FeralCatman: recovering from Seroquel

[FeralCatman]

Just now, FeralCatman said:

Definitely seems to. I've had some memories come back of years ago when I had a series of hospitalizations and a bunch of Med changes and for a while I had some gut problems then as well but did not develop food sensitivities and had no idea it was due to the drug changes. Sitting up in bed was helpful back then as it is now. It's weird that just having a pressure sensation on my back helps me sleep on my side but then again this whole process is pretty damn weird so I guess things like that should be expected. I've tried the antacid thing twice now and it's worked twice so if I have to I can always take a couple of an antacid chews. As much as possible I'm staying away from anything like that however I think occasionally use is okay. The ones I have are Gaviscon vanilla flavored and are the closest thing to Candy I get to have right now anyways so maybe it's a good thing. 😋

Now that I said that I wonder if it's doing the same thing as a weighted blanket does to help people with anxiety. Hmmmmmmm......🤔

[FeralCatman]

So I'm wondering if anyone can troubleshoot something for me.

 

The one consistent problem I've had that waxes and wanes is anxiety before I'm going to have a bowel movement and sometimes it can be severe. Seems like maybe things are moving too slow if I diversify my diet and so my body tries to use cortisol or adrenaline to speed things up and push things through. Most of the time once things come out anxiety goes away or at least drops way down. Seems like anytime I change my diet and add in a bit more fiber or more solid food this starts and gets worse. I would really like to be able to expand my diet and a few weeks ago it seemed like I was headed in that direction. Once this current wave started all bets were off. Last fall I was eating fairly normally up until that big snow storm when I triggered symptoms again and then had to go back to an easier to digest diet. Throughout the spring things seem to get a little better and then when I triggered this current wave back in June with that big project I did this all started again.

 

It's almost seems like as my microbiome healed my guts became more sensitive and I am not sure if that makes any sense or not but it seems to be what happened. My nutritionist suggested going on very low dose digestive enzymes to start and see if that helps.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[FeralCatman]

UPDATE

 

So yesterday was an amazing day. I slept better and when I got up had no depression or anxiety. Went for a short walk around my property after breakfast and then sat outside in the chair in the shade and enjoyed the view. I did get a little bit of anxiety when I went into the post office but it was barely noticeable and then I took a drive down some local dirt roads to a pond where I like to go sit and relax. Other than my brief experience of anxiety at the post office I was more relaxed yesterday then I can remember being in a long time perhaps for years. Today of course is not so great but to have a day like that I felt normal again. As time has gone by when I have the good days my ability to relax has slowly gotten better and yesterday was the best yet so I can only assume there are more of these days to come.

[FeralCatman]

I found these entries at The Withdrawal Project website regarding abdominal and digestive issues during withdrawal. As far as I can tell this does in fact seem to be mostly a nervous system issue but it would be nice if I could find something that would improve it other than time.

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/page/role-nutrition-optimizing-healing-during-psychiatric-drug-withdrawal-0

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/coping/withdrawal-induced-abdominal-problems-quick-tips

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/symptom/gastrointestinal-disturbancesstomach-problems

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/symptom/indigestion

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/symptom/stomach-problemsgastrointestinal-disturbances

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/symptom/bloatingfluid-retention

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/coping/withdrawal-induced-abdominal-problems-quick-tips

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/symptom/abdominal-problems

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, FeralCatman said:

it would be nice if I could find something that would improve it other than time

 

Knowing you and your great research, I'm sure that if it's out there YOU will find it!  😊

[BigCat]

I've been experimenting with pro biotic yoghurt drinks...

The improvement isn't massive, but is noticeable in my anxiety levels.  I really noticed when I stopped them for a week!

Gut health, vagus nerve and all that...

[FeralCatman]

So hard to know what to do. Seems like the triggers for me are heavy upper body exertion, mental stress, and gut stress. Since my microbiome is vastly improved and most of it is now normal this has to be more of a nervous system problem. Once I try those digestive enzymes and they don't mess me up then I may give those probiotic drinks a whirl because they're easy to digest and see what happens. As soon as I feel up to making the extended Drive I'll be going back to acupuncture again and see if that helps.

