Yasmine: Tapering lormétazépam

[Yasmine]

 

Hello everyone,

Thank you for accepting me in the group. 
Would you mind advising If a taper by switching a short life benzo (lormétazépam) with a long life benzo (lysanxia = valium in us) first then reducing 5% per week would be better than tapering straight from the short benzo than I am taking since 17th of May 2020 by reducing 10% each month? 
I have started with 2mg last year but as I was never been warned neither of the danger of benzos nor of the tapering, I had reduce by myself last month from 2mg to 1mg. 
Thank your for advising

Best regards,

Yasmine 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Yasmine.

 

To start:

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.  Please include your dosage of Lorazepam and how many times daily you take it.  Also include the date you started Lorazepam and the date of your decrease from 2mg to 1mg.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

I have very recently done exactly the switch, from Lorazepam to Valium, that you are considering, so I can give you some first-hand information about the advantages and disadvantages of the switch.

 

First, regardless of whether you taper with Lorazepam or Valium, you should taper by no more than 10% per month.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tapering Valium by 5% per week, which would be 20% per month, is twice as fast as what we suggest and I would not recommend it.

 

Dr. Heather Ashton did pioneering work in tapering benzos, and part of her protocol was to switch patients to the longer half-life Valium.  Her tapering rate, however, was much faster than we recommend.  

 

There are advantage and disadvantages to the switch.  The main advantage of Valium is the long half-life, which makes it possible to take only one dose per day.  I was taking Lorazepam 3X daily to avoid interdose withdrawal.  I would have preferred to taper Lorazepam rather than switch to Valum, but Lorazepam was no longer available here in Ecuador and I had no choice.  After years of use, my system was accustomed to Lorazepam and I have found that the Valium is not a great drug for me.  Everyone is different.  In my case, my system did much better with Lorazepam than it is currently doing with Valium as I taper it at the rate of 10%  per month.  Depression is a common side effect of Valium, and I have been experiencing this symptom, which I never did with Lorazepam.  I also continue to experience lack of appetite as a side effect of Valium, something that did not occur with the Lorazepam.  Again, everyone's experience is different.  My general approach to tapering is, unless there is a problem with the original drug, to taper the drug you're already on rather than switch.  But there are many advocates to switching.

 

You can read about my benzo history and crossover in my drug signature beneath this post.

 

Four questions:

1. How are you doing with the Lorazepam?

2.  Are you experiencing symptoms from your drop from 2mg to 1mg?

3.  What is your dosing schedule (how many time a day do you take Lorazepam)?

4.  If you are taking it only once a day, does it stop working toward the end of the day (what is known as interdose withdrawal)?

 

Heather Ashton recommends a 3 to 6 week crossover.   I took the more conservative 6-week approach.   During the crossover you should not taper.   I waited a month after the crossover before I started tapering.   For your reference, here is the crossover schedule I used.  I was taking 3 doses of Lorazepam daily, so you'd need to adapt the schedule to your own situation and dosing schedule.

 

For your dosage calculation, 10mg Valium equals 1mg Lorazepam.  

 

Week 1

Dose 1    Lorazepam

Dose 2    1/2 Lorazepam, 1/2 Valium

Dose 3    Lorazepam

 

Week 2   

Dose 1    Lorazepam

Dose 2   1/2 Lorazepam, 1/2 Valium

Dose 3   1/2 Lorazepam, 1/2 Valium

 

Week 3

Dose 1    1/2, 1/2

Dose 2    1/2, 1/2

Dose 3    1/2, 1/2

 

Week 4

Dose 1    1/2, 1/2

Dose 2    All Valium

Dose 3    1/2, 1/2

 

Week 5  

Dose 1     1/2, 1/2

Dose 2     All Valium

Dose 3     All Valium

 

Week 6   All three doses Valium.  Crossover complete.  Hold one month before beginning 10% per month taper.

 

So you need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages and decide whether or not to make the switch.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Gridley

[Yasmine]

Il y a 11 heures, Gridley a dit :

Bienvenue à SA, Yasmine.

 

Débutant :

 

Pour donner aux meilleures informations, nous leurs membres doivent reprendre leur historique de médicaments dans la signature - médicaments, dates et arrêts et réintégrations, au cours des 12 à 24 derniers mois en particulier. Veuillez inclure votre dose de Lorazépam et combien de fois par jour vous le prenez. Incluez également la date à laquelle vous avez commencé le Lorazépam et la date de votre diminution de 2 mg à 1 mg.

 

Paramètres du compte – Créez ou modifiez une signature.

 

J'ai récemment effectué exactement le passage du Lorazépam au Valium que vous envisagez, je peux donc vous donner des informations de première main sur les avantages et les inconvénients du passage.

 

Tout d'abord, que vous utilisiez du Lorazepam ou du Valium, vous ne devriez pas réduire votre réduction de plus de 10 % par mois.

 

Pourquoi diminuer de 10 % de ma dose ?

 

Diminuer le Valium de 5% par semaine, ce qui serait 20% par mois, est deux fois plus rapide que ce que nous suggérons et je ne le recommanderais pas.

 

Le Dr Heather Ashton a fait un travail de pionnier dans la réduction des benzos, et une partie de son protocole consistant à faire passer les patients au Valium à demi-vie plus longue. Son taux de diminution, cependant, était beaucoup plus rapide que ce que nous informons.  

 

Il y a des avantages et des inconvénients à l'interrupteur.  Le principal avantage du Valium est sa longue demi-vie, qui permet de ne prendre qu'une dose par jour. Je prenais Lorazepam 3X par jour pour éviter le sevrage interdose. J'aurais préféré réduire le Lorazepam plutôt que de passer à Valum, mais le Lorazepam n'était plus disponible ici en Équateur et je n'avais pas le choix. Après des années d'utilisation, mon système s'est habitué au Lorazépam et j'ai découvert que le Valium n'est pas un bon médicament pour moi. Tout le monde est différent. Dans mon cas, mon système a fait beaucoup mieux avec Lorazepam qu'il ne le fait actuellement avec Valium car je diminue à raison de 10% par mois.La dépression est un effet secondaire courant du Valium, et j'ai connu ce symptôme, ce que je n'ai jamais fait avec le Lorazépam. Je continue également à manquer d'appétit comme effet secondaire du Valium, quelque chose qui ne s'est pas produit avec le Lorazépam. De nouveau, l'expérience de chacun est différente. Mon approche générale de la réduction progressive est, à moins qu'il n'y ait un problème avec le médicament d'origine, de réduire progressivement le médicament que vous prenez déjà plutôt que de changer. Mais il existe de nombreux partisans du changement.

 

Vous pouvez lire mon histoire de benzo et mon croisement dans ma signature de drogue sous ce post.

