rmce72a: Effexor withdrawal with Prozac bridge

[rmce72a]

I have to have a CT brain scan with contrast. Will the contrast dye cause worsening WD symptoms?

[FindRest]

10 hours ago, rmce72a said:

I have to have a CT brain scan with contrast. Will the contrast dye cause worsening WD symptoms?

I’ve had one with little to no worsening symptoms. Drink lots of water afterwards to help flush it out of your system. 

[rmce72a]

Just curious. Are there people who simply can't get off ADs and have to take them for life to have any quality of life? I am concerned about how difficult if not impossible it is for ultrarapid metabolizers such as myself. I have been reading some NIH research about ultrarapid metabolizers and how withdrawal is much harder in all respects. I also found it interesting to learn about the extreme sensitivities to everything we all experience. It certainly explains a lot about constant reactions I have always had to nearly everything. I have always just blamed it all on allergies. 

 

I am asking because I am still struggling so after 9 months and only being able to taper from 75 to 73 Effexor. I have daily symptoms ranging from extreme anxiety and tinnitus to nausea, dizziness, and extreme fatigue. I understand windows and waves, etc. but it just seems that I just can't move forward. Thank you.

[littlebird]

8 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

I am asking because I am still struggling so after 9 months and only being able to taper from 75 to 73 Effexor. I have daily symptoms ranging from extreme anxiety and tinnitus to nausea, dizziness, and extreme fatigue. I understand windows and waves, etc. but it just seems that I just can't move forward. Thank you.

 

I guess I'd just like to say that you are moving forward, you've made progress. Sounds like a super slow taper is what your body needs. I know the patience piece of meds is incredibly hard, I struggle with it all the time.

 

I also get feelings of "this is my forever" about meds, but I have to believe it's possible to get off (or at least drastically reduce) them. Otherwise I think I'd spiral downwards into despair, which I do sometimes, but the scenery down there stinks and it's way more fun to nudge myself to find a way to spiral upwards instead.

[rmce72a]

I appreciate your response, littlebird. I am just so tired of being sick for nearly 4 years (poop out symptoms+WD) that some days I just wonder if it's worth it. On days like this, I just want to give up and say "write me a prescription), but I suppose that's just the Effexor talking. Thank oyu, my dear, for the reality check. I do still wonder, though, if the fact that I am an ultrarapid metabolizer is a major factor.  Take care. 

[littlebird]

6 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

I am just so tired of being sick for nearly 4 years (poop out symptoms+WD) that some days I just wonder if it's worth it. On days like this, I just want to give up and say "write me a prescription), but I suppose that's just the Effexor talking.

 

7 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

I do still wonder, though, if the fact that I am an ultrarapid metabolizer is a major factor.

 

I would bet being an ultrarapid metabolizer would make this tougher. Only you can know if you need that prescription, or if your intuition is calling you to keep tapering. Either way, no matter what, all that matters is that you're listening to your body and doing what's it needs. Please affirm to yourself that you are doing it, bead by bead, step by step towards what's best for you. 

 

Hey, with the cocktail I came here with, I'm buckling up for years of med tapering as one of my hobbies. I still wonder all the time if doctors who said, "Some people need pills to live and that's normal" were right. Although the more I look into this, the more I think that tapering is the way for me. I want to know who I am without the influence of psych drugs.

[Shep]

9 hours ago, rmce72a said:

Just curious. Are there people who simply can't get off ADs and have to take them for life to have any quality of life? I am concerned about how difficult if not impossible it is for ultrarapid metabolizers such as myself. I have been reading some NIH research about ultrarapid metabolizers and how withdrawal is much harder in all respects. I also found it interesting to learn about the extreme sensitivities to everything we all experience. It certainly explains a lot about constant reactions I have always had to nearly everything. I have always just blamed it all on allergies. 

