Emma86: Trying to heal after heavy withdrawal Lorazepam

[Altostrata]

Are you doing better on your old brand of mirtazapine? If so, you can continue to take that. If you have to change brands, you might save some tablets to make a gradual change to the new brand.

[Emma86]

@altostrata

 

Thank you! Yes the old brand is much better I have had no problems  thank you!

[Emma86]

@Frogie

@Altostrata

Hey hope your well guys!

 

Wondered if you had any advice... Im speaking to my Phyc in a few days. The old brand of mirt went back to being ok no problems.

 

My worry is the amount of time its going to take coming of the Quetiapine currently on 100mg

 

As I am on the 0.5 ativan, I would be taking the ativan all that time and worry for tolerance? But in the pollydrugging it says its ok to leave the benzo. Do you think it's worth going down on this bit ? Whilst im stable on the 100mg quetiapine and 30mg Mirt. If so how would I go down on it? Water taper...

 

Also the Phyc has said to do the quetiapine first then the benzo then the mirt. 

 

The mirt is more stimulating at 30 mg so that also worries me once the quetiapine has gone as that is a brake. 

 

The quetiapine I take is XR I am having to take one 50mg XR then the rest 25mg instants but they Are a different brand. As I am taking a generic XR and they don't have it in instant. I have not started this yet and worried this will cause withdrawal effects, maybe the benzo is useful for. 

 

But again worried about tolerance of the benzo if on it for months again.. as was on it before for months. However only reached tolerance once I was in withdrawal. 

 

Any advice welcomed. I know iv asked these things similar before but needed a recap of reassurance especially on the benzo.. as if I could function on like half of the 0.5 that would be better right? whilst I taper off the Quetiapine .. would it make my gaba receptors heal somewhat in tapering it lower? XXXX

[Frogie]

@Emma86

 

Because you are going off so many other drugs I would leave the Ativan alone at this time. He can help through the wd of the other medications.

 

Let me know if you need anything else. I'll be happy to help.😊

[Emma86]

@Frogie thank you! I really appreciate ! XXXXX

[Frogie]

@Emma86

 

No problem, glad I could help.

[Altostrata]

Why do you think 30mg mirtazapine is stimulating? What times o'clock do you take each of your drugs, with their dosages?

 

Quetiapine is far worse for you than Ativan or mirtazapine. You have a long ways to go with that before you need to worry about tapering the other drugs.

 

 

[Emma86]

@Altostrata thank you for your response greatly appreciated! 
it’s others and research on the drug says  at higher dosages it’s less sedating with the mirtazipine.. I take it at night. And sleep well

! As you get lower on its said it’s more sedating at 15mg and 30mg works more on depression. So was wanting to keep the more sedating affect. Was worried going off the quetiapine a big brake and left with mirt at 30mg might be very revving. But I have no idea.. 

 

the quetiapine is a terrible drug! Thank you for validating this to me. It’s been rough going down on it. It certainly binds to many receptors. 
 

it is certainly the first! Thank you. And I’m glad my phyc agrees too! 
 

my next move….
Im nervous about introducing instant release from a different brand. But Iv asked everywhere no where does the 25mg instants in the brand I’m taking now. Zentiva
 

taking 50XR 2 at night currently. 
So plan to take 1 50XR current brand and 2 25mg IR in the different brand to get used to this before tapering to 90mg? does this sound sensible.

 

there was talk of cutting my original XR tablets.. but lots of people say you can’t cut? I’m not sure what’s safer doing that 

 

or taking the different brand instants.. which are from accord. 
they are £75 for a month 

the 50XR is £20 for a month! 
 

how they say there’s no difference in brands I don’t get it! 
 

I Take it all at night.. 

maybe a good idea to take one in the morning? To spread the dosage dump.. 
 

im scared to do it. This drug really gives me the strangest symptoms going down 😅😅 

 

again thank you! 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, Emma86 said:

So plan to take 1 50XR current brand and 2 25mg IR in the different brand to get used to this

 

You can split a 50mg XR tablet, but the pieces will be IR and you cannot make a liquid from them because they're held together by a glue.

