Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

[Chompoo]

Heads-up: if you are suffering from insomnia, avoid MSG (monosodium glutamate) in your food along with caffeine. I ate a whole bunch of rice crackers today and discovered later that they contain MSG. It must have been a lot of MSG because my stomach started gurgling on and off, and my paresthesia worsened. I've also been unable to sleep the whole night, no matter how much I'm yawning or how tired I am. I really regret eating those crackers now.

[Chompoo]

Things to avoid to prevent a bad night's sleep:

 

• Sugar – this is an obvious one, fuelling the body at the wrong time of day. Even sweeteners, which mimic sugar, can trick the body into producing cortisol. This prevents the body, and mind, from being able to wind down at the end of the day.
   
• Caffeine – another obvious one, and it can take longer than we realise for the body to filter the caffeine out of its system. Avoid tea, coffee, caffeinated fizzy drinks and dark chocolate after around 2pm if you want to nix those insomnia issues.
   
• Alcohol – stop drinking around 2 hours before bed. Alcohol tricks the brain into thinking it is able to sleep, by activating receptors for the brain chemical, GABA. It then wakes up later, realising it doesn’t actually have enough GABA required to facilitate sleep.
   
• Drinks containing artificial sweeteners – these have been shown to affect the quality of sleep. Again, they trick the brain, affecting the levels of chemicals (neurotransmitters), raising the resting heart rate and preventing adequate deep, restorative non-REM sleep.
   
• Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) – this can act as an excitotoxin in the brain, stimulating activity. Too much glutamate also throws the balance of GABA, which in turn increases anxiety and reduces REM sleep levels. Foods that encourage the formation of glutamate in the body include: whey protein, gelatine, soy, peas, tomatoes and parmesan cheese – reduce these foods and foods containing MSG if you are experiencing anxiety and poor sleep.
   
• Nicotine – there are lots of reasons to stop smoking, but if you’re experiencing insomnia issues and poor sleep quality, then this is a big one. Nicotine is a stimulant, so any smoking later in the day/evening in particular could be keeping you awake at night. Withdrawal pangs overnight may wake you up and keep you awake.
  
  https://www.therealnutritionist.com/2017/08/21/insomnia-issues-nutrition/

[FeralCatman]

I just watched a podcast on outro health about managing anxiety and one of the things they talked about was the importance of sleep and limiting your blue light sources at night before bed. One thing suggested by the speaker was to get a set of blue blocking glasses to wear at night before bed which I thought was an awesome idea and so I just bought a pair on Amazon and here is the link in case anybody wants to take a look and get a pair for themselves and they also make ones that look like regular glasses as well but apparently the tinted ones work a little better.

 

Spectra479 - 99.9% Blue Blocking Amber Glasses for Sleep - Medium Adult Size Nighttime Eye Wear - Special Orange Tinted Glasses Help You Sleep & Relax Your Eyes (Amber) https://a.co/d/g5zcHyt

[Chompoo]

Just had another bad night of insomnia. Usually I would fall asleep pretty quickly once I laid down in bed. Yesterday, I couldn't fall asleep even though I had laid in bed for hours. I probably slept 2 hours in total. I think it is likely due to the high sugar desserts I had yesterday. Sugar is a brain fuel and produces glutamate among other things. And glutamate is a neurotransmitter that keeps us awake.

"Sugar is the brain's main fuel source and once there, the molecule is broken down and used to create new molecules such as glutamine, glutamate, and GABA, each with an important role in influencing the activation of neurons in the brain and nervous system."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/02/230202153602.htm#:~:text=Sugar is the brain's main,the brain and nervous system.

If you have insomnia, it would be a good idea to keep to a low sugar diet.

[Onmyway]

@Chompoo, while it may be a good idea to cut sugar in general, it would be wrong to try to optimize brain chemistry simply because all these chemicals do not work in isolation and we don't know enough to do such optimization. In fact, surprisingly, we know very little about brain chemistry. You can find research saying anything in nutrition. Pls don't drive yourself crazy trying to pinpoint the reason for each issue. You might just be in a wave. 

[RobertZ]

Vitamins to avoid before bedtime:

 

 

[ElaineM]

I struggled so so bad with sleep but have finally came across what is helping me so so much. I currently take magnesium l-threonate (life extension sells it as neuromag). This was a GAME CHANGER. I was and am still taking magnesium glycinate but was sleeping awful and this was so so helpful. A doctor told me it calms the brain and the glycinate calms muscles. I needed a calm brain. I was still waking up though and would be awake for hours sometime so I added 3 mg of time release melatonin! (on here they say less melatonin is sometimes better but honestly I dont think that worked well for me) I also am drinking lemon balm tea at night! Something is certainly helping. So if you are struggling  please give this stuff a try! especially the magnesium. Also if you need a natural products that is kinda like a natural antidepressant e-mail me at the email in description. I can’t talk about it on here since I sell it but it has worked so well for some people.

[Brenmos]

I’ve been using Dr Teal’s sleep spray with melatonin since August 4th and I really feel like it’s working. It’s has lavender and chamomile essential oils as well. It’s doesn’t list any active ingredients in milligrams. I’m not sure how smelling melatonin along with lavender and chamomile works but it is.

[Catina7]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I wanted to share a tip that I found on the internet awhile back and I thought it was simple yet brilliant.  I've actually tried it myself and it really does work!  

 

• While trying to get to sleep, blink your eyes rapidly and continuously....as long as you can.  Just focus on the blinking while breathing slowly and deeply. You'll find that as time goes on it will become harder and your eyes will start to feel heavy and eventually close altogether.  Sometimes I've even counted backwards from 1,000 while doing the blinking and breathing.

 

Also, there is something called Cognitive Restructuring Techniques (I think it's been mentioned here already), but here's a handy PDF guide that has some great tips:

 

• Cognitive Restructuring Techniques PDF

[guile2]

Purchased some organic valerin root for about $20 1 pound from frontier coop. Made me drowsy and felt psyically tired. Ive stayed up all nignt most my life. No side effects i could tell. 

[RobertZ]

Since I started tapering, I've been keeping a sleep journal to help guide my taper. Going through my notes today, I discovered that my sleep is consistently worse during full moon. I hate superstition more than anything else and if somebody told me that moon phases affect sleep, I'd think they are crazy. But my 6 months' worth of notes seem to prove just that -- based on my anecdotal (and well documented) experience.

[ElaineM]

I don’t believe in superstition, but there are a few science reasons it could be after a quick google search…the extra light, gravity pull, electromagnetism. 

[Ma205]

On 3/27/2011 at 12:36 PM, Altostrata said:

I developed that frequent nighttime peeing when my sleep totally deteriorated.

 

Theory is that an unnaturally high level of cortisol, the daytime hormone, at night interferes with your body's production of vasopressin. Vasopressin is a nighttime hormone that tells the body to concentrate urine so you can sleep.

 

There is a synthetic vasopressin nasal spray that is given to children with bedwetting problems. I discussed using this with my doctor and he said he didn't want to try it because he thought the frequency of peeing was a marker for the elevated cortisol, and he wanted to watch it.

 

In fact, my frequency of peeing at night has decreased as my sleep has gotten better. On bad nights, when I will also feel anxiety, it will be every hour. On good nights, every few hours. On the best nights, maybe once or twice a night.

 

Stan, here's some information about your sleep pattern: Cortisol, being a daytime hormone, starts rising about 4:30 a.m. It peaks around dawn -- which is when some of us feel that morning burst of anxiety or panic -- then declines a bit to the daytime level.

 

(Blocking out light to the bedroom helps blunt the effect of the morning cortisol jump.)

 

When it declines, that may be when you feel a bit sleepy again. I know I do.

