Josef: Hello World, I need help.

[Shep]

18 hours ago, Josef said:

half life meds and withdrawal

splitting the dose? Based on what evidence? what do you think of the link I've shared?

 

It's definitely good information and a good resource. However, this part isn't entirely correct:

 

Quote

 

A drug's half-life matters because:

 

• a short half-life usually means more withdrawal problems
• a long half-life usually means fewer withdrawal problems.

 

 

 

Some people have very difficult withdrawal symptoms even with the longer half-life drugs. It's not just about the half-life, but also how much your brain and body have adapted to the drug. The taper speed is important. Also, you can split the dose to reduce interdose withdrawal due to a short half-life. 

 

Switching to another drug in order to go on a drug with a longer half-life will mean going into withdrawal from your current drug. The new drug may or may not mask the withdrawal from the Amisulpride. So it's a risk. 

 

Also, a crossover is usually done gradually but much less gradually than with a regular taper, meaning you'll abruptly reduce the Amisulpride as you move onto the new drug. I'm not sure how to advise this.

 

Instead of going on another drug, it may be better to micro-taper the Amisulpride slowly enough that you adapt to the change in mechanism (going from a drug that reduces dopamine to the lower doses that facilitate dopamine release). AND also reduce your cigarette consumption in order to reduce the dopamine increase caused by nicotine. 

 

I would go very, very slowly, possibly 3% or less a month off the previous month's dose, especially when you get down to the 200 mg range and / or you start to feel in any way energized by the drug. You could also slowly move the drug to earlier in the day to prevent insomnia, if you do feel the drug is becoming stimulating (when moving a drug, please note we recommend only moving it an hour a day since gradual moves are less disruptive to your nervous system, so if you take it at 9 PM, take it at 8 PM the next day, 7 PM the following day, etc.). 

 

 

[Josef]

Ok,

I know that my dopamine receptors has increased permanently due to long term of use with high doses.

That's what happens when the med block dopamine receptors, the brain is a very plastic organ and because of that block, the brain is creating more receptors. in other words- I'm much more sensitive to psychosis than when i was before taking amisulpride. Therefore I dont know if i could manage the low doses and the dopamine release. So its also very risky dont you think?

 

3% is very tiny dose, i wont finish this withdrawal. it will take six years or something similar

[Josef]

And if I'm dividing the dose, i will take it day and night,

so moving the hours becomes irrelevant isn't it?

[Altostrata]

9 hours ago, Josef said:

That's what happens when the med block dopamine receptors, the brain is a very plastic organ and because of that block, the brain is creating more receptors. in other words- I'm much more sensitive to psychosis than when i was before taking amisulpride. Therefore I dont know if i could manage the low doses and the dopamine release. So its also very risky dont you think?

 

Dopamine supersensitivity psychosis is fairly well known in antipsychotic withdrawal. While it's an entirely different mechanism, careful tapering enables gradual adaptation to the new drug level. I would expect the same with amulsipride.

 

We can't predict the future of your taper, Josef. Going cautiously is probably your best course. As you decrease the dosage, you will have to listen carefully to your body to detect shifts that might signal a problem is coming, and stop reducing there. You are the best judge of your reactions.

[Josef]

supersensitivity, which by itself sounds like a mess, and on top of that the dopamine release.. I'm afraid this will be too much

[Josef]

I am willing to try my best, with cautious, slow taper, self monitoring and self control ect..

 

I just think to myself that it will be way over the top when the dopamine release will start to take effect on me.  withdrawal is sensitive issue as it is, also the shorter half life- as adviced, to split dosage to two so it cancels out the option to "play" with the hour I'm taking the med, if for example I'll have insomnia.

So there's serious stuff to consider.....

[Shep]

On 6/6/2021 at 4:45 AM, Josef said:

I just think to myself that it will be way over the top when the dopamine release will start to take effect on me. 

 

Why "over the top"? You've been increasing your dopamine all along the way by increasing the number of cigarettes you take. Reducing nicotine will likely help. 

 

Please don't spiral into catastrophic thinking. These threads can help:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Work on cigarette reduction, a clean diet, exercise, some mindfulness exercises or other non-drug coping strategies and set yourself up for success. 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

 

On 6/6/2021 at 4:45 AM, Josef said:

also the shorter half life- as adviced, to split dosage to two so it cancels out the option to "play" with the hour I'm taking the med, if for example I'll have insomnia.