 

I am asking because I am still struggling so after 9 months and only being able to taper from 75 to 73 Effexor. I have daily symptoms ranging from extreme anxiety and tinnitus to nausea, dizziness, and extreme fatigue. I understand windows and waves, etc. but it just seems that I just can't move forward. Thank you.

 

Please see:

 

How does being a rapid or ultrarapid metabolizer affect tapering or withdrawal?

 

In that thread, Alto, the site owner, wrote:

 

On 2/13/2019 at 3:17 PM, Altostrata said:

 

The danger for rapid metabolizers is that they can handle such high doses of drugs without side effects, doctors may overlook the risk of gradual organ damage over time.

 

You are not taking a particularly high dose of mirtazapine.

 

This doesn't mean anything for tapering. You taper to the rate you can tolerate. If you get withdrawal symptoms, you taper more gradually.

 

Generally, these genetic tests are useful only to identify potential drug-drug interactions for drugs that you are considering taking or already taking. They don't indicate anything about withdrawal.

 

In your case, you've decreased your Effexor, so you're not on a dangerously high dose. Try not to psyche yourself out, Rmce. Go as slowly as you need to and hold as much as you need. 

[rmce72a]

Thank you both for your comments. Shep, I admit I am a bit skeptical about how these gene tests can be applied to WD. In fact, the NP who ordered the Genesight test for me more than a year ago suggested the Prozac bridge (drop Effexor to 37.5 and add Prozac) even though Prozac is in my red column due to the unpredictability of the CYP 450 and Cp 19 or something or other. Of course, I refused since I had read Alto's cautions about the Prozac bridge. In addition, I thought (but did not say to her) "Why in the world did you order a gene test and then prescribe something that is contrary to the test's results?" This was yet another reason to mistrust advice from med practitioners. 

[Altostrata]

2 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

In fact, the NP who ordered the Genesight test for me more than a year ago suggested the Prozac bridge (drop Effexor to 37.5 and add Prozac) even though Prozac is in my red column due to the unpredictability of the CYP 450 and Cp 19 or something or other.

 

Which demonstrates the lack of utility of the Genesight test.

[Bego82]

Dear @rmce72a,

 

I get what you’re going through. I had a quick withdrawal from Effexor ER and I’ve been through hell, and still am after two years. I also suffered from the eating problems, lost 20 kg in three months or so… brutal. I think that’s a sign that your central nervous system has had a good “scare” (does your diaphragm feel tight?), I wonder if your body is asking for stability. I would continue being extra careful and slow. Maybe adding a week of stabilisation every three or four weeks as in the Brassmonkey method would help?

 

I am currently considering taking Prozac myself as this is agony. I withdrew from 225mg to zero in a lapse of 6 weeks of so, after doctor’s advice, and although I’ve been improving I’m still very weak. I saw a psychiatrist who actually believes in withdrawal and is not trying to gaslight me into thinking that it’s depression/unresolved issues, as if I’d said that I saw an alien instead of having withdrawals… this is the third so called psychiatrist that I’ve seen since wd. 
 

So I basically wanted to say that I get you, that your symptoms make sense and that you’re doing really great by doing things slowly and listening to your body. You were lucky to find this forum on time! 
Oh I take supplements as well, aminoacids and lithium orotate have really helped me getting through, but it may not work for you who knows? I’ve also found fish oil helpful, especially in concentrations of above 400 DPA.

Feel free to ask anything and all the courage in the world for you. Remember that you are really strong, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. You can do this xx

[rmce72a]

Hello Bego82. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your response. I am getting pretty desperate, and I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I can't figure out why tapering is so very difficult. I count every bead in every capsule every day to get as close to the dose of the day before. I try to eat well, but I can't tolerate most foods or ANY supplements. Knowing this, I bought Nordic Naturals infant Omega 3 liquid, and I took the dose for a 10-20 pound baby. The day after the third dose,  my anxiety ramped up and I had severe diarrhea which is just now calming down. So no fish oil for now.

