Kaervin: 10 years on ADs, fear of letting go

[Kaervin]

Hello everyone, my name is Greg. 

 

My journey started back in 08. My gf/fiance was battling cancer since '04 and things were stable. In 2008 my mother got diagnosed with cancer and passed that same year. I was put on klonopin to deal with anxiety and stress. In Dec. 2009 my fiance lost her battle to cancer and I cold turkeyed klonopin and substituted with heavy drinking. Around Dec. 2010 the drinking caught up to me and I stopped. From 2011 to 2012 I went through severe benzo withdrawal that was held back or made worse by my alcohol use.

 

I had the usual windows and waves, but in spring of 2012 it was so bad, I felt I needed to try an AD to save my life. I don't know if sertraline actually worked or if within 4 weeks my bad wave finally ended on its own. But it appeared my benzo withdrawal was over by summer 2012.

 

I switched ADs over the years, as I felt emotional numbness or creeping anhedonia come about. The switches weren't always equivalent.

100 mgs of Zoloft to 10 mgs of Lexapro. 10 mgs of Lex to 20mgs. 20 mgs of Lex to 20 mgs of Prozac. Back to 20 mgs of Lexpro and then finally switched to 25 mgs of Zoloft about 1 year ago.

 

I am currently on 12.5mgs of Zoloft. And have been for 3 months. I plan on tapering this last 12.5 mgs as slow as I can. I have ptsd of sorts from when I quit benzos. Unlike back in 2010 to 12 when I was a college student living at home, I now have a mortgage and loving wife. I am terrified of what happened back during my benzo withdrawal and that is making it hard to come off the AD.

 

Anyone else with 10+ years of AD use have any positive experiences to share? I am well aware that each person is unique physiologically and no experiences can mirror what I will be experiencing.

 

Currently experiencing mild anxiety, lack of interest in activities and low energy level.

 

 

[Onmyway]

Dear @Kaervin, 

welcome to SA. I am sorry you have had such a difficult time with coming off of benzos and then being on various meds. Can you help us understand your history by providing your drug signature please? Here are the instructions: 

How to List Drug History in Signature - Introductions and updates - Surviving Antidepressants

 

As you know we recommend tapering at no more than 10% of your previous dose every four weeks. Here are some FAQs on tapering. 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Here is a good video to watch on AD withdrawal to educate yourself. You are probably familiar with most of the stuff already from your benzo wd but it can't hurt. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSjYH044-2Q

 

Lots of people come off of these drugs successfully. Here is a list of our success stories. 

Success stories: Recovery from psychiatric drug withdrawal - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Hope your taper goes uneventfully and you are off of these drugs successfully. The fact that you have good support in your spouse can make this much easier. 

 

OMW

[Kaervin]

Omw, thank you so much for helping me out.

 

After switching from 20 mgs of Escitalopram to 25 mgs of Sertraline over one year ago and not experiencing hardly any negative effects, I guess I became somewhat confident that my body would handle AD withdrawal better than benzo. Crossover-wise I believe that was equivalent to almost a 75% cut made overnight.

 

It is only now after 3 months on 12.5 mgs sertraline (50% cut) that everything is starting to fall apart. Hot/cold intolerance, depression, burning sensation in extremities. I was doing fine until about a week ago.

 

Back at my worst in 2012 I was vomiting almost every morning from the cortisol spikes, and living off ginger root tea and chamomile. Could not work nor go to class for 2 month straight. Went from 180 lbs to 140. I think I am working myself up that the horror of 2012 is coming back. Mentally I am back to living minute to minute just like I was back then. 

 

I have a lot of info to read up on and success stories to help bolster my will to get through this. The fear of the unknown of what lies ahead of me these next few months is troubling. 

 

Currently debating on whether I should go back to 25 mgs and taper slowly, or stick it out at 12.5 mgs until this wave ends and taper slowly. 

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Kaervin said:

Currently debating on whether I should go back to 25 mgs and taper slowly, or stick it out at 12.5 mgs until this wave ends and taper slowly. 

 

Please do not return to 25mg.  It might be too high a dose.  You have been on the lower dose for 3 months now.  If you decide to updose SA would suggest a very small increase, possibly only 1mg to 13.5mg.

