ExtraSpearmint: introduction

[ExtraSpearmint]

Hi, I’m new and this is my first post.  I have been tapering off 10 mgs liquid Prozac since September 28, 2021. As of February 9, 2022 I am down to 3.6 mgs.  I am a slow metabolizer of Prozac so the half life makes adjustments easy but the side effects are painful.  

 

My psychologist, who retired December 2021, who I went to off and on for 13, told my new psychiatrist June 2021 his opinion that I no longer needed antidepressants and needed my Ativan only rarely, as they were, in his opinion, now creating the anxiety and depression.  

 

My psychiatrist, after speaking with my psychologist and with me has agreed, the medication, especially the antidepressant is not what I need this the reason for tapering off.  Which was the reason I tapered off lexapro in 2018.  After a two and a half year taper down from five to one, my then psych pa told me to stop. That didn’t go well.  One month later I started on five mgs liquid Prozac and from July 2018 to October 2018 , after another doctor took over, and he slowly raised me to 20 mgs.  

 

Because my psychologist and I both were in agreement, with my doctor at that time, in 2020 I did a 4 month taper from 40 mgs (I was only on that dose a week because it really messed me up, the dose that worked best for me was ten, why I went to forty is long story)to nothing in five months.  Doctor said it was okay to do it this way.  That went well until withdrawal hit three months later.  

 

 Back to February 2022.  With my last dose changeover a week ago, I have gone the gambit of emotions.  From here on out it’s smaller dose changes.  But my issue now is, (Prozac has always had a stimulant (ramped up feeling) effect on me,) I feel so ramped up now physically I’m having to take more Ativan.  I have texted my psychiatrist about this but still have yet to hear back from him.  This ramped up feeling is physical and it hasn’t really effected me emotionally.  Which is odd for me.  

 

A good thing, a great and wonderful blessing is, it hasn’t triggered the suicidal ideation that Prozac can cause and it hasn’t triggered anxiety, just makes me so nervous I feel like jumping out of my skin,  in all the 17+ years I have been on and changed or tapered medicine, this is new to me.  

 

Does anyone have thought about this?  I am a Christian and I have a strong and close relationship with Christ.  Just wanted to add that important information.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by ChessieCat
added spacing

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  You have come to the right place. 

 

Thanks for the info on your drug history.  Could you possibly list more info about your recent Prozac taper, such as dates, or approximate dates (early October, last week of December, etc) about each of your dose reductions, and the amount of each dose?  This would help us help you.  

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

 

On 2/9/2022 at 9:12 AM, ExtraSpearmint said:

Because my psychologist and I both were in agreement, with my doctor at that time, in 2020 I did a 4 month taper from 40 mgs (I was only on that dose a week because it really messed me up, the dose that worked best for me was ten, why I went to forty is long story)to nothing in five months.

 

In 2020, were you on the Lexapro, or the Prozac? 

 

On 2/9/2022 at 9:12 AM, ExtraSpearmint said:

I feel so ramped up now physically I’m having to take more Ativan.

Can you please describe specifically what you mean by "ramped up".  Do you have anxiety, insomnia, restlessness, agitation, racing thoughts, inability to sit still, etc?  

 

On 2/9/2022 at 9:12 AM, ExtraSpearmint said:

the side effects are painful.

Can you please describe these side effects you had with Prozac?  Thank you.  

 

On 2/9/2022 at 9:12 AM, ExtraSpearmint said:

I feel like jumping out of my skin,  in all the 17+ years I have been on and changed or tapered medicine, this is new to me.  

Did you have this feeling of jumping out of your skin while on the 10 mg of Prozac, or only as you were tapering in the past 5 or so months?  

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.   This explains why some of have adverse effects (side effects) while on the drugs, and symptoms while going off the drugs.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

 

Also, as we are tapering off and recovering, we suggest keeping things slow, simple, and stable. 

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms.  Symptoms of adverse effects are similar.  

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

To help us see if what you are dealing with is withdrawal versus adverse effects, or some combination thereof, it would be very helpful if you could do a daily journal of your drugs, symptoms, and activities.  Please do this for a full 24 hours, and post in here.  Thank you.  Here is an example.  

 

6 AM woke with anxiety

8 am took 2.5 mg lexapro

10 am stomach is upset

10:30 am ate breakfast

11:35 am got a headache, lasted one hour

12:35 ate lunch

4 pm feel a bit better

5 pm took 2.5 mg lexapro

6 pm ate dinner

9:20 pm headache 

10:00 pm took 50 mg Seroquel

10:30 pm feeling dizzy

10:30 pm fell asleep 

2:30 am woke, took 3 mg Ambien

2:45 am fell asleep

4:30 am woke, but got back to sleep 

 

When we see more information, we can give you more specific suggestions.  For now, stay on the current dose of your Prozac.  Please let us know how you are doing.  

[ExtraSpearmint]

I was on Prozac in 2020

 

[ExtraSpearmint]

The ramped up feeling left as I lowered the Prozac.  Three plus weeks and each week is better.  Two really difficult, trying  days in the last two weeks but nothing like that since Sunday the 13th of this month.  My physical pain, I.e. muscle tension, cramps, gi issues, headaches, eye pain, nausea, jaw clamping, have all improved greatly.  I feel ok emotionally.  I don’t feel overwhelmed and I don’t feel like me.  Once in a while, I will feel like me.  It doesn’t happen often and it doesn’t last long, but I’m in there!  I have some dizziness today but nothing to interrupt my life.  
 

The reason I haven’t posted was because we lost our beloved Molly dog and I just didn’t have it in me to post.

 

This coming Monday, it will be four weeks since coming off prozac and  each week there is improvement.  Last year was so traumatizing for me and my family, we are all praying for my success with this.  Sometimes, I have doubts, but I remind myself that I can do all things through Christ.  My psychiatrist has said the next two and three months will be up and down and to hang in there.

On 2/12/2022 at 9:54 AM, getofflex said:

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  You have come to the right place. 

 

Thanks for the info on your drug history.  Could you possibly list more info about your recent Prozac taper, such as dates, or approximate dates (early October, last week of December, etc) about each of your dose reductions, and the amount of each dose?  This would help us help you.  

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

 

 

In 2020, were you on the Lexapro, or the Prozac? 

 

Can you please describe specifically what you mean by "ramped up".  Do you have anxiety, insomnia, restlessness, agitation, racing thoughts, inability to sit still, etc?  

 

Can you please describe these side effects you had with Prozac?  Thank you.  

 

Did you have this feeling of jumping out of your skin while on the 10 mg of Prozac, or only as you were tapering in the past 5 or so months?  

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.   This explains why some of have adverse effects (side effects) while on the drugs, and symptoms while going off the drugs.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

 

Also, as we are tapering off and recovering, we suggest keeping things slow, simple, and stable. 

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms.  Symptoms of adverse effects are similar.  

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

To help us see if what you are dealing with is withdrawal versus adverse effects, or some combination thereof, it would be very helpful if you could do a daily journal of your drugs, symptoms, and activities.  Please do this for a full 24 hours, and post in here.  Thank you.  Here is an example.  

 

6 AM woke with anxiety

8 am took 2.5 mg lexapro

10 am stomach is upset

10:30 am ate breakfast

11:35 am got a headache, lasted one hour

12:35 ate lunch

4 pm feel a bit better

5 pm took 2.5 mg lexapro

6 pm ate dinner

9:20 pm headache 

10:00 pm took 50 mg Seroquel

10:30 pm feeling dizzy

10:30 pm fell asleep 

2:30 am woke, took 3 mg Ambien

2:45 am fell asleep

4:30 am woke, but got back to sleep 

 

When we see more information, we can give you more specific suggestions.  For now, stay on the current dose of your Prozac.  Please let us know how you are doing.  

 

[ExtraSpearmint]

In 2020 I was on Prozac.

 

 The ramped up feeling was a side effect of the Prozac.  It was activating for me.  it made me feel like someone had filled me with caffeine.  It only went away as I lowered the medication.  Sometimes, I get what I refer to as “the hummingbird effect”.  That’s my body’s response to too much stimulation, usually from being around people. It also happens when my body is adjusting withdrawal.  I don’t feel that way every but a time or two a day and it doesn’t last any longer than half an hour.  It’s not that uncomfortable.  I see it as a positive sign.  I sleep well, even though I do use ambien, withdrawal can throw my sleep off, but hasn’t been as issue for over a month.  I don’t have horrible dreams anymore.  I had those all the time while on Prozac.  
 

the side effects with Prozac were: and most of these were every day

headaches 

eye pain

muscle tension

knots in my legs

my thighs felt like eagle claws were stuck in them

jaw clamping

bad dreams

sexual side effects

Dry mouth

A month before I took my last dose, the nausea was so bad I could hardly eat or drink.  I Felt horrible because of the dehydration.  That all got better two weeks off the medication.  Some days I still have the not wanting to eat or drink much but more days I eat and drink normal more than I don’t. 
 