 

I have Googled SSRI's and patient reviews, and they are all mixed. If Genesight test says that Prozac is a no-go, I just don't know what else to do. I am in year 4 since the massive anxiety and other symptoms began, even though I have only been tapering since last May. Symptoms are still the same, except they were much worse when I tried to taper to 72.7 from 73 so I went back up. I cannot afford to lose any more weight. I have lost 31 pounds in 9 months, and I am starting to feel pretty weak. I force myself to eat oatmeal, baked chicken or beef, hard-boiled eggs, and green beans every day, but I am rarely hungry.

 

If I felt I were making any progress, all this would be easier to deal with, but I'm not sure that I am. The life and health I had always had are gone now. I am just trying to put one foot in front of the other and stay alive hoping for positive change at some point. (Sorry for being so gloomy)

Sometimes I think since I am so sensitive to meds that even the slight differences in dose from day-to-day with the bead counting may be contributing, but I'm not sure that I could do the weighing thing properly.

 

How do you manage your dosing? Your CNS is no doubt suffering from your fast WD from Effexor. Are you any better? Are you still taking the Mirt? How did that work for you?

 

Thank you again for the info and encouragement. I hope and pray that one day all of this hell we are living with be a distant memory for all of us here. Please take care and keep in touch. Thank you and hopes and prayers for your healing.  xo Rebecca

[rmce72a]

I have been thinking that perhaps one of my problems is that my doses from day to day is never the same by beading counting and I an verrrrry sensitive to meds .I count every 75 mg capsule and divide 75 by the number of beads in that capsule. I am trying to stay at 73. Dur to the bead count variations day to day, this week I have taken 73.15, 73.05, 72.95, 73.18, 73.04. Alto once said that this variation should make a difference, but with my extreme sensitivity, it may be a factor for me.

 

As a result, I have been considering weighing, but I have read the instructions and watched the videos, and the math and procedure seem confusing, and I'm so afraid of mis-dosing and making matters worse. Thoughts?

[rmce72a]

As is my daily habit, I am still trying to figure everything out and I have a questions. I've been reading all Alto's info about PAWS, and I'm wondering if I am there. Here is why. 

                     2018-No symptoms or problems. PCP direct switched me from Effexor 75 XR to Cymbalta 20 (I think)  No taper; just stopped Eff one day and started Cym the next. He did this following what seemed to be a heart scare (which I think was heat stroke) and cardiologist also put me on metoprolol that year.

                     2019-Symptoms began. Anxiety, panic attacks, depression, tinnitus, food intolerance, sleep problems, etc.  Read about tinnitus and that metoprolol can cause it, so I stopped meto.

 

                              Back to PCP who direct switched me back to Effexor 75, again with no tapers. Symptoms worsened.

 

                     2020-New PCP told me was probably GAD and I needed to up Effexor and I began counseling. Did not increase Effexor. No improvement.

 

                   2021-Continued counseling. No improvement except to learn strategies for dealing with my panic and anxiety. 

 

                  2022 Found Surviving Antidepressants and began slow taper in May. ((The rest is in my signature.)

 

My question is this. IF I am in PAWS, which seems like a distinct possibility, how does that affect my taper? Since I am down to 73 from 75 still with extreme symptoms, should I titrate up to 75 and start over?

 

I would appreciate any help. My anxiety is so bad. There may be nothing I can do, but understanding what is happening to me seems to bring me some degree of comfort. 

 

Thank you.

 

                    

 

[Catina7]

6 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

As is my daily habit, I am still trying to figure everything out and I have a questions. I've been reading all Alto's info about PAWS, and I'm wondering if I am there. Here is why. 

                     2018-No symptoms or problems. PCP direct switched me from Effexor 75 XR to Cymbalta 20 (I think)  No taper; just stopped Eff one day and started Cym the next. He did this following what seemed to be a heart scare (which I think was heat stroke) and cardiologist also put me on metoprolol that year.

