Whatisthis: Being recommended to start new drugs, aripiprazol, escitalopram

[Whatisthis]

Hi

 

I'll start by telling that I never wanted to take psychiatric drugs. But when I was hospitalized for "major depression and dissociation" they put me on this tragic road.

After that life was never really life for me again.

 

I am currently taking quetiapine 50 mg at night, because my NS is so damaged I almost don't sleep naturally. This apparently lets me sleep from 3 to 6 hours most nights. I don´t know how I would withdraw from this as not sleeping is the one torture I (and anyone) cannot withstand.

 

The reason I'm writing now here, is I'm currently going to a psychiatrist (who works with Open Dialogue), he says I would be benefited by taking more drugs and does not acknowledge the adverse effects as being worrisome ("the people who get damaged are the ones on high doses for a long time"). My situation is so bad that he says they would reduce suffering and somehow allow me to do things to get well. But I can´t believe this, and I'm frightened and know that I'm probably stepping into conditions I nor my NS can take.

7/6/21 he gave me escitalopram 10 mg (to go up to 20) and aripiprazol 5 mg (to go up to 10) "switch the quetiapine for the aripiprazol". The first night I took this I vomited twice and did not sleep at all. I thought it was a mistake to just stop the quetiapine, told him and he said ok, it seems to help you sleep, we'll reduce it gradually (which is likely a month or less, as he's adviced before)

Next day took the escitalopram earlier to divide the hit on the stomach and soon as I took the rest, vomited again. He was unalarmed of course, said the system has to get used to it and told to take aripiprazol in the morning, and later the others. Yesterday hours after the morning, on the street felt the same sensation as I was gonna vomit, but tried to avoid it and walked. I felt burning heat in the chest and stomach and then waves of freezing cold in my head too. It passed. I didn't take the rest and don´t want to.

I don´t know what to do and how to tell him this is wrong and likely going to harm. I feel the more side effects I have to endure and then the effects I'll just turn into a complying thing "dealing" with all this, until I can´t take anymore, once again, but this time with a hardly functioning NS and already destroyed life experience.

 

I'd appreciate if you can give me an honest opinion about the danger of taking these drugs. And maybe a suggestion of something well articulated I can give him to read to maybe start seriously considering the inhuman experiences these substances put us through, not only in high doses.

 

Thank you for reading, it ended up quite long.

I hope you are finding some wellbeing and meaning, take care.

 

 

 

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm glad that you realize that these drugs are harmful to the nervous system.  While we are on them, they do make changes to it.  It sounds like you system really doesn't want and can't handle the escitalopram and the aripiprazole. I would suggest you refuse to take the escitalopram and the aripiprazole.  I would stay on the 50 mg of quetiapine each and every day, don't skip or vary your dose.  I would also avoid any other psychiatric drugs.  Unfortunately, most psychiatrists are very fast to push drugs.  Many, if not most, have been brainwashed by the drug manufacturers to use high amounts of medication, because the drug companies make lots of money on these drugs.  

 

On 6/11/2021 at 9:21 AM, Whatisthis said:

He was unalarmed of course, said the system has to get used to it and told to take aripiprazol in the morning, and later the others

I doubt the truth of this statement.  Sometimes, these drugs cause adverse reactions in people, and we suggest these people do not take the drugs in that case.  It sounds like this is what happened to you.  

 

On 6/11/2021 at 9:21 AM, Whatisthis said:

I don´t know what to do and how to tell him this is wrong and likely going to harm. I feel the more side effects I have to endure and then the effects I'll just turn into a complying thing "dealing" with all this, until I can´t take anymore, once again, but this time with a hardly functioning NS and already destroyed life experience.

I think you are right to be concerned about this.  Read on for more information.  

 

Can you please give us specific information about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

This link talks about adverse reactions, which it sounds like you had: 

 

Adverse Reactions to Antidepressant

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

Since recovering from adverse reaction is similar to drug withdrawal, these links could help: 

 

 Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

Also, as we are recovering, we suggest keeping things slow, simple, and stable. This is extremely important. 

 

Considerations About Stability Stop Jumping Around

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called windows and waves.

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Finally, here is a link to help you talk to your doctor about these drugs: 

 

How to Talk to a Doctor About Tapering and Withdrawal

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and mull it over, and we will take it from there. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and take heart.  We in this forum have been through this, and we understand first hand the pain and discomfort you are going through.  Please know that the brain is amazing in it's healing abilities.  It takes time, but healing can and will happen. 

[Whatisthis]

Hi,

 

I'm answering late, with a different situation. Back in June I put the information of my past drug intake in my profile, but don´t really know for whom and how it's visible. I'll correct it and actualize it below:

 

(I have severe insommnia, for which the psychiatrist eventually prescrived different things, in the attempt to get SOME sleep, without which it's completely unbearable to exist)

March 2015 to april 2016: venlafaxine 150 mg (quit without tappering)

December 2019 to february 2021: quetiapine 25mg

                                                         clonazepam 1mg days or weeks at a time.
(For 2 months in 2020: paroxetine 10 mg, quit without tappering)

February 2021 to september 2021: quetiapine 50 mg

                                                           eszopiclone 3mg

 

September 2021 to January 15th 2021: quetiapine 100mg

                                                                  midazolam 15mg

 

January 15th to February 8th: quetiapine 200mg

                                                   alprazolam (took 1mg for three weeks, started to decrease because of fear of benzos, it's been less than a week at 0.75mg                                                        but I'm almost not sleeping)

 

I don't know what will happen from here. My psychiatrist retired so I'l have to go to a new one in a week. Don't know what I'll pose then. I don't want to be on these drugs, while with no choice I'd need to be on the least harmful ones and taken in the most careful way, minding I'm in no way willing to take them in a chronic, no end, hopeless way. But until now this has been too much tu ask from a psychiatrist, who's supposed to know how drugs actually work, care for the actual wellbeing of patients and inform us honestly. I've never known basic human wellbeing since 2014.

 

Anyways, I foresee the next psychiatrist to want to put me on an antidepressant on top of what I'm taking, don't know what they'll make of the benzodiazepine problem and what possibly could they offer to minimize damage and allow me to sleep.

Realistically, given my conditions of trauma and completely altered nervous system, I know I'm not sleeping without some drug helping me in the short term. I've tried it all, natural remedies, very strict sleep hygene, daily habits.

 

Do you have any advise regarding the benzodiazepine and sleep situation?

 

I would really be thankful for it

 

 

                                                    

                                                

                                                 
 

 

 

[getofflex]

Thank you for the drug history.  I have copied it into your signature box with some minor editing, so that this information will automatically appear in each post, and make it easier for the rest of the staff to help you.  

 

So, the only drug you are on now is quetiapine, and alprazolam, at 0.75 mg once per night to help with sleep?  

 

I'm very sorry you are dealing with severe insomnia.  I know how miserable this is - I had insomnia too pretty bad years ago, when I was in early withdrawal.  Does the alprazolam help you to get some sleep?  Just to reassure you somewhat, the sleep issues do gradually improve with time, as long as we take good care of our nervous systems, and allow them to heal.  On average, how much sleep are you getting per night?  

 

Can you please keep a drug and symptom journal?  List the time of day on the right hand side, and on the left list the drug and dose your took, your symptoms, your eating, your sleep, and any other pertinent events and activities.  Do this for 24 hours (day and night), so we can help you find any patterns, or any possible adverse effects of the drug.  Please post them here.  Thank you.  Here is an example: 

 

6 AM woke with anxiety

8 am took 2.5 mg lexapro

10 am stomach is upset

10:30 am ate breakfast

11:35 am got a headache, lasted one hour

12:35 ate lunch

4 pm feel a bit better

5 pm took 2.5 mg lexapro

6 pm ate dinner

9:20 pm headache 

10:00 pm took 50 mg Seroquel

10:30 pm feeling dizzy

10:30 pm fell asleep 

2:30 am woke, took 3 mg Ambien

2:45 am fell asleep

4:30 am woke, but got back to sleep 

 

I will confer with the other staff, and one of us will get back to you.  

Edited February 8, 2022 by getofflex

[Whatisthis]

Hi,

 

Thank you for your reply. I've been trying to write that "journal", I find it very hard to pin down any symptoms, as I'm just so used to all my experience being awful and just having to go along with it. It's hard to identify specific sensations, I don't know what's relevant. I'm at bad times also, feel very bad and not functioning, I've quit doing almost anything since december, as I can't take it and since there's no drastic change I can make/get in my nervous system to be better, it's pointless. Been through this time and again before and just can't find a reason anymore.

 

Anyway, the sleep I'm getting is 6 hours aprox. Sometimes I don't fall asleep, but stay in a semi conscious, semi dream state, along with the effects of the drugs.

I wanted to ask what you think of the benzodiazepine exchange, from midazolam to alprazolam (not on purpose, but was the one I had available), regarding the different actions on the brain they might have (half lives, possible effects, I have no precise idea). I'm going to have to discuss this with the psychiatrist next wednesday. Also, I think/know I'm somehow reliant on the benzo to sleep, but it's a curse since it's so dangerous and detrimental to be on them for more than 2 weeks, and there are no alternatives as potent. I want to wean off anyway, I'll have to see if I can sleep. I'm on 0,75 mg nightly, what would be advisable? reduce 10% every 2 weeks aprox?

 

 

        27/3/22

7:00 woke up

8:40 am got up, got outside (for light to affect the circadian cycle)

9:00 breakfast

13:30 lunch

          I feel very bad, stuck, observe as all these years my thought doesn't move (go from one to another, develop) it's a very despairing symptom. I can't concentrate, feel very low and can't motivate myself.

22:30 took current drugs and lay down to sleep.

 

       2/3/22

23:40 took drugs, lay down to sleep

 

      3/3/22

3:00 woke up. fell asleep some time after.

9:00 got up

21:30  dinner, omega 3

22:10 hot shower (said to help with sleep)

23:00 took drugs, 23:10 lay down to sleep

 

     4/3/22

6:30 woke up

8:10 got up, got outside for light

23:30 had "dinner", was out with friends

 

     5/3/22

2:30 took nightly drugs, lay down to sleep (intermitent sleep, didn't feel I rested well, one of the days I percieve to be semi conscious, semi dreaming.)

9:40 got up

13:00 had lunch, took omegas

23:00 took nightly drugs, lay down to sleep

 

      6/3/22

4:20 woke up, fell asleep some time after

6:30 woke up. Quality of sleep: interrupted, but didn't get up feeling drained

8:20 got up, got outside for light

9:00 had breakfast

 

*February 1st 2022: started supplementing H. erinaceus 650mg daily, have supply only for 2 months

  February 20 2022: started supplementing omega 1080mg EPA 720mg DHA daily

 

Thank you very much

[getofflex]

I realize it is very hard for you to do this.  However, in order for us to help you, we need more information from you about what specific symptoms you are having throughout the day - things like anxiety, insomnia, agitation, depression, crying, nausea, vomiting, brain fog, dizziness, looping thoughts, etc.  This link will list common WD symptoms:  glenmullen_symptoms_AS Appendix 1.pdf. What symptoms do you have from this list, and what time?  We cannot help you unless you are able to give us more information.  We especially need to know what symptoms you have before you take each drug, and what symptoms you have after you take the drug.  Please don't just say "took nightly drugs", say which specific drug you took.  That is the only way we can help you, especially from an online forum.  Thank you.  

 

I see on 4/3/22, and 6/3/22, you didn't indicate you took your drugs.  Did you forget to take your drugs those days? 

[ChessieCat]

Here is an explanation of why the daily symptom notes are so important.  I have copied and pasted the post so that it shows in full.  It includes an example in blue:

 

(link to original post here😞

 

Keep notes on paper about your daily symptom pattern and drug dosing

 

Are your symptoms worse at any particular times of day? A symptom pattern that occurs regularly over several days could mean the symptoms are from withdrawal, other adverse effects of drugs, or something else you do on a daily schedule.

 

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[hayduke]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:21 AM, Whatisthis said:

The reason I'm writing now here, is I'm currently going to a psychiatrist (who works with Open Dialogue), he says I would be benefited by taking more drugs and does not acknowledge the adverse effects as being worrisome

 

That sounds like an unusual view for an Open Dialogue practioner.  Are they more of a dyed-in-the-wool medical model psychiatrist who has recently discovered Open Dialogue?

 

Quetiapine is much more likely to help you sleep than aripiprazole.  I became almost hyperactive on aripiprazole and couldn't sleep, and had to switch back to olanzapine, also very torpor inducing.  I got my sleep back and began my taper after a while then.  Either the prescriber had no idea what those drugs do or is not really trying to help you settle.  I don't know if this is relevant to you but noting anyway - I was taking oxazepam during the hardest parts of the period when I tried aripiprazole, but found they suddenly paradoxically induced anxiety, when previously I'd found benzos calming.

 

I can relate to the effect this barrage of drugs has on your brain - please try and help the others with the symptom notes we need and we will try and help you get more settled.  Thanks

[Altostrata]

Open Dialogue does not mean discussion about what drugs to take.

 

On 2/8/2022 at 7:01 AM, Whatisthis said:

January 15th to February 8th: quetiapine 200mg

                                                   alprazolam (took 1mg for three weeks, started to decrease because of fear of benzos, it's been less than a week at 0.75mg

 

In your daily notes, please specify which drugs you're taking and their dosages. We need to know how you feel before and after each dose and any significant changes in symptom pattern in between.

 

Are you taking quetiapine and alprazolam together at night? How long have you been doing this? For what reason was each drug prescribed?

 

When was the last time you reduced alprazolam? Please stop tapering, don't make any changes in your drugs until we figure out what's going on.

[Whatisthis]

HI,

 

I'm gonna try to make notes if I identify distinct symptoms at different times in the day. So far I've been sleeping about five or six hours, from 12 pm to 6 am. Ive been taking all this time as it's specified in the notes, the dates of the modifications, at 11 pm (never changed the time I take both drugs all this time, plus or minus some minutes) Quetiapine 200mg and alprazolam 0,75 mg are the doses currently.

 

I was prescribed quetiapine to "decrease" visual distortion symtoms I've had for a long time, which became chronic in 2017 after ingestion of a psychedelic in a very bad setting, and trauma that followed those circumstances. It's clearly related to dissociation and trauma, this was the onset. So I was prescribed the quetiapine for these symptoms to be "reduced or eliminated". However, in actual experience, it hasn't actually reduced them or modified them at all, but it somehow changes the grip they have in my experience, as if it makes them affect me less, and allowed me not to care. I also percieved as I started to take it how I cared less and less about all things I could think of. May be benefitial if the contents of mind are so negative, but at some point it's necessary to think and care. I can only guess as I have no proof, but I think quetiapine makes these things more difficult, or much less possible.

I have had really serious problems with sleep all this time, the benzodiazepine was prescribed to be able to sleep (initially it was midazolam 15mg, but since I had to change to another psychiatrist, and in this new medical system they don't have it avialable, I was changed to alprazolam. I live in Uruguay, that's the reality of the public medical system) I reduced from 1mg to 0,75 mg alprazolam on march 1st, this was the last reduction.

 

As to changes in the pattern of symptoms, I've noticed the depression get quite unbearable at around 2pm two days, and later, around 7pm two other days. Everyday I took the same amount of quetiapine and alprazolam, at the same time. I know it's almost no information but I haven't noticed distinct changes most days, and I'm in a very bad place, haven't almost got out of the house or done anything all summer, these past 3 months. One thing I do notice, is that upon waking up I feel markedly more neutral, say if I felt markedly bad at the end of the previous day, which happens often when I discuss or feel tormented contemplating my very bad situation.

 

It's really hopeless the situation, at my last appointment with the new psychiatrist, we said we'll see what to do with the medication, but there is not really anything hopeful to change in terms of what they prescribe, unless I'd be willing to embark on taking an antidepressant.

 

Thank you for caring and your help.

 

Edit: I saw an error in my notes, it says september 2021 to january 15th 2021, and it's january 15th 2022, and the following dates are from 2022 aswell.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Please post 24 hours of daily notes at a time in the requested simple list format, with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.