 

Since you're taking 100mg per day, what you might do is take a 50mg XR tablet and 3/4 of a 50mg XR tablet (37.5mg) later in the day for your next reduction, to 87.5mg per day. That probably will be close enough.

 

For the following reduction, you could take a 50mg XR tablet and 1/2 of a 50mg XR tablet (25mg) later in the day, for 75mg per day. After that, suggest you acquire the 25mg IR tablets for more gradual tapering.

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times o'clock do you take each of your drugs, with their dosages?

 

[Emma86]

@Altostrata

Thank you! I usually take it all at night do you mean to change the times due to the dosage change? Howcome to take one earlier in the day? to spread out the effect..  just checking thanks for the amounts to go down by as would be able to cut thoughs
 

So once at the 75mg to change to instant from here. 
 

As I was thinking it would be complicated to then once at 50Mg to go back to XR again if I’d been taking the instants as well. So I see what your saying. 
 

when on the 75mg instant how to spread that out.. the same like you say a bit earlier in the day? then a bit later.. 
 

 

thank you! 

 

[Altostrata]

What times o'clock do you take each of your drugs, with their dosages? What is your daily drug schedule?

[Emma86]

@Altostrata

So I take the Ativan in the morning at 10/11am I take 0.25 

 

I take the other bit of Ativan 0.25 5/6pm

 

I take the mirtazipine 30mg and the quetiapine 100mg just before I sleep at 22/23pm 

 

I get night munchies.. I am cutting out bread and cheese but in the night I seem to get up half asleep and eat these things.

 

think the mirt and quetiapine 

 

xxx

[Altostrata]

Mirtazapine is notorious for stimulating appetite. Suggest you taper off quetiapine, then mirtazapine.

[Emma86]

@Altostrata will the benzo hold all that time? 
the mirtazipine certainly does make appetite bad. But agsin helps with sleep. Want to protect me sleep. As does the quetiapine. 
 

thank you! 
so many people have said cutting these pills is a no no can cause unpleasant effects .. do you think taking 1 50XR and the rest instants is a way to go??

I take it all at night so to spread it out by taking a little in the morning? But the XR is said to last 12 hours so it’s obviously lasting for sleep.. it really gets me to sleep mmm I’d rather just stay on the pills I’m on instead of introducing a new 25mg pill . 
 

people also say changing to instant can cause effects.. it’s just a very annoying thing! What way would cause less effects..  will just have to make a decision. 
thank you! 🙏🏻

[Altostrata]

We're giving you our best advice, @Emma86 Taking some amount of immediate-release quetiapine is the only way you can gradually taper it. 

 

If you do not want to change your drugs, that's understandable. Please let us know when you want to taper.

[Emma86]

Thank you @Altostrata I know you are  and I really appreciate it. My last drop was 6 weeks ago. Yesterday I had some burning in my skin just out of nowhere.. but obviously was thinking to taper soon.  Just obviously feeling nervous about it. 
has been a rough ride. Want to believe I can do this! And I know you’ve seen it all here I’m sure over the years! So the next step for me would be to cut 12.5 off the 50mg XR pill I take it all at night I’m thinking do I still take it all at night.. as it helps me sleep think XR lasts 12 hours. 
❤️🙌🏻 

[Altostrata]

Suggest you take the reduction from the daytime dose rather than the nighttime dose, keep the 50mg XR at night until the daytime dose is eliminated.

[Emma86]

Yeah I hear you with this. I’m not taking any at day time.. at the moment once I cut and it becomes instant should I take one 25mg in the morning? X rest at night .. if I’m cutting the 50XR pill taking 12.5 off .. do take the cut pill in the morning? Or cut it even more to make it so I’m taking 25mg in the morning rest at night x 

[Altostrata]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:21 AM, Emma86 said:

@Altostrata

So I take the Ativan in the morning at 10/11am I take 0.25 

 

I take the other bit of Ativan 0.25 5/6pm

 

I take the mirtazipine 30mg and the quetiapine 100mg just before I sleep at 22/23pm 

 

I get night munchies.. I am cutting out bread and cheese but in the night I seem to get up half asleep and eat these things.

