Yasmine: Tapering lormétazépam

[Shep]

You're welcome, Yasmine. 

[Yasmine]

On 25/06/2021 at 21:23, Erell said:

Bonjour @Yasmine

 

Juste un petit message pour vous dire que nous avons des membres français ici : si vous avez des problèmes de langue, n'hésitez pas à m'envoyer un message. 

Je ne prétendrai pas que je parle parfaitement anglais, mais on peut s'entraider 😉

 

Je tiens également à souligner quelques points :

 

- Le Valium et le Lysanxia ne sont pas les mêmes médicaments. Valium = Diazepam / notre Lysanxia français = Prazepam.

 

Il est vrai que le forum benzo français recommande systématiquement le passage au Prazépam en raison de sa longue demi-vie.

Sur SA, nous avons une approche de réduction des risques : personne ne peut prédire comment un changement affectera votre corps, donc la première option que nous suggérons est de réduire progressivement le médicament initial.

 

A propos de la méthode de dilution : cela peut sembler accablant au début mais c'est une méthode vraiment simple une fois comprise. J'accepte d'en discuter et de l'expliquer en français si besoin.

 

Ok, j'essaierai de revenir demain, bienvenue Yasmine

 

 

Ps : pouvez-vous s'il vous plait créer votre signature ? Cela nous aidera à voir vos antécédents de drogue.

Veuillez inclure les dates de toutes les modifications que vous avez apportées.

Incluez également les suppléments et autres médicaments que vous prenez.

Ceci est un lien direct vers votre signature  : 

paramètres/signature

 

Merci !

@Erell

 

Bonjour Erell,

 

J'ai une question par rapport au comprimé écrasé.

Comment peut-on savoir que nous prenons la dose active dans la poudre puisqu'un comprimé de 111mg par exemple ne contient en réalité que 1mg de produit actif? 

On risque de ne pas prendre assez de produit actif, n'est-ce pas? 

Je voulais aussi vous informer que je prends directement la poudre écrasée car mon comprimé noctamide(lormétazépam) est sublingual et d'ailleurs dès le début mon dr me disait de le croquer, je le prenais donc sans eau jusqu'au mois de Mai 2020. Heureusement il n'a pas de mauvais goût.

Le comprimé n'existe pas en 0.5mg, par conséquent une fois diminué jusqu'à ce poids, est-ce qu'au lieu de le réduire en poudre, je pourrais le couper en 2 car il est sécable ?

 

Merci pour votre retour.

 

Salutations 

Yasmin 

 

[brassmonkey]

Erell mentioned you had a question about the active ingredient being well mixed in the powder. Even distribution of the active ingredient in a tablet is a common concern, but it is unnecessary to worry about it. The second part of this article addresses those concerns.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/22065-myths-about-your-drugs/

 

Tapering a sublingual tablet can be tricky. It seems you are doing quite well so far, but the smaller doses will be more challenging. I wrote something about this, but it take me a while to find it. I'll post it when I do.

[Yasmine]

43 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Erell mentioned you had a question about the active ingredient being well mixed in the powder. Even distribution of the active ingredient in a tablet is a common concern, but it is unnecessary to worry about it. The second part of this article addresses those concerns.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/22065-myths-about-your-drugs/

 

Tapering a sublingual tablet can be tricky. It seems you are doing quite well so far, but the smaller doses will be more challenging. I wrote something about this, but it take me a while to find it. I'll post it when I do.

@brassmonkey

Thank you for your reply.

From the begening, I have always taken the generic lormétazépam, unfortunately it doesn't exist in US and could not find the equivalent. Therefore I am a little bit scared of doing mistakes.

It is a hypnotic benzo with a short to intermediate half-live (10/12 hours).

Yes it's true, touch wood, for the time being I do not have to much symptoms except tingling and skin burning sensation somes days and do not sleep 7 hours through night.  However my biggest fear is that the hyperacusis and tinnitus worsen as I have read that they are also WD symptoms. Therefore I am weaning very slow 5% / 2 weeks. 

Why a sublingual tablet can be tricky? The Dr told me to take it directly under the tongue without even water.

I crushed it between 2 spoons, then weigh the quantity powder I have to take with the reduction and swallow the powder with water. Is that not correct way to do? I was wondering how I can be sure to take the actif drug as it is very small (1mg in 111mg total weight of the tablet).

Do you think that when I come to 0,5mg reduction, I can slip my 1mg tablet and just take the half of the splitting tablet without crushing it.

 

I have been also told to switch to a long half-life liquid benzo lysanxia which doesn't exist in us again..but again I am scared that added a new drug will bring new damages.

 

Unfortunately, we do not have a benzo withdrawal specialist doktors in France who can help me. And to be honest I don't trust to doctors anymore even if I have an appointment with a psychiatre in September. I think he will give me another drug that I definitely don't want to take. 

I am doing everything in order to get rid of this one already. 

 

Than you so much for your kind help.

 

Greetings 

 

Yasmin

[brassmonkey]

The sublingual tablets I have experience with have all been quite small and very fragile. this made them tricky to work with. At 111mg the ones you have will be much easier to make smaller doses with.

 

Many of the drugs that are supplied in a sublingual form can not be swallowed in that form or in a powder form. The acid in the stomach will destroy the active ingredient before it can be absorbed. It is very hard to find any information on this drug so I suspect it behaves in the same manner. So it is best to put the powder under your tongue  and not swallow it.

 

Yes, you should be able to split your pill when the time comes. It would not be as accurate as weighting the powder but would be close.

 

I do not recommend switching to another drug just because it may be easier to taper, just ask Erell.

 

I know that the symptom such as  hyperacusis and tinnitus can be very upsetting, but they do eventually go away as you taper and go off of the medication.

[Yasmine]

14 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The sublingual tablets I have experience with have all been quite small and very fragile. this made them tricky to work with. At 111mg the ones you have will be much easier to make smaller doses with.

 

Many of the drugs that are supplied in a sublingual form can not be swallowed in that form or in a powder form. The acid in the stomach will destroy the active ingredient before it can be absorbed. It is very hard to find any information on this drug so I suspect it behaves in the same manner. So it is best to put the powder under your tongue  and not swallow it.

 

Yes, you should be able to split your pill when the time comes. It would not be as accurate as weighting the powder but would be close.

 

I do not recommend switching to another drug just because it may be easier to taper, just ask Erell.

 

I know that the symptom such as  hyperacusis and tinnitus can be very upsetting, but they do eventually go away as you taper and go off of the medication.

@brassmonkey From the beginning last May 2020, I used to take the tablet under the tongue without water as per the Dr. However since I drop of to 1mg 2 months ago , I was taking it with water. And since 2 weeks with  the drop of 5 %, I take the powder again with water, but If I well understood, I will have to let the powder melt under the tongue. Do you think I had this burning skin sensations symptoms because I was swallowing the powder with water?

 

I have been told to switch to a long half-life benzo in order to avoid interdose WD and because it is easier to taper. And to be honest with you, a lady from a French forum made me very scared by saying:

"But if your doctor does not know anything about it, you will find yourself in serious misery !!! I don't think he knows better than us, we've never crushed the pills here, from what I've read It's up to you to see, but it's risky"

She made me so anxious that I have cried all night. 

I had Tinnitus before I was on benzos  and actually this was the reason I was on it because I couldn't sleep for weeks. So as It is not a symptoms it might not go away. The hyperacusis appeared one and haf month after I was on benzos ( but dont know exactly if the ents tests, benzos which caused it).

 

I don't want to speak to fast but I have noticed that since last few days, I don't have numbness.

Do you think there is a suitable time in the evening that I have to take the sleeping dose?

 

Thank you so much for your kind help,

 

Best regards,

Yasmine

  

[brassmonkey]

By taking the powder with water it is possible that you didn't get the full dose and that could cause the "burning skin" feeling. That feeling is a fairly common WD symptom for benzos. So letting the powder dissolve naturally may help. It will take several days to find out.

 

Please don't let what you read about other people's experiences upset you. Most people who post on these forums are having a very rough time and tend to exaggerate how bad they feel. We are all on an individual journey and can only use other peoples experiences as guide posts and can not believe that what happened to them will happen to us.

 

Experience here has shown that switching to another drug for an "easier taper" only works about half the time. When it works all is fine, but when it doesn't the person is stuck with WD from CTing the first drug and the effects of the new drug that isn't working. Sometimes they can switch back to the original drug, but the chances of that working well are not good. In the long run, if your original drug is not causing a lot of problems with it's taper, it is best to stay there and work with what you have.

 

Are you splitting your dose now? What times do you take it? 

[Yasmine]

46 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

By taking the powder with water it is possible that you didn't get the full dose and that could cause the "burning skin" feeling. That feeling is a fairly common WD symptom for benzos. So letting the powder dissolve naturally may help. It will take several days to find out.

 

Please don't let what you read about other people's experiences upset you. Most people who post on these forums are having a very rough time and tend to exaggerate how bad they feel. We are all on an individual journey and can only use other peoples experiences as guide posts and can not believe that what happened to them will happen to us.

 

Experience here has shown that switching to another drug for an "easier taper" only works about half the time. When it works all is fine, but when it doesn't the person is stuck with WD from CTing the first drug and the effects of the new drug that isn't working. Sometimes they can switch back to the original drug, but the chances of that working well are not good. In the long run, if your original drug is not causing a lot of problems with it's taper, it is best to stay there and work with what you have.

 

Are you splitting your dose now? What times do you take it? 

@brassmonkey 

No I usually I don't let myself influenced by others experiences but this person is a moderator of the forum which follow Pr. Asthon protocol and they have helped many people according to them. 

 

I do not split my dose and never did it because from the begening I was told to take a unique tablet before going to bed as it is a sleeping drug.

I used to take it at 22 or 23 but since June,  I am trying to take it at 21h30 , sometimes I am late 22h15. 

I have also read that the more you cut with time the more you heal and the symptoms are lessen, is that true? 

 

What do you think about the method of filing the tablet?

 

 

 

[Yasmine]

19 hours ago, Yasmine said:

@brassmonkey 

No I usually I don't let myself influenced by others experiences but this person is a moderator of the forum which follow Pr. Asthon protocol and they have helped many people according to them. 

 

I do not split my dose and never did it because from the begening I was told to take a unique tablet before going to bed as it is a sleeping drug.

I used to take it at 22 or 23 but since June,  I am trying to take it at 21h30 , sometimes I am late 22h15. 

I have also read that the more you cut with time the more you heal and the symptoms are lessen, is that true? 

 

What do you think about the method of filing the tablet?

 

 

 

Hello @brassmonkey

I have seen with a pharmacy that can give me smaller doses at 100mg, the current dose for example in the form of a capsule and not a tablet. So I will have to take it with water. She explained that the capsule form prevent the active ingredient from being absorbed by the acidity of the stomach. Do you think this way it will be more acute and I will not have to crush and weigh the tablets.

I wanted to double check with you.

 

Thank you for your help,

 

Yasmine 

[brassmonkey]

Yes, taking the capsules will be fine. The may affect you a little differently. The sublingual will start working almost immediately, while the capsule will take an hour or so to get going. You may find the capsule a little stronger. When you decide to start tapering the capsule will probably be easier to work with.

 

I would keep taking your dose at the same time between 21:30 and 22:30 until you see how the capsules are working for you. Because of the delay in the dose starting to work you may have to take it earlier, but let's wait and see.

 

Dr. Ashton came up with a revolutionary plan for tapering benzos. It is the basis for most tapers today. We have found over the years though that it can be rather harsh in it's symptoms and use a modified version here. That is probably why they were having some problems with it.

 

If a person is doing a slow, controlled taper they should slowly start feeling better as they decrease their dose. I'm not a benzo expert but I do know that their taper can be unpredictable with a number of ups and downs and daily changes in symptoms. But there should be an overall improvement with time as the dose decreases.

[Yasmine]

6 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Yes, taking the capsules will be fine. The may affect you a little differently. The sublingual will start working almost immediately, while the capsule will take an hour or so to get going. You may find the capsule a little stronger. When you decide to start tapering the capsule will probably be easier to work with.

 

I would keep taking your dose at the same time between 21:30 and 22:30 until you see how the capsules are working for you. Because of the delay in the dose starting to work you may have to take it earlier, but let's wait and see.

 

Dr. Ashton came up with a revolutionary plan for tapering benzos. It is the basis for most tapers today. We have found over the years though that it can be rather harsh in it's symptoms and use a modified version here. That is probably why they were having some problems with it.

 

If a person is doing a slow, controlled taper they should slowly start feeling better as they decrease their dose. I'm not a benzo expert but I do know that their taper can be unpredictable with a number of ups and downs and daily changes in symptoms. But there should be an overall improvement with time as the dose decreases.

@brassmonkey

But I have already start taper 1mg with 5% reduction for 2 weeks by crushing the tablet. 

I have not received yet the dose with capsule. 

So It is possible to continue with capsule even if we have started with powder? 

 

Thank you 

Best regards,

Yasmine

[brassmonkey]

Yes, you will have to open the capsule and remove some of the powder that is in it. When you get the capsules we can walk you through it. It is a lot easier than it sounds.

 

Do you have a set of jewelers scales for measuring your current powder? How are you measuring your current reduction?

[Yasmine]

16 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Yes, you will have to open the capsule and remove some of the powder that is in it. When you get the capsules we can walk you through it. It is a lot easier than it sounds.

 

Do you have a set of jewelers scales for measuring your current powder? How are you measuring your current reduction?

I think I misspoke.  I asked the pharmacy to make  capsules with the exact amount minus the decrease in order to avoid crushing and weighing stuff, to make easier. 

[Yasmine]

Just now, Yasmine said:

I think I misspoke.  I asked the pharmacy to make  capsules with the exact amount minus the decrease in order to avoid crushing and weighing stuff, to make easier. 

Because when I weigh the powder, sometimes I got 0.100, then 0.101, 0.102....it is very difficult to get the acute amount every night.

And my tablets exist only in 2mg or 1mg but not less so I have request dr if I can get acute pills with the drop of 5% every 2 weeks. And pharmacy will do it. So I will just have to take the capsule without cutting it. Is that make sense? 

[Yasmine]

3 minutes ago, Yasmine said:

Because when I weigh the powder, sometimes I got 0.100, then 0.101, 0.102....it is very difficult to get the acute amount every night.

And my tablets exist only in 2mg or 1mg but not less so I have request dr if I can get acute pills with the drop of 5% every 2 weeks. And pharmacy will do it. So I will just have to take the capsule without cutting it. Is that make sense? 

@brassmonkey 

This is my taper plan

1mg tablet has an average weight of 0.111g

5% reduction every 2 weeks:

 

1. 0.105g

2. 0.100g

3. 0.095g

4. 0.090g

5. 0.086g

6. 0.082g

7. 0.078g etc....

 

But I am not sure if they will be able to do the smallest amount.

[brassmonkey]

Okay, I understand about the capsules. They would be a little more accurate but not by much.

 

The scales shouldn't have trouble until you get down to around 10mg pill weight. There are ways to make them more accurate. (House guests just arrived) I'll talk more on this later.

[Yasmine]

On 7/30/2021 at 4:42 AM, brassmonkey said:

Okay, I understand about the capsules. They would be a little more accurate but not by much.

 

The scales shouldn't have trouble until you get down to around 10mg pill weight. There are ways to make them more accurate. (House guests just arrived) I'll talk more on this later.

Hello @brassmonkey 

 

No worries I understand.

In fact, I am not sure that my tablet is considered sublingual but my doctor at the beginning told me to take it by crunching it under the tongue directly then 1 year later he told me to take it with water which I had started doing from the last May. But now I have requested the pharmacy to give me doses with the reduction to avoid crushing and weighing every evening.  They are doing that in capsule form.

 

Thank you for your help,

 

Best regards,

Yasmine