 

If the lower dose are more stimulating for you (and we don't know that for sure), than you may find you feel better as the drug wears off in the evening. If the drug wearing off is an improvement, than you won't need to split the dose. You'll have the wait to see if the interdose withdrawal is better or worse than any side effects (such as being stimulating). 

 

Since this is a drug that's not common in many countries, you may want to reach out to the folks at Soteria Israel to see if they have any resources or information regarding this drug or doctors in your area that are informed on withdrawal. This is an article about this group: 

 

Soteria Israel: A Vision from the Past is a Blueprint for the Future

[Josef]

 

[Josef]

Thank you Shep for your supportive reply and relevant tips, as we say in hebrew "first reach the bridge, then decide what to do"

 

I was over concerned when i wrote my latest comment that I'll get caught in a future situation dealing with insomnia, restlessness, and agitation, which occurred in my last wd in 2018. I want to believe that it will be different this time with the tools you're giving me.

 

I started to reduce the nicotine, I'm eating healthy, taking vitamins, exercise 3 days a week and just finished a two month meditation course (next up- mindfulness course).

 

I called soteria house, they don't want to share any information or give any consultation unless I'm willing to pay them for their service.

 

On another subject, I don't know if my pill is ok to prepare it for a suspension, it's not the original solian, it's a generic med of amisulpride made in israel, it's called Pride 100 and the company name is UniPharm. 

What I need to check in order to find out if its suitable for oral suspension?

 

thanks for the links, will sure read them as soon as i get home.

 

 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Josef said:

Thank you Shep for your supportive reply and relevant tips, as we say in hebrew "first reach the bridge, then decide what to do"

 

Exactly. Great saying!

 

22 hours ago, Josef said:

I was over concerned when i wrote my latest comment that I'll get caught in a future situation dealing with insomnia, restlessness, and agitation, which occurred in my last wd in 2018. I want to believe that it will be different this time with the tools you're giving me.

 

I really believe it will be different. The symptoms you're describing - insomnia, restlessness, and agitation - are withdrawal symptoms from a rapid taper. That doesn't sound like dopamine supersensitivity issues, such as hallucinations and psychosis. 

 

22 hours ago, Josef said:

I started to reduce the nicotine, I'm eating healthy, taking vitamins, exercise 3 days a week and just finished a two month meditation course (next up- mindfulness course).

 

This is great, Josef. You're setting yourself up for the best outcome. 

 

If you're interested, there's some really great information available for free online for mindfulness. I found this one helpful because it's an 8-week program with tons of resources to read and videos to watch: 

 

Online Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)

 

22 hours ago, Josef said:

I called soteria house, they don't want to share any information or give any consultation unless I'm willing to pay them for their service.

 

Thanks for letting us know. That's really unfortunate, but that seems to be the pattern with the alternative treatments - very limited supply and only for those who can pay. 

 

22 hours ago, Josef said:

On another subject, I don't know if my pill is ok to prepare it for a suspension, it's not the original solian, it's a generic med of amisulpride made in israel, it's called Pride 100 and the company name is UniPharm. 

What I need to check in order to find out if its suitable for oral suspension?

 

Because this isn't a common drug seen here, we don't have a lot of information, so please reach out to the local pharmacist in your area to get specifics for a liquid taper. Let us know what you find out and it will add information to the site. There are agents such as propylene glycol that can be added to drugs to make them more soluable in water, and also, some drugs are soluble in a small amount of ethanol, such as Vodka, but it's best to find out as much as you can about your drug first. 

 

Or you may want to opt for a scale and dry taper. Here are more resources for using a scale and making a liquid: 

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

 

 

[Josef]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

I really believe it will be different. The symptoms you're describing - insomnia, restlessness, and agitation - are withdrawal symptoms from a rapid taper. That doesn't sound like dopamine supersensitivity issues, such as hallucinations and psychosis. 