                     2019-Symptoms began. Anxiety, panic attacks, depression, tinnitus, food intolerance, sleep problems, etc.  Read about tinnitus and that metoprolol can cause it, so I stopped meto.

 

                              Back to PCP who direct switched me back to Effexor 75, again with no tapers. Symptoms worsened.

 

                     2020-New PCP told me was probably GAD and I needed to up Effexor and I began counseling. Did not increase Effexor. No improvement.

 

                   2021-Continued counseling. No improvement except to learn strategies for dealing with my panic and anxiety. 

 

                  2022 Found Surviving Antidepressants and began slow taper in May. ((The rest is in my signature.)

 

My question is this. IF I am in PAWS, which seems like a distinct possibility, how does that affect my taper? Since I am down to 73 from 75 still with extreme symptoms, should I titrate up to 75 and start over?

 

I would appreciate any help. My anxiety is so bad. There may be nothing I can do, but understanding what is happening to me seems to bring me some degree of comfort. 

 

Thank you.

 

                    

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that all your problems started after your med switches.  It's smart that you're going back and trying to pinpoint where things went wrong.  I'm sure the mods and other more knowledgable people will be able to answer your question about whether you should titrate back up to 75 mg.  I can definitely relate to the extreme anxiety though; that's been my main symptom during my withdrawal.  For me, the more I fight against it, the worse it gets.  I open myself to it and fully accept what I'm feeling.  I remind myself that I'm perfectly safe and what I'm feeling is only temporary.  Finding something else to focus on really helps too whether it's playing a game, coloring, watching a movie, reading, etc.  Have you ever thought about acupuncture?  I've had it in the past and it was very relaxing to me.  EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) is another coping skill that helps me too.  I also take hot bubble baths, exercise, and just try to be gentle with myself.  I hope that you can find coping skills that will help you get through it.  You CAN get through this....and WILL!

[rmce72a]

As always, thank you for reaching out to me. It means so much and helps me. I try so hard to re-focus and keep busy, but almost any activity increases my anxiety. That's have sensitive I am right now. I just made my husband some instant pudding, and now my hands are shaky and tinnitus is higher. Go figure. From making pudding? 

 

I hope your day is calm and that you are able to find some peace today. I appreciate all your suggestions and will look into acupuncture. I also need to Google EFT and give it a try. I will try a little exercise, but anything beyond walking is usually too stimulating. I know all this sounds crazy, but it's the way the day goes for me. I will try ANYTHING (short of more drugs) to relieve symptoms enough to get through the day without feeling so miserable. 

 

You are a treasure, and I do so appreciate hearing from you. Take care. xo Rebecca

[Catina7]

57 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

As always, thank you for reaching out to me. It means so much and helps me. I try so hard to re-focus and keep busy, but almost any activity increases my anxiety. That's have sensitive I am right now. I just made my husband some instant pudding, and now my hands are shaky and tinnitus is higher. Go figure. From making pudding? 

 

I hope your day is calm and that you are able to find some peace today. I appreciate all your suggestions and will look into acupuncture. I also need to Google EFT and give it a try. I will try a little exercise, but anything beyond walking is usually too stimulating. I know all this sounds crazy, but it's the way the day goes for me. I will try ANYTHING (short of more drugs) to relieve symptoms enough to get through the day without feeling so miserable. 

 

You are a treasure, and I do so appreciate hearing from you. Take care. xo Rebecca

You don't sound crazy at all.  I completely understand!  There are things that are way too stimulating for me and I just can't do them.  Find what works for you.  I also do a vagus nerve reset before bed that is very helpful.  Also, on YouTube they have special music made in different frequencies to benefit and heal the brain.  I find that listening to music made in a calming frequency such as 432 Hz really helps.  I just discovered a good channel called PhiTribe that has lots of good music.  Just wanted to share some more things that have helped me that you can try for yourself.  The more coping skills we can learn, the better we'll be able to endure our distressing symptoms.  Keep HOPE alive and never give up!