 

It really pisses me off to no end that so many people around the world are sick and yet so few people are doing any Research into this. Just makes you want to scream sometimes.

[FeralCatman]

Found the following article regarding traumatic brain injury and its effect on gut function and since withdrawal is essentially a traumatic brain injury it probably applies. Not a lot of specific recommendations are made for a course of action but it does explain things a bit.

 

 

https://www.flintrehab.com/traumatic-brain-injury-and-intestinal-dysfunction-guide/

[FeralCatman]

I have found this method of testing stomach acid in multiple places and years ago someone posted it on Surviving antidepressants and it actually does make sense. I'm going to give it a try before I talk to my nutritionist again. Seems like it really can't hurt. By posting this I'm certainly not making a recommendation that anybody else try it because I am not a doctor but you may find it interesting. If the acid is low then that's going to explain a lot for me and there are concrete things I can do about it that are pretty simple home remedies.

 

 

[FeralCatman]

I'm definitely showing some symptoms of low stomach acid which can be induced by the stress of the withdrawal recovery process and here is a link that discusses that. There are cases in which people that have symptoms of gastroesophageal reflux disease actually do not have high stomach acid but stomach acid that is too low.

 

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/what-is-hypochlorhydria

 

This link list all of the testing that your doctor can do awesome do it yourself home test that you can do as well as how to rectify the problem.

 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/23392-hypochlorhydria#diagnosis-and-tests

[FeralCatman]

Nice to know that there are tests for all this stuff instead of trying to screw around with taking different supplements or antacids and everything else and trying to figure out your symptoms. In my world that's just a big waste of time and I hate having my time wasted especially when I'm feeling like crap. That's probably my biggest pet peeve. I have given several doctors at the VA a high volume piece of my mind because of this. As a result I also don't like to waste other people's time either. This is why I'm so big on testing whenever possible versus experimentation especially in the case of doing a drug response test which is ridiculous if there is a lab test you can do because a lot of times if you experiment with different things you just run into a lot of dead ends and end up wasting your time and being miserable longer  and you run the risk of potentially making yourself worse while doing it. There is an easy test to do that involves a pill with a radio transmitter that you swallow and it takes direct measurements of the acid levels in your stomach so I just messaged my primary care doctor to ask him about ordering that test so I can get some answers. If my stomach acid is low there are some fairly simple home remedies that I can work on through my nutritionist and if my acid levels are high there are other things that can be done to help get that under control. Feeling pretty sure that this is the roof of my gut problems that I still have that are still causing me issues.

[Altostrata]

You may wish to take betaine HCl with meals to assist digestion https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7238915/

Edited September 8, 2023 by Altostrata
corrected to betaine HCl

[FeralCatman]

@Altostrata I just did the baking soda stomach acid test and it took me 7 minutes for enough gas to build up to have a small burp so I think low stomach acid is the problem. I looked up your suggestion and it turns out betaine hydrochloride is used to boost stomach acid to aid digestion so I'm going to try and find a good brand of that and give it a whirl because I think that this is my issue that's causing the rest of the issues Downstream. I put it into my interactions Checker and it does not interact with anything that I take so I should be all right. Thank you for the input on this I really appreciate it 😉✌️😺😺

[FeralCatman]

UPDATE

 

So after many months of suffering and wondering what the heck to do I think I finally figured out what my problem is with digestion. I just did the baking soda test and according to that test my stomach acid is very low. This test is mentioned not only on Alternative Health sites but on mainstream health sites as well and as shown in the video I posted above, it explains how it works and it makes sense. Here is that video link again to keep it all in one place.

 

 

The supplement that alsostrata suggested is betaine hydrochloride which is one of the primary ways of dealing with this particular issue. Other things people seem to do is to add lemon juice or apple cider vinegar to a small glass of water before they eat and that lowers the pH in your stomach and triggers the release of the other digestive enzymes. Seems like the betaine HCl would be best because it contains hydrochloric acid which of course is what is in your stomach and most closely mimics the natural process.

 

As I understand how the whole process works digestion starts when you smell or see food and that causes you to salivate. The triggering of the salivary response then triggers the release of stomach acid in preparation for receiving food. When the pH drops the body senses this and then triggers the release of the other digestive enzymes from your liver and pancreas and kidneys as well as the lining of your gut. However during withdrawal your body is heavily stressed and partially to fully in fight or flight. This causes a reduction and sometimes a complete shutdown in these processes and compromises your digestion which can lead to problems like leaky gut and SIBO and dysbiosis and food sensitivities in addition to the problems with histamine and  other neurotransmitters and a compromised enteric nervous system which is what runs your guts. There are also problems with your HPA access and your Vegas nerve as a result of withdrawal. There's not much you can do to speed up neurotransmitter and nervous system repair but you can assist the gut by providing the proper enzymes for digestion. One of the primary reasons listed for low stomach acid is stress so enough said with that one word and here is an article that discusses it.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/hypochlorhydria#symptoms

 

I also looked up the effects of a high salt diet on stomach acid and there are very few studies that show that stomach acid levels are negatively affected by salt so it's most likely not the extra salt that I'm taking in.

 

If you are taking probiotics or doing what I did and eating Prebiotic foods to repair your microbiome those will still work to repair the microbiome but they don't do a whole lot for the rest of the process. So if you start with increasing stomach acid that should help trigger the rest of the process to be more in line with what's normal.

 

Of course I'm going to discuss all this with my primary care provider and my nutritionist but I think they will end up agreeing with me. They usually do. I'm going to start by finding a good brand of betaine hydrochloride and start taking that and then once I know I can tolerate that I'll add in the additional digestive enzyme supplement that my nutritionist sent to me and if I'm correct about all of this that should solve my digestive issues for now so I can go back to eating a little bit more normally and hopefully keep my body from freaking out every time I have to poop.

 

This is why I like to test because there are many many places and times where you can run tests that are currently available and prevent yourself from chasing your tail. This digestive problem is one of those times because you can take all kinds of advice about diet and supplements but if you don't address the acid problem you're not going to get very far. This leads to frustration and despair unnecessarily. The nervous system issues are far too complicated and poorly understood to do anything other than wait for them to balance out and that part is the one you just leave to mystery and time. This is what I talked about in the previous post about knowing the difference between something that you can actually do something about and something that is still so poorly understood that you just have to leave it up to time and mystery. This particular mystery seems to have been solvable.

 

I will post an update when I know the results.

 

As always this is not medical advice for anybody else to take and use and if you do just like I am you're doing it at your own risk because I am not a doctor I just got this from Dr Google. It is for informational purposes only to help you better understand what's going on but if you decide to take action on it talk to a doctor or nutritionist about it.

[FeralCatman]

I want to add to the above post that too little stomach acid is also a known problem as you age. Since I'm not a spring chicken anymore my acid production is probably already a little compromised anyways as is everything else at this point to begin with. This may be an explanation as to why people who are older seem to have trouble and take longer recovering from these meds versus younger people who seem to have less trouble and of course this would only be one of many factors but it may very well be contributing to the problem for the older people on this group like myself.

[FeralCatman]

I also figured out another potential problem but there are no studies at least formally to back it up but there is some anecdotal evidence scattered around that has been reported from various doctors. I can't validate the information but it is a possibility.

 

There are some clinicians out there that upon doing autopsies and analyzing tissue and fat samples they have found more than Trace Amounts of all sorts of medications and their metabolites as well as other chemicals that are stored away in the fat. The theory is that this is where the body takes things and stores it where it can't do any harm if perhaps for some reason the metabolism is overloaded or it is just something that it can't get rid of but needs to get out of the way.

 

Right now all of my fat stores are just suddenly shifting around and my body is changing in ways I never expected it to while just sitting on my ass. My hands actually have more muscle on them now and are getting stronger but I'm not doing anything to make it happen.

