that reinstate are happy they do it, correct? I’m not dealing with the mental anguish anymore or the overwhelmkng anxiety. It’s very small now. Now it’s just physical symptoms that have me concerned. How do you feel about where I’ve come since I’ve first posted in here? Progress compared to what you see? Am I seeing progress positively? I know you’re busy but you and @brassmonkey and @Gridley see this a lot. It helps give me perspective.

 

today has been good for my mood since the weather is good. Just physically I can’t get over it.

 

hey @Colonial thanks for the heads up. No matter what I do or how good my mood is it’s always in the back of my mind that I have these physical symptoms that make things worse. 

[Colonial]

That was why I said that only You are really able to "know" how much Your suffering...

That's the main factor in these types of decisions, since no one can "know" how long until the symptoms begin to subside to the point their managable.

 

[Effexorless]

Hi @Rozon1, I am new to this forum and have some of the same experiences as you have.  I am also three months post Effexor.  Every time I think I have made it through I find a new feeling or emotion to deal with.  I am so sorry you are having the issues you are.  I found CBD with melatonin and exercise to be helpful in dealing with my anxiety and restlessness.  I guess that is akathisia that I keep seeing, the inability to be still and wanting to jump out of your skin ...  

 

I have gone through periods where I feel super energized but lately I feel so exhausted by the end of the day.  That is actually what led me to this forum.  I googled "why is mental health so exhausting" and found and article about Laura Delano which led me here.  

 

I have told my sister several times that maybe I need a band aid drug but so far she has talked me out of it.  She doesn't want to lose me back to that emotionless abyss I fought my way out of.  So far I am very happy that I have not returned to drugs and I keep looking forward to each new day thinking "this is the day I will we ok".  I quit smoking 10 years ago and I keep trying to think of this the same way I did that.  One day and one step at a time.  Every moment non medicated is a win for me.  I do see a therapist and talk through some of the feelings and thoughts I am experiencing and so far we feel that I am on the right track.  

 

You are doing great and I just wanted you to know that I understand what you are feeling :).

[Rozon1]

fukkkkk, on one hand im glad my anxiety isn't as bad anymore. On the other hand, **** I might **** up by going back to the medication.. damnit @Colonial

[Colonial]

 

(Muted shuffling as Colonial **** It stumbles to the laptop)...🤪

 

Bad day, huh buddy?

 

 

[Rozon1]

no no, @Colonial today has been my best day since withdrawls, actually. Just trying to mentally deal with the physical symptoms.

[Colonial]

 

Great!

Just remember that it ebbs and flows over time...

I had 1 good day, and then 4 bad, then 1 good and only 3 bad, then 2 good and 2 bad...etc...

Over time You'll see the progress, not in any one day or week...

Now if You promise to be gentle?

I'll let ya borrow my cowboy hat. :😎

🤠

 

[Altostrata]

Rozen, you've been asking the same questions over and over for 7 pages.

 

We don't know when you'll recover. It may be 6 months, it may be more, it may be less. We don't know.

 

On 2/13/2020 at 12:45 PM, brassmonkey said:

Anxiety is one of the more pervasive symptoms of ADWD and will come and go as it pleases.  It frequently comes in waves that last several weeks to months and then goes away for a while, only to return when it feels like it. The waves tend to get shorter and less intense as time passes and a person stabilizes and their taper progresses.  It is a really tough symptom to live with, I had a very strong 18 month wave after I jumped to "0" that lasted several weeks.  But it is just a very uncomfortable feeling that can be lived around and in time it will go away.

 

brassmonkey already explained to you that the progress of recovery from withdrawal syndrome comes in The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Also read

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

"Is it always going to be like this?"

 

On 2/25/2020 at 1:09 PM, Rozon1 said:

It’s been 3 months and one week out. I’m seeing improvements. Still dealing with symptoms but decreasing. @brassmonkey not asking you what to do just asking you to observe my situation from the outside in and give me some perspective. Thanks boss! 
 

@Colonial thank you for the advice and input! I’m 3 months and one week out. 

 

You have already seen improvement. There is no reason to think this will not continue, although the slowness and irregularity may be frustrating.

 

On 2/27/2020 at 3:07 PM, Rozon1 said:

Hey guys.. today is a bit better but still dealing with symptoms. I keep hearing I'll maybe see improvements in 6 months. and I appreciate it. Those are the words that keep me going. I need someone to tell me something. Has anyone recovered from symptoms that that genuinely were going to last forever. Not because their going through it but because they've been going through it for so long and it just feels like it's not going to get better. 

 

I legit don't know how anyone can "tough" out this type of CT im dealing with.. Surely someone has gone through something similar. I feel most people woulda reinstated already where I've just "toughed it out" because I'm so stubborn. Maybe reinstating was the best option? 

 

Words of encouragement are weclome

 

Many people here have recovered from symptoms far worse than yours. Please read other Introductions topics to see what other people are coping with.

 

Your choice is to take care of yourself, stay calm, don't do anything foolish, and learn to cope with symptoms as your recovery progresses very slowly

OR try a very low-dose reinstatement of Effexor. We cannot promise you any instant fixes.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

The next time you want to ask "how long is this going to last?" or "what should I do?", please re-read this topic from the beginning.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

hey, @Altostrata when you say people that have had worse symptoms(which makes me feel better) than me, what do you mean? Because, I just don't see how. I understand, they might have more symptoms, but youve ran into people that legit felt like their body was constatnly "on" and could never really yawn properly or ever properly feel tired? Because that's how I feel. 