[rmce72a]

OMG, what good suggestions. I will look up that music channel and also how to do vagus nerve reset. I have often wondered about vagus nerve connection to all this, especially with my tinnitus and compressed disc in back.

 

Thank you again, my dear. As usual, you are there for me and it means more than I can say. As I have said before, this site and my new friends here are my lifelines. Otherwise, I would feel that I am out in this small boat in a hurricane all alone. xoxo Rebecca

[Catina7]

 

[Catina7]

 

[Shep]

6 hours ago, rmce72a said:

Since I am down to 73 from 75 still with extreme symptoms, should I titrate up to 75 and start over?

 

 

Please do not go up that far. You haven't been at 75 mg since 2020, so your nervous system has adapted to the lower doses and may hyper-react to a higher dose. 

 

Quote

2018 Dr direct switched me from Effexor 75XR to Cymbalta 20mg XR and 20 mg Metoprolol following irregular heartbeat incident  -Late 2019 began worsening anxiety/ depression symptoms     -2020 Dr direct switched  back to 75 mg Effex XR   Symptoms worsened  

 

When the doctor switched your drugs abruptly, it may have caused your nervous system to kindle. Please see:

 

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

Do you remember why your doc switched you from Effexor 75XR to Cymbalta? Did your doc think the Effexor had "pooped out"? Here's information on "poop out": 

 

Tachyphylaxis, Reaching Tolerance or as It's Lovingly Known “Poop-Out”

 

Once you have a chance to read the first post of both of these threads (no rush, take your time), please post your thoughts. 

[rmce72a]

Hello Shep and thank you for responding.  I hope you are still available to get my reply this evening. I have read the info on poop-out before and have even heard from BrassMonkey about this since he experienced it and I thought that was my problem. I had heard about kindling here but had not really studied the info since I didn't think that was a possibility for me since I didn't CT nor go up or down quickly in doses. However, I now think that I have kindled which certainly would explain all the problems I have been having for nearly 4 years. 

 

It makes sense that an abrupt switch from Effexor to Cymbalta and then back to Effexor would cause kindling. I had no problems or symptoms with Effexor. Then in 2018 I was in the hospital for what seemed to be a heart attack but turned out not to be. After that, my PCP changed me from Eff to Cymbalta as a precaution because he felt it was less stressful for the heart. He said a direct switch back was fine. Then when I started having problems over the course of the next year and began having extreme symptoms of anxiety and depression, he put me back on Eff since I had not had problems with it and my heart was fine. (Stupid of me not to ask why I was taking an antidepressant after 20 years when my fibromyalgia problem had resolved and that was the reason I was prescribed it in the first place.)

 

After going back on Eff, my anxiety and depression never improved, in fact is worse than ever at times even though I am slowly, slowly tapering. (2mg in 9 months.) Yes...has to be kindling which explains why I can't even take the multi vitamin I used to take daily, Omega 3, or even magnesium, and I am sensitive to nearly all food.

 

My question now is, what in the world do I do? I would like to continue my taper, but how? When I tried to drop to 72.7 from 73 a month ago, my panic and anxiety were nearly unbearable. I have developed an OCD tendency and am a nervous wreck 24/7. I no longer see the PCP who did the Eff/Cymbalta switches, and my new PCP just advises the usual: up the dose or change/add other meds which I will not do. Thank you Surviving Antidepressants! 

 

What do you advise about my taper? Should I just accept that I will feel this way for the rest of my life? I would appreciate any input/advice that you can offer. I have little hope that my life will ever be the same as it was prior to 2018, but I hope and pray for at least some quality of life.

 

Thank you, thank you. If it were not for you and others here, I'm not sure I would even be here. xo Rebecca

 

 

[rmce72a]

Some added info I have found is the role of glutamate and Gaba in the mix. I remember my psychiatrist mentioning these two things at some point, but I can't remember in what context. Anyway, I see that overstimulation of glutamate (the "on" switch" and understimulation by Gaba (the "off" switch) may be going on with me which could explain why the least amount of stimulation (peeling hard-boiled eggs, for example) causes me to have shakiness and numbness in hands and feet. I have found that even the tiniest stimulation, even positive ones, increase anxiety which makes it nearly impossible for me to do anything and perform even the simplest of activities. How am I to live my life like this? 