 

One of the things that antipsychotics do that has been found in recent studies is that it causes the body to store fat within the muscle tissue itself which it doesn't normally do. It is this process which seems to be undoing itself right now at just over 2 years out which of course is a major physiological change. As part of this this fat gets released into the bloodstream and metabolized which of course is placing an extra stress on my liver and kidneys or one or the other I don't really know which. As part of this anything that was bound to that fat is also getting released back into my system and be causing some disruption right now. It's possible that last year when I got really sick as part of all the endocrine changes that took place I lost 30 lb of fat and whatever was stored in that fat may have contributed to the disruption.

 

Keep in mind that this is anecdotal evidence and only from case reports and from a couple of blogs I found a long time ago where doctors discuss things like this however and there are no official studies that show  that the body stores toxins in fat but since some medications are lipophilic it does make sense on the surface.

 

[FeralCatman]

@Altostrata I was planning on starting with a very low dose of the betaine hydrochloride with each meal and then titrating up. Is this necessary with this supplement or can I actually just take it? I've been drinking lemon juice in my water all day today and my stomach is starting to feel a little better already so not sure if that's the placebo effect or if it is actually starting to calm things down by reducing the pH.

[Catina7]

Do you ever listen to Dr. Eric Berg on YouTube?  He's a chiropractor and does tons of research like you do.  I did a search for "stomach acid" and found these results.  I'm not sure if they would help you or not but every little bit helps:

 

https://www.youtube.com/@DrEricBergDC

 

 

[FeralCatman]

Thank you for looking that up I will definitely check it out. 😉✌️😺😺

[littlebird]

Saw a very on brand shirt that benefits cats! Seemed like it might be up your alley. Hope you're having a good day!

[FeralCatman]

25 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Saw a very on brand shirt that benefits cats! Seemed like it might be up your alley. Hope you're having a good day!

I can't use the specific language that came out of my mouth when I looked at that shirt on this website because it's all going to get bleeped out anyways but I love it !!! 😍✌️😻😻

[tsranga]

I use a small pinch of grated fresh ginger, a few drops of lemon and some Himalayan salt before food to stimulate digestion. 

[FeralCatman]

I will definitely give that a try 😉

[FeralCatman]

UPDATE

 

I I had another coaching appointment today. I was told despite my extensive history that it's pretty remarkable that my body has healed up as much as it has already and there is nothing indicating that that is not going to continue to happen. The only thing they cautioned me about is that because I am still on the Tegretol and the Paxil and the clonidine as well as the Allegra that I probably will not be able to heal my guts completely because there is ongoing damage as these drugs are known to cause gut wall erosion. As a result if I find I can tolerate the two digestive enzymes supplements it may be something I will be on long-term and they told me they have other clients who also have to do that. So that's really not too terribly surprising and it's comforting to know that there are quite a few other people that have to do this and if it gets me through this episode and through the rest of my tapering comfortably then that's fine I don't mind taking them.

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, FeralCatman said:

I can't use the specific language that came out of my mouth when I looked at that shirt on this website because it's all going to get bleeped out anyways but I love it !!! 😍✌️😻😻

Glad you like it!!  I'll just mentally add in some asterisks into your reply for the full effect. 😹

[j1290]

2 hours ago, littlebird said:

Saw a very on brand shirt that benefits cats! Seemed like it might be up your alley. Hope you're having a good day!

LOL those are fantastic!  Very on-brand for me too!  I don't know how you found them.  

[littlebird]

35 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I don't know how you found them.  

Met someone wearing one and had to know where they got it, was pleasantly surprised to find they're for a good cause to boot!

[Altostrata]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:57 AM, FeralCatman said:

Is this necessary with this supplement or can I actually just take it?

 

You can just take it.

[FeralCatman]

13 hours ago, FeralCatman said:

UPDATE

 

I had another coaching appointment today. I was told despite my extensive history that it's pretty remarkable that my body has healed up as much as it has already and there is nothing indicating that that is not going to continue to happen. The only thing they cautioned me about is that because I am still on the Tegretol and the Paxil and the clonidine as well as the Allegra that I probably will not be able to heal my guts completely because there is ongoing damage as these drugs are known to cause gut wall erosion. As a result if I find I can tolerate the two digestive enzymes supplements it may be something I will be on long-term and they told me they have other clients who also have to do that. So that's really not too terribly surprising and it's comforting to know that there are quite a few other people that have to do this and if it gets me through this episode and through the rest of my tapering comfortably then that's fine I don't mind taking them.

I want to add to this that we also talked about physical disruption to the healing process. What they told me is that this is actually pretty common and that they have another client that is a professional basketball player who is in the process of tapering and they got overly ambitious and went and played three games back to back. That threw them right back into acute withdrawal for 2 months. What happened to me doing that project was pretty much to be expected but unfortunately I didn't know that but I certainly do now. So for many people while going through this process gentler is the better way to go and will be less painful so I'm definitely moving forward with A New Perspective. Ramping up the full blown exercise again will have to be a very slow and methodical process. Once again slower is faster.

 

The other thing that seems to be happening now is that my psychological stress tolerances are starting to get better again. Even though I'm still having some of the anxiety my sleep is between 6 to 8 hours pretty consistently now with the exception of one night in the last 3 weeks so that is getting back to Baseline as well. My sleep is still broken but sleep is sleep. More and more my thinking is becoming more balanced again and my sense of humor is coming back in a way that has been absent for quite a while even since before I got off the drug so that is new and very welcome. I am still getting hit with random memories but that process seems to be winding down now. Most of the muscle pain and specially the pain that was cycling from upper left and down through my body and back up again has been gone for a while now so that is also winding down.  I have described all my symptoms and their patterns to all of the coaches that I have talked to and not a single one of them was surprised by any of it everything that has happened to me is something they have seen many times over. Yesterday I also had an epiphany. I was doing my daily walk around my property and got the idea to just step off into the woods for a bit and once I did that I felt like I was out hiking again even though I can't go full steam and then I realized..... why the hell have I been stressed out about running all over the place to find places to get away when I already live in one and all I had to do was step off my right of way a few steps and there I was in a peaceful isolated spot and recharging my batteries. No need to get in my truck and drive around to find spots I have them right here which of course is why I bought this place to begin with and then totally forgot that and started running around again. I think it may have to do with the fact that in our society we got brought up being taught that all our answers are somewhere out there and we need to go find them but the reality is we carry most of them with us everywhere we go and the ones that we don't are usually a lot closer than what we think.

[FeralCatman]

@Catina7 I got my t-shirt in the mail and it looks totally awesome unfortunately I have no way to post a picture of it but it came out great. I highly recommend doing something like this for yourself because it's definitely a boost to the spirit and it only cost $15 which these days is pretty much chump change. $15 for a psychological boost through this process is money well spent in my opinion.😉✌️😺😺

[littlebird]

9 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

More and more my thinking is becoming more balanced again and my sense of humor is coming back in a way that has been absent for quite a while even since before I got off the drug so that is new and very welcome. I am still getting hit with random memories but that process seems to be winding down now.

This is such good news!! 🎉 Thank you for sharing your process and wins, gives me hope for a better life on the other side of these things.

 

On 8/26/2023 at 5:18 AM, FeralCatman said:

One of the things that antipsychotics do that has been found in recent studies is that it causes the body to store fat within the muscle tissue itself which it doesn't normally do.

This is wild, and explains a lot.

 

On 8/25/2023 at 7:46 AM, FeralCatman said:

My nutritionist suggested going on very low dose digestive enzymes to start and see if that helps.

Yooooooooo enzymes were a game-changer for me when I started them during the tapering process. Digestion vastly improved, but my skin also improved as did some other physical stuff.

 

13 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

$15 for a psychological boost through this process is money well spent in my opinion.😉✌️😺😺

Excellent advice 😎

 

19 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

Yesterday I also had an epiphany. I was doing my daily walk around my property and got the idea to just step off into the woods for a bit and once I did that I felt like I was out hiking again even though I can't go full steam and then I realized..... why the hell have I been stressed out about running all over the place to find places to get away when I already live in one and all I had to do was step off my right of way a few steps and there I was in a peaceful isolated spot and recharging my batteries.

You're living the dream, my man!!!! 🥹 This sounds like absolute paradise. Taking a little mental vacation hike living vicariously through this, thank you again for sharing this with us.

 

21 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

I think it may have to do with the fact that in our society we got brought up being taught that all our answers are somewhere out there and we need to go find them but the reality is we carry most of them with us everywhere we go and the ones that we don't are usually a lot closer than what we think.

This is a self-help book in a paragraph right here. Good wisdom.

[Catina7]

18 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

@Catina7 I got my t-shirt in the mail and it looks totally awesome unfortunately I have no way to post a picture of it but it came out great. I highly recommend doing something like this for yourself because it's definitely a boost to the spirit and it only cost $15 which these days is pretty much chump change. $15 for a psychological boost through this process is money well spent in my opinion.😉✌️😺😺

 

Yay...that's awesome!  😻

[FeralCatman]

UPDATE

 

Two in one day I know is a bit much but I just had another realization.

 

I think I just figured out why my sodium has been so wildly all over the place.

 

By my records the amount I have to pee during the night consistently goes up with my stress levels going up and then goes back down as I'm more relaxed. It happens every single time and as time has gone by the total volume has gone down.

 

There are two things that are known to happen when the body is stressed.

 

The first one is that high stress levels tend to cause the body and the kidneys to excrete more sodium in the urine and the cause for this is not fully understood but it is a pretty consistent observation.

 

The second one is that cortisol and adrenaline and their metabolites are processed out through the kidneys and excreted in the urine which is why there are urine tests available to check for the levels. I think that as the body becomes more stressed but it wants you to rest and sleep it has to generate more urine to filter out the cortisol and its metabolites as well as adrenaline and its metabolites to try and lower your stress level so that you can rest and sleep and heal. This is of course a theory but after obsessive amounts of reading it makes sense based on what I now know.

 

The combination of these two factors causes me to excrete excessive amounts of sodium when my body is stressed causing the levels to be low. The need to be rested is probably why my body decides to try and get rid of it at night so I can rest and sleep but the process is dysfunctional because it disturbs my sleep but at least it is trying to get me as much rest as possible. So this may actually be a protective function by the body because it's trying to heal.

 

There are no studies that show this, this is just a personal Theory based on all of my notes and reading and thought experiments but on the surface it makes sense.

 

SIADH which is what we originally thought was causing it is something caused by medications however the symptoms that I have don't match because that particular condition usually causes a decrease in urine volume and it increase in body fluid volume neither of which is happening with me. In this case it is the increase in fluid volume that dilutes the sodium and causes it to go low. ADH hormone is something secreted in the brain by the pituitary if I remember correctly that sends a signal to the kidneys to either excrete or retain water and the higher that level is the more water your kidneys will retain in the body which then dilutes the sodium and this is definitely not happening with me so that cause can be ruled out.

 

It is this line of reasoning that makes me feel that the most likely cause of my fluctuating sodium level is most likely the process of withdrawal recovery and my body trying to heal.

[Catina7]

11 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

UPDATE

 

Two in one day I know is a bit much but I just had another realization.

 

I think I just figured out why my sodium has been so wildly all over the place.

 

By my records the amount I have to pee during the night consistently goes up with my stress levels and then goes back down as I'm more relaxed. It happens every single time and as time has gone by the volume has gone down.

 

There are two things that are known to happen when the body is stressed.

 

The first one is that high stress levels tend to cause the body and the kidneys to excrete more sodium in the urine and the cause for this is not fully understood but it is a pretty consistent observation.

 

The second one is that cortisol and adrenaline and their metabolites are processed out through the kidneys and excreted in the urine which is why there are urine tests available to check for the levels. I think that is the body becomes more stressed but it wants you to rest and sleep it has to generate more urine to filter out the cortisol and its metabolites as well as adrenaline and its metabolites to try and lower your stress level so that you can rest and sleep and heal. This is of course a theory after obsessive amounts of reading it makes sense based on what I now know.

 

The combination of these two factors causes me to excrete excessive amounts of sodium when my body is stressed causing the levels to be low. They need to be rested is probably why my body decides to try and get rid of it at night so I can rest and sleep but the process is dysfunctional because it disturbs my sleep but at least it is trying to get me as much rest as possible so this may actually be a protective function by the body because it's trying to heal.

 

There are no studies that show this this is just a personal Theory based on all of but on the surface it makes sense.

 

SIADH which is what we originally thought was causing it is something caused by medications however the symptoms that I have don't match because that particular condition usually causes a decrease in urine volume and it increase in body fluid volume neither of which is happening with me. ADH hormone is something secreted in the brain by the pituitary if I remember correctly that sends a signal to the kidneys to either excrete or retain water and the higher that level is the more water your kidneys will retain in the body which then dilutes the sodium and this is definitely not happening with me so that cause can be ruled out.

 

Is this line of reasoning that I feel the most likely cause of my fluctuating sodium level is most likely the process of withdrawal recovery and my body trying to heal.

 

You do a great job in figuring out what's going on in your body.  I think you've almost earned a medical degree haha!

Edited August 29, 2023 by Catina7

[FeralCatman]

20 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

UPDATE

 

Two in one day I know is a bit much but I just had another realization.

 

I think I just figured out why my sodium has been so wildly all over the place.

 

By my records the amount I have to pee during the night consistently goes up with my stress levels going up and then goes back down as I'm more relaxed. It happens every single time and as time has gone by the total volume has gone down.

 

There are two things that are known to happen when the body is stressed.

 

The first one is that high stress levels tend to cause the body and the kidneys to excrete more sodium in the urine and the cause for this is not fully understood but it is a pretty consistent observation.

 

The second one is that cortisol and adrenaline and their metabolites are processed out through the kidneys and excreted in the urine which is why there are urine tests available to check for the levels. I think that as the body becomes more stressed but it wants you to rest and sleep it has to generate more urine to filter out the cortisol and its metabolites as well as adrenaline and its metabolites to try and lower your stress level so that you can rest and sleep and heal. This is of course a theory but after obsessive amounts of reading it makes sense based on what I now know.

 

The combination of these two factors causes me to excrete excessive amounts of sodium when my body is stressed causing the levels to be low. The need to be rested is probably why my body decides to try and get rid of it at night so I can rest and sleep but the process is dysfunctional because it disturbs my sleep but at least it is trying to get me as much rest as possible. So this may actually be a protective function by the body because it's trying to heal.

 

There are no studies that show this, this is just a personal Theory based on all of my notes and reading and thought experiments but on the surface it makes sense.

 

SIADH which is what we originally thought was causing it is something caused by medications however the symptoms that I have don't match because that particular condition usually causes a decrease in urine volume and it increase in body fluid volume neither of which is happening with me. In this case it is the increase in fluid volume that dilutes the sodium and causes it to go low. ADH hormone is something secreted in the brain by the pituitary if I remember correctly that sends a signal to the kidneys to either excrete or retain water and the higher that level is the more water your kidneys will retain in the body which then dilutes the sodium and this is definitely not happening with me so that cause can be ruled out.

 

It is this line of reasoning that makes me feel that the most likely cause of my fluctuating sodium level is most likely the process of withdrawal recovery and my body trying to heal.

I need to add a disclaimer here.

 

This is just what's happening within my own body and may in fact be happening to some other people as well. However the variances in individual physiology are the unsolved mystery part of this equation that has to be just left to mystery at this point. Many people don't have this problem and so their body may have different compensatory mechanisms to deal with what's going on and that's highly individual and unpredictable. For those that don't develop this problem but develop ungodly insomnia for months or even years it may simply be because their body doesn't compensate by getting rid of the cortisol and adrenaline so they're never able to sleep but then again that's just a theory as well because there's just way too much that we don't understand. The conclusion I came to is based on my own notes and research and what my particular body is doing but I'm sure that this idea can apply in a general way to other people as well.

[tsranga]

Sodium and water are fascinating topics - I found a few interesting ones that helps me understand what's happening in my case - 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2399901/

 

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpregu.00002.2018

 

https://academic.oup.com/ajh/article/26/1/5/164451