I’ve discussed magnesium and fish oil with my psychiatrist and he advised adding nothing new to the mix for a while.  He and I agreed to let my body heal and see how things progress.  He did tell me at my last appointment, less than two weeks ago, that he isn’t going to suggest I try a new medication.  I was afraid he would want to.  He said antidepressants do not work for me and I did not need them.  All the hard work I have done with my (now retired) psychologist and my new therapist and the work I do on my own is making more positive changes than any medication has, he told me.  
 

I hope this answers several questions.

 

My day so far:

6:30 woke up I don’t remember any anxiety took 0.5 mg ativan (not time to taper off another medication 😊)

11:30 at some cereal, felt dizzy

12:00 0.5 Ativan 

12:30-4:30 felt sad and anxious at turns but nothing higher than a 3 (using 1 as the least amount of mental pain 10 highest)

1:30 dizzy left but I just now noticed it had been gone a while

 

 

 

 

[ExtraSpearmint]

The worst side effect on Prozac was suicidal ideation.  I don’t have rumination or racing thoughts.  Racing thoughts left years long ago and haven’t returned.  Sometimes, music will play in my head.  I used to try to ignore it, now I listen to it.  That’s how my mind tries to work out anxiety.  

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @ExtraSpearmint

 

I am so sorry you lost your furry friend, and that you've been struggling with one adverse effect or another of Prozac for so long.

 

Since you're under a doctor's care, your doctor should have attended to these adverse symptoms from the beginning.

 

As I understand it, you have now been off Prozac since February 20, you are using Ativan to cope with withdrawal symptoms. You are still under a doctor's care. How may we help you here?

[ExtraSpearmint]

Thank you Altostrata, for the condolences.

 

The psychiatrist has been very helpful.  He has only been part of my medical support since late, last June.  He has been very supportive and helpful.  He had to do some clean up after the nurse practitioner under him made some big mistakes with my medication care.  
 

I go every two weeks to the psychiatrist.  

 

I do use Ativan. 
 

The reason I came here, is because this is the third time I’ve tried to come off an antidepressant and I could use some encouragement.  I came off of lexapro almost four years ago and made it one month.  A year and a half ago I tried coming off prozac and made it three months.  So, I thought maybe hearing from other people like me would be helpful.  I do apologize if this isn’t the correct use of this site.  
 

[getofflex]

It sounds like you are doing really well!  I'm thrilled to hear you are recovering so beautifully from the Prozac.  You are using the site correctly.  It is to help and encourage people who are coming off of psych meds, which you did.  It sounds like you have a pretty good doctor.  Keep up the good work! 

[ExtraSpearmint]

Getofflex,  Thank you so much for the kind, thoughtful words.  They are helpful.  My husband is a huge support for me, and I have many people who pray for me and some people who pray with me.  Again, thank you for reaching out with your kind, encouraging words🤗

[Altostrata]

Why are you taking Ativan? Are you taking Ativan for the Prozac withdrawal symptoms? What were those symptoms?

 

What is your plan for going off Ativan?

[ExtraSpearmint]

I came off every day use of Ativan in April 2020 after a year and a half taper.  It went well.  I was off for ten months. After coming off daily use,  I only used it once or twice a month for anxiety.  When the Prozac withdrawal fell through February of 2021, my nurse practitioner said I could go back to daily use and I did.  That’s why I’m using Ativan.  
 

When the time comes to taper off Ativan, I will cut a quarter off of one of the doses that I take.  I take four, 0.5 mgs doses spread throughout the day.  I will take 3/4 of a 1/2 mg tablet, probably the noon dose, to begin.  Then I wait until my body says it’s time to lower again.  I’ll lower the noon dose until that dose is gone then I’ll work on tapering the afternoon dose and continue until I’m off.  

[ExtraSpearmint]

Up until three weeks ago, I was using 1 1/2 mgs a day.  There are days now that I could use half a mg less than I do but I’m not wanting to skip that dose and start another withdrawal process.  

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, ExtraSpearmint said:

When the Prozac withdrawal fell through February of 2021, my nurse practitioner said I could go back to daily use and I did.  That’s why I’m using Ativan.  

