Kaervin: 10 years on ADs, fear of letting go

[Kaervin]

41 minutes ago, Ariel said:

If you go for CST make sure it's biodynamic. You can do a certified practitioner search for your area: 

https://www.craniosacraltherapy.org/index.php?option=com_mcdirectorysearch&view=search&id=2000411#/

 

Biodynamic CST is not massage per se, but it's a very gentle, healing modality that I've found to be supportive for my WD experience. 

 

40 minutes ago, Ariel said:

Just found this thread:

 

 

Excellent thank you! Just found one 40 miles away (or 64.4 kms for you metric users 🙃). Going to do some research and go from there. Withdrawal has definitely made me a lot more open minded and willing to try non-conventional healing methods (with the caveat that it won't set back my healing).

 

Some people around me have mentioned Reiki, but I am going to try things one at a time so can can better assess their effectiveness.

[Ariel]

Btw @Kaervin

 

When I went to see them I never mentioned a word about WD, and I was glad I didn't. I just said what was bothering me -- tightness in jaw, poor sleep, difficulty relaxing, etc. 

Just something to consider. In my experience unless I know beforehand that someone is definitely knowledgeable about WD and specifically trained in that (which, no surprise, has never happened), I don't bring it up. They don't need to hear about that and it would just be distracting to go down the road of explaining, yada yada yada. Plus, the clock's ticking and these treatments are not inexpensive. I just made a pragmatic decision at one point that it's enough that I know it, and I just go and say, Hi I don't sleep well and get headaches and shoulder/neck tension (or whatever it is I'm seeking help with), and that's perfectly adequate.

 

If you're concerned with it being gentle enough and want to make sure they don't do anything overly stimulating/activating to the nervous system, you might try to say something like,

I know from experience that I'm really sensitive, less is more. 

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes <3

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Ariel

[Onmyway]

12 hours ago, Kaervin said:

That might help actually! Only issue right now is that I sleep on top of covers due to heat intolerance. Might crank up the AC a bit. Also doesn't help that a foster cat likes to sleep next to me and I am focused on not rolling over on her.

Is it RLS (compulsion to move legs) or hypnic jerks?

 

[Kaervin]

20 hours ago, Ariel said:

Good luck and let us know how it goes ❤️

Thanks! And yes I know how difficult it is to explain to people, especially after you have been off for awhile. To say that I am suffering from wd from a med I stopped a year ago would make most people confused, after all all ADs can be stopped in just a few weeks with just a little dizziness according to text books.... right? 🙄 

 

Just going to explain the symptoms, but play dumb as to the source. Poker face time!

 

[Kaervin]

9 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Is it RLS (compulsion to move legs) or hypnic jerks?

 

My legs don't twitch or jerk. They just feel uncomfortable when they are perfectly still, my arms too but to a lesser degree. It varies in intensity from night to night. Currently take magnesium citrate and that seems to help. That is why I decided to avoid diphenhydramine to help with my sleep issues. Read that antihistamines can exacerbate rls.

 

Appt next week so I am going to get iron tested just to be sure. 

[Heath]

Hello @Kaervin! Glad you found this great group of people! You are in good hands!

 

Definetly agree with omw and cc about holding. Hold same dose, same time, same brand for several months. It will bring you closer to some normalcy function wise. 
 

what does the uncomfortable feeling in legs /arms feel like ? I have had the twitching jerk, but I have also had other feelings. Achy, sore, tense , cold. I’ve had my legs and but tense and release over and over. I also have noticed different times My jaw or neck or any muscle would be sore. Then later I saw where I was holding or tensing without even realizing it. Like subconsciously doing it. I have found when these symptoms appear when I stretch real good every day for a week the feeling goes away. 
 

I have used my ear buds with honest guys rain for sleep on you tube. They have one rain that is 8 hours long. Puts me rt to sleep . Hot bath helped me sleep but this could go either way. Adult or children bedtime stories in audio. When daughter was younger and I was lucky she would read to me and sleepy time. There are other meditation/sleep type audios. I didn’t realize there was so much out there to help sleep naturally. A meeting at work will put me rt to sleep LOL. 
 

hang on 👍

[Onmyway]

2 hours ago, Kaervin said:

My legs don't twitch or jerk. They just feel uncomfortable when they are perfectly still, my arms too but to a lesser degree. It varies in intensity from night to night. Currently take magnesium citrate and that seems to help. That is why I decided to avoid diphenhydramine to help with my sleep issues. Read that antihistamines can exacerbate rls.

 

Appt next week so I am going to get iron tested just to be sure. 

Yeah that sounds like RLS. If you have the option might consider Epsom salt baths before bed, see if they help.

 

I'd really try to get your sleep environment as calm as possible - cats/ac just right. If sleep is ok the rest of withdrawal will be just a bit easier. Sleep allows the brain to replenish/repair itself.

 

Omw

[Kaervin]

23 hours ago, Heath said:

A meeting at work will put me rt to sleep LOL. 

I hear you there! 

 

Thank you for your kind words and suggestions. I went through your intro section here and it seems you are on the struggle bus too. I am trying my best to improve my sleep and so far through methods others have shared I am now able to get about 4 to 6 hours of broken sleep. 

 

I haven't experienced much in the way of pain, it has mostly been mental. Can't imagine having to deal with pain on top of this. 

 

I am starting to level out now on this dose. Not in a hurry to cut any further for a few months, but also don't want to become complacent just because I am getting back to functional.

 

Again, thank you for your insight and humor.

[Kaervin]

22 hours ago, Onmyway said:

 

I'd really try to get your sleep environment as calm as possible - cats/ac just right. If sleep is ok the rest of withdrawal will be just a bit easier. Sleep allows the brain to replenish/repair itself.

When sleep is bad, it tends to make all other symptoms worse. Plus sleep is always a temporary reprieve from withdrawal symptoms. 

 

I am starting to improve a little bit now in that regard. How is your sleep for where you are at in recovery? On your thread you mentioned problems with your neighbors. Did moving help?

[Heath]

17 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

haven't experienced much in the way of pain, it has mostly been mental. Can't imagine having to deal with pain on top of this. 

Once you stabilize the mental symptoms will fade and as you taper slowly to keep mental symptoms very minimal you will also have minimal physical symptoms  that is the goal anyway.
 

you know most of the times when I was in heavy wd . The anxiety (mental symptoms) somehow kept the physical pain turned off.

 

I used to say that also if my back or whatever was hurting I wouldn’t make it with the mental stuff too but it worked out that it was only one at a time🤷‍♂️. One way or the other it has always worked itself out! 
 

You are doing rt stabilize first for functional life. 

[Kaervin]

On 6/9/2022 at 1:42 PM, Heath said:

you know most of the times when I was in heavy wd . The anxiety (mental symptoms) somehow kept the physical pain turned off.

That is pretty much how I was during my 2012 withdrawal. There were some physical symptoms along with the mental, but either the mental symptoms were intense with mild physical symptoms or vice versa. Luckily never had to battle both at at high intensity at the same time.

[Kaervin]

I am slowly but surely stabilizing on 12.5 mgs of sertraline. By the end of summer I plan on continuing to taper down. I was debating whether to switch to fluoxetine as it has a longer half-life than sertraline. I read the articles as to why it is beneficial to switch to Prozac (same reason people switch to Valium for benzo tapers). I would like to hear from others on how it went for them.

 

Back when I switched from 20 mgs of Lexapro to 20 mgs of Prozac I changed meds instantly in one day and had no symptom changes from the crossover. My side effects have been relatively consistent no matter which med I was put on. So I know in advance that I can tolerate Prozac. As to whether that has changed now that my brain is a little destabilized I don't know.

 

Anyone due a switch to Prozac and find it helped? I will be using a compound pharmacy no matter which med.

[Onmyway]

The cost benefit of switching to prozac are not obvious to me in your case @Kaervin. It can go spectacularly wrong as a potential downside. The benefit though with sertraline is not obvious - it already has a decent half life.