 

For most ADs it takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level/steady state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  If you do updose you would need to be patient and try to stay calm as the level of the drug builds up in your system.  When we panic we can make bad decisions and might end up making things worse.

 

During the time you are at a lower dose the brain adapts to getting less of the drug.  If you go back to the previous dose it might be too much and it might make things worse.  When making an increase SA suggests increasing by a small amount and gradually increase if needed instead of risking taking too much.  This is because there is no way to know how much adaptation the brain has made during the time on the lower dose.  The brain likes consistency and only small changes at a time, just like tapering the drug, but when increasing you need to make smaller increments than if you were reducing.

 

Much of the information in Post #1 relates to updosing as well as reinstatement:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Also see the following:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And Brassmonkey talks more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

[Kaervin]

22 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

For most ADs it takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level/steady state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  If you do updose you would need to be patient and try to stay calm as the level of the drug builds up in your system.  When we panic we can make bad decisions and might end up making things worse.

Very true. In my haste I was treating updosing as similar to when starting the medication. Back in 2012 I started at 12.5 for one week, then added another 12.5 each week until I got to 50 and stayed there for several months. 

 

In my stressed out state I viewed it as if I were starting the medication over again and no different than simply increasing the dose if the lower dose became ineffective. But I know things are different now. And the brain has made changes to compensate for the loss of half the med. Changes that would probably not welcome the return to the previous dose. There is a probability that I may acclimate back to 25mgs with little trouble, but the potential risk for greater disaster renders that route untenable in the light of my circumstance.

 

Thank you for that input. I am going to consult with my doctor about moving forward at a slow pace, possibly using a compounding pharmacy nearby and doing 10% monthly cuts.

 

When feeling horrible, it is hard to fight against all the thoughts about how to mitigate the withdrawal effects as quickly as possible. 

[ChessieCat]

24 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

Thank you for that input. I am going to consult with my doctor about moving forward at a slow pace,

 

My suggestion would be to hold for at least another 3 months before you consider making another reduction.

 

If the doctor says something like "I think you could go faster" be assertive without being combative and say something like yes some people might be able to go faster, but I would prefer to go at my own pace so that I can minimise withdrawal symptoms.  Remember that the reducing the drug too quickly is not going to affect the doctor, it will affect you.

 

My doctor knew I was tapering ~10%/~4 weekly and I said to him one day "I realise that most people are probably able to get off their drug with no problems" and his response:  shaking his head slowly from side to side he very quietly said "not many" (if I hadn't been looking at him I might not have heard/seen what I did).  It was exciting to see him after 6 years (I had seen other doctors in the interim) and tell him that I was completely off my drug.

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

[Kaervin]

4 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

My suggestion would be to hold for at least another 3 months before you consider making another reduction.

Thank you! And yes, having been on an AD for 10 years, my doctor should have no qualms with my chosen reduction rate. Taking another year go get off the medication is nothing considering I would probably be on this med for the rest of my life had I not chosen to get off.

 

While many doctors are clueless as to the full extent of psychiatric med withdrawal symptom duration, my time participating in a benzo group back in 2011-12 has taught me that taking an "anti-doctor" stance is counterproductive (the site was not anti-doctor and preferred members use suggestions over advice). You either have to find a doctor willing to work with you or be more willing to assert your right to how you want your treatment to progress.

 

I almost forgot just how much typing things out can ease the stress. Seeing what other people have to say also helps me get my situation back into a perspective of manageable.

[ChessieCat]

4 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

Taking another year go get off the medication is nothing considering I would probably be on this med for the rest of my life had I not chosen to get off.

 

It may take longer than 1 year, but remember that every reduction is less drug that you are taking and it is heading in the right direction of being off completely.  I had been taking an AD for 25+ years and it took me 6 years to get off 100mg Pristiq, but it was worth taking the time to do it that way.  I've now been off successfully for 6 months.  When I arrived at SA my goal was to get to 50mg because I was experiencing mild serotonin syndrome.  Then after learning what I did about the drugs I decided to keep going and see how low I could get, and I kept going.

[Onmyway]

10 hours ago, Kaervin said:

Omw, thank you so much for helping me out.

 

After switching from 20 mgs of Escitalopram to 25 mgs of Sertraline over one year ago and not experiencing hardly any negative effects, I guess I became somewhat confident that my body would handle AD withdrawal better than benzo. Crossover-wise I believe that was equivalent to almost a 75% cut made overnight.

 

It is only now after 3 months on 12.5 mgs sertraline (50% cut) that everything is starting to fall apart. Hot/cold intolerance, depression, burning sensation in extremities. I was doing fine until about a week ago.

 

Back at my worst in 2012 I was vomiting almost every morning from the cortisol spikes, and living off ginger root tea and chamomile. Could not work nor go to class for 2 month straight. Went from 180 lbs to 140. I think I am working myself up that the horror of 2012 is coming back. Mentally I am back to living minute to minute just like I was back then. 

 

I have a lot of info to read up on and success stories to help bolster my will to get through this. The fear of the unknown of what lies ahead of me these next few months is troubling. 

 

Currently debating on whether I should go back to 25 mgs and taper slowly, or stick it out at 12.5 mgs until this wave ends and taper slowly. 

Hi @Kaervin, 

we find that the more times one comes off of drugs (or skips doses and goes into mini acute withdrawal) the worse their subsequent tapers can get. The brain just becomes sensitized to even small changes, so that is why switching drugs might not be difficult in the beginning but can get difficult in subsequent tapers. It doesn't mean you can't get off of the drugs, just means that you need to be more cautious and slower in your taper. It is also possible that if you were on benzos when you were doing the previous switches, it may have 'covered' some of the symptoms. 

 

As you know we do not recommend more than a 10% cut even for ADs - i.e. same rules as benzo tapering apply. Not sure if you have seen the articles on why that is important. Here are some links. 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage? - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

 

You might even consider a micro-taper.

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

 

I know your experience has been bad with benzos but it doesn't mean that with a proper slow taper this will be the same - you are now better informed, will take breaks (hold) if/when symptoms  get difficult and have much better support. I am optimistic that this one is going to go much easier because from now on you will do it right. 

 

I suggest that you do not make any changes for a long while now since that 50% cut has given you some symptoms. Lower doses are generally harder and you need to be more cautious but you can do this and we are here to walk beside you on this journey! 
OMW

[ChessieCat]

I suggest that you watch this video:

 

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

[Kaervin]

4 hours ago, Onmyway said:

I suggest that you do not make any changes for a long while now since that 50% cut has given you some symptoms. Lower doses are generally harder and you need to be more cautious but you can do this and we are here to walk beside you on this journey! 
OMW

Thanks. I plan on holding fast until I stabilize back to the point of being able to function. Just like ChessieCat suggested, I have decided to stay where I am at for a few months and will hopefully resume my reductions by fall. 

 

My benzo experience was a cold turkey followed by binge drinking to cover up the symptoms. Both rather disastrous choices to put my body through. Had I just done small cuts instead I probably wouldn't have gotten so bad to the point of wanting to jump on an AD to begin with.

 

Going from 20mg of Lexapro to 25 mgs of Zoloft overnight 1 year ago caused barely any issues. So I thought I would have been one of the lucky ones. You know what i am talking about, the people that say "oh I was on such and such an AD for 5 years and came off in 4 weeks with no problems". And while I don't doubt such people exist, I think doctors, as well as friends and family, seem to think that should be the normal reaction for everyone coming off ADs.

 

I tend to keep my suffering and struggles to myself. Only yesterday did I inform a close sister as to what I am dealing with atm. It feels less scary knowing I am not alone and that many of you had walked this path before or are currently walking it as well. 

[Kaervin]

5 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I suggest that you watch this video:

 

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

I felt relieved when Dr Horowitz acknowledged AD WD induced akathisia as possibly one of the worst symptoms. That is probably the one symptom I can tolerate the least. 

 

Everything this man says makes so much sense and validates the words of those of us who are suffering. I am going to share this video with people around me that don't quite understand what is going on. I just don't have the mental faculties right now to argue or explain myself exactly what is going on.

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Kaervin said:

I am going to share this video with people around me that don't quite understand what is going on.

 

That's a good idea.

 

Because of what you said I have posted a link to the video in Post #1 of this topic:

 

helping-family-understand

 

[Onmyway]

19 hours ago, Kaervin said:

I tend to keep my suffering and struggles to myself. Only yesterday did I inform a close sister as to what I am dealing with atm. It feels less scary knowing I am not alone and that many of you had walked this path before or are currently walking it as well. 

I think the worry is that people will judge us for being addicted but I feel like people are more sensitive and accepting with prescription drug dependence esp after the opioid crisis. I don't see a reason to share with everyone but I also don't see a reason to be ashamed by our experience - none of us chose to be in this situation. As I have shared with people around me many more have come out with their stories of AD withdrawal to me. They also didn't tell anyone. I had one friend who had lost his scholarship and dropped out in college and years later we reconnected and I told him about this and he told me the reason why he dropped out - AD withdrawal incapacitated him for 3 years. None of us knew! There are many more of us out there than we know about. I also share about my experience more openly because I want people who are on these drugs to know to be more careful. People who are on ADs are sometimes resistant to the message. It is ok with me - I just hope that when they are hit with WD they remember and come to me for advice. 

[Kaervin]

16 hours ago, Onmyway said:

I just hope that when they are hit with WD they remember and come to me for advice. 

It's interesting that you say that. When I said I was sharing my current struggle with a close sister, she was one that actually didn't believe the symptoms I was having from benzo withdrawal back in 2012 could have been as intense or long lasting as they appeared. In 2016 she was prescribed Ativan for a couple of months by doctor for stress. Decided to stop and ended up in ER. Then spent almost 2 years tapering and seeking out my support and reassurance. 

 

My sister is now 100% supportive of me getting off this med and is checking up on me daily. My wife is as supportive as she can be, but being a nurse she also reminds me that the majority of her patients come off ADs no problem. I know the truth is more nuanced. It's just frustrating when people, especially loved ones, think we are exaggerating our symptoms.

 

If 50 million Americans got off ADs this year and only 2% had trouble with severe withdrawal, that is still 1 million humans. When you focus only on the percentage you miss the real scope and reduce the unlucky sufferers to nothing more than statistical outliers.

[ChessieCat]

7 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

If 50 million Americans got off ADs this year and only 2% had trouble with severe withdrawal, that is still 1 million humans.

 

Even if it is only 1 person, that is one too many.

[Kaervin]

5 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Even if it is only 1 person, that is one too many.

I share that sentiment. The problem is doctors, acquaintances, etc.. tend to use statistics against those of us who are suffering. Yes a decent chunk of people may be able to get off of ADs with no major problems, but how many "relapsed" when in actuality a belated discontinuation syndrome (as they like to call it) was to blame.

 

[Kaervin]

Update to my intro/blog:

 

- Two nights now with practically no sleep.

-Going to try adding magnesium citrate in addition to chamomile into nightly routine. 

 

Want to avoid taking diphenhydramine if possible. Not sure when I should be worried about how much sleep I am not getting (3 days, 4? 5?). 

[Onmyway]

50 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

It's interesting that you say that. When I said I was sharing my current struggle with a close sister, she was one that actually didn't believe the symptoms I was having from benzo withdrawal back in 2012 could have been as intense or long lasting as they appeared. In 2016 she was prescribed Ativan for a couple of months by doctor for stress. Decided to stop and ended up in ER. Then spent almost 2 years tapering and seeking out my support and reassurance. 

 

My sister is now 100% supportive of me getting off this med and is checking up on me daily. My wife is as supportive as she can be, but being a nurse she also reminds me that the majority of her patients come off ADs no problem. I know the truth is more nuanced. It's just frustrating when people, especially loved ones, think we are exaggerating our symptoms.

 

If 50 million Americans got off ADs this year and only 2% had trouble with severe withdrawal, that is still 1 million humans. When you focus only on the percentage you miss the real scope and reduce the unlucky sufferers to nothing more than statistical outliers.

@Kaervin you might want to send your wife to this website. This paper was published in the Lancet Psychiatry. You may also wish to direct her to the video in ChessieCat's signature. Many health professionals don't connect about symptoms that patients have to withdrawal - your wife likely overlooked many withdrawals and either attributed it to a condition returning or to something new. If Mark's paper hadn't come out I wouldn't have known that my insomnia was due to withdrawal or that my nausea is not caused by something else. 

 

Tapering of SSRI treatment to mitigate withdrawal symptoms - Dr Mark Horowitz, MBBS PhD 

 

I had a good and highly educated friend who I told about my withdrawal. He is biased and didn't say I was making it up but did say that likely I am an exception. Fast forward 2 years and his wife is prescribed venlafaxine. They, of course, did not heed my warning to stay away from it. Luckily she took it for a short time and her withdrawals were not as long but they were severe and he is now a believer. Tbh, we are so used to disregard people's complaints, esp MH patients' complaints as 'made up' that until you know someone you trust to whom this has happened, or until it happens to you it doesn't register. Also, many people have short histories with ADs and they are able to come off of them without much issue the first time. Or don't realize that the symptoms that crop up 2 month later can be related. The first time I came off of ADs I had severe brain zaps and other issues but they abated after a month or two - the **** hit the fan 3 months later when I had anger and rage and constant tears. But at the time I attributed it to starting a new school.  Maybe in our lifetime we will see the tide turn on these drugs in the US as well - the UK has gotten better with a very active patient population supported by doctors like Mark Horowitz and David Healy. 

 

OMW

[TheFearfulFather]

Sleeping better the past few @Kaervin?

[Kaervin]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:21 PM, Onmyway said:

@Kaervin you might want to send your wife to this website. This paper was published in the Lancet Psychiatry. You may also wish to direct her to the video in ChessieCat's signature

I have, and it has made things alot easier between us. Thank you! 

 

I hope that in the future new guidelines are put in place so others don't have to go through this. ADs should be a last resort for severe forms of anxiety/depression, even then as a short term treatment. But people are ending up on them for years for simply telling their doctor they feel a little stressed. 

 

The main problem as you have pointed out is that many people don't notice how ADs affected them negatively until weeks or months off, leading to withdrawal symptoms that doctors attribute to a new anxiety or even bipolar disorder in people that are actually feeling symptoms of AD recovery. 

[Kaervin]

21 minutes ago, TheFearfulFather said:

Sleeping better the past few @Kaervin?

Better is a relative term heh. Yeah I guess i  since I managed 4 hours of interrupted sleep as opposed to 1 hour of straight sleep the previous nights. Are you having sleep issues as well currently?

[TheFearfulFather]

4 is better than 1, for sure! 
 

I have yet to experience any real sleep issues. I’ve yet to begin my taper though, and insomnia seems to be a very common effect during the process. 
 

Hope you can snag some Zs and tonight, friend! 

[Onmyway]

2 hours ago, Kaervin said:

I hope that in the future new guidelines are put in place so others don't have to go through this. ADs should be a last resort for severe forms of anxiety/depression, even then as a short term treatment. But people are ending up on them for years for simply telling their doctor they feel a little stressed. 

 

The main problem as you have pointed out is that many people don't notice how ADs affected them negatively until weeks or months off, leading to withdrawal symptoms that doctors attribute to a new anxiety or even bipolar disorder in people that are actually feeling symptoms of AD recovery. 

 

This will really knock your hat off - ADs are in fact no better than placebo on average. Or better but by such a small amount that the clinicians can't discern. Why are they approved then? Because the FDA requires that for a drug to be approved you only need two trials that show efficacy (even if small efficacy 2%? better than placebo? 10% better?) and you can run 1000 to get these two studies so if you are good with stats, you know that you can get that by chance. The negative result trials just don't count. Wait, there is actually more - ADs increase suicidal ideation and in young adults they increase suicides. There is a black box warning for that and despite it, these drugs are prescribed to young people. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/

 

Remember that Eliott Spitzer, a guy famous for paying call girls. He was the one who sued GSK and got that black box warning. How many lives did he save! 

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna5120989

 

Prozac was not approved in Germany for a year or more because the studies demonstrated that the drug increased suicides 

http://www.narpa.org/reference/prozac-revisited

 

Good news is that new research is changing guidelines in the UK after much advocacy by researchers and patients - you can look up David Healy, Mark Horowitz (UCL) etc. Their Twitter feeds are quite informative. The Royal College of Psychiatrists has included new guidelines for stopping antidepressants and Alto was a huge part of creating them. SA and our stories as part of it are making a huge difference not just for policy but also to understand what is happening during withdrawal (observational research), what regularities emerge across people. A lot of our recommendations actually come from stuff learned on these forums in addition to medical studies. 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/gps-told-to-avoid-offering-antidepressants/ar-AAR0Vnk?ocid=msedgntp

 

OMW

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Onmyway]

2 hours ago, Kaervin said:

Better is a relative term heh. Yeah I guess i  since I managed 4 hours of interrupted sleep as opposed to 1 hour of straight sleep the previous nights. Are you having sleep issues as well currently?

@Kaervin, 

have you read the tips of sleep from SA? Huge help for me was completely blacked-out windows or eye mask (to help with the cortisol morning) and also earplugs to tune out sounds that can startle you and cause terrors. 

Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

OMW

[Onmyway]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:51 PM, Kaervin said:

Update to my intro/blog:

 

- Two nights now with practically no sleep.

-Going to try adding magnesium citrate in addition to chamomile into nightly routine. 

 

Want to avoid taking diphenhydramine if possible. Not sure when I should be worried about how much sleep I am not getting (3 days, 4? 5?). 

 

You shouldn't be worried unless it impacts your functioning - i.e. I would avoid driving if you haven't slept for a few days or making big decisions. But your body can survive on very little sleep for a while. You end up taking micro-naps when the sleep debt is very high. I found sleep hypnosis tracks on Spotify and they allowed me 20-30 min sleep on the train a day and oh how delightful that was! 

[TheFearfulFather]

What do for work, @Kaervin? How has navigating the work world gone for you in the midst of WD? 

[Kaervin]

15 hours ago, Onmyway said:

 

You shouldn't be worried unless it impacts your functioning - i.e. I would avoid driving if you haven't slept for a few days or making big decisions. But your body can survive on very little sleep for a while. You end up taking micro-naps when the sleep debt is very high. I found sleep hypnosis tracks on Spotify and they allowed me 20-30 min sleep on the train a day and oh how delightful that was! 

Thanks, last night was pretty horrible again. Had some RLS, so going to get my iron checked soon. I have yet to actually try sleep hypnosis tracks. Right now I can manage to eventually fall asleep, buy I am waking up every 30 mins to change position.

 

And yes, I will not drive if I feel my focus is greatly affected. 

 

I was thinking about getting a massage soon to see if that helps with body tension. Since I read somewhere that some of our medications are stored in body fat/tissue, is it possible that a massage would release more sertraline into my body?

[Kaervin]

20 minutes ago, TheFearfulFather said:

What do for work, @Kaervin? How has navigating the work world gone for you in the midst of WD? 

I just returned back to work today. I take care of stray animals and need the finances that come along with that. Unlike during my first withdrawal when I needed to take 6 weeks off, I now have a mortgage and other responsibilities so there is some added pressure there. First withdrawal was a cold turkey though so I hope this is as bad as things get.

 

I do retail management btw. 

[Kaervin]

15 hours ago, Onmyway said:

@Kaervin, 

have you read the tips of sleep from SA? Huge help for me was completely blacked-out windows or eye mask (to help with the cortisol morning) and also earplugs to tune out sounds that can startle you and cause terrors. 

Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

OMW

I plan on trying this approach as well seeing as I usually fall asleep to youtube videos with earbuds. Not used to sleeping in total silence but that may be just what I need to do.

 

Thankfully my morning anxiety isn't too bad atm. Should it become I problem I will utilize all tips I have learned from this site. Fingers crossed 🤞 

[Onmyway]

11 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

Thanks, last night was pretty horrible again. Had some RLS, so going to get my iron checked soon. I have yet to actually try sleep hypnosis tracks. Right now I can manage to eventually fall asleep, buy I am waking up every 30 mins to change position.

 

And yes, I will not drive if I feel my focus is greatly affected. 

 

I was thinking about getting a massage soon to see if that helps with body tension. Since I read somewhere that some of our medications are stored in body fat/tissue, is it possible that a massage would release more sertraline into my body?

I wouldn't worry about massage releasing more drugs into the body. It's already in the body. One thing that people find with RLS is a weighted blanket. It is a common symptom of withdrawal, I think of it as a milder version of akathisia.

 

[Ariel]

Hello @Kaervin

Welcome to SA. 

 

It's great to see you hit the ground running here on site. Thank you for being so friendly and reaching out to support other members. This is part of what makes SA so special, when we come together to co-create a compassionate peer support community. 

 

18 minutes ago, Kaervin said:

I was thinking about getting a massage soon to see if that helps with body tension. Since I read somewhere that some of our medications are stored in body fat/tissue, is it possible that a massage would release more sertraline into my body?

 

I've had a variety of experiences with massage during WD. Very much a mixed bag. During the first two years the experiences were mostly positive. At the time I would occasionally see a body worker for very gentle massage and energy work, and this usually felt pretty supportive. I had already been working with this massage therapist (MT) for a couple of years, and I think that foundation of trust played a big part in what was good. Also, this MT is really gifted and had a good intuitive understanding of the nervous system, was good at gauging what my body needed (better than I could express at the time). What worked best was a gentle approach, focused on soothing and relaxing the muscles. No deep work or kneading or forcing, nothing manipulative. Later on in WD I had some unfortunate experiences with the same MT where our sessions triggered intense symptoms and waves, even trauma flashbacks. That's why I eventually stopped going. 

 

About a year later I experimented with biodynamic craniosacral therapy (CST) treatments. I was lucky enough to meet a few talented practitioners and had good experiences. Very relaxing and helps facilitate deep rest and release. One memorable session sent me into a wave that lasted a day, then the day after I had a short window that was among the best I've ever felt in all my years of WD to date. Who knows how or why, it's all very mysterious. If I were to try massage again today I'd go with the biodynamic CST and not regular massage. It's crucial to only use the biodynamic modality, in my opinion, as it's extremely gentle and not manipulative at all. I'm not sure I could handle regular massage right now, too intense, too stimulating/ activating. 

 

To answer your question about releasing chemicals into the body, I have no idea. My intuitive understanding of the waves/windows I've experienced in the wake of treatments is that this is related to therapeutic modalities of touch being very stimulating for the nervous system, incl. fascia. It's a lot of input and our WD bodies can react in all kinds of unexpected paradoxical ways. Sometimes I'd feel exhausted afterwards, sometimes I'd be wired and hyper. I definitely had strong reactions, no matter the cause. 

 

Just sharing my experience, this is not an official recommendation either way. If you decide to try a massage, please let us know how it goes. 

 

You might be interested in Massage therapy

 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Ariel

[Kaervin]

8 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

I wouldn't worry about massage releasing more drugs into the body. It's already in the body. One thing that people find with RLS is a weighted blanket. It is a common symptom of withdrawal, I think of it as a milder version of akathisia.

 

That might help actually! Only issue right now is that I sleep on top of covers due to heat intolerance. Might crank up the AC a bit. Also doesn't help that a foster cat likes to sleep next to me and I am focused on not rolling over on her.

[Kaervin]

@Ariel

 

Thank you for sharing your experience and insight into the matter. From what I read from that thread you posted, drinking lots of water seems essential. Also due to toxins being removed I may end up feeling a little worse afterwards before it makes me feel better. 

 

Last massage I had was a couples massage in Jamaica 2018 and felt no ill effects from it. Of course my body is in a different state right now so who knows. I think it would be best to go for a mild massage or CST as you mentioned. I will have to research local massage places. Only place in my area off the top of my head is a place that got busted for doing shady stuff with clients 😓 so i will check to see if some local chiropractors offer it.

[Ariel]

If you go for CST make sure it's biodynamic. You can do a certified practitioner search for your area: 

https://www.craniosacraltherapy.org/index.php?option=com_mcdirectorysearch&view=search&id=2000411#/

 

Biodynamic CST is not massage per se, but it's a very gentle, healing modality that I've found to be supportive for my WD experience. 

[Ariel]

Just found this thread: