labrat15: introduction

[labrat15]

You take away my coffee habit and we got a serious problem. I swear to god after I get off this crap and get stable I am going to get these horrific human beings. I'm booking an appointment with my doctor and I'm bring my lawyer down with me and I'm going to give that guy the scare of his life. I can't wait.

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, labrat15 said:

I think I am going to cut coffee out as well.

 

I switched to decaf and still enjoy having a coffee with no caffeine.  It's only a minor change and not worth getting angry about, especially if not having caffeine will help you to feel better than you do now.  Just an easy change for a benefit.  If you drink a lot of caffeine now then you might want to do a gradually change otherwise you can experience withdrawal.  Are you drinking any other caffeine containing beverages?  Cola, Mountain Dew, and there are some others, or energy drinks.

[UnfoldingSky]

Hey labrat, how are you doing?  I was reading the past few pages of your thread and noticed you said you were moving. How is it going? We're moving too, and the stress of it all is really frying my nerves.  

 

[labrat15]

@ChessieCat Sorry was not checking posts. No just coffee but I don't think it is making any difference actually. It never did for me with prior tapers and I have been having some good days recently without changing my coffee intake. I don't think the coffee is helping me obviously but I don't think it is making that big of an impact and I'm not really into withdrawing off another substance at this point. I seem to be making progress as I have had good days here and there. Yesterday I felt better than usual but today I am not feeling great but it is not the worst I have felt. I'm still getting cortisol spikes in the morning but I seem to be levelling out by noon the latest. I'm feeling motivated by the good days I have been having but still a little concerned with how brutal this last taper has been.    

[labrat15]

 @UnfoldingSky The move set me off and I felt worse than I ever had for 2 weeks. I had to drive 12 hours on ice and move a bunch of stuff in which was probably not the greatest thing to do while in the middle of a taper but I had to get it done. On a positive note though, I am happy with the place I got but I wish I could have done it while feeling a bit better. I might actually go back to my moms place to finish recovering because I really don't want to stay here by myself and make a bunch of bad new memories in a new place. Thats partly why I moved into a new place to begin with. I've been having some good days though so we'll see. Thanks for asking.

 

Are you still tapering or are you completely off your meds? I couldn't find your introduction for some reason. 

 

 

[labrat15]

I had 3 days of feeling better recently but I have slipped back into a wave. I was still not close to being 100 percent functional for those 3 days but it was definitely an improvement. I have been bed ridden for the last 2 days but those 3 days must be a sign that I am recovering. I thought I was through it and that it was uphill from here after having those 3 days of feeling better but that is not the case I guess. I really hope I can make a full recovery...

[UnfoldingSky]

On 12/4/2022 at 3:55 PM, labrat15 said:

 @UnfoldingSky The move set me off and I felt worse than I ever had for 2 weeks. I had to drive 12 hours on ice and move a bunch of stuff in which was probably not the greatest thing to do while in the middle of a taper but I had to get it done. On a positive note though, I am happy with the place I got but I wish I could have done it while feeling a bit better. I might actually go back to my moms place to finish recovering because I really don't want to stay here by myself and make a bunch of bad new memories in a new place. Thats partly why I moved into a new place to begin with. I've been having some good days though so we'll see. Thanks for asking.

 

Are you still tapering or are you completely off your meds? I couldn't find your introduction for some reason. 

 

 

 

I'm off the pills, thankfully. How is the new place going, did you move back to your Mom's? We're still in the process of moving, it's such a pain...I can't imagine driving twelve hours on ice in a withdrawal, no wonder you felt so terrible.  The best I ever managed was a few hours in summer during acute with restlessness coming and going, kind of a nightmare really. No way could I manage a drive on ice for that long though.

[UnfoldingSky]

On 12/10/2022 at 2:32 PM, labrat15 said:

I had 3 days of feeling better recently but I have slipped back into a wave. I was still not close to being 100 percent functional for those 3 days but it was definitely an improvement. I have been bed ridden for the last 2 days but those 3 days must be a sign that I am recovering. I thought I was through it and that it was uphill from here after having those 3 days of feeling better but that is not the case I guess. I really hope I can make a full recovery...

 

Well I know it won't feel it if the wave is still going on but, if you had a few good days that is a hopeful sign.  

[labrat15]

Yeh the new place is good got some new furniture and it’s coming along but I’m going back to my moms in a couple days and just going to stay there until I feel better.  I’m flying this time so hopefully it doesn’t set me back. 
 