 

For what symptoms are you taking Ativan?

 

6 hours ago, ExtraSpearmint said:

The reason I came here, is because this is the third time I’ve tried to come off an antidepressant and I could use some encouragement.

 

People do come off their antidepressants and recover without need for further drugs. But you are going to have a further travail coming off Ativan.

[ExtraSpearmint]

Ativan is for the anxiety.

 

I have come off of Ativan before and when it’s time I will taper off again. My body handles lowering Ativan doses better than it does lowering Prozac. What travail may come will come.  

[ExtraSpearmint]

When I came off ativan the first time, it wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t as difficult as the first Prozac withdrawal.  I respect the difficulty of the process of withdrawing from medications.

[Altostrata]

It appears the more people go on and off drugs, the more difficult tapering gets. Please be careful.

[ExtraSpearmint]

I will be careful, thank you.

[getofflex]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:15 PM, ExtraSpearmint said:

My husband is a huge support for me, and I have many people who pray for me and some people who pray with me

I will pray for you too, spearmint.  I second what Altostrata said, the more we go on and off psych drugs, the harder it is on our system.  Several years ago, I was using Xanax 2 or 3 times a week to help with sleep, and I stopped doing that in December 2019.  I'm glad I did. Take care, and keep in touch.  

[ExtraSpearmint]

Thank you, getofflex, I appreciate the prayers.  I will pray for you, too.  I will be careful, very careful with the Ativan.  
 

I did have a two week appointment with my psychiatrist today and he was all smiles with how well I am doing.  He said I will continue to keep improving as the weeks go by, with some ups and downs that should continue to level out.   I see him again in two weeks.  
 

thank you all for your advice and encouraging words and the helpful prayers.  Prayer makes a huge difference.

[ExtraSpearmint]

It is so wonderful, getofflex, that you are free from Xanax!  That’s a big accomplishment.  I look forward to the day that I am free of Ativan.  

[getofflex]

13 hours ago, ExtraSpearmint said:

I will be careful, very careful with the Ativan.  
 

That's good.  Frogie is the one to talk to about benzos - just type "@" followed by frogie, and select from the list to tag her, when you are ready to taper Ativan.  Do you use Ativan every day, or just as needed? 

 

Are you altogether off Prozac now?

[ExtraSpearmint]

Yes, I am completely off the Prozac; 30 days.  
 

I use Ativan every day.  Some days I take a little less than what I am prescribed but not for more than one day.  When I came off of it the first time,  I dropped by 1/4 mg for about a month or so.  Took me almost two years coming off that way but I came off of it for almost year.  
 

thanks for letting me know about Frogie and how to get in touch with her.  
 

have a blessed day.

[ExtraSpearmint]

I actually lowered my Ativan dose by 1/8 mg because I had 1/2 mg pills.

[getofflex]

Thanks for the clarification.  Please indicate in your signature box your reduction on your Ativan dose, and the date, thank you!  

[ExtraSpearmint]

1st Ativan withdrawal (dates approximate)

March 2010 - November  1, 2018 2 mgs Ativan taken 1/2 mgs 4 times a day

December 1, 2018  1 3/4 mgs 1/8 mgs taken at noon

April 30, 2020 took my last every day dose.  After that used once or twice a month, if at all, until I restarted in February 2021 at 2 mgs a day, for March and April took three mgs a day, then tapered from May until the end of June down to 2 mgs taken in 1/2 mg doses 4 times a day.  

 

[ExtraSpearmint]

I can’t list a taper schedule because I did it as my body allowed.

 

[ExtraSpearmint]

5 weeks and a half off prozac.  Weeks five and a half have been off and on mostly waves.  (Today was an improvement over yesterday.  I felt less panic, sad, much fewer and much less intense intrusive thoughts). The waves have been very difficult and long.  They haven’t been as hard as the first two weeks off prozac.  They do have a pattern.  Mornings are panicky feeling, then a few hours later I feel sad with bad thoughts.  A few hours later, anxiety.  Anger comes and goes and doesn’t last long, maybe minutes a few times a day or off and on for an hour.  Some days I don’t have any withdrawal anger.  By bed time, I’m feeling better, not like the normal me, but better.  Each week it’s a tiny bit better than the week before.  I’ve had a headache for five days.  A mix of a migraine and sinuses. This is the first week that I couldn’t go visit my grandma because the waves were so bad.  I, my husband and a six year old nephew of mine were supposed to go visit my sister and her family this weekend.  He is sick with a fever and headache.  But I was not going to be able to go because the waves have stressed me so much that traveling this weekend is not going to happen for me.  We have put the visit off until the end of April.  That isn’t because of my withdrawal but because that’s the earliest we can make it work for all involved; regular life issues😊.

 

Sometimes,  I despair that this will never end and that I won’t ever feel like me again.  Then a short window comes and I have a little hope.  There was one day, three weeks ago, that for two or three hours, I felt like me, ( no withdrawals, no sad feelings, or bad thoughts and no anxiety— and it was so wonderful!!!) and I remember that time when withdrawal gets so hard and I begin to believe this isn’t going to end.  I remember those hours and I know they were real and one day, that’s how my life will be and withdrawal will be in my past.  I wish that would happen right now😉

[getofflex]

18 hours ago, ExtraSpearmint said:

Each week it’s a tiny bit better than the week before.

It sounds like you are very gradually improving, which is what we see with recovery from psych meds.  

[ExtraSpearmint]

1 hour ago, getofflex said:

It sounds like you are very gradually improving, which is what we see with recovery from psych meds.  

Thank you for the encouraging words ☺️

[ExtraSpearmint]

Is it normal to wave with physical symptoms, too?  
 

 

[getofflex]

Yes, it is.  Go back to my first post and check out the Glenmullen symptoms list.    

[ExtraSpearmint]

Thank you.  I appreciate that.  Sorry I missed it.  

[ExtraSpearmint]

I made copies.

[ExtraSpearmint]

Today, I had a good window.  I’m in a wave for now.  So I thought I’d share some fun and happy memories.

 

I have three, fat, free-range goats.  All females.  I live half-a-mile off the road and my nearest neighbor is the same distance so it’s safe for my goats to roam.  My house is hard to see from the road and privacy isn’t really an issue.  They have their own small barn but prefer to stay under the front porch.  

 

We had two dogs, we lost one a year and a half ago and one a month and a half ago.  Pepper, the oldest dog and Shirley, the goat had a love hate relationship.  They loved to pick on each other.  unfortunately, if I was in the middle of that, I got butted or nipped.  And those two would put me in the middle.  Eventually, I learned to move quickly.  They never hurt each other. When Pepper passed, Shirley mourned the loss.
 

 Molly, the other dog, she loved to dig holes, anywhere.  She and Pepper had a good sized hole in the side yard that they both could fit in.  Then I got 4 goats.  (I lost one two years ago this month). They made that hole a goat sized hole.  Shirley was protective of that hole and so was pepper and it got to the point that about each night at 8:00 those two would get into a row about who was gonna get that for a bed.  One evening, a sister in law was there and asked me what that racket was and I told her that Shirley and Pepper were fighting over a hole.  Since she came each week for supper, she got familiar with it and when she’d hear the noise she’d say, “it must be 8:00, I need to be getting home”.  The hole now fits 2 goats.  

 

 Last June, I bought an electric bike.  I love it.  For my first ride I rode down my long driveway.  My goats didn’t see me leave so that was good.  Halfway down the driveway, I turned around to see my goats, running as fast as they can to catch up with me.  I turned around, walked my bike back home so my goats didn’t  exhaust themselves trying to keep up with me.  I discovered a few things on that first ride:

1. I love my new bike

2. My goats love me

3. If I want to ride my bike, I have to leave when they aren’t around

There have been times when I have loaded my bike into the back of my truck and drove it down the driveway so my goats wouldn’t  follow.  Eventually, they learned that they don’t like running that much and they quit following me.
 

My goats love to take walks with me and enjoy the yummy food along the driveway.  One of their favorites are the wild black raspberries.  There aren’t many canes so I have to compete with wildlife just to get a handful.  Last year, it was deer, a turkey, squirrels, a raccoon, a skunk, a possum and many birds.  
 

The mail lady loves it when I get to the mailbox the same time as she does, with three goats in tow.  And yes, they will eat my mail.  One year, on a walk, a car stopped and the people inside asked if they could take video of the goats.  Most people find it amazing that goats like walks with their shepherd.  

 

Anyway, thanks for letting me share my memories about my goats.  Maybe, another time, I will share some memories about my precious dogs.

 

 

[getofflex]

I'm glad to hear you had a window.  The goats sounds like a lot of fun and entertainment.  Animals are great and therapeutic.  I have 2 cats, and feel the same way about them.