 

think the mirt and quetiapine 

 

xxx

 

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Yes, you might reduce by 1/4 of a 50mg quetiapine XR tablet when you take it with the other 50mg XR tablet at night. Since you're taking so many "brakes" at night, it's possible you won't feel the difference.

 

As you go through this process, please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

 

[Emma86]

@Altostrata thank you I will keep a note of all this and put here once done! And that’s good to hear about the brakes! At night. 
I know mirtazipine is more sedating at lower doses it’s an accelerator at 30mg  .. I know the quetiapine gets me to sleep for sure! With dosage changes going on with that I dont want to get broken sleep, when I dropped from 150 to 100 I really noticed how I got up at like 6am with anxiety instead of 10am 

 

last il say on the mirt  but do you think lowering it before I make anymore changes on the quetia would be wise to keep the sedation. It has been known to make me manic before at this high dose. Want to protect sleep as much as I can. Thinking the quetiapine is slowing it down. 

 

thank you! Emma 

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Emma86 said:

It has been known to make me manic before at this high dose.

 

Please explain more about this.

[Emma86]

@Altostrata so when I was put on risperidone which was awful! I was put on mirtazipine I stopped the risperidone carried on with the mirtazipine.. i then became manic and totally unstable leading to a hospitalisation .. the withdrawal from the risperidone was very bad even after 2 weeks of taking it so that did counter in.. but I got no sedation from the mirtazipine on its own at 30mg. The quetiapine really does make me sleep knocks me out. 
 

and the antidepressants are seen as accelerating.. and I guess I just don’t want to ever become manic again. ❤️ Would feel better to be on a lower dose while the quetiapine at 100mg doesn’t seem to cause any bad effects. Thanks for your help! 

[Altostrata]

It sounds like you might have had risperidone withdrawal, not an adverse reaction to mirtazapine. 

 

We've been talking about reducing quetiapine. Are you going to do this?

[Emma86]

@Altostrata yes! My phyc who prescribing the pills I’m talking to tommorow to get more of the XL for the taper he says to just go to all instants from this different brand all at once! I didn’t feel comfortable with this, that was a month ago, so I’m going to try to explain in the best way possible that I would like to do it this way 🙌🏻🙏🏻

[Emma86]

@Altostrata 

@Frogie

 

in this last week I have Been getting more symptoms but my last cut was  on the 31st of jan of quetiapine….I was waiting for the last drop to even out. Iv been getting tremors and weird feelings blurry vision, slight burning under skin. Vibrations in my body. Horrid feelings. Getting it in the morning, bits in the day. I havnt changed anything and worried it’s the benzo coming into tolerance. With these weird symptoms starting Iv got to still make my cuts! What happens if the benzo is doing this.. as the benzo was the only thing that took away all my symptoms before and made me functional and there were thousands.

 

it’s certainly covering up everything that was not ok in my body and brain. 
 

im worried to make cuts With this potentially starting to happen. But I guess getting off the quetia would potentially help!!

 

I just know how hard it is to get off it.. 

before I reinstated the benzo I was totally gone.. had akathasia and my mind was in total phycosis i had pain everywhere, I could not function at alll! The reinstatement was just a desperate move to see if it did anything. The severity of how I was worrys me as the benzo stopped all that which means whatever Ativan does to the brain obviously my body needed! And that that part is clearly not very functional the gaba .. glutenmate.. if the benzo isn’t holding as it once was how will it mask the other withdrawals.. and there’s much to withdraw.

 

going into tolerance with it whilst still loads to taper.. 

 

what would one do. 

My body and brain needs to heal it’s gaba how can this be done? When the severity was so so bad before.. can this be done still on other drugs.. 

 

Is it wise to make cuts when the body has symptoms potentially from tolerance starting. 

talking to phyc about lowering the quetiapine today..to get more XL. 

