Csilover: What to do? Effexor

[brassmonkey]

From your signature it appears you've been splitting the 200mgai tablets since mid April. If you haven't been having problems then you should be okay with it.  At higher doses like this, carefully split tablets will be close enough to each other as to not throw off the dose by much. When it comes time to start a taper, then you will have to be more accurate.

[Csilover]

@ChessieCat thank you! 

[ChessieCat]

Thanks for weighing in brassmonkey.  I hadn't taken into consideration the high dose that Csilover is taking.

 

Csilover, at least you know to be aware that if you start having difficulties and you can't put it down to anything else (eg being sick, additional stress) then it might be that inconsistent dosing is a problem, and you can address that issue.

[Csilover]

7 am woke with anxiety

8 feel very anxious. Eat breakfast. Potatoes, boiled eggs, blueberries and bananas. facial muscle and eye twitching. 

9 am take .5 Ativan. 

10 am facial twitching intensifies. Muscle twitches. 

11 am start to feel good. Feel like myself.

12 pm run some errands feel good.

12:30 Window of libido and thoughts of romance. 

1 pm feel myself. calm

2 pm feel myself calm

3 pm head pressure intensifies. Feel a bit more apathetic. anxiety

4 pm go on a walk with my dog. Muscle twitches. 

5 pm feel anxious and overwhelmed. Go to my room to relax. 

7 pm lay down. 

9 pm Take 75 mg Seroquel and .5 Ativan

woke multiple times in the night. Not restful sleep

6 am woke up with anxiety. Went back to sleep. 

8 am got breakfast. Banana and blueberries with boiled egg.

 

[Csilover]

@ChessieCat Well I started having sleep issues since last Saturday. I was sleeping pretty well for a solid week until then. I did spend a long day outside at our lakes and swam. Did a lot of activities that day. I don't know if that was it. 

or  also could be this?

I saw this on the Seroquel withdrawal page:

Scallywag: There are some members who have reported that their symptoms didn't show up until close to 3 weeks after a dose decrease on an "anti-psychotic."  It wouldn't hurt to take longer holds than 3-4 weeks, especially at the start of your taper so that you learn your symptom pattern.
Maybe that would make sense why I am not sleeping well right now. I. dropped my Seroquel on April 28. 

 

Also last Thursday, I took my morning meds 45 minutes late, so maybe that could be it to... Lots of things to factor in I suppose. 

[Csilover]

 

 

 

 

[Csilover]

I don't know how I'm going to stabilize before I taper. I definitely think the adverse reaction I had has made me so up and down and I don't know if that will resolve in a while. I hope it does but I don't know. 

[Csilover]

 

[Csilover]

May 27

9 am took .5 Ativan

10 calm

12 calm

1 calm feel pretty good.

3 get anxiety in stomach. Calm myself down by going on a walk and bathing my dog.

4 calm

5 calm. Therapy session.

6 calm

8 start to feel a little foggy. Head pressure

9 Take .5 Ativan and 75 mg Seroquel. 

9:45 Fall asleep

Sleep well. Only waking once.

7 wake with some anxiety. Use some coping skills. Calm down. 

9 am .5 Ativan

9:45 calm. Tingling in forehead and nose. 

 

[Csilover]

Should I drop soon? @Altostrata

[Shep]

Csilover, you began Ativan on April 12, which is now 6 weeks ago. So you likely are dependent on it. I'm not sure that doing an aggressive taper at this point is advisable, especially with your history of waves. 

 

I would advise building a solid baseline of sleep at night and a lowered anxiety level during the day first. As you're doing that, really work on building up your non-drug coping skills as habit. You want to reach the point where if you have an attack of anxiety, you automatically go into a breathing exercise.  You automatically shift your thoughts and stop engaging with them.

 

Because you were drugged at such a young age, you're going to have to learn how to manage your emotions without a chemical fix. This is hard for all of us who went on these drugs young. But it's extremely important. 

 

So you may want to hold everything for another month. If you can build a solid foundation before tapering any more, it will set you up for more success later, especially if you spend your time working on things like breathing exercises, yoga or stretching, doing hobbies, spending time with friends and family, etc. Give your nervous system some healing time while you stockpile a toolkit of coping skills. 

 

Please don't look at this as a setback - you've made phenomenal success at lowering your drug burden with Seroquel. I'm very proud of you for doing that. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

[Csilover]

Okay @Shep. Will staying on the Benzos and stufff longer make my adverse reaction worse though? Isn’t it stressing my system out more? I feel like a lot of the anxiety I get is interdose from the Ativan? I had this with Xanax last year. Won’t it be harder to get off of the longer I take? I’m so stressed

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Csilover said:

May 27

9 am took .5 Ativan

10 calm

12 calm

1 calm feel pretty good.

3 get anxiety in stomach. Calm myself down by going on a walk and bathing my dog.

4 calm

5 calm. Therapy session.

6 calm

8 start to feel a little foggy. Head pressure

9 Take .5 Ativan and 75 mg Seroquel. 

9:45 Fall asleep

Sleep well. Only waking once.

7 wake with some anxiety. Use some coping skills. Calm down. 

9 am .5 Ativan

9:45 calm. Tingling in forehead and nose. 

 

 

Csilover, I'm not seeing an adverse reaction in this latest post. Let's see if you can build on this. It's possible some of your earlier symptoms were more related to PMS and your cycle, as well as overdoing it at the lake, as you mentioned earlier.  Let's give this a bit more time to see if you can have more days like this. 

 

11 minutes ago, Csilover said:

Won’t it be harder to get off of the longer I take? I’m so stressed

 

You're stressing yourself out for no reason. Once you're dependent, you're dependent. The goal is to feel as good and to be as functional as possible during your taper. 

 

You're showing remarkable resilience and I'm so proud of you for using your non-drug coping skills as soon as you see upticks in anxiety. You're learning new skills and putting them into practice. This will also help you build a solid foundation.

 

But please don't worry about being on these drugs and it making things worse. Coming off too soon will damage your nervous system more than staying on the drugs longer and building up a solid baseline before continuing to taper. 

[Csilover]

Okay @Shep. Thank you for the encouragement and support ❤️ How long do you think the taper would take then after the month is up and I stabilize? I don’t know if I can get my doctors to write the scripts for a long time.

also I was referring to the adverse reaction after the paxil

 

[Csilover]

9 am .5 ativan

10 am a bit anxious. Tried to clean my room. used organic cleaner. Fragrance too strong, so I drove to get some unscented cleaner. 
11 am anxiety in the car. Bitter taste in mouth. Listen to ted talk. 

12 pm calm a bit

3 pm eat falafel. Immediately feel awful. Vomit. anxiety skyrockets. Stomach hurts and in knots.

4 pm crying.

5 eat yogurt. Vomit. Anxiety high.

6 calm down. 

8 eat plain burger without bun and vegetables. Easier on stomach. 
9 pm take 75 mg seroquel and .5 Ativan. 

10 pm fall asleep.

4 am  wake up let dog out
5 am fall back asleep

6:30 am wake up with anxiety. Try to go back to sleep. 
8 am get cereal with blueberries, raspberries and coconut milk. Feel ill. Feel like I’m going to get sick. Don’t get sick. Heart beating fast. Muscle twitches in stomach.
9 am take .5 ativan. 
9:45 heart still beating fast. Muscle twitches in stomach

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, Csilover said:

9 am take .5 ativan. 
9:45 heart still beating fast. Muscle twitches in stomach

 

Does the fast heartbeat get worse after taking Ativan at 9 a.m.?

 

When was the last time you changed the Seroquel dosage?

[Csilover]

@Altostrata it got worse after and the twitching but then it calmed down around 10 o clock. It was followed by a Few panic attacks that calmed down at around 1. I Feel fine now. Was able to run errands for mom to distract myself and do some cleaning. I haven’t changed the seroquel since May 7. That’s when I completely dropped the day dose. 
 

today I’ve just been eating some apples and carrots and pieces of some toast to settle my stomach. It still hurts a little but not bad.

 

[Csilover]

I hadn’t had falafel or yogurt in a while so I don’t know if I’m reacting to that. I feel more anhedonic today and at 5:30 just started having these “brain vibrations” when I lay down. 

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, Csilover said:

@Altostrata it got worse after and the twitching but then it calmed down around 10 o clock. It was followed by a Few panic attacks that calmed down at around 1. I Feel fine now. Was able to run errands for mom to distract myself and do some cleaning. I haven’t changed the seroquel since May 7. That’s when I completely dropped the day dose. 
 

today I’ve just been eating some apples and carrots and pieces of some toast to settle my stomach. It still hurts a little but not bad.

 

 

Please include any periods of speedy heartrate in your daily notes, as well as the panic attacks.

 

Can you explain how the panic attacks feel? Do they come on gradually or happen all at once? Do you have any particular thoughts when this occurs?

[Csilover]

@Altostrata okay. I will let you know. Thank you so much for the help ❤️.

  the panic attacks tend to happen all at once. I get really overwhelmed out of nowhere and can’t stop crying. It feels like I’m being covered in a dark cloud. In the moment it feels like the end of the world.  Then it will pass and i will all of a sudden feel positive again.  Like a switch flips on and off for the panic attacks.

[Csilover]

8 am eat cereal. Feel Ill
9 am take .5 ativan. Heart palpitations. Panic attack. 

11 am panic attack

1 am calm down 
7 calm. Loud noise followed by nothing in ear. Hearing goes out in left ear for a few minutes then comes back. Ear aches. Chest pains. 

9 75 mg seroquel .5 ativan

10 head pressure gets bad.
10:45 Feel more apathetic.  Feel wobbly and drunk. 
woke up several times in the night. 
7 an woke up with anxiety

8 use coping skills. Calm down. 

[Csilover]

@Altostrata when I was taking the high dose of seroquel, I had these visual distortions where things sitting still look wavy like they were moving. I noticed it today again while walking down the road. The road looked almost like water how it was moving. 
 

I also keep having my hearing go out for a minute or two at a time. I’ll have tinnitus and then can’t hear out of one ear This happens every couple of days and my ears have aches pretty consistently since on seroquel. They don’t hurt as bad since I dropped the dose and  definitley better than it was but concerning nonetheless. Is this normal?

 

never had hearing issues till now.

[Csilover]

My anhedonia and apathy get worse as times goes on. My most hated symptom seems to be coming back 

[Shep]

On 5/29/2020 at 9:41 AM, Csilover said:

8 am get cereal with blueberries, raspberries and coconut milk. Feel ill.

 

8 hours ago, Csilover said:

8 am eat cereal. Feel Ill

 

Just so we can rule out any food issues, what kind of cereal are you eating? Does it contain sugar or are you adding any sugar to it? 

 

Do you feel better if you eat protein instead of carbs first thing in the morning? 

 

Do you feel ill before you eat or does eating trigger it? 

 

Sorry for all the questions, but food can play a big role in how we feel during withdrawal. 

 

 

[Csilover]

@Shep yeah I’ve noticed I feel a lot better when I just have eggs and fruit! So I’m going to do that from now on

[Csilover]

7 am wake up anxious. 
8 am eat eggs and fruit. Use coping skills. Calm down. 

9 am took .5 ativan

10 am feel pretty good. Get dressed for the first tome in forever

11 am feel good. Go on a walk.

12 pm calm

1 pm calm

2 pm calm

3 pm head pressure, start to feel down and sad 

5 pm go on a walk and calm down. Road looked wavy. 

7 pm cry. Write in diary and make thankfulness list. Calm down. head pressure intensifies 
8 Head pressure bad
9 pm take .5 Ativan and 75 mg seroquel. 

10 pm fall asleep 
7 am sleep well. Wake without anxiety. 

[Csilover]

2 hours ago, Csilover said:

@Shep yeah I’ve noticed I feel a lot better when I just have eggs and fruit! So I’m going to do that from now on

The cereal I eat is heritage flakes without any added sugar. But I’ve noticed I feel a lot better with just eggs. 

[Csilover]

My parents really want me off the meds. They can see I’m different and not myself. If I get a good weeks sleep this week, can I drop something?

My doc also isn’t plan on getting me ativan for months and months so I’m gonna need to switch doctors 

@Altostrata @Shep

[Altostrata]

Perhaps you can start tapering Ativan, att @Shep

[Csilover]

Okay. Should I give it a week or two of good sleep? Or start now?If it is really very detrimental to my recovery to start now, then I will try to switch docs. @Altostrata @Shep

[Csilover]

I will do whatever you guys think is ultimately best. If it’s truly dangerous for me to taper right now. I will wait. 
 

it’s just hard because I don’t know if the symptoms are from my adverse reaction in the hospital or if it’s from the meds I’m on

[Shep]

18 hours ago, Csilover said:

The cereal I eat is heritage flakes without any added sugar. But I’ve noticed I feel a lot better with just eggs. 

 

Thanks for this information. Scroll down and you'll see the ingredients in this ceral (what is listed on the back of your cereal box):

 

Organic Heritage Flakes® Cereal

 

It has 4 grams of sugar, which is equal to a teaspoon of sugar. It also has 24 grams of carbs, which isn't overwhelming, but first thing in the morning, your body is likely in need of protein, not sugar and carbs. Even healthy cereal can contain items that are difficult to tolerate during withdrawal. 

 

Also, it only has 4 grams of protein, which isn't much. 

 

I would stick with eggs first thing in the morning. Two large eggs have about 12 grams of protein. 

 

Please be extremely careful with your diet. It sounds like you're dealing with withdrawal induced low blood sugar issues, so eating clean healthy proteins and low carbs and no additional sugar will be very helpful.

 

You may want to google "low blood sugar diet" or "hypoglycemia diet" to find ideas for meals that are high in protein and low in sugar. The Paleo diet may be something else to look into. Do you like fish? That's another great food to eat during withdrawal. It's good brain food. 

 

17 hours ago, Csilover said:

My doc also isn’t plan on getting me ativan for months and months so I’m gonna need to switch doctors 

 

For doctors that are knowledgeable about withdrawal, please see:

 

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

Mad in America - Provider Directory

 

You may want to consider a 10% reduction.  Since you're taking a total of 1 mg Ativan daily, 10% would be a 0.1 mg reduction. Since you wish to only reduce the morning dose, you would take 0.4 mg in the morning and 0.5 mg in the evening. 

 

I had posted some information about scales and liquids here in this post, but please if you have any questions. 

[Csilover]

@Shep I'm going to order a scale! I found the one that the woman is using on amazon. Do you think this is a good idea? do I order capsules to put the powder in?

[Csilover]

Could I use the weighted scale for my seroquel 200 mg as well so I can make sure they are accurate everytime? Should I order gel capsules as well?

@brassmonkey @Shep

[Csilover]

Also is there a certain type or brand of gelatin capsules that is better?

[brassmonkey]

The scale many of us use is the Gemini-20 and is available on Amazon at a reasonable price.  There are many renamed versions also available you just need to be sure that it can measure to 0.001g or 1 milligram. As for the gel caps, they are all pretty much the same, I just went with the best price for a bag of 1000 size "0".  They are frequently listed on the same page as the scales.  Most gel caps are animal based but there are vegetarian and vegan ones available if that is a problem. Amazon carries them also.

 

If you are taking full tablets of the Seroquel then there is no need to weigh them. There is always a little variation in the weight of the whole pills, but it isn't enough to affect the dose strength at the 200mgai level.  Once you start tapering the Seroquel we will need to calculate the average weight of the tablets to determine the starting dose of the taper, but from then on you would be taking less than a full tablet so the actual weight won't matter.

 

I was reading through your thread and noticed that you are breaking the the Seroguel tablets into pieces. Using the scales when you get them to make sure the pieces are the same weight would be a good idea.  It will help even things out.

 

Even though anhedonia and emotional blunting are very common symptoms they can be very frightening, especially for someone who is quite passionate. The loss of self can be very upsetting. These symptoms tend to come in waves and windows hitting and then clearing up, only to hit again. This is a very common pattern and also applies to creativity, visualization and the like. But it does get better and things normalize.  In many cases anhedonia is actually a good thing.  While we are going through stabilization and WD our emotions can run riot and easily get out of control.  Anhedonia is natures way of protecting us from these highly emotional states. I always found that I would rather feel nothing and be calm than to be overwrought with emotions and frantic. Being over emotional takes a huge amount of energy and is quite taxing on the body, a body that needs all the peace it can get while in ADWD.

 

When you get a chance, do a site search on AAF.  It is a technique for building acceptance and many of our members have found it quite helpful.  Trying to microfocus on symptoms, while necessary to a point for record keeping and analysis, is also quite draining. Healing isn't going to happen over night,but will happen fairly quickly if we let it. You are doing a very many things right and its great that you are working closely with us, working on trying to relax will really help in the long run.

 

Let me know when your scales arrive and we will talk you through how to use them for a successful taper.

Edited June 1, 2020 by brassmonkey