Yeh I mean having some good days is definitely a good sign but this last taper has been a totally different experience. Usually once I started having good days I would level out pretty quickly but this taper has been really up and down and lasted far longer than any of my previous tapers. I think I tapered to much and over did it plus the stress of buying a house and moving. That drive really took a toll on me.
 

It’s been about 4 months of feeling terrible but the last month there has been some positive days so hopefully I level out here soon. 
 

Did you go back to normal after getting off your meds? At this point I have my doubts that I’ll get back to 100 percent but I would settle for a 80 to 90% recovery…

[labrat15]

I have been having 2 day periods of feeling better but I have slipped into another wave. I went for a bike ride 2 days ago while I was feeling better so I don't know if that is what made me go back into a wave or what. With prior tapers I was able to bike and it didn't affect me so I don't know what is going on. I am definitely losing tolerance to these waves and it doesn't seem that the waves are getting any less severe. I don't know if the waves are supposed to get less severe over time or if what I am experiencing is normal but when I go back into a wave its as bad as ever. It has to be good news that I am getting 2 day periods of feeling better but I am still scared and feel hopeless when in a wave. I really hope I recover.

[labrat15]

Should I not be biking for the next while? I have seen some post of people saying that exercise triggers waves. Will I be able to bike and exercise ever again? That would be horrific if I can never exercise I have played sports all my life and it is a huge part of my life.  @ChessieCat

[lfran]

I have been wondering the same thing. I will have periods of feeling slightly better (although the OCD-like symptoms/rumination stays) but these waves are hitting worse than ever. I also feel like I’m losing “tolerance” to them as I enter my third year of this journey. I want to know if it is normal for the waves to stay this severe or if they become less intense either gradually or suddenly. 
 

I think at this point in your recovery process physical activity can reach a threshold where it becomes too strenuous for the CNS. Maybe try going a bit gentler for now. It’s also ok to occasionally test the waters by trying more strenuous exercise every now and again to see how you tolerate it. There’s also the possibility that it may not be the exercise causing the waves but something you ate, watched, experienced, etc.- or it could have been just a random part of the healing. I have found that there is seemingly no rhyme or reason for many of my waves, while I’ve picked up on consistent causes to avoid as well. 
 

You are going to recover, and there will be a time in the future where you are enjoying intense physical activity again. I know that you will. This is temporary- don’t give up. 

[labrat15]

Thanks for the post. As long as I recover I can tolerate this I just need to know if I will or not. I need to be able to exercise and live a normal life because there would be no point in going though this suffering if I will not be able to do these things. If I will not be able to do these things then I would kind of like to know.

 

Im not certain it was the biking but I'm thinking it was because today has been worse than ever and this has happened twice now during this last taper after I went for a bike. Before going for the bike I was starting make progress. It could be a random wave but honestly people here have been reporting waves after strenuous exercise so I'm thinking it was probably the biking. I'm going to be safe and wait until I make significant process and stay that way for a while before I try biking again because today and yesterday has been intolerable.

[labrat15]

I just don't understand what is going on. My prior tapers would last 2 months max and then I would start feeling better and I did like 10 tapers before this one and the recovery period was consistent. This last withdrawal has lasted 4 months and still going on. It doesn't make any sense and I am worried that my body has lost all resiliency and I have suffered some sort of permanent damage to my nervous system. If this lasts longer than 6 months I am considering reinstating a small amount of Rexulti or trying a small amount Lamictal because I don't know what else to do.

[labrat15]

Any suggestions are very appreciated because I need to have some sort of plan B.

[UnfoldingSky]

labrat, exercise intolerance can happen in withdrawal but you can recover from it.  I could have problems with exercise in acute withdrawal but this did improve. You might try gentle walking for a time.   Don't lose hope that you'll never play sports again I really doubt that will happen.  

[UnfoldingSky]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:24 PM, labrat15 said:

I just don't understand what is going on. My prior tapers would last 2 months max and then I would start feeling better and I did like 10 tapers before this one and the recovery period was consistent. This last withdrawal has lasted 4 months and still going on. It doesn't make any sense and I am worried that my body has lost all resiliency and I have suffered some sort of permanent damage to my nervous system. If this lasts longer than 6 months I am considering reinstating a small amount of Rexulti or trying a small amount Lamictal because I don't know what else to do.

 

Are you still on the Lexapro?  

[labrat15]

Ok thanks @UnfoldingSky. I did just have a 3 day period of feeling a lot better. I went for walks and felt noticeably better but half way through the day yesterday I started feeling crappy again and woke up today and I'm having a cortisol spikes again but the 3 day period of feeling good is encouraging for sure.  

[labrat15]

I'm still on 5 mg of lexapro and 0.075 mg of rexulti. I'm not touching anything for a year.

[labrat15]

Yeh I am definitely back in a wave. Didn't get the cortisol spike in the morning today but shortly after waking up I started feeling dizzy and started getting feelings of impending doom at around noon which is becoming a pattern while I'm in a wave. It has to be good news that I am getting windows of feeling good but it gets to me because every time I go into a window I hope that it is finally over. Usually once I got my first window I would level out pretty quickly but like I have said before, this last taper has been a different animal. Just going to stop getting my hopes up when I get a window. 

 

I went for a walk today which is good. I felt horrible but whatever I did it.

[UnfoldingSky]

Sorry to hear you're back in it again.  Even if symptoms haven't gone completely it is still a really good sign to be getting windows of feeling better.    I know it can get demoralizing when the window ends, but I expect you will get another. 

 

[NeDaytoDayMJ]

Hi labrat thanks for checking on my thread.  I’m sorry you are running into issues.  It seems like the last taper has been hard to get through.  I wish you peace and harmony to make it.  You got this.  We have been doing this for way to long but we will get better.  
I am not close to being back to my old self.  I am better than I was 6 months ago.  This gives me hope.  It is such a long brutal process.  I hate it.  
Let’s make it through Jan and see what Feb has in store.  

[labrat15]

Thanks for the replies @UnfoldingSky and @NeDaytoDayMJ. This is really horrific this time around and its really nice to have some people to talk to. I'm trying to be a little more positive. I see some people including myself that stay really negative and I don't think that helps anyone so I'm trying to stay away from that thinking. Its only been 4 and a half months so I guess that is normal. Never lasted this long for me but I guess this is more the norm.

 

Hard not to wonder if you have been permanently damaged in some way but all this stuff that I am experiencing fits the description of Post Acute Withdrawal rather than some other cause like TBI and everything I read about PAWS says that most people recover within a 6 to 24 month period with some experiencing symptoms for longer than that and I'm not even at 6 months yet. I'm going to commit to biking everyday even if I feel like crap. I don't actually think it was responsible for the waves I think I was going into a wave regardless because I went for a bike yesterday and felt better after and don't feel any worse today. Exercise is so good for mental health so I think it will help this process. 

[lfran]

I think the “permanently damaged” fear is very normal.. a sign your suffering is great. However your good days are proof you are healing. I went months and months without good days and now I’m getting them. It’s very encouraging that you’re having them already. Keep going slow, it seems to be paying off. Lay low and be gentle with yourself; your next window is just around the corner.  Most importantly, don’t believe the negative thoughts- they aren’t you, they are the withdrawal. 

[labrat15]

Thanks @lfran . I think I have figured out what is going on. With my prior tapers I had used Sudafed to deal with the withdrawal symptoms. It was a fluke that I found it helped out for me as I was using it for an allergy flare up but every time I used it during a taper my symptoms would last no more than 2 months. Sudafed is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor and people tapering off dopamine agonists have had success with taking a reuptake inhibitor. I have tried to stay away from it this time because of the stuff I have read about Sudafed on this site but I have found  success stories of people using dextroamphetamine which is a more powerful amphetamine and based on my past experience, it reduced my recovery time significantly. I am going to start taking it again for a couple weeks and see how it goes. 

[labrat15]

I just wasn't sure if the Sudafed was actually making the withdrawal period longer so I tried a taper without taking it but at this point this last taper has lasted over twice as long and still ongoing and the only thing that is different this time is that I have not been taking Sudafed. There are other dugs that act as dopamine reuptake inhibitors but seeing that I have success with Sudafed I'm going to stick with that for now and see how it goes. I took some Sudafed an hour ago and I already feel like 50 percent better. Only problem is that I withdrawal off of the Sudafed after I stop taking it but it lasts only about 4 to 5 days. 

[lfran]

That's interesting about the Sudafed. I've never heard of that before. Whatever works for you! I think it is very smart to take tolerance breaks from it like you did. This should prevent your brain from becoming dependent on it and thus avoid a different type of withdrawal. Keep fighting! You're doing great.

[labrat15]

The Sudafed is without a doubt working. I've taken it that last 3 days and I am at about 80 percent functioning. Have gone for an hour and a half bike everyday and a walk after. My face is way less puffy and certain symptoms have gone away. Only thing negative that I have noticed is I wake up really groggy and get a bit of a cortisol spike but based on my past experience that resolves. I am just going to keep taking it for the next 2 weeks or until I'm 100 better. I'm glad I tried not taking it with this prior taper because now I know for sure that it helps me tremendously. I tried taking a Benadryl 2 days ago and I could tell right away that I could not tolerate it but the Sudafed is a life saver for me.

[labrat15]

Went into another wave. I thought the Sudafed would have stopped this but it has not. I felt really good for 4 days to the point where I was going on hour and a half bikes and walks after but the last 2 days have been just as bad as any wave. The window period has increased from 2 days to 4 now so that must be good. I'm going to wait for another window and see if it lasts 4 days again but I'm just going to keep taking the Sudafed for another 2 weeks to see what happens. It still reduces symptoms when I take it but I am definitely getting cortisol spikes in the morning again.

 

    

[labrat15]

The good news is that the PSSD has improved significantly. I still seem to get waves of PSSD symptoms but most of the time everything is working fine. 

[labrat15]

I was coming out of the wave yesterday but I think I took an extra dose of my SSRI by accident. I didn't do my weekly pill organizer this week and thought I missed my dose so I took it last night and started feeling dizzy and disoriented which continued through to this morning so I think I must have taken it. Really dumb mistake so I don't know if that is the cause for the symptoms or what but I got lazy and didn't organize my pills for this week. Yesterday was going pretty decently though so seems like the waves are getting shorter. 

 

I recently contacted RxIsk to just see if they could do anything for me and to ask questions about Sudafed potentially being a way to jump start dopamine receptors and Dr. Healy actually got back to me which was surprise. I didn't even know he worked there but he told me that a consult from them would be a waste of my money. I emailed him back asking some questions about the Sudafed so we'll see what he says but it is undeniable that the Sudafed is reducing symptoms for me. As far as making the withdrawal period shorter its not really clear yet but this last taper is the only time I have not used any Sudafed and it has lasted over twice as long and not taking Sudafed is the only thing I have changed compared to prior tapers. 

[labrat15]

Yeh so its been about 2 weeks and I feel like 100 times better. I have been pretty stable for the last week with no waves and a lot of my symptoms have completely gone away or are a lot better. I've seen people have bad experiences with Sudafed on this site so I don't know if this is just a personal thing but I have without a doubt improved significantly while using it to the point where I'm biking everyday and going for walks and being able to function doing life things and I seem to be getting better and better. In my experience, when I got to the point where I felt 100 percent normal while taking the Sudafed I would stop taking it and experience like 3 to 4 days of some withdrawal which isn't near as bad as getting off these antidepressants and then I would be fine so I'm going to take it for another week and see where I'm at and look at getting off it.  

[UnfoldingSky]

Hey labrat, 

 

Is the Sudafed still working for you?  Good to hear you had some positive days and were able to get out biking. 

[labrat15]

Yeh but it is losing its effectiveness I think. For 2 weeks I was biking and going for walks and stuff but last 3 days have not been great. Not near as bad as what my bad days were before taking the Sudafed but I do think it is losing its effectiveness. I going to stop taking it tomorrow and give myself a couple weeks to see. Worst case I will just start taking it again but I would like to see where I am at without taking anything. Also been dealing with financial stuff so that is maybe why I am not feeling great but I definitely think I am developing a tolerance to the Sudafed. If I still need it to function I am going to use it more sparingly and no more than a week at a time I think. @UnfoldingSky

[labrat15]

I’ve actually lost 8 pounds to which is really good. I gained a lot of weight while on these antidepressants and I am close to my weight before getting on these drugs. Sudafed is probably not the healthiest way to lose weight but I’m not complaining lol. Hopefully it stays off when I get off it but I should be biking a lot by then. 

[labrat15]

Yeh didn't take any sudafed today and did not feel great at all so I'm going to taper off it to see where I'm at. Hopefully I have progressed. Not gonna lie though, when I took it with prior tapers I would know right away that I was feeling better and could get off it. I would wake up and would not get cortisol spikes and feel good throughout the day. I am still getting cortisol spikes and do not get any relief until I take the Sudafed so I don't think I'm out of this yet. It will be good to get off the sudafed to see where I'm at but like I said, worst case scenario I will start taking sudafed again so that I can bike and go for walks and stuff and will just use it sparingly and not for long periods. Being able to bike and go for walks has helped my motivation and mental state significantly so that alone makes taking the sudafed worth it but it is definitely not the greatest thing to take especially long term but whatever I think the pros outweigh the cons.