 

But body not feeling good, has been getting progressively worse this week. 
 

thank you! 🙏🏻❤️

 

[Frogie]

@Emma86

 

I really don't think it is the benzo because it happened almost overnight. I think it is the Quetiapine.

 

I think a little more holding and you should start feeling better. You can't go by a calendar, you have to go by how your body feels also. I made that mistake quite a few times.

 

Vision symptoms: floaters, snow, blurred, dimmed vision etc

 

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Emma86]

@Frogie thank you so much ! Yes as was 2 weeks since the 12.5 drop. Could be this! 
sometimes I get so confused with dates so important to keep diary 🙏🏻✨

[Frogie]

@Emma86

 

If you don't have a journal jot it down on your calendar all your symptoms.

 

You could also do some notes for a few days to see if there is a pattern so we could figure out exactly what is going on too.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

[Emma86]

@Frogie🙏🏻❤️

[Frogie]

@Emma86

 

You are very welcome. I'm glad I can help.

[Altostrata]

If your doctor can prescribe immediate-release quetiapine, he should prescribe your dose as 50mg extended-release and 2 25mg immediate-release tablets, to be taken as 25mg in the morning and 75mg (50mg + 25mg) in the evening.

 

Then you can start tapering the 25mg by quartering the tablets, a more gradual taper.

[Emma86]

@Altostrata yes agree so I spoke to him the phyc he admitted brand change with was a result and helped me stick on the same brand of everything ….he said yes to doing 50 XR and adding 25mg instants 

 

He said it’s really not good to cut the 50XR

the 50XR doesn’t go any lower in the same brand 

 

so I have to take the 25mg instants In a different brand

 

So basically mixing the two .. get used to this 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 And then start cutting 

 

I said to him are you sure it’s not safer just to stick to this same pill and brand he said he feels doing half XR and half the instant is better.. 

 

I hate that it can’t be simple and just be the same brand but these pills just don’t come like that. 
 

from what you’ve said above this feels like the way to go… 

 

thank you! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Appreciate your comments .. tricky with this drug quetiapine I will be happy to get down to the 50XR for me a victory! 
 

then I’d have to convert this to all instant. 
 

and carry on .. hoping I tolerate the instant 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[Altostrata]

It's okay to get the extended-release and immediate-release types in different brands.

 

If you have 25mg tablets, you can make the first 4 reductions by quartering one of them, for pieces of 6.25mg. Decreasing by 6.25mg at a time until you get to 75mg per day will allow an even more gradual taper.

[Emma86]

Hey @Altostrata @Frogie guys hope your both well! ….a quick update so I realised the symptoms I had must be from the 12.5 quetiapine drop I had done 2 weeks prior like you said… so I decided to wait for things to calm they did calm and I felt more normal, actually felt really good! … I decided to do some work this last week I havnt been working at all as I had such severe symptoms all last year, as the week went on I felt worse and yesterday was bad shakes burning stomach and anxiety surges, perhaps I did too much.. i think the pressure of having to comitt to the work when very used to no pressure, I have got 25mg instants ready to take with my 50mg XL .. want to do this when the system is settled, in a taper does over stimulation cause symptoms, I’m hoping this passes and going to take it easy from now on. I’m thinking is it something I ate, Iv been having tiny bits of cheese god knows! When symptoms appear I’m like what have I changed and the only thing was being active last week more so than I have been for months! And like I say each day I’d feel worse. Staying in bed today. But eager to start dropping the quetiapine.. however last drop was just 4 weeks ago so I’m still within the tapering 10%. Does stimulation cause this? How to know how much to do and not.. 

 

thank you 

emma 

[Altostrata]

Exactly what drugs are you taking now, at what times o'clock?

 

If you've just now stabilized, I would let that settle for a couple of months before making further reductions, which might roil up the withdrawal symptoms again.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

If you've just now stabilized, I would let that settle for a couple of months before making further reductions, which might roil up the withdrawal symptoms again.

 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

See:

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And Brassmonkey talks more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey