Mutfael: try to recover

[Mutfael]

Hello all .. I do not speak English so I will write and do the translation and paste the conversation here so that you may understand my words ... My story began exactly 15 years ago, I don’t know exactly whether it was a sudden fear or of my father’s death I don’t know but I was very worried and went to the psychiatrist  He gave me a prescription for a variety of medicines, but I settled on Seroxat with a dose of 20 mg per day, then a year ago, I replaced Seroxat with Cipralex, a dose of 15 mg, and now I want to get rid of it because of lethargy, laziness and lack of sexual desire completely, so I started a week ago with a dose of 10 mg Cipralex and now I suffer from depression and sad feelings, by God  Success

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm sorry you are dealing with the difficulty of getting off of Cipralex.  It is likely that you reduced the amount by too much.  We suggest a very slow and gradual taper, no more than 10% of the current dose.  So that would be from 15 mg to 13.5 mg for the first taper. 

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

First of all, can you please give us specific information about your drug history?  Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called windows and waves.

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Here is specific information about tapering off Cipralex, which is also called Lexapro, or escitalopram.  

 

Tapering off Cipralex/Lexapro

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 3 that many of us find helpful are magnesium, omega-3, and melatonin. Here are the links for info about those. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

Melatonin

 

My question to you is, do you feel that you can live with the depression and sad feelings?  These feelings are a very typical symptoms when trying to taper off these drugs, they are temporary, and they will eventually go away.  Are you having any other symptoms?  How is your sleep?  

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and mull it over, and we will take it from there. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and take heart.  We in this forum have been through this, and we understand first hand the pain and discomfort you are going through.  Please know that the brain is amazing in it's healing abilities.  It takes time, but healing can and will happen. 

 

[Mutfael]

Sorry..I don't speak English, I just translate

My father passed away a year before the illness in 2004 and I was affected a lot, but I don't know if what happened to me was because of my father's death or from what?
In 2005 I had just a panic attack, no depression, no social phobia, no anxiety, just a panic attack, and after that I have been taking medication since then.
2005-2006 Efexor 75mg
2006-2007 Tryptizole 25mg
2008-2019 Seroxat 20mg
2020-2021 Cipralex 15mg
Diagnosis: Anxiety, panic attacks, depression ... alienation from reality and depersonalization
Side effects During the sick years,
 lethargy and a lot of sleep up to 12 hours a day, and I woke up in constant lethargy.
 Frequent setbacks, sweating, complete lack of sexual desire,
personality change and phobia (I was not surprised). Phobia before medication) !! And I feel that I live in
a dream, a quarrel with friends, disharmony and fear of meeting
stomach pains and heartburn.
I started dropping from March 5, 2021 to 10 mg of Cipralex
for the past few days after the drop, I felt depressed, anxious, less focused and afraid. Are these withdrawal symptoms or is this the original disease?

[Mutfael]

And I do not forget that I suffer from a lack of self-confidence

[Mutfael]

Thank you, thank you. I will write the information

[Mutfael]

Currently, after the start of the decrease, I felt depression, anxiety and lack of self-confidence. As for sleep, sleep lasts for hours at a rate of 12 hours a day, yet I feel sluggish throughout the day.

[getofflex]

@Mutfaelsaid "for the past few days after the drop, I felt depressed, anxious, less focused and afraid. Are these withdrawal symptoms or is this the original disease?"

 

It could very well be the withdrawal.  It is normal to feel some uncomfortable effects when we taper off these drugs.  However, it looks like you reduced your dose from 15 to 10 mg.  That is a 50% decrease.  We suggest a taper of no more than 10%.  Are you symptoms tolerable?  Its good you are able to sleep.  

 

Please keep your questions about your situation in this thread.  That way it is all in one place, and we can help you better.  Thank you.  I hope you feel better soon.  

Edited March 19, 2021 by getofflex

[Mutfael]

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart..I will collect questions on this topic ... My question is why don't the members' signatures appear for me at the bottom of the posts?  Even my signature, I cannot see it. What is the reason? Thank you

[Mutfael]

I have a lot of questions in the coming days.  I've been taking medication since 2005 and didn't know what happens when my dose drops is withdrawal.  I thought that this disease had returned to me .. I thank you for your awareness and thank you for your keenness on the patients' understanding of this issue.

[Mutfael]

Does decreasing cause stomach pain and inflammation?

Does it cause inactivity?

[getofflex]

Click on your name in the upper right hand corner of the screen.  Choose account settings.  Click on signatures, then click on view signatures toggle switch on top.  That should take care of it. 

 

Withdrawal can cause so many different symptoms, and it can be different for each person.  Also, symptoms can come and go for the same person.  For example, in early withdrawal I felt a tingling and itching sensation all over my body, and now I don't.  

 

These drugs and withdrawal can affect the stomach.  You may want to see your doctor to determine if there could be something else going on there.  

 

Digestive Problems

Physiology and Anatomy of the Digestive System

 

By inactivity, do you mean tiredness and fatigue?  Yes, withdrawal can and often does cause that, too.  I've experienced this throughout my own withdrawal journey.  In my case, it is often due to insufficient sleep. 

 

mental fatigue

Withdrawal Syndrome vs. Adrenal Fatigue

 

Keep up the good work.  I believe you are going to be OK.  

Edited March 19, 2021 by getofflex

[Mutfael]

Thank you getofflex, the signature has been added .. Regarding lethargy, yes, I mean fatigue and exhaustion, as I get tired and sleepy at sunset, and then it fades after two hours ...

[Mutfael]

I have an important question and I hope to answer it .. My question is why there are few subjects in the recovered section?  I searched for topics and found them to be few, as it reflects an unfavorable feeling to me !!  Does this mean that very few of the recovered are the ones who got rid of the medicines and there is a lot that has relapsed and returned to taking the medicines?  I hope my question is understandable to you. Thank you

[BooBoo19]

Hello @Mutfael

 

I believe that there are few in the recovered/success stories as people get on with their lives and never want to look back.  I have promised myself should I survive this (dramatic I know) I will write my success story to help people like us as they really help us when we are struggling.

[Mutfael]

Thank you, Booboo .. Actually, I noticed that the recovered are very few compared to the rest, and this is unfortunate and calls for frustration .. I hope that our theory is correct, contrary to what the deceitful doctors say, but when I found that the recovered are few, I felt that we are walking in the dark and there is no assurance that the light is coming in  The end of the tunnel!

[Mutfael]

Currently I have my window today, yesterday, praise be to God

[Mutfael]

Today a feeling of depression

[getofflex]

@mutfael it sounds like you are having windows and waves, typical of withdrawal from psych drugs.  You mention few subjects in the recovered section. Have you read any of the success stories?  Many people have been able to get off the psych meds and recover.  The thing is it takes a lot of determination and endurance.  But it can be done!  

 

SA Success Stories

[Mutfael]

Topic title:  I want to go back to the previous dose .. Please help

 

Hello .. I started to decrease from Sebralx for a month ago from now it was a direct decline where it was 15 milligrash directly to 10 mg and I think 5 tissues are very large. So I try to return to the previous dose or less than 12.5 so what I'm afraid of the symptoms of your fees? Did you return to previous frequencies and how it is. Please make and thank you

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with Intro

[Mutfael]

Please do so as that English is not my native language

[ChessieCat]

Did you reduce your Cipralex from 15mg to 10mg?  That is a 33% reduction.  SA recommends reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose with a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

A 10% reduction would be to 13.5mg.  If it was 1 month ago that you reduced to 10mg taking a little bit more, for example 1mg extra, might be enough.  So instead of taking 10mg take 11mg.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full strength in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Google translation:

 

هل قمت بتخفيض ليكسابرو من ١٥ ملغ إلى ١٠ ملغ؟ هذا هو تخفيض بنسبة 33٪. توصي SA بتخفيض ما لا يزيد عن 10 ٪ من الجرعة الحالية مع الانتظار لمدة 4 أسابيع للسماح للدماغ بالتكيف مع عدم الحصول على نفس القدر من الدواء. سيكون التخفيض بنسبة 10٪ إلى 13.5 مجم. إذا كنت قد خفضت إلى 10 ملغ قبل شهر واحد ، فقد يكون ذلك كافيًا ، على سبيل المثال 1 ملغ إضافي. لذا بدلًا من تناول 10 ملغ ، تناول 11 ملغ تستغرق الجرعة حوالي 4 أيام للوصول إلى قوتها الكاملة في الدم ووقتًا أطول قليلاً حتى يتم تسجيلها في الدماغ.

 

hal qumt bitkhfyd liksabru min 15 muligh 'iilaa 10 mlgh? hadha hu takhfid binisbat 33%. tusi SA bitakhfid ma la yazid ean 10 % min aljireat alhaliat mae alaintizar limudat 4 'asabie lilsamah lildimagh bialtakayf mae edm alhusul ealaa nfs alqadr min aldawa'. sayakun altakhfid binisbat 10% 'iilaa 13.5 mujamm. 'iidha **** qad khafidat 'iilaa 10 muligh qabl shahr wahid , faqad yakun dhalik kafyana , ealaa sabil almithal 1 muligh 'iidafi. lidha bdlana min tanawul 10 miligh , tanawul 11 milaghin tastaghriq aljireat hwaly 4 'ayam lilwusul 'iilaa quatuha alkamilat fi aldam wwqtana 'atwal qlylaan hataa yatima tasjiluha fi aldamagh.

[Mutfael]

عزيزي هل تتكلم العربية ؟

 

Translation from https://translation2.paralink.com/Arabic-English-Translation/

 

Honey, do you speak Arabic?

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by ChessieCat
added translation

[ChessieCat]

34 minutes ago, Mutfael said:

عزيزي هل تتكلم العربية ؟

 

No. I do not speak Arabic.  I used an online translator.

 

Translation from https://translation2.paralink.com/English-Arabic-Translation/

 

لا، أنا لا أتحدث العربية.  لقد استخدمت مترجماً على الإنترنت

 

[Mutfael]

شكرا لك عزيزي

[ChessieCat]

Please add the English like I added the Arabic.  It saves time.  Thank you.

 

This translator seems to work well:

 

https://translation2.paralink.com/Arabic-English-Translation/

[Mutfael]

On 4/9/2021 at 6:54 AM, ChessieCat said:

Did you reduce your Cipralex from 15mg to 10mg?  That is a 33% reduction.  SA recommends reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose with a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

A 10% reduction would be to 13.5mg.  If it was 1 month ago that you reduced to 10mg taking a little bit more, for example 1mg extra, might be enough.  So instead of taking 10mg take 11mg.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full strength in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Google translation:

 

هل قمت بتخفيض ليكسابرو من ١٥ ملغ إلى ١٠ ملغ؟ هذا هو تخفيض بنسبة 33٪. توصي SA بتخفيض ما لا يزيد عن 10 ٪ من الجرعة الحالية مع الانتظار لمدة 4 أسابيع للسماح للدماغ بالتكيف مع عدم الحصول على نفس القدر من الدواء. سيكون التخفيض بنسبة 10٪ إلى 13.5 مجم. إذا كنت قد خفضت إلى 10 ملغ قبل شهر واحد ، فقد يكون ذلك كافيًا ، على سبيل المثال 1 ملغ إضافي. لذا بدلًا من تناول 10 ملغ ، تناول 11 ملغ تستغرق الجرعة حوالي 4 أيام للوصول إلى قوتها الكاملة في الدم ووقتًا أطول قليلاً حتى يتم تسجيلها في الدماغ.

 

hal qumt bitkhfyd liksabru min 15 muligh 'iilaa 10 mlgh? hadha hu takhfid binisbat 33%. tusi SA bitakhfid ma la yazid ean 10 % min aljireat alhaliat mae alaintizar limudat 4 'asabie lilsamah lildimagh bialtakayf mae edm alhusul ealaa nfs alqadr min aldawa'. sayakun altakhfid binisbat 10% 'iilaa 13.5 mujamm. 'iidha **** qad khafidat 'iilaa 10 muligh qabl shahr wahid , faqad yakun dhalik kafyana , ealaa sabil almithal 1 muligh 'iidafi. lidha bdlana min tanawul 10 miligh , tanawul 11 milaghin tastaghriq aljireat hwaly 4 'ayam lilwusul 'iilaa quatuha alkamilat fi aldam wwqtana 'atwal qlylaan hataa yatima tasjiluha fi aldamagh.

My dear, I tried to translate what you said, but unfortunately I did not understand. I hope you will repeat the explanation .. How can I return to the 12.5 mg dose of Cipralex

[Mutfael]

As I could not go down from 15 mg to 10 mg as I wake up from sleep and I have distress, depression and anxiety, then it begins to diminish and fade a little, but in general I cannot stand my day !!

[ChessieCat]

What dose are you taking now?

 

What dose are the tablets that you are taking?

 

Post #1 of this topic has information about how to get the dose you need:

 

tips-for-tapering-off-escitalopram-lexapro

 

You can make your own liquid from tablets but you will need to make a saline (salt) solution like this:

 

On 5/27/2011 at 12:16 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Use a homemade isotonic saline solution (9% salt in water) which is made by dissolving 9 grams of table salt in 100mL of water. This mixture will last for a month or so in the refrigerator if you haven't added the drug to it.  Once the drug is added it will keep for about a week.

See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

 

[Mutfael]

45 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

What dose are you taking now?

 

What dose are the tablets that you are taking?

 

Post #1 of this topic has information about how to get the dose you need:

 

tips-for-tapering-off-escitalopram-lexapro

 

You can make your own liquid from tablets but you will need to make a saline (salt) solution like this:

 

 

I am currently taking 10 mg of Cipralex, it decreased about a month ago, I just returned to a dose of 12.5 mg by dividing the pills. I want to ask you what is the saline solution. Is not the normal water we drink enough?

[ChessieCat]

From the Tips for tapering escitalopram topic:

 

On 5/27/2011 at 12:16 PM, Altostrata said:

It is sparingly soluble in water, see http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01175

 

The tablet will dissolve better in a saline solution which is salt water.  You can use table salt.

 

Brassmonkey explained how much salt to use:

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by ChessieCat

[Mutfael]

On 12‏/4‏/2021 at 04:19, ChessieCat said:

من نصائح حول موضوع escitalopram:

 

 

يذوب القرص بشكل أفضل في محلول ملحي وهو ماء مالح. يمكنك استخدام ملح الطعام.

 

أوضح Brassmonkey مقدار الملح الذي يجب استخدامه:

 

 

I have a question, do psychiatric drugs cause social phobia and depression in healthy people?

[Mutfael]

مرحباً بالجميع .. لدي سؤال ، أرجو أن تتفهموني .. هل فقدان 2.5 ملغ من سبرالكس يسبب أعراض الانسحاب أم لا؟ شكرا لك

 

 

Hi everyone .. I have a question, please understand me .. Does losing 2.5 mg of Cipralex cause withdrawal symptoms or not? Thank you

Edited May 6, 2021 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Muftael.  Please post in English.  You can use Google translate.

 

2.5mg Cipralex is not a small dose, and tapering by this amount definitely can have a big effect on you.   If you reduced 2.5mg from 12.5mg, that is a reduction of 20%, which is twice as much as what we recommend, which is to taper by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  So the brief answer to your question is yes, that could very easily cause withdrawal symptoms.  

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

I would hold at your current dose of 12.5mg for at least 3 months to allow your system to stabilize.  Once you've stabilized, you can begin to taper again, but only by 10% or less of current dose every 4 weeks.  This link is specifically about tapering Cipralex, including how to get the non-standard doses you'll need for your taper.

 

 

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

So that you have a better idea of what you're experiencing, here are some links about withdrawal and the healing process.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Gridley

[Mutfael]

Thank you, dear, I did not pay attention to the translation, the translation has been affixed and I thought it was English, I am sorry ... As for reducing or decreasing to 10%, it is very difficult. I tried with a syringe and it did not work, then I broke the pills to 2.5 milligrams and I also want to break the pills  2.5 to 1.25 mg What do you think?

[Mutfael]

Welcome..

 

I have questions and I hope you will answer them.. The first question is that I am a heavy smoker and I cannot quit smoking.  I tried over and over again to no avail, because I am tired, depressed and stressed.  Do I continue to smoke until the end of my suffering?  The second question: Do psychotropic drugs cause social phobia?  Since I didn't have a phobia at first, the third question is do psychiatric medications cause depersonalization?

 

 Thank you

[Shep]

@MutfaelPlease note I merged several of your introduction threads into your first Introduction topic. Please continue to use this one thread to ask questions about your taper and your symptoms. That way all of your information is here in one place. 

 

13 hours ago, Mutfael said:

The first question is that I am a heavy smoker and I cannot quit smoking.  I tried over and over again to no avail, because I am tired, depressed and stressed.  Do I continue to smoke until the end of my suffering?

 

It's best to smoke the same number of cigarettes every day. This will keep the amount of nicotine consistent. Since nicotine is also a drug, it's important to be consistent with the amount of nicotine you take every day. Once you are stablized, you may want to slowly reduce your cigarettes, tapering the same way you taper a psychiatric drug. You will need to decide if you want to do this while also tapering a psychiatric drug or after you are completely off the psychiatric drug. 

 

13 hours ago, Mutfael said:

The second question: Do psychotropic drugs cause social phobia?  Since I didn't have a phobia at first, the third question is do psychiatric medications cause depersonalization?

 

Yes to both of these questions. Many of us have depersonalization and difficulty in social situations during withdrawal. Please see:

 

Derealization or Depersonalization (DR and DP)

 

Simply being sick, regardless of the reason, makes it difficult to be around people. But this will pass. Once you begin the healing process, you will feel more like being around people. It gets better.