 

I legit have felt like this for 2 months almost with no signs of letting up. The anxiety has come and gone for the most part but still left with physical symptoms which do not seem to be better. I do admit, sleep has come easier than it has in the past but still can't really get proper sleep or ever feel at ease. 

 

also, @Colonial when you say managable, what do you mean? These symptoms are literally killing me mentally. It's hard to cope. Not sure if that's "managing"

[Colonial]

 people that have had worse symptoms

Not to answer someone else's question, but:

Amnesia, Hallucinations, Psychosis, Sleep Paralysis, Being conscious but being paralyzed at the same time, Blindness, Seizures...

Not knowing where they are or how they got there, on top of constantly being "wired" and insomnia.

Their all worse than were most of us are at any given time.

 

As for "managing":  Your not instituionalized for any of the above issues, right?

 You know who You are, You can think, type, comprehend, etc...

No one is "downplaying" the suffering, but it's what I meant by only You can know how bad Your symptoms are affecting You to decide if one wants to reinstate.

You said they weren't really that bad Sunday:  " I’m not dealing with the mental anguish anymore or the overwhelmkng anxiety. It’s very small now. Now it’s just physical symptoms "

So if your only dealing with the physical symptoms at this point, Your much better off than alot of people right now, thank God. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Rozon, please read other Introductions topics to see what other people are going through.

 

You're not the only one, and you're not the worst case. But you do need to learn to take care of yourself instead of asking other people to deliver answers to you.

[Happy2Heal]

18 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

when you say people that have had worse symptoms(which makes me feel better) than me, what do you mean? Because, I just don't see how. I understand, they might have more symptoms, but youve ran into people that legit felt like their body was constatnly "on" and could never really yawn properly or ever properly feel tired? Because that's how I feel. 

 

I legit have felt like this for 2 months almost with no signs of letting up. The anxiety has come and gone for the most part but still left with physical symptoms which do not seem to be better. I do admit, sleep has come easier than it has in the past but still can't really get proper sleep or ever feel at ease. 

well, it's difficult for anyone to know *exactly* what you are feeling Rozon, but I had almost constant anxiety, panic attacks, dread and outright fear for over 2yrs, day and night, it was rentlessless. Both my mind and my body could never relax at all. I never felt tired but I knew I had to be, because I slept so little, I had severe insomnia for over 4yrs. And I had a lot more symptoms, and I consider myself one of the LUCKY ones, as I've read the stories of ppl who had much worse things that lasted much longer. 

 

that your anxiety is "gone for the most part" is HUGE, that's wonderful. 

 

It may seem hard to believe that people can tolerate all this, but generally speaking, those of us who are "older" have had enough life experience and generally have lived thru some other difficult situations, and while they weren't any fun, we learned that we could tolerate a considerable amount of distress. We also learned that bad times don't last forever, that things are always changing. We realized that we are strong. WD and recovery seriously tested our strength, it still ranks as THE most difficult thing I've ever lived thru, but I don't know, you just get thru it somehow.

 

you hate it, you wish it would end, you feel each day that you can't take another day of it, but you just do.

 

You're getting thru it just fine. 

 

When I joined this forum and read the threads, which you clearly must not have done, or you wouldn't keep asking this question!

when I read other ppls stories, to be honest, I thought ppl were exaggerating, I suspected that some ppl might be malingering and/or looking for attention or something! I didn't know what, but I had the hardest time wrapping my head around the sheer volume of suffering that I was reading about here.

And I thought I was going to be different. I thought I could jump off at 2.5mgs and be ok. I thought I was a "special case". I think it's almost natural to think of ourselves as special cases, in one way or another. Some folks here think that their suffering is unique and the "worst" , others like me, think we're going to get thru this easily and ignore the warnings to go slow and not make sudden changes. We all like to think we're special in some way, right?  

 

I suffered terribly for not heeding the warnings I was given, but even so, I got thru it. and I realized that the WD symptoms I was reading about are real and just as awful as ppl were saying that they are. I learned the hard way, story of my life  it seems LOL

believe me, Alto knows, the mods know and YOU would know if you took the time to read thru some threads, even half a dozen of them, that others here are having symptoms just as bad and mostly worse, than yours are, based on their accounts of them. And now having gone thru it myself I know, they were not exaggerating or looking for attention, YOU are not exaggerating or looking for attention. I KNOW that you are truly having a really hard time, we all know you are. 

 

but it IS something that MANY MANY others have gone thru (and worse) and you're going get thru it too.

 

I know it seems unbelievable, but trust me- it's the reality of recovery from these foolish drugs.

 

I think maybe it's time for you to find something to distract yourself with, what do you think?

what is going on in your life that is interesting?

 

 

[Rozon1]

@Happy2Heal @Colonial thanks for the reply. I just worry by going back. It scares me that I won’t ever get better from this. I don’t see how I’m gunna get better from this. Like I legit don’t see how my nervous system can be so broke. So it makes me pessimistic. I’m sorry guys but these physical symptoms are tough. I don’t know how they’re gunna resolve themselves. 
 

I get people get insomnia, but when you never feel tired, your body is always on and that hasn’t even shown much signs of improvement. Wonder if that means my body needs the drug. Like I’m glad I’ve shown signs of improvement but it’s one thing after another. 
 

do you guys think I’ll feel the same way I do in a year from now? 
 

logic says no, correct? Since withdrawls are something that are supposed to get better. 

[Cocopuffz17]

You will get better. I felt very similar to you. I was crushed by fatigue and I was unable to do one push up for months on end. I now do 150-300 daily. I would of never thought I would of got here if you would of asked me back then.