Well.. since you've brought it up, here's the list of symptoms i had during the last withdrawal:

 

Mental symptoms:

- powerful delusional/intrusive thoughts

- paranoia

- anxiety

- panic attacks

- Acceleration in thoughts

- emotional overflow

- Connects physical motions to random thoughts)

 

Physical symptoms:

- painful heart palpitations

- intense Brain palpitations and brain tension

- insomnia that led to poor judgment

- restlessness

- Sweating in my sleep, my clothes were stained with white salt stains every morning

 

Doctors defined me as schizoeffective, based on a depression episode that happened in 2012 (which is not why i was hospitilized), and false thoughts, which i believe emerged due to daily anxiety. I had them before, but were mild.

 

Today i know exactly why all this happened, it was related to a case of violence at work, a relationship with a girl that has ended, and a re-injury from my period of service in the army- all in less than two weeks.

 

4 hours ago, Shep said:

Online Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)

I'm on it! 

 

4 hours ago, Shep said:

please reach out to the local pharmacist in your area to get specifics for a liquid taper.

 

Or you may want to opt for a scale and dry taper. Here are more resources for using a scale and making a liquid: 

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

I just wrote to the manufacturer about it. 

Let see what info i get from them.

I'll bring this up with the psychiatrist as well

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Josef said:

Doctors defined me as schizoeffective, based on a depression episode that happened in 2012 (which is not why i was hospitilized), and false thoughts, which i believe emerged due to daily anxiety. I had them before, but were mild.

 

Today i know exactly why all this happened, it was related to a case of violence at work, a relationship with a girl that has ended, and a re-injury from my period of service in the army- all in less than two weeks.

 

Thanks for providing more information. All of those sounds like valid reasons for someone to be distressed. We're really not about labels here and it sounds like you're already letting go of that "schizoaffective" label by naming the sources of your distress. That's a lot to go through in less than two weeks! That doesn't make you "mentally ill," just a thoughtful human being going through a lot. 

 

If you feel you've stabilized enough and are ready to start your taper, here is more information about doing so. 

 

I asked the other staff about Amisulpride and Brassmonkey provided information about solubility and Altostrata had some good advice about using Ora-Plus as a suspending vehicle for making your own liquid. 

 

As you can see from the Amisulpride datasheet, this drug is not soluble in water and only moderately soluble in ethanol. But if you use a suspending vehicle like Ora-Plus, you'll be able to make a liquid suspension by crushing up the tablet and adding the Ora-Plus. 

 

The most important thing is the rate of the taper, and due to your previous experience, a micro-taper of 5% or less will likely be the best path for you. Please note that it's 5% or less off of the amount of the previous month's dose (not the originally prescribed dose). 

 

You may want to go with the Brassmonkey Slide for your taper:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

The Brassmonkey Slide has 4 weekly reductions followed by at least a two week hold. So if you wanted to do a 5% reduction, you would reduce 1.25% each week for 4 weeks and then hold at least two week. 

 

The fact that you were able to stabilize after having so many symptoms shows how resilient your nervous system is. Go slow and keep working on those non-drug coping strategies and you'll be okay. Distraction is another way of getting through symptoms. The art of distraction means when symptoms are strong, go for a walk in nature, listen to some favorite music, or play a video game. Whatever you need to do to distract the anxious mind until the wave passes. 

 

[Josef]

Hey Shep, how are you?

I don't have Ora plus in my country.

In online purchase it costs 60$ USD for 473 mL (one bottle).

So If im making 1:1 ratio suspension, the bottle will last for 4.5 days. So unfortunately I don't have this amount of money.

Even let's say i do 0.5:1 ratio- it's still very expensive..

Any other suggestions?

[Josef]

Update: down to 250mg.

[Shep]

17 hours ago, Josef said:

Update: down to 250mg.

 

Please go back up to 300 mg. Reducing by 50 mg is nearly a 17% reduction. Please see:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

You were able to stabilize by updosing after doing a rapid taper, but there's no guarantee that will continue to happen. The more you traumatize your nervous system with abrupt reductions, the more difficult the next taper may be. This is known as "kindling" the nervous system. It's trauma to the nervous system until your nervous system loses resiliency. 

 

 

20 hours ago, Josef said:

Any other suggestions?

 

Check out the information in the scale thread:

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

Here is a scale that many members have had great success with:

 

GEMINI-20 Portable Precision Digital Milligram Scale 20g x 0.001g (Silver), GEMINI-20

 

The Gemini-20 is also available on e-Bay and other online vendors, so you may be able to find a better price for one that's available in your country. 

 

Here is a video on how to use a scale:

 

Scale use video (6.5 minutes)

 

I would updose back to the 300 mg and come up with a game plan for a slow taper before making any reductions. Set yourself up for success. 

[Josef]

Cutting the pill and using a scale is not that precise as a suspension.. right?

 

I really appreciate your detailed information about CNS, I wouldn't do a 17% reduction in lower doses.

No worries for now please.

[Shep]

8 minutes ago, Josef said:

Cutting the pill and using a scale is not precise as the suspension.. right?

 

You'll crush the pill before weighing it. Some people use a mortar and pestle and others find that they can crush the pill with the back of a spoon or improvise in other ways if the cost of a mortar and pestle is a barrier. 

 

It's precise to use a scale. There are thousands of people on the various withdrawal forums who've used a scale to taper over the years that withdrawal forums have existed. You'll be fine with a scale. 

[Josef]

Thanks Shep, really helpful guide

I currently read about windows and waves.

very serious and important topics!

 

I bought the Gemini-20 scale on amazon, it will arrive exactly on my birthday .

 

So, after I'm crushing and scaling my daily dose what i should do with the powder? Eat it? Mix it in water, then drink it?

 

I will crush 5 pills at a time, sum their weight and store them like the girl in the video did.

I just wonder if this procces will reduce or change some of the effectiveness of the med..?

[Josef]

Also, came to my attention from some acquaintances and from a video of Will Hall that after you stop taking antipsychotic you don't exactly go back to being the way you used to be, can anyone expand on that?

[Shep]

On 6/11/2021 at 2:48 PM, Josef said:

I bought the Gemini-20 scale on amazon, it will arrive exactly on my birthday .

 

So, after I'm crushing and scaling my daily dose what i should do with the powder? Eat it? Mix it in water, then drink it?

 

 

Happy Birthday, Josef. A scale is a great gift to give yourself. 

 

Once you crush and weigh your daily dose, you can store the powder in a capsule. You can buy empty capsules online. As noted in the thread on using a scale: 

 

On 4/10/2012 at 8:12 PM, Altostrata said:

Just wanted to note: Get LARGE gelatin capsules (size 000 or 00), they will be easier for you to handle and to fill. You only need to fill them part way.

 

On 6/11/2021 at 2:48 PM, Josef said:

I just wonder if this procces will reduce or change some of the effectiveness of the med..?

 

No, it won't change the effectiveness of the drug. It's the same drug, you're just reducing the dose a bit. 

 

On 6/13/2021 at 4:05 AM, Josef said:

Also, came to my attention from some acquaintances and from a video of Will Hall that after you stop taking antipsychotic you don't exactly go back to being the way you used to be, can anyone expand on that?

 

Without knowing what was in the video, it would be impossible to say. Many people have a change in worldview after this experience, as we feel betrayed by medical doctors, people we've been conditioned to trust. And some people are dealing with the trauma of forced "treatment," which can have a long-lasting impact.  But we see people heal from these drugs all the time. 

 

Success stories: Recovery from psychiatric drug withdrawal

[Josef]

Thank you shep for your congrats..

Fill the capsule with the powder is my best option?

Is drinking with water mixture will not be as effective?

 

I'm read a lot of success threads lately, I stumbled on thread which one who's on several meds for many years, also used amisulpride for 4 years on a low dose (150mg), and after he switched to Olanzapine he managed to Withdrawal in 10 months! (Latrogenesis is his username if I remember correctly)

Very inspirational, but also very tempting to be thinking on switching too if things will get out of hand.

 

Still on 250mg, everything seems normal for now, still do exercise, eating healthy foods, I'm also considering to start taking magnesium,any recommendations which dose to start with magnesium? 

[Josef]

My psychiatrist is willing to help me at all cost, but his advices are so bad sometimes..

I called Soteria again and they referred me to a psychiatrist who works for them, I asked my psychiatrist about him and it turns out they know each other, he said good things about him and that he is not enthusiastic about giving drugs to people so quickly. 

 

So I gave him a call and we've talked briefly on the phone, he said he's familiar with 10% reduction method, and that he had already helped people come off amisulpride and other drugs, he even mentioned Breggin and Whitaker as some point. His clinic is right next to where my parents live. Anyway It sounded too good to be true, until I heard the price... 300$ 😮, I thought it through for a couple of days and decided to make an appointment.

 

On another topic. It's been a week since my last (17%) reduction, I have a mild tension around my head for about 5-10 minutes but then it passes on, it happened twice and it's pretty marginal. Other than that I'm generally well.

 

Once the shipment of the Gemini scale arrives (between 12 of July and 02 of August.) I will make the next cut, 10% reduction from 250mg to 225mg.

I also bought on amazon 500 units of Gelatin capsules, size 00, and stainless steel Mortar and Pestle.

 

Have a lovely weekend you guys!

[Shep]

Thanks for the update, Josef. I'm glad you're doing so well and have decided to go the 10% reduction route going forward. Let us know how you get on with your new psychiatrist from Soteria. 

[Josef]

Certainly will.

I wanted to point out that although I am tall (1.87) and pretty much young(34yrs), I have a very, very, sensitive body.

and though prolactin levels had been a problem that i still didn't issued (when the time comes..), I wanted to talk with you about TD...

 

About 3 months ago I was starting to have involuntary movements in my sleep (twitches in my right hand), over those 3 months the situation has worsened.

Currently I have these jerks, involuntary movements, from time to time, it happends when I'm about to go asleep, or waking up from sleep due to those big movements (arms, legs, head, pelvis- but not all them art the same time.) When I'm getting up in the morning they're gone. I'm worry that it has something to do with TD.. should I be worried?

 

And if it's so, What can I do about it? Exercising more will help? Stretches before bed? taking vitamin E or manganese?

I know that TD symptoms may appear where you're getting close to the lower doses of the taper, which is clearly not where I'm at...

Thanks in advance you guys.. 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, Josef said:

About 3 months ago I was starting to have involuntary movements in my sleep (twitches in my right hand), over those 3 months the situation has worsened.

Currently I have these jerks, involuntary movements, from time to time, it happends when I'm about to go asleep, or waking up from sleep due to those big movements (arms, legs, head, pelvis- but not all them art the same time.) When I'm getting up in the morning they're gone. I'm worry that it has something to do with TD.. should I be worried?

 

I don't think you should be worried, Josef. TD generally hits during the daytime when you're awake and alert. From the article Science Direct - Tardive Dyskinesia:

 

Tardive dyskinesia (TD) is a syndrome of choreiform or athetoid abnormal involuntary movements that increase with emotional arousal, decrease with relaxation, and disappear during sleep.

 

A lot of people have involuntary muscle movements as a result of a destabilized nervous system due to withdrawal. 

 

Occasional neuromuscular symptoms: tics, twitches, fasciculations, spasms, cramps, restless legs

 

You may want to add a bit of magnesium and / or fish oil. We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

20 hours ago, Josef said:

About 3 months ago I was starting to have involuntary movements in my sleep (twitches in my right hand), over those 3 months the situation has worsened.

 

20 hours ago, Josef said:

 2019 Nov-400mg, 2020 April-350mg,

 

You write that these symptoms appeared "about 3 months ago." Do you recall if it was before or after the decrease from 400 mg to 350 mg? Do you recall the exact date in April that you made this reduction? 

[Josef]

Thank you Shep now I have some sort of relieve. I want to believe it will pass.

 

I'm taking omega 3 fish oil for a year and also vitamin D3. I will buy low dose of magnesium in the next few days. Maybe in a month or so I'll give Vitamin E a go too.

 

In Nov2020 I switched from Solian to a generic one called "Pride100", without any reductions, 400mg.

But a lot of side effects began from this day.

 

My reduction from 400mg to 350mg was in 10/04/2020. I'm assuming that the starting point of minor twitches in my right hand had started a few weeks before that 

 

I've read all of the links.

Cheers, Joseph.

 

 

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Josef said:

In Nov2020 I switched from Solian to a generic one called "Pride100", without any reductions, 400mg.

But a lot of side effects began from this day.

 

You may be sensitive to brand changes, which is common for folks going through withdrawal. 

 

Change in drug manufacturer or generic substituted for brand-name drug

 

If you find out you need to change to another brand in the future, you may want to crossover gradually to give your system time to adjust to the change. 

 

19 hours ago, Josef said:

I'm taking omega 3 fish oil for a year and also vitamin D3. I will buy low dose of magnesium in the next few days. Maybe in a month or so I'll give Vitamin E a go too.

 

I would be cautious against loading yourself up with so many supplements. Fish oil and magnesium do tend to be calming to the nervous system, which is why we recommend them, but vitamin D3 can be stimulating (see Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol).

 

Do you remember when you started taking the D3 supplement? 

 

More on supplements:

 

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

 

The simpler you can keep your drug and supplement routine, the better. By adding in supplements, you're adding in variables to the withdrawal equation, which can make it harder to tell if a drug reduction caused a problem or if it's from a change in supplement use. 

 

Try getting as much of your nutrition as you can by eating healthy and drinking plenty of water throughout your taper. 

[Josef]

 

 

4 hours ago, Shep said:

If you find out you need to change to another brand in the future, you may want to crossover gradually to give your system time to adjust to the change. 

Yeah, now you telling me , I had some of the worst anxiety when I changed to the other brand. The psychiatrist didn't say a word about being cautious with brand changes or anything, when I told him i had severe anxiety during the night he was slightly surprised and said he didn't know it can happend. (Another dumbass.)

 

4 hours ago, Shep said:

Do you remember when you started taking the D3 supplement? 

Yes, i started taking it in the exact time I started Omega 3 fish oil, a little more than a year ago.

 

Thanks for your tips.

I take D3 vitamin in its lowest dose, will adjust it day to day if things seems to be more energetic.

 

In hope that vitamin E or magnesium, with a combination of stretches and meditation music before bed will solve my hypnic jerks.

[Josef]

On 6/7/2021 at 2:00 PM, Shep said:

 

Why "over the top"? You've been increasing your dopamine all along the way by increasing the number of cigarettes you take. Reducing nicotine will likely help. 

 

Please don't spiral into catastrophic thinking. These threads can help:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

On 6/6/2021 at 1:50 AM, Altostrata said:

Dopamine supersensitivity psychosis is fairly well known in antipsychotic withdrawal. While it's an entirely different mechanism, careful tapering enables gradual adaptation to the new drug level. I would expect the same with amulsipride.

 

We can't predict the future of your taper, Josef. Going cautiously is probably your best course. As you decrease the dosage, you will have to listen carefully to your body to detect shifts that might signal a problem is coming, and stop reducing there. You are the best judge of your reactions.

Look, I think it's unwise to be more vaulnrable to psychosis than other candidates because of dopamine agonist mechanism in long term withdrawal, especially when psychosis is not something you can predict, as it sneaks in quite rapidly.

we dont know this for sure, but it's logical. more dopamine, more of a chance to get psychosis.

 

You told me I'm having catastrophic thoughts ect, but there are 0 cases that someone documented or stated he went through this successfully. 

Its just not getting us anywhere. if that's your method of helping people Im afraid it's not my place.

The only though i had after reading this was that you just wanted to find an opportunity to test me out without any facts or principles.

It's a dillema, so give me the second best option too, like from which AP drugs most people have weaned off from? those statistics sure would help me finding my path in one way or another. these are sort of questions to give answer to in forums like this. 

 

If i hit psychosis again, I know for sure that changes in doses or any gradual adaptation won't get me up and running in the process of continuing withdrawal, i prefer to preserve my will power as it is today.

 

I'll keep you two updated after my meeting with the new psych.

Cheers.

[Josef]

*please refer to this message and not the above

 

Look, I think it's unwise to be more vulnerable to psychosis than other candidates because of dopamine agonist mechanism in long term withdrawal, especially when psychosis is not something you can predict, as it sneaks in quite rapidly.

We don't know this, but it's logical. more dopamine, more of a chance to get psychosis.

 

You told me I'm having catastrophic thoughts ect, but there are 0 cases of someone documented or stated he went through this successfully on the net. I'm not saying there isn't, but this attitude is not getting us anywhere. if that's your method of helping people than I'm afraid it's not my place.

The only thought I had after reading this was that you just wanted to test me out without any facts or principles and give me a one way street advice.

It's a dilemma, so give me the second best option too, like from which AP drugs most people have weaned off from? those statistics sure will help me finding my path in one way or another.

these are sort of questions to give an answer to in forums as this. doctor's don't know better than you do. in fact I believe in the opposite.

 

 

If I hit psychosis again, changes in doses or any gradual adaptation won't get me up and running in the process of continuing and preserving withdrawal, and my will power as it is today. I'll keep you two updated after my meeting with the new psych.

Cheers.

[Altostrata]

Yes, people have successfully minimized or gone off drugs taken for psychosis, @Josef It has to be done very carefully and maybe more slowly than you want to. Reductions at high doses are easier than at lower doses -- quite often, you need to slow down at a low dosage level. We don't know where that is for you, but 10% reduction per month calculated on the last dosage is a good place to start.

 

On 6/22/2021 at 9:07 AM, Josef said:

If i hit psychosis again, I know for sure that changes in doses or any gradual adaptation won't get me up and running in the process of continuing withdrawal, i prefer to preserve my will power as it is today.

 

That is nonsense. You cannot will yourself through tapering, especially if the risk is a return of psychosis, for which you can be hospitalized against your will. Did you like what happened the last time you went off? 

 

If you hit psychosis, slight updoses can help, but that's a sign you'll have to reduce more cautiously from there.

 

You're welcome to do it your way, but don't continue to ask us for advice! We may tell you something different from what you want to hear. We don't want to spend time arguing about who's right, the staff has other things to do. We know very gradual tapering works to at least minimize drugs for psychosis.

[Josef]

Ok, Got it.  And yes, I wish to have your recommendations of course around here..

 

Anyway I wanted to update..

 

Today I've met with the new psychiatrist, he said that he had patients who came off solian, not in the 10% method, but lets say from 400 to 100 and then to zero. (I would never do that..)

He's not a big "believer" of the 10% method, he said the effectiveness of the drug will change undesirably due to unevenly spread and absorption in the body. 

 

He mentioned that when people build their life more, after like 10/15 years on medicine and after raising kids, or having a carrier, and all sort of stuff that's easier for them to come off..

I'm not going to wait for that to happend.

I'm sure he meant to say i must have stability in life before going on the lower doses, and i accept he's advice.

I want to leave the city and will love to live in a more quiet/less crowded place, I have to find a job at some point too.

 

anyway we've talked for an hour and a half, he suggested that if I'm struggling in lower doses it will be easier for me to switch to seroquel and then continue to withdrawal from there.

 

He also suggested that i might have ptsd..what was surprisingly ironic is that later on I met my psychotherapist, (we've seen each other for 3 months), and so she tells me today the same thing... that I probably have ptsd.

I was in shock, but it felt more reasonable than schizoeffective, when she explained why it's the case with me I felt some sort of relief. Of course we're still at the mids of the therapy, I do trust her.

 

 

anyway I received my scale today (also the other accessories), good night for now. Had a rough one.

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Josef said:

He's not a big "believer" of the 10% method, he said the effectiveness of the drug will change undesirably due to unevenly spread and absorption in the body. 

 

Few of them even know of the 10% method, much less believe in it. His explanation doesn't make sense.

 

However, if you want to to it his way, you can always take your questions to him.

[Josef]

Yeah i know, and Thanks, but i think I'll stick to 10%.

I've read a thread from Whitelily (that's her username), she had difficulties going below 200mg.

It is so very individual so i feel i need to be extra careful while tapering the 200mg range. brassmonkey method is the way to go.

[Josef]

Hi I wanted to ask about strange thing that has been happening to me lately.

It started at my parents' house about two weeks ago, I woke up suffocating while sleeping, and it repeated itself several times , today it happened again.

Is this related to the medicine I am taking? It's something common?

I will be happy to know if there's something to do about it.

[Josef]

Hey friends,
I wanted to apologize for deciding to "break my head" on the forum and blame you in my last post at some level.
I did not try to take you out as the bad guys and I'm sure you did not try to do anything to me on purpose.. actually you're doing a great job and I appreciate it very much...

 

The lack of information on the Internet is simply exhausting and depressing. These feelings in themselves has lead me to difficult thoughts.

 

I hope we can open a new page and I'm wholeheartedly sorry in hope we can put that behind.