 

Quatre questions :

1. Comment allez-vous avec le Lorazépam ?

2. Éprouvez-vous des symptômes de votre chute de 2 mg à 1 mg ?

3. Quel est votre schéma posologique (combien de fois par jour prenez-vous Lorazepam) ?

4. Si vous ne le prenez qu'une fois par jour, est-ce qu'il cesse d'agir vers la fin de la journée (ce qu'on appelle le sevrage interdose) ?

 

Heather Ashton recommande un crossover de 3 à 6 semaines. J'ai pris l'approche plus conservatrice de 6 semaines. Pendentif le croisement, vous ne devriez pas vous rétrécir. J'ai attendu un mois après le crossover avant de commencer à effiler. Pour votre référence, voici le calendrier de croisement que j'ai utilisé. Je prenais 3 doses de Lorazepam par jour, vous deviez donc adapter le programme à votre propre situation et à votre programme de dosage.

 

Pour le calcul de votre dose, 10 mg de Valium équivalent à 1 mg de Lorazépam.  

 

Semaine 1

Dose 1 Lorazépam

Dose 2 1/2 Lorazépam, 1/2 Valium

Dose 3 Lorazépam

 

Semaine 2   

Dose 1 Lorazépam

Dose 2 1/2 Lorazépam, 1/2 Valium

Dose 3 1/2 Lorazépam, 1/2 Valium

 

Semaine 3

Dose 1 1/2, 1/2

Dose 2 1/2, 1/2 

Dose 3 1/2, 1/2

 

Semaine 4

Dose 1 1/2, 1/2

Dose 2 Tout Valium

Dose 3 1/2, 1/2

 

Semaine 5  

Dose 1 1/2, 1/2

Dose 2 Tout Valium

Dose 3 Tout Valium

 

Semaine 6 Les trois doses de Valium. Croisement complet. Tenir un mois avant de commencer une réduction de 10 % par mois.

 

Vous devez donc peser les avantages et les inconvénients et décider de faire ou de ne pas changer.

 

Nous ne signalons pas beaucoup de suppléments sur SA, car de nombreux membres déclarent y être sensibles en raison de notre système nerveux trop réactif, mais deux suppléments que nous signalons sont le magnésium 3 et les oméga (huile de poisson). Beaucoup de gens trouvent que cela apaise le système nerveux. 

 

Magnésium, bloqueur naturel des canaux calciques 

 

Acides gras oméga-3 (huile de poisson) 

 

Ajoutez-en une fois et à faible dose au cas où vous rencontrez des problèmes. Obtenez des suppléments à ingrédient unique (non mélangés avec d'autres types de suppléments).

 

Ceci est votre sujet d'introduction, où vous pouvez compléter votre signature de médicament, poser des questions et vous connecter avec d'autres membres. Nous sommes heureux que vous avez trouvé votre chemin ici.

 

 

 

Citation

 

Hello Gridley, 

 

Thank you for your explanation.

Sorry if I don't write properly, English is not my native language.

Lormézatepam that I started with 2mg last May 2020 is a hypnotic that I was taking for sleeping usage only. It is not the same than lorazepam.

Unfortunately, I could not find the equivalent drug in English, it is a short life benzo (10 hours). Therefore, I have been told by a French forum that it is very hard to wean 10 % per month with this drug and advised me to switch to a long life benzo (lysanxia which the equivalent is Valium.)

Moreover ,it is very difficult to cut the Lormezetapam in to 10 pieces as the cutter pills cut in hal pieces.

As I was never been warned about withdrawal or tappering by my doctor, by ignorance I tried already last Octobre 2020 to reduce from 2mg to 1mg , I stabilise 3 weeks in 1mg, taking as usuel around 10pm, then reduced to 0.5mg then 0,25.  I remember even  having told 2 doctors about what I was doing but none of them warned me that it was dangerous and were even happy for me. 

Therefore I continue until one night I felt very bad and my left side body from toes to head was shaking. Doctors did not make the connection with the benzo so I thought it was due to Melatonin that I was also taking because of insomnia. And by recommendation of the Doctor I had to increase it again until I reduced it again last month from 2mg to 1mg and since 25th Of May2021, I am taking this amont before bed around 9.30 -10 pm. And As I don't trust them anymore, I prefer to get advices from people who had similar stories than mine. 

I would like to get rid of this poison with less symptomes and as I am already suffering from Tinnitus and hyperacusis, I am scared that by switching in another benzo could worsen the hyperacusis. 

Therefore, I asked Dr if the pill can be crushed and diluted in water in order to di a water taping. He replied that it is possible. But I don't trust him anymore. 

 

Thank you for your help

 

Best regards,

 

Yasmin.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, Yasmine said:

It is not the same than lorazepam.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

3 hours ago, Yasmine said:

And by recommendation of the Doctor I had to increase it again until I reduced it again last month from 2mg to 1mg and since 25th Of May2021, I am taking this amont before bed around 9.30 -10 pm. And As I don't trust them anymore, I prefer to get advices from people who had similar stories than mine.

You've made many changes recently.  I would consider staying where you are for a month until your system stabilizes.

 

3 hours ago, Yasmine said:

I am scared that by switching in another benzo could worsen the hyperacusis. 

Therefore, I asked Dr if the pill can be crushed and diluted in water in order to di a water taping. He replied that it is possible. But I don't trust him anymore. 

If you do a crossover to Valium, please be sure to find out what the equivalence is from 1mg of your current drug to Valium so that you're taking the same dosage of Valium.  Doing a gradual crossover is recommended, as a described in my previous post.

 

If you want to stay with the current drug and taper off it, there are better ways to taper than cutting the pill.  Making a liquid from the pill is one method if you are comfortable with that.  Here's a link on making your own liquid.  

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

3 hours ago, Yasmine said:

Moreover ,it is very difficult to cut the Lormezetapam in to 10 pieces as the cutter pills cut in hal pieces.

 

As I said, there are much better ways to taper than cutting the pill.  The best way to taper using the pill (known as "dry cutting") is to use a digital scale such as the Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon.com.  I can describe in detail how to do this, but the process basically is:

1.  Weigh the 1mg pill.   It will weigh more than 1mg, because every pill has extra material to hold the pill together.  

2.  Thoroughly crush the pill into powder between two spoons

3.  Multiply the weight of the pill (step #1) by .9.  This will give you your current dose minus 10%.

4.  Weigh the powder to get the weight you want (current dose X .9).

5. Pour the powder into a size 00 gelatin capsule.  You can use a small folded piece of paper for this.  Save what you don't use for another pill.

6.  That will give you your current dose minus 10%.

7. Take this dose for four weeks.

8.  Then you are ready to reduce again by 10% of your previous dose by multiplying your previous dose by .9.

 

If you have any question, please ask and we can help you.

 

 

 

 

 

[Yasmine]

52 minutes ago, Gridley said:

You've made many changes recently.  I would consider staying where you are for a month until your system stabilizes.

 

I am already on 1mg since a month, started the 25th of May.  Do you advise to stay and taper from this short life benzo sleeping pill?

I have checked with the pharmacy; this pill can be crushed and diluted in water. I have bought a 10ml syringe and 2 ml syringe.

Do I have to dilute the pill in 10ml of water and removed 10 % wich is 1ml? every evening for a month then removing 10 % of 0,90 which is 0,09 and drink 0,81 the following month.....

[Yasmine]

5 hours ago, Yasmine said:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

Sorry for the confusion.

 

You've made many changes recently.  I would consider staying where you are for a month until your system stabilizes.

 

If you do a crossover to Valium, please be sure to find out what the equivalence is from 1mg of your current drug to Valium so that you're taking the same dosage of Valium.  Doing a gradual crossover is recommended, as a described in my previous post.

 

If you want to stay with the current drug and taper off it, there are better ways to taper than cutting the pill.  Making a liquid from the pill is one method if you are comfortable with that.  Here's a link on making your own liquid.  

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

 

As I said, there are much better ways to taper than cutting the pill.  The best way to taper using the pill (known as "dry cutting") is to use a digital scale such as the Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon.com.  I can describe in detail how to do this, but the process basically is:

1.  Weigh the 1mg pill.   It will weigh more than 1mg, because every pill has extra material to hold the pill together.  

2.  Thoroughly crush the pill into powder between two spoons

3.  Multiply the weight of the pill (step #1) by .9.  This will give you your current dose minus 10%.

4.  Weigh the powder to get the weight you want (current dose X .9).

5. Pour the powder into a size 00 gelatin capsule.  You can use a small folded piece of paper for this.  Save what you don't use for another pill.

6.  That will give you your current dose minus 10%.

7. Take this dose for four weeks.

8.  Then you are ready to reduce again by 10% of your previous dose by multiplying your previous dose by .9.

 

If you have any question, please ask and we can help you.

 

 

 

 

 

This to difficult for me. I prefer to di the water taping. Could you please advise the volume of water I have to use for 1mg of Lormézetapam? 

thank you.

Best regards

Yasmine

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Yasmine said:

Do you advise to stay and taper from this short life benzo sleeping pill?

How are you feeling taking the 1mg of this pill?  Are you feeling ok?   If you are feeling ok, it would be fine to taper off using your current drug.

 

2 hours ago, Yasmine said:

I am already on 1mg since a month, started the 25th of May. 

I have checked with the pharmacy; this pill can be crushed and diluted in water. I have bought a 10ml syringe and 2 ml syringe.

Do I have to dilute the pill in 10ml of water and removed 10 % wich is 1ml? every evening for a month then removing 10 % of 0,90 which is 0,09 and drink 0,81 the following month.....

 

Yasmine, I am tagging (notifying) Brassmonkey, one of our moderators, about your question.  He is very good with water dilution calculations.  

[Hanna72]

Hi @Yasmine

3 hours ago, Yasmine said:

Do I have to dilute the pill in 10ml of water and removed 10 % wich is 1ml? every evening for a month then removing 10 % of 0,90 which is 0,09 and drink 0,81 the following month....

Yes your calculations are correct. If you have a 10 mg pill, then a 10 ml water is mixed with it. If your pill is 20 mg then that would be 20 ml water.

10% off of 1 mg (ML) is 0,9 mg

next reduction would be 10% off of 0.9 equals 0.81 mg.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Hanna72

[Yasmine]

4 hours ago, Gridley said:

Désolé pour la confusion.

 

Vous avez effectué de nombreux changements récemment. J'envisagerais de rester où vous êtes pendant un mois jusqu'à ce que votre système se stabilise.

 

Si vous faites un croisement avec Valium, assurez-vous de savoir quelle est l'équivalence entre 1 mg de votre médicament actuel et Valium afin que vous preniez la même dose de Valium. Il est recommandé de faire un croisement progressif, comme décrit dans mon post précédent.

 

Si vous voulez rester avec le médicament actuel et le réduire progressivement, il existe de meilleures façons de réduire progressivement que de couper la pilule. Faire un liquide à partir de la pilule est une méthode si vous êtes à l'aise avec cela. Voici un lien sur la fabrication de votre propre liquide.  

 

Comment faire un liquide à partir de comprimés ou de capsules

 

 

Comme je l'ai dit, il y a de bien meilleures façons de réduire les effets que de couper la pilule. La meilleure façon d'effiler à l'aide de la pilule (appelée "coupe à sec") est d'utiliser une échelle numérique telle que l'échelle Gemini-20, disponible sur Amazon.com. Je peux décrire en détail comment faire cela, mais le processus est essentiellement :

1. Pesez la pilule de 1 mg. Il pèsera plus de 1 mg, car chaque pilule contient du matériel supplémentaire pour maintenir la pilule ensemble.  

2. Écraser soigneusement la pilule en poudre entre deux cuillères

3. Multipliez le poids de la pilule (étape 1) par 0,9. Cela vous donnera votre dose actuelle moins 10 %.

4. Pesez la poudre pour obtenir le poids souhaité (dose actuelle X .9).

5. Versez la poudre dans une capsule de gélatine de taille 00. Vous pouvez utiliser un petit morceau de papier plié pour cela. Conservez ce que vous n'utilisez pas pour une autre pilule.

6. Cela vous donnera votre dose actuelle moins 10 %.

7. Prenez cette dose pendant quatre semaines.

8. Ensuite, vous êtes prêt à réduire à nouveau de 10 % votre dose précédente en multipliant votre dose précédente par 0,9.

 

Si vous avez des questions, posez-les et nous pourrons vous aider.

 

 

 

 

 

After reflection I actually find that this method is easier.  would this scale be suitable because I can't find yours?

Could you please send the details and would it be possible to take the powder directly without potting in to capsule? 

Thank you for your help

[Gridley]

@Yasmine

 

This scale measures only down to 10mg.  It would be possible to taper with this scale , but your taper is going to go much lower than 10mg in weight and so this scale not be ideal for your taper.  The Gemini scale weighs much lower.

American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20: Amazon.fr: Cuisine ...

 I'd see what else you can find.

 

16 minutes ago, Yasmine said:

would it be possible to take the powder directly without potting in to capsule? 

 

Yes, but the taste would be bad.  If you find using the capsules to be difficult, perhaps you could put the powder in applesauce.

 

I wanted to mention that when you're measuring powder on the scale, you can use tweezers to add and subtract powder to get the weight you want.

[Erell]

Hello @Yasmine

 

Just a quick message to let you know that we have some French members here : if you have some issues with langage, please feel free to send me a message. 

I won't pretend I'm perfectly fluent in English, but we can help each other 😉

 

Also want to point out a few  things :

 

- Valium and Lysanxia are not the same drugs. Valium = Diazepam / our French Lysanxia  = Prazepam.

 

It is true that the French benzo forum does recommend systematically a switch to Prazepam because of its long half-life.

On SA we have a harm-reduction approach : nobody can predict how a switch will affect your body, so the first option we suggest is to taper the initial drug.

 

About the dilution method : it can sound overwhelming at first but is a really simple method once understood. I agree to discuss it and explain it in French if you need.

 

Ok, will try to come back tomorrow, welcome Yasmine ☺

 

 

Ps : can you please create your signature ? It will help us to see your drug history.

Please include dates of every changes you made.

Also include supplements and other drugs you might be taking.

This is a direct link to your signature  : 

settings/signature

 

Thank  you !

Edited June 25, 2021 by Erell

[brassmonkey]

Hi Yasmine-- Welcome to SA, I've been asked to check your math.

 

Before we get into that, we really need for you to fill out a signature block.  This will provide us with specific, current information and will make helping yu much easier:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24613-how-to-list-drug-history-in-signature/

 

The theory behind your calculations is correct.  However, we need to be much more specific about the dosing. To calculate that we need to know the strength of the pills you are working with as listed on the package and the strength of the dose you wish to take. This information will become very important as your taper progresses, because we need to keep the dosing as exact as possible.

 

Please use the @brassmonkey notification when you reply so it doesn't get overlooked.

[Yasmine]

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

How are you feeling taking the 1mg of this pill?  Are you feeling ok?   If you are feeling ok, it would be fine to taper off using your current drug.

 

 

Yasmine, I am tagging (notifying) Brassmonkey, one of our moderators, about your question.  He is very good with water dilution calculations.  

Except that I am tired and that I can't sleep properly every night, I am fine. I did have tingling on my body but it is lessened today and a feeling that i have electricity on my head and gums but I had these feelings for months now maybe it is due to Tinnitus. 

Do you know if Tinnitus and hyperacusis could worse while tapering? 

[Yasmine]

30 minutes ago, Gridley said:

@Yasmine

 

This scale measures only down to 10mg.  It would be possible to taper with this scale , but your taper is going to go much lower than 10mg in weight and so this scale not be ideal for your taper.  The Gemini scale weighs much lower.

American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20: Amazon.fr: Cuisine ...

 I'd see what else you can find.

 

 

Yes, but the taste would be bad.  If you find using the capsules to be difficult, perhaps you could put the powder in applesauce.

 

I wanted to mention that when you're measuring powder on the scale, you can use tweezers to add and subtract powder to get the weight you want.

Thank you for the link. The problem is that I can not purchase it. Maybe we do not have in Amazone France. Or it is not in the stock, t gave the possibility to ad on list but nor purchase it.

regarding the pill, my doctor told me from the beginning to take it under the tongue without water. I did that way until last month. 

Oh my God, it is going to be very difficult to be so precise. 

Regarding the calculation, would it possible to get a file with the amount I should remove or I have to calculate by my own? I really don't want to make mistakes. 

[Yasmine]

21 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Yasmine-- Welcome to SA, I've been asked to check your math.

 

Before we get into that, we really need for you to fill out a signature block.  This will provide us with specific, current information and will make helping yu much easier:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24613-how-to-list-drug-history-in-signature/

 

The theory behind your calculations is correct.  However, we need to be much more specific about the dosing. To calculate that we need to know the strength of the pills you are working with as listed on the package and the strength of the dose you wish to take. This information will become very important as your taper progresses, because we need to keep the dosing as exact as possible.

 

Please use the @brassmonkey notification when you reply so it doesn't get overlooked.

Hello, Sorry I am not really familiar with forums and don't know how to fill out a signature block. And As English is not my native language, I might not understand all properly. Regarding the pill I take . I had started last year with 2mg of Lormétazépam a short life (10 hours) hypnotic benzo which was prescribed to me for isomia due to Tinnitus. And after a month on this pill, I also developped Hyperacusis. And as I have not been warned about the danger and the withdrawal , I have reduce from 2mg to 1mg since 25th of May, since a month now. As it is a short life benzo, I have been advised to overcrossed it with lysanxia , a long life benzo (150 hours) , the equivalent in US is valium I guess. Bur I could not find the equivalent of the Lormétazepam in US.

In conclusion, I am lost and don't know how to get read of this pill with less symptoms, that I suspect to have caused the hyperacusis .

Thank you for your kind help 

 

Yasmine 

[brassmonkey]

Did you get a new prescription for the 1mg pills or are you cutting the 2mg pills in half?

[Nomansland]

Hello @Yasmine,

 

i searched a bit on amazon.fr for a gemini-20 scale.

 

Ive found a few alternatives (should be the same model, just different label), see:

 

https://www.amazon.fr/Smart-Weigh-GEM20-intelligente-20x0-001g/dp/B00ESHDGOI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=gem20+scale&qid=1624652560&sr=8-2

 

https://www.amazon.fr/diamant-numérique-dutilisation-précision-plastique/dp/B07LGQYSPL/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=gem20+scale&qid=1624652560&sr=8-18

 

(For the second link, you only get 1x 10g weight, but you normaly need two to calibrate the scale. So i would choose the first one or order the second one and buy an extra 10g weight.)

 

Dont know much about how to taper benzos, but think you will also be fine tapering with liquid, if you cannot get a good scale.

 

Greetings

[Yasmine]

7 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Did you get a new prescription for the 1mg pills or are you cutting the 2mg pills in half?

It is a new prescription for the 1mg 

[Gridley]

47 minutes ago, Yasmine said:

 

Do you know if Tinnitus and hyperacusis could worse while tapering? 

It's possible that symptoms can worsen while tapering, but if you are tapering slowly enough, the symptoms should return to your baseline at some point during the four week period while you're tapering.

 

39 minutes ago, Yasmine said:

Regarding the calculation, would it possible to get a file with the amount I should remove or I have to calculate by my own? I really don't want to make mistakes. 

Yes, it is important to be accurate.  If you decide to taper using a scale, it will be a simple matter of weighing the pill, then multiplying that weight by .9 to get a 10% reduction.  That will be your dose.  Then after 4 weeks on that dose when you're ready for the next reduction, you'll multiply your previous dose by .9 and that will be the weight you'll take for the next four weeks, etcetera.

 

 

[Yasmine]

1 minute ago, Nomansland said:

Hello @Yasmine,

 

i searched a bit on amazon.fr for a gemini-20 scale.