 

the only time when we may recommend it is if the person is having a very hard time coming off of venlafaxine, eacitalopram, paroxetine.

 

There is a thread on it that you can find on the website.

 

Don't mess with what's working would be my advice

Omw

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Kaervin said:

So I know in advance that I can tolerate Prozac. As to whether that has changed now that my brain is a little destabilized I don't know.

 

The effect of the use of psychiatric drugs (changing drugs, going up and down in doses, make took large a reduction/increase and experiencing withdrawal symptoms) are cumulative.

 

Just because you were able to do something before doesn't mean that it will work the same way next time.

 

We have SA members who have a history of multiple drug and dose changes with no issues, then one day they do something they have done before and it all comes crashing down.  Their nervous system cannot take any more and they become destabilised.  Some have ended up having a relationship breakdown, some have lot jobs, some have become bedridden, some have had to move in with relatives.

 

 

 

 

[Heath]

1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

Don't mess with what's working would be my advice

Omw

 

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Just because you were able to do something before doesn't mean that it will work the same way next time.

Totally agree with above. I would definitely stick with the Zoloft and it worked for you for 8 years . 
 

There are members here that have done the Prozac bridge and it’s very risky. 

[OldDodgy]

@Kaervin

I hope I am not intruding here but I have some history regarding getting off various ADs over 45 years. 
 

I certainly wouldn’t rock the boat and switch. I would hold for quite a bit. 
 

We were “sold” sertraline as being a nice and gentle Ssri but depending on your CYP status it might actually be still doing something for you. Hence the need to be cautious. 
 

You mentioned an iron test for your legs. I wonder what the result was?  The lab quoted levels are often insufficient, and I found I needed to correct the transferrin and ferritin levels for relief. B12, Folate, VitD and magnesium were also depleted significantly. 
 

Just a thought 

 

Best wishes 

 

OD

 

 

 

 

[Kaervin]

Thank you everyone for your input. I mainly intended to stick with the sertraline but was open to the possibilty of a switch if there was suffiecient history on this forum of that being a better solution. Just wanted some input as to whether a crossover to Prozac for tapering was generally seen as a beneficial protocol. At the benzo forum I was a member of, we generally suggested a crossover to valium as per the Ashton Manual but with antidepressants it seems to be a much more risky proposition. And concerning mental health, risks should be avoided at all costs. 

 

My last recovery was from a cold turkey, so a slow taper will be a new experience for me. I will be med free! I want my old self back and will patiently do whatever I can do to limit the potential suffering that lies ahead.

 

Everyone, I appreciate it. I am a veteran when it comes to the recovery experience, but still an apprentice at tapering.

[Kaervin]

5 hours ago, OldDodgy said:

You mentioned an iron test for your legs. I wonder what the result was?  The lab quoted levels are often insufficient, and I found I needed to correct the transferrin and ferritin levels for relief. B12, Folate, VitD and magnesium were also depleted significantly. 

I have an appt early morning tomorrow and plan on getting thoroughly checked. I have started taking Magnesium as of last week and I do feel some benefit.

 

You are welcome to offer insight on anything you want to. My thread is quite inclusive ; ) no entrance fees. 

[OldDodgy]

Good wishes for a full recovery 

 

OD 

[Kaervin]

Just a minor update. I seem to be stabilizing at my current dose. My sleep has improved and that has been a significant factor in decreasing my stress level.

 

A shout out to all those who shared their advice about improving sleep in withdrawal, as it has helped tremendously.

 

While I was at work I was thinking about how ssris operate. They increase the amount of serotonin flowing in the body, and the body adapts by downregulating serotonin receptors over time.  So my question is this. 

 

If normal serotonin is 30 ppm (made up #) and ssris work by increasing it to 40 ppm, but after several weeks the body downregulates receptors to bring the utilized serotonin back to 30 ppm, doesn't that just mean that after a few weeks ssris are just keeping our utilized serotonin levels at the normal standard pre-drug amount? Meaning we now need the drug just to have a normal amount of serotonin which would mean the extra serotonin (+10 ppm) was only in our system for a few weeks during startup (and hence the symptoms) until the body adapted.

 

The whole insulin comparison that psychiatrists like to use then seems like a false simile. Low insulin is testable and the treatment effects is immediate, whereas serotonin levels are neither testable nor immediately effective when increased.

 

I will be the first to admit I do not fully understand the inner workings of pharmaceuticals within the human body. But even in my overly simplistic aforementioned analysis I think I brought up a fair point. Especially in regards to the whole ssri/insulin comparison.

 

 

 

 

[Ariel]

@Kaervin

Hi there,

3 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

I seem to be stabilizing at my current dose. My sleep has improved and that has been a significant factor in decreasing my stress level.

So pleased for you about this positive development. 

 

Thank you for your kindness in my thread. Means a lot. 

It's so lovely to have you on SA. I appreciate the supportive presence you contribute to the community. 

 

Healing is happening <3

A. 

[Onmyway]

1 minute ago, Kaervin said:

Just a minor update. I seem to be stabilizing at my current dose. My sleep has improved and that has been a significant factor in decreasing my stress level.

 

A shout out to all those who shared their advice about improving sleep in withdrawal, as it has helped tremendously.

 

While I work as was thinking about how ssris operate. They increase the amount of serotonin flowing in the body, and the body adapts by downregulating serotonin receptors over time.  So my question is this. 

 

If normal serotonin is 30 ppm (made up #) and ssris work by increasing it to 40 ppm, but after several weeks the body downregulates receptors to bring the utilized serotonin back to 30 ppm, doesn't that just mean that after a few weeks ssris are just keeping our utilized serotonin levels at the normal standard pre-drug amount? Meaning we now need the drug just to have a normal amount of serotonin which would mean the extra serotonin (+10 ppm) was only in our system for a few weeks during startup (and hence the symptoms) until the body adapted.

 

The whole insulin comparison that psychiatrists like to use then seems like a false simile. Low insulin is testable and the treatment effects is immediate, whereas srris are neither testable nor immediately effective.

 

I will be the first to admit I do not fully understand the inner workings of pharmaceuticals with the body. But even in my overly simplistic aforementioned analysis I think I brought up a fair point. Especially in regards to the whole ssri/insulin comparison.

 

 

 

 

Great news on the improvements @Kaervin! Further holding will consolidate the changes! 

 

Nobody really knows how these drugs affect the brain very well. Down regulation is one avenue of adaptation, we think but it doesn't take account of the complexity of the nervous system. Serotonin impacts the production of dopamine and vice versa, then they impact other hormones and neurotransmitters that we don't even know about so when we flush the system with extra serotonin we are starting a cascade of changes that need to be reversed eventually. Genes are turned on and off, enzymes produced, other systems impacted. The brain is a fine tuned complex machine and we're just treating it as if it's a single thing. The analogy to insulin is faulty at multiple levels. It's there to guilt people - it's designed to create an equivalency between diabetes and mental health issues - partly to justify the need to recognize mental health issues as similar to physical issues and then drug them. But if you think mental health issues are different from diabetes then you're a horrible person, the story goes. I had this argument with a friend who wanted time off for MH issues but needed to argue that they were "real" issues. Drugs justify that. Also for employers, if you're not taking the drugs then you're not really sick. It's a bigger systemic issue... And not just the medical system.

 

anyone who claims that ADs are like insulin should send me a machine to measure my Serotonin levels. Or whatever other chemical in my brain they want to play with.

[Kaervin]

18 minutes ago, Ariel said:

@Kaervin

Hi there,

So pleased for you about this positive development. 

 

Thank you for your kindness in my thread. Means a lot. 

It's so lovely to have you on SA. I appreciate the supportive presence you contribute to the community. 

 

Healing is happening ❤️

A. 

Right back at you Ariel! I think the best thing to do is to post any positive progress whenever possible, no matter how small. The forum tends to skew more towards the negative aspects of withdrawal. Which is understandable as when feeling better most people are probably not in need of support and out doing other things (aka living life) instead of being on here.

 

I feel that may give the impression to new members, or even longer term ones, that withdrawal is nonstop suffering. I just want to balance out my own negative experiences with positive ones as references I can use whenever i hit a wave to remind myself that my journey hasn't been 100% horror.

 

Thank you for your support. Your presence on this site is greatly appreciated by many. Punctuating suffering with a dose of humor seems to be your style, of which I would like to emulate. 

 

I actually had a lot more to add above my improved situation but I wasted my precious brain resources on that srri analysis and the brain fog is taking hold 😅 

[Ariel]

16 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

I actually had a lot more to add above my improved situation but I wasted my precious brain resources on that srri analysis and the brain fog is taking hold 😅 

 

I hear you @Kaervin we're on a brain budget! 

I'm constantly like, whoops how did I already spend my allowance?!

 

WD classic -- I'd write more about how my brain's been feeling less tired except my brain's too tired to write about it

 

[Kaervin]

19 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

anyone who claims that ADs are like insulin should send me a machine to measure my Serotonin levels. Or whatever other chemical in my brain they want to play with.

I hear ya! (Er.. read ya). It gets tiring arguing with other people that assume these are just happy pills that can be started/stopped at a moments notice. Even more tiring when arguing with medical professionals as they seem to discount our experiences because we are not 'experts' and the rule book says our symptoms and length of withdrawal doesn't exist.

 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Kaervin said:

The whole insulin comparison that psychiatrists like to use then seems like a false simile.

 

It has only ever been a theory that many still believe to be true.  It was debunked several decades ago.

 

again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

 

Here is the link to the search results for Research Papers which contain "chemical imbalance" in SA's forum:  From journals and scientific sources:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q="chemical imbalance"

 

The way I understand it is that when we take a psychiatric drug it is introducing chemicals into the brain (I don't worry about what chemical is doing what).  The brain is always trying to regain homeostasis, so when we take an AD (chemical/s) the brain immediately changes whatever it needs to change; adapts to getting the drug.  When we take the drug away too quickly the brain has to get used to not getting as much/any of the drug (chemical/s) and again makes whatever changes it needs to make.  This is what causes withdrawal symptoms; it is because the brain is busy trying to work things out and, in most instances, the more drug you take a way in one go the worse withdrawal symptoms you can experience.

 

The idea of tapering is to take the drug away a little at a time so that the brain only has to make small adjustments each time.

 

This topic has some links to information which I found very helpful:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

If you haven't already done so, I suggest you watch this video:

 

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

17 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Nobody really knows how these drugs affect the brain very well. Down regulation is one avenue of adaptation, we think but it doesn't take account of the complexity of the nervous system. Serotonin impacts the production of dopamine and vice versa, then they impact other hormones and neurotransmitters that we don't even know about so when we flush the system with extra serotonin we are starting a cascade of changes that need to be reversed eventually. Genes are turned on and off, enzymes produced, other systems impacted.

Hi @Onmyway and @Kaervin, sorry for cluttering introduction Kaervin, but I find your correspondence fascinating. I am so glad you wrote this Onmyway. There is strange mismatch between different branches of the cognitive sciences and psychiatry as a science. Generally the cognitive sciences acknowledge that we don't know very much about how the CNS is working. We have small snippets of knowledge but no generel knowledge about the most basic functions. For example we don't know how information is stored (it is certainly not stored as 0 and 1 in some region of the brain, and the electro-chemical explanation is just a truism) and we don't know how we retrieve it. Imagine a little red car. Good. Nobody knows how the three of us just did that. And the cognitive sciences is honest about that, but they view it as fascinating question. Then we have psychiatry. Remove L-tryptophan from the diet of poor medical students, serotonin is slowly depleted, and some of the medical students are now not only poor but also depressed. But then psychiatry goes on to conclude that not only does the lack of L-tryptophan in the diet cause serotonin depletion and then depression, but also when we observe depression it is caused by serotonin depletion. Remove the breaks from cars, observe them crash, and then conclude, that real life car crashes are caused by missing breaks. A child of five would know you can't infer like that, but - to paraphrase G. Marx - since there are no five year old children in the psychiatry profession the serotonin-thesis sort of slipped through the cracks. Logical blunders like this happens all time in science, nothing to see here, move along, but what I don't get is my own stupidity. Why did I believe my psychiatrists pseudo explanation at the time? It is almost 20 years ago, and I honestly can't remember. The only good explanation I have is sort of nefarious: I was morbidly depressed at the time and that made me an easy target. Like a shipwrecked sailor willing to drink saltwater. So in that framework the reason modern psychiatry can get away with this level of pseudo science is that clientele is in dire straits. That still leaves the question why I took ADs for 20 years. I was not depressed the whole time. I had my moments of clarity, but I never used those windows to evaluate my AD-(ab)use. There is some arguments in favor of Breggins spell-binding thesis, but still in my case it didn't feel like spellbinding, not the way my really beautiful math teacher in 8th grade made calculus my main obsession for a whole summer. In my case I think it was more like "finally some calm, don't rock the boat"-feeling. In @ChessieCat words, a homeostasis with ADs in the mix was achieved, and I would under no circumstances disturb it. What I apparantly didn't grasp was that a homeostasis dependent on ADs is not stable in the long run. 

[OldDodgy]

@Mirtazapine20mg

 

Interesting post!! 
 

A quick question—- how long does PAWS related to mirtazipine effect us?
 

I came off 18 months ago at a reasonable pace but have been left with very debilitating GAD. I cant find any references to explain this or robust ways of overcoming it, except for the natural healing methods as advised by @Onmyway and others. 
 

Best wishes 

 

OD 

[Kaervin]

18 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

The idea of tapering is to take the drug away a little at a time so that the brain only has to make small adjustments each time.

 

This topic has some links to information which I found very helpful:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

I found this fascinating. I was unfamiliar with SERT.

 

Linear decreases in dose will actually hit you with exponentially increasing drops in SERT occupancy, particularly drops between the minimum therapeutic dose and 0

 

All the more reason for me to go with using a compound pharmacy. Linear cuts will ultimately catch up to me no matter how long I hold as even though a hypothetical cut of 1 mg from 10 mg is only 10%, that same cut from 2 mg to 1 mg is 50%.

 

I wonder how many people going on ADs for the first time didn't realize how acquainted they would become with mathematics, percentages, cutting/weighing pills, etc.. just to come off of them with the least amount of disruption.

 

 

[Kaervin]

7 hours ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

Why did I believe my psychiatrists pseudo explanation at the time? It is almost 20 years ago, and I honestly can't remember. The only good explanation I have is sort of nefarious: I was morbidly depressed at the time and that made me an easy target. Like a shipwrecked sailor willing to drink saltwater.

I think that is a good analogy. Quite the crux of the matter as well. In my case I was in such a dark hopeless pit of despair that I felt I had nothing to lose by trying an AD. It was right after the death of my mother and fiance as well as over a year into my benzo/alcohol recovery.

 

From 2012 onward I started living a normal life, but couldn't shake the feeling that I would eventually have to pay the piper and kept pushing the option to stop/taper off the ADs. The further I kicked the can down the road, the longer it would take for me to walk back to where I needed to be. That goes back to what you said about a homeostasis on ADs would not work in the long run.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience and analogies. I never found calculus quite as intriguing as you, but I have always held a love for math.

 

A note to the mods: I currently don't mind any posts from other members on this thread that are not about me. I am currently not in need of support and general relative discussion is fine atm.

[Kaervin]

7 hours ago, OldDodgy said:

@Mirtazapine20mg

 

Interesting post!! 
 

A quick question—- how long does PAWS related to mirtazipine effect us?
 

I came off 18 months ago at a reasonable pace but have been left with very debilitating GAD. I cant find any references to explain this or robust ways of overcoming it, except for the natural healing methods as advised by @Onmyway and others. 
 

Best wishes 

 

OD 

From my own experience with my benzo/alcohol recovery, it took about 2 years to feel mostly recovered. During those2 years I went from being functional to being hit with debilitating symptoms to where I was unable to go to class or work in 4 to 6 week chunks. Last time I used alcohol was mid December 2010. Worst wave was April 2012. 6 weeks of terror, dropped out of nursing school even though I had the highest grades in class.

 

The good news is that things always improved dramatically after every rough wave. After about 2 years things leveled out. Some other people I know suffered a lot for a year or 2 and then woke up one morning and felt changed for the better. Others, it was more gradual. In my case it felt like one step forward, two steps back. Never knew what to expect from one month to the next. 

 

The longer-term PAWS members I knew only delt with minor persistent symptoms after a few years. So from my own observations the first 2 years seem to be the Wild Card.

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi Kaervin, thank you for your kind reply. I actually read your introduction some time ago, and touched me very much. Again, it wasn't my intention to clutter your introduction, I just found your consideration about SSRis and ADs in general very interessing. 

53 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

From 2012 onward I started living a normal life, but couldn't shake the feeling that I would eventually have to pay the piper and kept pushing the option to stop/taper off the ADs.

Oh, do I know the feeling of pushing the decision to go off into the future. Support and thoughts from Denmark 🙂

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Kaervin said:

I wonder how many people going on ADs for the first time didn't realize how acquainted they would become with mathematics, percentages, cutting/weighing pills, etc.. just to come off of them with the least amount of disruption.

 

Crazy! 🤪

 

I because very good at using Excel spreadsheet to work out how many capsules of a particular dose I would need for my taper.

 

And opening capsules, graduated cylinders, syringes.  I never did get myself a lab coat to wear whilst creating my concoctions.

 

Every now and then I would think how ridiculous it all was and just shake my head with a wry smile. 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Kaervin said:

A note to the mods: I currently don't mind any posts from other members on this thread that are not about me. I am currently not in need of support and general relative discussion is fine atm.

 

Thank you for advising of this.

 

However, if you ever do need assistance, please be sure to post clearly that you do.

[Kaervin]

17 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

And opening capsules, graduated cylinders, syringes.  I never did get myself a lab coat to wear whilst creating my concoctions.

I got a good chuckle out of this, thank you 😉 it reminded me of a chemistry teacher I had in 10th grade. She was an elderly lady who was very much into chemistry. When she took a day off to go to a baseball game, I had trouble imagining her actually enjoying the game without standing in the bleachers mixing chemicals and using a bunsen burner.

 

On another note, I was advised to hold dose where I am at for 3 months. I would really like to get started with my taper as I know that will be a lengthy process. Is 3 months the general guideline or should I only wait that long if I dont feel I have totally stabilised. I have been on ADs for 10 years so I figure a few more months to get started won't be a big deal. It just feels like I am not accomplishing anything right now.

 

Chessie, you were on ADs over twice as long as me and are now 7 months off. If you could put a % on how recovered you are what would it be?

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Kaervin said:

I was advised to hold dose where I am at for 3 months. I would really like to get started with my taper as I know that will be a lengthy process. Is 3 months the general guideline or should I only wait that long if I dont feel I have totally stabilised.

 

It's because of this 50% reduction that you made in March this year:

 

2021: Sertraline 25 mgs

2022: Mar. Cut dose down to 12.5

 

It is better to hold for longer than to risk reducing too soon.  It's better to start from a strong foundation.  And as you said, in the scheme of things a few more months will not make much difference.  I needed to get my dose down quickly due to mild serotonin toxicity.  Once I got to 50mg (which was a tablet) I did a 3 month hold, and when I got to 20mg I had plenty of capsules left over so I did a 7 week hold.

 

4 hours ago, Kaervin said:

Chessie, you were on ADs over twice as long as me and are now 7 months off. If you could put a % on how recovered you are what would it be?

 

It is difficult to say if I am experiencing anything to do with withdrawal because I have unrelated health issues but there is nothing that I would say is definitely withdrawal but there is a possibility that there is some withdrawal.  The majority of my taper was fairly smooth.

 

My posts about my post 0 experience start at this post:

 

chessiecat-so-im-not-the-only-one-pristiq-desvenlafaxine