 

this is over a decade old! But I am curious if you have any idea regarding my quite opposite urination issue. I drink a lot of water all day. I go to bed, can’t sleep. Wake up in the morning and urinate a super tiny amount of very dark urine. Within an hour or two I’m going pee every 15-20 minutes large amounts of much clearer urine. You mentioned decreased vasopressin causing increased urination at night. Could I have a deficiency? I am now decreasing to 2-4 hours of sleep a night but stay in bed for 8 and start with cortisol/adrenaline rush between 2-4. This urination issue has been happening since February. 

[Altostrata]

Given your hormonal issues, speculating about the cause of any of your symptoms is beyond the capacity of peer support here.

[SleepPls009]

Hi all! Does anyone have any recommendations for good, relaxing activities to do in the hours before bedtime (within roughly a 4 hour window of falling asleep)? 

 

I find that any activity that requires attention ends up waking up my entire system - I tried sorting/putting away some old items I'd kept in a storage box last night, and found that what I thought would be a gentle, mindless activity ended up activating me quite a bit, and made it more difficult to calm down/get ready to sleep. It seems that my system is very sensitive to any sort of activation. I'll also note that I can't watch TV right now; for some reason it causes very uncomfortable agitation/anxiety. Reading seems to cause issues, as well. 

 

I reserve the last two hours of the night for relaxation and de-stimulation, but I find it very difficult to do that for a full four hours before going to bed. Any recommendations from your own experience would be greatly appreciated! 

[Altostrata]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:34 AM, Ma205 said:

 

this is over a decade old! But I am curious if you have any idea regarding my quite opposite urination issue. I drink a lot of water all day. I go to bed, can’t sleep. Wake up in the morning and urinate a super tiny amount of very dark urine. Within an hour or two I’m going pee every 15-20 minutes large amounts of much clearer urine. You mentioned decreased vasopressin causing increased urination at night. Could I have a deficiency? I am now decreasing to 2-4 hours of sleep a night but stay in bed for 8 and start with cortisol/adrenaline rush between 2-4. This urination issue has been happening since February. 

 

If you're asking me, @Ma205, I haven't any idea. Urology is not one of my knowledge domains.

 

@SleepPls009 See

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[Heath]

1 hour ago, SleepPls009 said:

Hi all! Does anyone have any recommendations for good, relaxing activities to do in the hours before bedtime (within roughly a 4 hour window of falling asleep)? 

 

I find that any activity that requires attention ends up waking up my entire system - I tried sorting/putting away some old items I'd kept in a storage box last night, and found that what I thought would be a gentle, mindless activity ended up activating me quite a bit, and made it more difficult to calm down/get ready to sleep. It seems that my system is very sensitive to any sort of activation. I'll also note that I can't watch TV right now; for some reason it causes very uncomfortable agitation/anxiety. Reading seems to cause issues, as well. 

 

I reserve the last two hours of the night for relaxation and de-stimulation, but I find it very difficult to do that for a full four hours before going to bed. Any recommendations from your own experience would be greatly appreciated! 

Read books. If you look at screens wear those block out glasses for blue light . Get ear buds and listen to white noise or rain sounds. Honest guys on YouTube. Or the calm app has these also. 
I have played sudoku or solitaire on my phone screen before and it would put me to sleep when I was keyed up. Read something. Also listen to stories that’s on calm app too or audible. 

[JanCarol]

I've been studying TCM (Chinese Medicine) which talks about "excess in the brain."  That sounds a lot like racing thoughts, etc.  

 

According to TCM, you need to "drain" the brain before sleep.

 

One method is to circle your ankles 100 times each direction.  The count turns out to be meditative, and I've always fallen asleep either during or directly after.  (often, 50 is enough each way).

 

Another thing they talk about is inclined bed therapy.  Just lift the head of the bed 2".  Not enough that it throws you to the foot of the bed, just enough to "drain the brain."

 

It's been years since I've visited this thread - so wanted to add my newest tips & practices.

[Bird90]

I have an unusual issue in that I can fall asleep pretty easily, but then I will wake up after an hour or two and be unable to fall asleep for hours, usually passing out around dawnish and waking up around noon.

[Onmyway]

Hi @Bird90, this is actually the common pattern in WD. Do you wake up with anxiety or terror? 

[Bird90]

@Onmyway Not so far, no.

[DaBro]

I found Magnesium Glycinate helped me to stay asleep. Less of those 3:30am wake ups. 
 

the brain drain theory makes sense too as I often found I’d get to sleep if I moved from my bed to being curled up in my comfy love chair and put it down to my head being above my body. I’ve been reading that during sleep there is chemical flushing of the brain going on to clean out and reset the brain for the new day so elevating the head can only help. 
 

interesting. 

[ardyes]

Has anyone tried using a weighted blanket for sleep? I have had some improvements using one. 

[Altostrata]

Please also use site search to see the many posts about using a weighted blanket.

 

[getofflex]

I've discovered a new help for my sleep.  You can buy a stuffed animal that is stuffed with lavender and flax seeds.  You warm it in a microwave, and lay it on your chest.  The weight, plus the lavender fragrance, are very helpful for sleep.  @KenAsuggested this to me, and it helps him a lot, and it has helped me, too.  I find it very comforting.  Some have chamomile scents.  Some hug you back.  

[getofflex]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:22 AM, RobertZ said:

Since I started tapering, I've been keeping a sleep journal to help guide my taper. Going through my notes today, I discovered that my sleep is consistently worse during full moon. I hate superstition more than anything else and if somebody told me that moon phases affect sleep, I'd think they are crazy

Actually, the full moon affecting your sleep may be scientific, and not just superstitious.  After all, the moon affects the tides, and that is scientific, so it could also affect our nervous systems.  

[Seaweedbrain]

Over the past 7 months I’ve been trying to monitor my insomnia and it appears whenever I wake up it’s accompanied by rapid heartbeat/heart palpitations. Sounds like maybe caused by cortisol waves. Has anyone healed from ssri induced insomnia? I heard someone claim it might last a lifetime

[Seaweedbrain]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:14 PM, Bird90 said:

I have an unusual issue in that I can fall asleep pretty easily, but then I will wake up after an hour or two and be unable to fall asleep for hours, usually passing out around dawnish and waking up around noon.

I have the same issue I believe. Whenever I fall asleep I would wake again usually around 3am and then wake every hour or so, often not being able yo fall back asleep after 5am. I’ve been placed on a waiting list for a sleep study at a clinic, don’t know if the results will shed light on possible endocrinological issues being the cause.

[KenA]

Sounds like WD induced cortisol bursts to me. I had them for quite a long time. But they will eventually go away. I'm back to sleeping normal again every night. Just have to keep giving your brain and CNS time to heal. Just hang in there, it gets better.

[RobertZ]

4 hours ago, Seaweedbrain said:

Sounds like maybe caused by cortisol waves. Has anyone healed from ssri induced insomnia? I heard someone claim it might last a lifetime

Could be cortisol. I had my morning cortisol tested some time ago and it was close to the upper limit of the reference range. My sleep has recovered somewhat since then and still keeps improving as I taper. Based on my personal experience, I don't think insomnia lasts a lifetime.

[wantrelief]

I have practiced gratitude throughout withdrawal but this is an interesting approach to using it to help with sleep.  I have started to use this technique when I wake up in the early morning hours and I think it has helped me get back to sleep or at least rest more comfortably with less anxiety. Hopefully others find it helpful too!

 

 

[Rhernan]

Hi all, been off Mirtazepine after a long slow taper since July 2022 (so 7 months) and instead of my symptoms improving they are becoming worse and worse, my sleep being the most dramatically affected.  I am unable to get more than 1 hr sleep a night and it’s been 2 weeks.  I’m unable to nap as my body won’t allow it.

 

This is what is happening to me, I start to fall asleep but have a rush if adrenaline of cortisol that comes into my head and wakes me up followed by nausea, tingling through my body, dizziness, heart palps and a severe increase in anxiety. I also suffer from jerks and random twitches as well. It takes about 1/2 hr to resolve and then happens over and over again.

 

I am left depleted and very sick now from lack of sleep.  I don’t drink alcohol or caffeine, I don’t eat gluten or processed foods and I start a bedtime routine an hour before sleep.  I am at a total and complete loss as to what step to take next.  I’ve had a sleep study, labs, an MRI of my head and neck and all is clear.

 

please, can anyone relate? I’ve read the tips in the topics section and tried it all…will this workout with time, I feel I’m the only one this bad and won’t recover..

[DaBro]

3 hours ago, Rhernan said:

Hi all, been off Mirtazepine after a long slow taper since July 2022 (so 7 months) and instead of my symptoms improving they are becoming worse and worse, my sleep being the most dramatically affected.  I am unable to get more than 1 hr sleep a night and it’s been 2 weeks.  I’m unable to nap as my body won’t allow it.

 

This is what is happening to me, I start to fall asleep but have a rush if adrenaline of cortisol that comes into my head and wakes me up followed by nausea, tingling through my body, dizziness, heart palps and a severe increase in anxiety. I also suffer from jerks and random twitches as well. It takes about 1/2 hr to resolve and then happens over and over again.

 

I am left depleted and very sick now from lack of sleep.  I don’t drink alcohol or caffeine, I don’t eat gluten or processed foods and I start a bedtime routine an hour before sleep.  I am at a total and complete loss as to what step to take next.  I’ve had a sleep study, labs, an MRI of my head and neck and all is clear.

 

please, can anyone relate? I’ve read the tips in the topics section and tried it all…will this workout with time, I feel I’m the only one this bad and won’t recover..

sounds very familiar, including the twitches, palpitations and adrenaline rush. Fortunately it did improve with time for me but I do get bad spells and it’s horrible. I had an mri too. All ok. 
 

only additional tip I’ve seen more of lately is to elevate your head - try sleeping in a comfy chair. Apparently there is some physical draining that takes place in your head and sitting upright can help this process and aid sleep. It helps for me. 

[Rhernan]

2 minutes ago, DaBro said:

sounds very familiar, including the twitches, palpitations and adrenaline rush. Fortunately it did improve with time for me but I do get bad spells and it’s horrible. I had an mri too. All ok. 
 

only additional tip I’ve seen more of lately is to elevate your head - try sleeping in a comfy chair. Apparently there is some physical draining that takes place in your head and sitting upright can help this process and aid sleep. It helps for me. 

Oh thank you for confirming all of this! My sleep (when I do sleep) also is very toxic feeling…is that normal.

 

And yes, I’ll look into sleeping more upright!  Makes a bit of sense!

[KenA]

3 hours ago, Rhernan said:

This is what is happening to me, I start to fall asleep but have a rush if adrenaline of cortisol that comes into my head and wakes me up followed by nausea, tingling through my body, dizziness, heart palps and a severe increase in anxiety. I also suffer from jerks and random twitches as well. It takes about 1/2 hr to resolve and then happens over and over again

This used to happen to me as well. It just took lots of time to resolve itself. But it did eventually go away and now days I sleep extremely well.

[DaBro]

20 minutes ago, Rhernan said:

Oh thank you for confirming all of this! My sleep (when I do sleep) also is very toxic feeling…is that normal.

 

And yes, I’ll look into sleeping more upright!  Makes a bit of sense!

yes it makes sense. I think it’s light/REM sleep rather than deep sleep. I found Magnesium Glycinate helped improve quality and length of sleep but was not an aid in getting to sleep. 
 

I kind of know now when I’m going to have a bad night and take Glycinate then. Sometimes when I can’t sleep I take a hot shower and sit on the floor letting the water massage my head. Not sure if it helps but it does feel nice.