 

Ive found a few alternatives (should be the same model, just different label), see:

 

https://www.amazon.fr/Smart-Weigh-GEM20-intelligente-20x0-001g/dp/B00ESHDGOI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=gem20+scale&qid=1624652560&sr=8-2

 

https://www.amazon.fr/diamant-numérique-dutilisation-précision-plastique/dp/B07LGQYSPL/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=gem20+scale&qid=1624652560&sr=8-18

 

Greetings

Thank you so much.

Best regards,

Yasmine

[Yasmine]

3 minutes ago, Gridley said:

It's possible that symptoms can worsen while tapering, but if you are tapering slowly enough, the symptoms should return to your baseline at some point during the four week period while you're tapering.

 

Yes, it is important to be accurate.  If you decide to taper using a scale, it will be a simple matter of weighing the pill, then multiplying that weight by .9 to get a 10% reduction.  That will be your dose.  Then after 4 weeks on that dose when you're ready for the next reduction, you'll multiply your previous dose by .9 and that will be the weight you'll take for the next four weeks, etcetera.

 

 

If I well understood, you mean for instance the first dose would be = 1X0,90 = 0,90mg for 4 weeks. Then 0,90X0,90= 0,81(the dose I should take after 4 weeks , then 0,81X0,90 =0,729 (the next dose) etc...Wow How I am going to weigh this amount ?

There is something I don't understand, In French withdrawal forum, I have been told that according the Ashton protocol, the 10% reduction applies every 2 weeks? And that after 21 days body enters in tolerance. To avoid this, the advise to reduce 5% or 3 % every 8 / 7days . 

I am so confused. 

[Yasmine]

23 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Il est possible que les symptômes s'aggravent pendant la diminution, mais si vous diminuez suffisamment lentement, les symptômes devraient revenir à votre niveau de base à un moment donné au cours de la période de quatre semaines pendant laquelle vous diminuez.

 

Oui, il est important d'être précis. Si vous décidez de réduire en utilisant une balance, il vous suffira de peser la pilule, puis de multiplier ce poids par 0,9 pour obtenir une réduction de 10 %. Ce sera votre dose. Ensuite, après 4 semaines avec cette dose, lorsque vous serez prêt pour la prochaine réduction, vous multiplierez votre dose précédente par 0,9 et ce sera le poids que vous prendrez pour les quatre prochaines semaines, etc.

 

 

Is 10% every 4 weeks not to fast? 

This is what I have been told :

"Good evening,
 On the forum, regular and small drops are widely preferred.
 Indeed, the body must adapt to each drop (ie operate with a little less molecules therefore a little less shock absorber ") and the small steps are easier to manage for it than the large ones.
 Rather, it is advisable to decrease with a percentage of 5% and increments of 8 days.  Thus, your body adapts to a withdrawal rhythm and regularity reduces withdrawal symptoms.
 If you drop by 10% over a month, your body will have a harder time taking the drop, especially on low doses (I don't know your current dose).
 Good night" 

[Altostrata]

@Yasmine, we need you to follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this. This will help us understand your tapering.

[Gridley]

45 minutes ago, Yasmine said:

If I well understood, you mean for instance the first dose would be = 1X0,90 = 0,90mg for 4 weeks. Then 0,90X0,90= 0,81(the dose I should take after 4 weeks , then 0,81X0,90 =0,729 (the next dose) etc...Wow How I am going to weigh this amount ?

The weight of the pill is much larger than the dosage of the pill.  When tapering using the scale, there are two measurements that you will be dealing with.  The first is "active ingredient," which is abbreviated as "ai."  This is the dosage that is on the bottle.  Right now you're taking 1mg active ingredient, abbreviated 1mgai.

 

The second measurement is "pill weight," abbreviated "pw."  So when you weigh your pill, the weight you get will be Xmg pill weight, written as Xmgpw.  This "pw" will be much larger than your "ai" of 1mg because of the fillers and binders used to make the pill.  

So your 1mg active ingredient pill may actually weigh 10mg, maybe a little more or maybe a little less.  It will be different for each brand of pill.  That's why it will be possible to use a scale--because you'll be weighing a much larger weight than 1mg.

 

45 minutes ago, Yasmine said:

I have been told that according the Ashton protocol, the 10% reduction applies every 2 weeks? And that after 21 days body enters in tolerance. To avoid this, the advise to reduce 5% or 3 % every 8 / 7days . 

As I said earlier, the Ashton method is much faster than we recommend.  10% every 2 weeks is, according to our experience, much too fast and outs you at risk of withdrawal.  5% every 7 days would also be too fast.  3% every 7 days would be close to what we recommend but still a little too high.

 

If you're more comfortable reducing a smaller amount more often, you could use the Brassmonkey slide taper. This taper operates under the principle that your quote recommends: smaller reductions more often to "cushion" the effect of the reduction. Using this taper, you would reduce by 2.5% of current dose every week for 4 weeks, followed by a 2-week hold.  This link explain this taper.  

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

I used this method to taper the antidepressant Lexapro and found it to be very good.  It's a little slower than the 10%/monthly method but more gentle.

 

 

 

 

 

[Yasmine]

2 hours ago, Erell said:

Bonjour @Yasmine

 

Juste un petit message pour vous dire que nous avons des membres français ici : si vous avez des problèmes de langue, n'hésitez pas à m'envoyer un message. 

Je ne prétendrai pas que je parle parfaitement anglais, mais on peut s'entraider 😉

 

Je tiens également à souligner quelques points :

 

- Le Valium et le Lysanxia ne sont pas les mêmes médicaments. Valium = Diazepam / notre Lysanxia français = Prazepam.

 

Il est vrai que le forum benzo français recommande systématiquement le passage au Prazépam en raison de sa longue demi-vie.

Sur SA, nous avons une approche de réduction des risques : personne ne peut prédire comment un changement affectera votre corps, donc la première option que nous suggérons est de réduire progressivement le médicament initial.

 

A propos de la méthode de dilution : cela peut sembler accablant au début mais c'est une méthode vraiment simple une fois comprise. J'accepte d'en discuter et de l'expliquer en français si besoin.

 

Ok, j'essaierai de revenir demain, bienvenue Yasmine

 

 

Ps : pouvez-vous s'il vous plait créer votre signature ? Cela nous aidera à voir vos antécédents de drogue.

Veuillez inclure les dates de toutes les modifications que vous avez apportées.

Incluez également les suppléments et autres médicaments que vous prenez.

Ceci est un lien direct vers votre signature  : 

paramètres/signature

 

Merci !

 

2 hours ago, Erell said:

Bonjour @Yasmine

 

Juste un petit message pour vous dire que nous avons des membres français ici : si vous avez des problèmes de langue, n'hésitez pas à m'envoyer un message. 

Je ne prétendrai pas que je parle parfaitement anglais, mais on peut s'entraider 😉

 

Je tiens également à souligner quelques points :

 

- Le Valium et le Lysanxia ne sont pas les mêmes médicaments. Valium = Diazepam / notre Lysanxia français = Prazepam.

 

Il est vrai que le forum benzo français recommande systématiquement le passage au Prazépam en raison de sa longue demi-vie.

Sur SA, nous avons une approche de réduction des risques : personne ne peut prédire comment un changement affectera votre corps, donc la première option que nous suggérons est de réduire progressivement le médicament initial.

 

A propos de la méthode de dilution : cela peut sembler accablant au début mais c'est une méthode vraiment simple une fois comprise. J'accepte d'en discuter et de l'expliquer en français si besoin.

 

Ok, j'essaierai de revenir demain, bienvenue Yasmine

 

 

Ps : pouvez-vous s'il vous plait créer votre signature ? Cela nous aidera à voir vos antécédents de drogue.

Veuillez inclure les dates de toutes les modifications que vous avez apportées.

Incluez également les suppléments et autres médicaments que vous prenez.

Ceci est un lien direct vers votre signature  : 

paramètres/signature

 

Merci !

Bonjour Erell,.

 

Merci pour votre réponse. 

 

En effet, je sais bien que le valium n'est pas l'équivalent du lysanxia mais j'ai cru comprendre que c'est ce que l'on proposait pour un benzo à demi-vie longue en général. Et sur les forums français on nous préconise la substitution au lysanxia.

Mon hésitation se porte surtout au sujet des symptômes que je souhaite éviter au maximum car je souffre déjà d'acouphènes et d'hyperacousie. 

Bonne soirée 

Yasmine

[Yasmine]

1 hour ago, Nomansland said:

Bonjour @Yasmine,

 

J'ai cherché un peu sur amazon.fr une échelle gemini-20.

 

J'ai trouvé quelques alternatives (devrait être le même modèle, juste une étiquette différente), voir :

 

https://www.amazon.fr/Smart-Weigh-GEM20-intelligente-20x0-001g/dp/B00ESHDGOI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=gem20+scale&qid=1624652560&sr=8-2

 

https://www.amazon.fr/diamant-numérique-dutilisation-précision-plastique/dp/B07LGQYSPL/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=gem20+scale&qid=1624652560&sr=8-18

 

(Pour le deuxième lien, vous n'obtenez qu'un poids de 10 g, mais vous en avez normalement besoin de deux pour calibrer la balance. Je choisirais donc le premier ou commanderais le second et achèterais un poids supplémentaire de 10 g.)

 

Je ne sais pas grand-chose sur la façon de réduire les benzos, mais je pense que vous serez également très efficace avec du liquide si vous ne pouvez pas obtenir une bonne échelle.

 

Les salutations

Thank you very much

Best regards 

Yasmine 

[Yasmine]

1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

Avez-vous reçu une nouvelle ordonnance pour les pilules de 1 mg ou coupez-vous les pilules de 2 mg en deux ?

Yes I did 

[Yasmine]

10 hours ago, Gridley said:

The weight of the pill is much larger than the dosage of the pill.  When tapering using the scale, there are two measurements that you will be dealing with.  The first is "active ingredient," which is abbreviated as "ai."  This is the dosage that is on the bottle.  Right now you're taking 1mg active ingredient, abbreviated 1mgai.

 

The second measurement is "pill weight," abbreviated "pw."  So when you weigh your pill, the weight you get will be Xmg pill weight, written as Xmgpw.  This "pw" will be much larger than your "ai" of 1mg because of the fillers and binders used to make the pill.  

So your 1mg active ingredient pill may actually weigh 10mg, maybe a little more or maybe a little less.  It will be different for each brand of pill.  That's why it will be possible to use a scale--because you'll be weighing a much larger weight than 1mg.

 

As I said earlier, the Ashton method is much faster than we recommend.  10% every 2 weeks is, according to our experience, much too fast and outs you at risk of withdrawal.  5% every 7 days would also be too fast.  3% every 7 days would be close to what we recommend but still a little too high.

 

If you're more comfortable reducing a smaller amount more often, you could use the Brassmonkey slide taper. This taper operates under the principle that your quote recommends: smaller reductions more often to "cushion" the effect of the reduction. Using this taper, you would reduce by 2.5% of current dose every week for 4 weeks, followed by a 2-week hold.  This link explain this taper.  

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

I used this method to taper the antidepressant Lexapro and found it to be very good.  It's a little slower than the 10%/monthly method but more gentle.

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Gridley,

 

I am so sorry, i forgot to precise that my drug is not pill , not a capsule, it is a tablet which is not packed. 

[Yasmine]

13 hours ago, Yasmine said:

Is 10% every 4 weeks not to fast? 

This is what I have been told :

"Good evening,
 On the forum, regular and small drops are widely preferred.
 Indeed, the body must adapt to each drop (ie operate with a little less molecules therefore a little less shock absorber ") and the small steps are easier to manage for it than the large ones.
 Rather, it is advisable to decrease with a percentage of 5% and increments of 8 days.  Thus, your body adapts to a withdrawal rhythm and regularity reduces withdrawal symptoms.
 If you drop by 10% over a month, your body will have a harder time taking the drop, especially on low doses (I don't know your current dose).
 Good night" 

I am a little bit confused because in withdrawal protocole, it says the 10 % method is to fast : 

"This method consists of reducing the "current" dose by 10% every 1, 2 or 3 weeks. The Icarus Project advises a drop every 2-3 weeks while Peter Breggin advises a level of 7 to 10 days (if the duration of treatment has been less than one year of use). The CSK advises a decrease of 5 to 10% every 1 to 2 weeks; or 12% of the dose every 2 weeks. CSK also recommends Ashton's manual for more information on weaning and the protocol. The dose " in progress ”is not the initial dose, but corresponds to the dose remaining after each decrease. Heather Ashton and The Icarus Project also advise when it comes to of a benzodiazepine or antidepressant molecule with a short half-life, the substitution by longer half-life to decrease the severity and frequency of symptoms of weaning or discontinuation. As we see, the rules of the 10% method are slightly different in function of the authors. But these rules fundamentally respect the principles of small decreases in the current dose and stabilization steps of a few days between two decreases. However, there is one point to which we draw your attention: from experience, we have found that the percentage decrease of 10% is almost impossible to apply on throughout withdrawal or with all types of psychotropic drugs. As JP noted, if he is possible to do it over the first three months, it is then necessary to spend on a percentage of 7% then 5% over the last six months and end with decreases of 3%. According to JP, it is on this tempo that we get there and especially that we benefit from it after weaning."

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Yasmine said:

it says the 10 % method is to fast : 

All the other sources you mention (Icarus, Breggin, CSK, Ashton) are, according to your post, FASTER than the 10% per month method we recommend, so I don't understand why you say the 10% per month method is too fast.  We are SLOWER than the sources you mention.  All the protocols you mention have different recommendations.  We recommend 10% every four weeks because, in our opinion, it is better to go slower rather than faster.  If you want to choose the faster rates recommended by other sources, that is your decision.  Some people can go faster than 10% per month; some people must go slower.  The 10% per month rate is not a law written in stone.  Other sources, such as the ones you mention, have a different opinion.  It is your decision which advice you want to follow and which taper rate you want to choose.

 

1 hour ago, Yasmine said:

CSK also recommends Ashton's manual for more information on weaning and the protocol.

As I've said before, we believe the Ashton Manual recommendation is too fast.

 

1 hour ago, Yasmine said:

The dose " in progress ”is not the initial dose, but corresponds to the dose remaining after each decrease.

That is exactly what we recommend.

 

1 hour ago, Yasmine said:

The Icarus Project also advise when it comes to of a benzodiazepine or antidepressant molecule with a short half-life, the substitution by longer half-life to decrease the severity and frequency of symptoms of weaning or discontinuation.

If you wish, you can substitute a benzo with a longer half-life.  It is your choice.  Every source has a different opinion.  Our view is that, because you don't know how you will react to a new benzo, it is better to taper the same benzo you're now taking.  Other sources recommend changing to a benzo with a longer half-life.  In my personal experience, changing from Lorazepam (Ativan) to Valium is making the taper harder for me, and I would have preferred to taper the short half-life Lorazepam that I was familiar with and had no side effects from.  Others' personal experiences may differ.  It is your decision whether or not to switch to a longer half-life benzo.

 

1 hour ago, Yasmine said:

But these rules fundamentally respect the principles of small decreases in the current dose

 

As I said earlier, if you want to make changes more often than once a month, you can use the Brassmmonkey slide taper I linked to in a previous post.  This is a 2.5% decrease from your current dose (the dose "in progress") every week for 4 weeks, followed by a 2-week hold.

 

You have to do what seems right to you.  There is no way to reconcile the different taper recommendations of all these different sources that you mention.  They are different.  Again, you have to choose what you think is right for you.

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Gridley

[Erell]

Hello @Yasmine

 

I understand very well your confusion as you might read things here that are different from what you've read on the French benzo support website.

It can be very confusing : first you realise that doctors didn't warn you correctly about the drugs, and then, while you're trying to do your own researches, you realise that you find a lot of conflicting infos and advices.

Who can you trust now, who know the absolut truth about these drugs ?

 

Been there too, thought that too.

 

I won't tell you what to do, I'll just share my experience  : once I found survivingantidepressants.org, I realised how little we know about these drugs, that with withdrawal there are no universal truth or rules that will absolutely fit with everyone.

It can feel quite shocking and destabilising, but we are lucky as we can benefit from the testimonies and experience of all those ahead us.

 

What can we learn from all these testimonies (and from scientific papers ) ? :

 

- There are no "absolut rules", the leader in this process is your body, and every journey is unique.

There are people who might do ok with a 10% drop every 4 weeks, others will need smaller drops (5%,3%,1%, ...) and/or longer holds.

The key is to listen to your body.

 

- It also means that there won't be one "absolut rule" during your own taper  : you might do fine with 10% drops and realise at one point that you need smaller drops/ you might feel fine during a few drops and then feel the cumulative effetcs and feel like you need a good long hold/...

All these situations are possible  : remember, the body and his need of time to readjust is the leader here.

 

- We also can learn that a switch to a drug with a longer half-life is not necessarily the magical solution some may promote. Yes, it is true, some people benefit from a drug switch. And yes, it is also true that it can be a negative experience for others.

As @Gridley said, nobody can predict how your body will react to a new drug.

The safest path is probably to try to taper the initial drug before considering a switch.

 

 

So what can we do with all these infos  ?

On SA we promote a harm reduction approach  : take the time to read and educate yourself/ take the time you need to understand the different methods to taper /start slow with a small drop and hold for a while to see how your body react/ adjust your taper to your body's needs /don't rush your taper, give enough time to your CNS to do his repair work.

 

Take the time to digest all these infos, that's a lot.

 

Have a nice day ☀️

[Yasmine]

11 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Toutes les autres sources que vous mentionnez (Icarus, Breggin, CSK, Ashton) sont, selon votre message, PLUS RAPIDE que la méthode 10% par mois que nous recommandons, donc je ne comprends pas pourquoi vous dites que la méthode 10% par mois est trop vite. Nous sommes PLUS LENTS que les sources que vous mentionnez. Tous les protocoles que vous mentionnez ont des recommandations différentes. Nous recommandons 10% toutes les quatre semaines car, à notre avis, il vaut mieux aller plus lentement que plus vite. Si vous souhaitez choisir les tarifs les plus rapides recommandés par d'autres sources, c'est votre décision. Certaines personnes peuvent aller plus vite que 10 % par mois ; certaines personnes doivent aller plus lentement. Le taux de 10 % par mois n'est pas une loi gravée dans le marbre. D'autres sources, comme celles que vous mentionnez, ont un avis différent. C'est à vous de décider quels conseils vous souhaitez suivre et quel taux de réduction vous souhaitez choisir.

 

Comme je l'ai déjà dit, nous pensons que la recommandation du manuel Ashton est trop rapide.

 

C'est exactement ce que nous recommandons.

 

Si vous le souhaitez, vous pouvez remplacer un benzo avec une demi-vie plus longue. C'est ton choix. Chaque source a un avis différent. Notre point de vue est que, parce que vous ne savez pas comment vous réagirez à un nouveau benzo, il est préférable de réduire progressivement le même benzo que vous prenez actuellement. D'autres sources recommandent de passer à un benzo avec une demi-vie plus longue. D'après mon expérience personnelle, le passage du Lorazepam (Ativan) au Valium me rend la conicité plus difficile, et j'aurais préféré réduire la courte demi-vie de Lorazepam que je connaissais et dont je n'ai eu aucun effet secondaire. Les expériences personnelles des autres peuvent différer. C'est votre décision de passer ou non à un benzo à demi-vie plus longue.

 

 

Comme je l'ai dit plus tôt, si vous souhaitez apporter des modifications plus d'une fois par mois, vous pouvez utiliser le cône de glissière Brassmmonkey auquel j'ai lié dans un article précédent. Il s'agit d'une diminution de 2,5 % par rapport à votre dose actuelle (la dose « en cours ») chaque semaine pendant 4 semaines, suivie d'une suspension de 2 semaines.

 

Vous devez faire ce qui vous semble juste. Il n'y a aucun moyen de concilier les différentes recommandations de conicité de toutes ces différentes sources que vous mentionnez. Ils sont différents. Encore une fois, vous devez choisir ce que vous pensez être bon pour vous.

 

I know and I am sorry to make you repeat, I am just lost and want to get rid of this drug as soon as possible. But I don't know how my body will react. Las night I slept vey bad, could not sleep until 4am then woke up at 9am with another sound (like ultra sound). However, I don't want to give myself a false joy, i have the feeling that the hyperacusis has diminished.

Woud it be pssible to start first with the 10% per 4 week , and according to how I feel try 3% weekly?

[Yasmine]

46 minutes ago, Erell said:

Bonjour @Yasmine

 

Je comprends très bien votre confusion car vous pourriez lire ici des choses différentes de ce que vous avez lu sur le site Web de support français de benzo.

Cela peut être très déroutant : d'abord vous vous rendez compte que les médecins ne vous ont pas correctement mis en garde sur les médicaments, puis, pendant que vous essayez de faire vos propres recherches, vous vous rendez compte que vous trouvez beaucoup d'informations et de conseils contradictoires.

A qui faire confiance maintenant, qui connaît la vérité absolue sur ces drogues ?

 

J'y ai été aussi, j'y ai pensé aussi.

 

Je ne vais pas vous dire quoi faire, je vais juste partager mon expérience : une fois que j'ai trouvé survivingantidepressants.org, j'ai réalisé à quel point nous en savons peu sur ces médicaments, qu'avec le sevrage il n'y a pas de vérité ou de règles universelles qui correspondent absolument avec toutes les personnes.

Cela peut sembler assez choquant et déstabilisant, mais nous avons de la chance car nous pouvons bénéficier des témoignages et de l'expérience de tous ceux qui nous attendent.

 

Que pouvons-nous apprendre de tous ces témoignages (et des articles scientifiques) ? :

 

- Il n'y a pas de "règles absolues", le leader dans ce processus est votre corps, et chaque voyage est unique.

Il y a des gens qui pourraient faire d'accord avec une baisse de 10% toutes les 4 semaines, d'autres auront besoin de baisses plus petites (5%,3%,1%, ...) et/ou des prises plus longues.

La clé est d'écouter votre corps.

 

- Cela signifie également qu'il n'y aura pas de "règle absolue" lors de votre propre taper : vous pouvez vous en sortir avec 10% de gouttes et vous rendre compte à un moment donné que vous avez besoin de plus petites gouttes / vous pourriez vous sentir bien pendant quelques gouttes et ensuite vous sentir les effets cumulés et l'impression d'avoir besoin d'une bonne tenue longue/...

Toutes ces situations sont possibles : rappelez-vous, le corps et son besoin de temps pour se réadapter est ici le leader.

 

- On peut aussi apprendre qu'un passage à un médicament à demi-vie plus longue n'est pas forcément la solution magique que certains peuvent promouvoir. Oui, c'est vrai, certaines personnes bénéficient d'un changement de drogue. Et oui, il est également vrai que cela peut être une expérience négative pour les autres.

Comme @Gridley dit, personne ne peut prédire comment votre corps réagira à un nouveau médicament.

Le chemin le plus sûr est probablement d'essayer de réduire progressivement le médicament initial avant d'envisager un changement.

 

 

Alors que faire de toutes ces infos ?

Sur SA nous promouvons une approche de réduction des méfaits : prenez le temps de lire et de vous renseigner/prenez le temps qu'il faut pour comprendre les différentes méthodes pour diminuer/commencer lentement avec une petite goutte et maintenez pendant un moment pour voir comment votre corps réagit/s'ajuste votre cône aux besoins de votre corps / ne précipitez pas votre cône, laissez suffisamment de temps à votre SNC pour faire son travail de réparation.

 

Prenez le temps de digérer toutes ces infos, c'est beaucoup.

 

Bonne journée ☀️

Hello Erell,

Thank you so much for your advices. Yes As you said, I had so much information and my brain is so tired because of this drug and insomnia that I can not keep all in my mind.

I will start with the dry cutting I guess because I am so scared to worsen the hyperacusis with a new drug.

what I forget to write is that my Dr encourage me also to take Prozac which I have tried on the 17th of August 2020, I remember that the first evening it , I got mad, my Tinnitus worsen by X10 and was crying , called the doctor at 2am. He told me to stop it 2 days, then to take it by noon. I took it for 1 and half month but then stop it definitely because did not helped me at all, and I even wonder if it did not also worsen my hyperacusis. 

[Yasmine]

Hello, 

 

I would like to know if hyperacusis could be a side effet of an hypnotic sleeping benzo called Lormezetapam in France.

Indeed, I got Tinnitus on May 2020 then I had take sleeping pills every night for a year.

After one and half month , I noticed that I was sensitive the noises.  I also had taken lexomil (anxiolitic benzo ) but not regularly.

In 17th of August, Dr advised me to take Prozac. I remember the first evening I took it, I was getting mad, then he told me to stop for 2 days then take it in the afternoon again. I tried it for almost 2 months but stop it because it didn't help me. And now I am even wondering if Prozac had worsen the hyperacusis.

As I was not warned neither of the danger of benzos nor about the tapering, so I decided by myself to reduce it last October 2020. First from 2mg to 1mg then 0,5mg .....Then I had insomia and had to increase the dose again as recommended by Dr who did not again told me that I was going to fast.

Then last month , I again reduced the dose from 2mg to 1mg. Recently,  I found out benzos withdrawal groups and realized that I was doing wrong and going to fast. Thanks to these groups and forums from which I have learned much.

 

Best regards,

 

Yasmine  

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Yasmine said:

Woud it be pssible to start first with the 10% per 4 week , and according to how I feel try 3% weekly?

Yes, you could start with the 10% per 4 week taper and see how that works for you.   

 

3% weekly is a little higher than we would recommend.  You could try 2.5% weekly.  The Brassmonkey slide taper that I mentioned earlier is 2.5% of current dose every week for 4 weeks, then you hold there for 2 weeks.  

 

I know it is is difficult and confusing.  Once you get started, you will have a better idea of what is best for you.  

 

 

[Yasmine]

45 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Yes, you could start with the 10% per 4 week taper and see how that works for you.   

 

3% weekly is a little higher than we would recommend.  You could try 2.5% weekly.  The Brassmonkey slide taper that I mentioned earlier is 2.5% of current dose every week for 4 weeks, then you hold there for 2 weeks.  

 

I know it is is difficult and confusing.  Once you get started, you will have a better idea of what is best for you.  

 

 

I'll start as soon as I get the scales.  just one more question please.  The medicine I use is not a capsule but a tablet.  I directly weigh my tablet and remove 10% cut in half then crush one half. I take 0.90mg of this tablet because it is not packed so I don't need to weigh twice, Am I right? 

Thank you