 

I see that some people here have taken Gaba or Gaba supplements, but I would be very reluctant to do that for fear of disrupting things even further. In my reading about studies involving glutamate and Gaba (many of which I don't even understand) there is a lot more going on with these two things in the brain, so I'm not sure I would want to mess around with them. At least it could explain what is happening to me. 

 

The bottom line for me is What do I do about my taper? What is the proognosis for me. I am so scared and so sick. Thank you so much.

 

 

[Catina7]

27 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

Some added info I have found is the role of glutamate and Gaba in the mix. I remember my psychiatrist mentioning these two things at some point, but I can't remember in what context. Anyway, I see that overstimulation of glutamate (the "on" switch" and understimulation by Gaba (the "off" switch) may be going on with me which could explain why the least amount of stimulation (peeling hard-boiled eggs, for example) causes me to have shakiness and numbness in hands and feet. I have found that even the tiniest stimulation, even positive ones, increase anxiety which makes it nearly impossible for me to do anything and perform even the simplest of activities. How am I to live my life like this? 

 

I see that some people here have taken Gaba or Gaba supplements, but I would be very reluctant to do that for fear of disrupting things even further. In my reading about studies involving glutamate and Gaba (many of which I don't even understand) there is a lot more going on with these two things in the brain, so I'm not sure I would want to mess around with them. At least it could explain what is happening to me. 

 

The bottom line for me is What do I do about my taper? What is the proognosis for me. I am so scared and so sick. Thank you so much.

 

 

I can't imagine that you would be permanently messed up, even though it may feel like you are.  I just think your body needs a long time to recover.  It seems as though other people have been through this and have improved after some time.  It's important to not lose hope and to realize that you can recover from this.

[rmce72a]

As always, you are a light in the darkness. With all these symptoms that make every single day so hard to manage, I often find it hard to remain optimistic. This is year 4 for me, and it's all getting pretty old. (Sorry for the whining.) You upbeat attitude and encouragement mean so much. 

 

Right now, I am trying to decide what to do about tapering since it seems as though I was kindled way back when. You may have told me but I forget, are you counting beads or weighing?

 

Thank you, dear Catina.  xo Rebecca

 

[Catina7]

11 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

As always, you are a light in the darkness. With all these symptoms that make every single day so hard to manage, I often find it hard to remain optimistic. This is year 4 for me, and it's all getting pretty old. (Sorry for the whining.) You upbeat attitude and encouragement mean so much. 

 

Right now, I am trying to decide what to do about tapering since it seems as though I was kindled way back when. You may have told me but I forget, are you counting beads or weighing?

 

Thank you, dear Catina.  xo Rebecca

 

When I was tapering I was counting beads.  I've stayed at 37.5 mg since October of 2021 and cannot go down any further until this anxiety gets better.  It actually HAS improved, but it has taken a long time, and I may still have a long way to go in the future.  I do know that in my darkest hours I was terrified and thought that I would never get better.  I thought I was permanently messed up for life.  It's a very dark place to be.  But TIME and PATIENCE are our greatest allies.  I have gotten better and I know you will too.  If you haven't already done so, go read some of the success stories of people who have been to hell and back and they recovered.  It helped me so much to see that there IS a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Shep]

19 hours ago, rmce72a said:

After going back on Eff, my anxiety and depression never improved, in fact is worse than ever at times even though I am slowly, slowly tapering. (2mg in 9 months.) Yes...has to be kindling which explains why I can't even take the multi vitamin I used to take daily, Omega 3, or even magnesium, and I am sensitive to nearly all food.

 

2 hours ago, rmce72a said:

I see that some people here have taken Gaba or Gaba supplements, but I would be very reluctant to do that for fear of disrupting things even further. In my reading about studies involving glutamate and Gaba (many of which I don't even understand) there is a lot more going on with these two things in the brain, so I'm not sure I would want to mess around with them. At least it could explain what is happening to me. 

 

You're providing good information here, rmce. If you've had poor appetite for a long time, along with the inability to tolerate supplements and food, you may be suffering from nutritional deficiencies. Deficiencies in vitamin B12 and D3 can cause all sorts of problems for the mind/body. 

 

As far as GABA goes, you're correct to avoid this supplement. 

 

GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) tablets, capsules, liquid

 

Are you able to eat red meat and fish? If you're not able to take supplements, these kinds of foods can be very helpful in supplying B12 and omega 3. The Ketogenic Diet is something that some of us find helpful. You may want to google and read about it, if you think it's a good option for you. It naturally increases GABA. Here is some information:

 

Dr. Chris Palmer – Diet & Nutrition For Mental Health | Huberman Lab

 

Not everyone is able to tolerate the Ketogenic diet, but it may be a good tool in the toolbox to try out. If you do so, you may wish to slowly decrease your net carbs and let your body adjust over a few weeks instead of removing carbs all at once.

 

Also, make sure you're getting enough water, as dehydration can also cause many problems for the mind/body. 

[rmce72a]

Thank you, Shep. Yes, I can eat beef and chicken, but not fish nor use fish oil. I do try to drink more water. What should I do now about tapering? SHould I stay around 73 mg, or will I even stabilize? 

[Shep]

Quote

 

11-23-Jan 14   Held until one week ago. Dropped to 72.75-72.81  terrible WD

1/14- present   Worse WD symptoms. Back to 73.10. Cannot seem to stabilize.

2/2 - present Holding at about 73 hoping to stabilize

1/24 Updose to 73-73.2. Take only Clarinex 5mg for allergies and the Effexor 73 XR. 

 

 

Did you get any improvements at all when you were making these small updoses in January? If not, I wouldn't increase any more. 

 

You may want to hold for a week or two and really work on getting enough nutrients in with a solid diet plan and staying hydrated, doing as much self care as possible.

 

Some of the problem may be in nutrition, but I'm also wondering if battle fatigue may also be in play. Being chronically sick for years can take its toll. 

[rmce72a]

Thank you so much for the reply. I plan to just hold at 73 and see what happens. I don't know what else to do. The Keto diet is close to my current diet, although many Keto things I cannot tolerate yet. Another SA poster suggested sprouted brown rice that contains Gaba. I may try that unless I hear otherwise.

 

As always, I am so very grateful for all the help. Bless you. xo Rebecca

[rmce72a]

I still can't reconcile while I have continued symptoms every single day (sometimes less intense but most awful) when I am not tapering? I am holding, but never seem to stabilize.  I have read all the info about kindling, microdosing, etc. and am following everything to the letter. I am so careful with diet, never drink alcohol, take my meds every evening at exactly the same time, yet I am never without symptoms.

 

I find after reading about the Keto as recommended by Shep, that's pretty much how I eat these days. Of course, my diet is much more limited due to so many sensitivities. I practice the suggestions for dealing with neuroemotions, which help, but never really relieve my symptoms. I am trying hard to believe that I will get better with time and patience, but since I am in year 4 with no real improvement despite following the rules, I just don't know anymore. There is no WD normal for me, just constant fluctuations between feeling unwell and feeling nervous, upset and dizzy all day every day. 

 

Although ending it all is not something I am feeling nor want to do, but I sure do understand why some people kill themselves.

[Catina7]

58 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

I still can't reconcile while I have continued symptoms every single day (sometimes less intense but most awful) when I am not tapering? I am holding, but never seem to stabilize.  I have read all the info about kindling, microdosing, etc. and am following everything to the letter. I am so careful with diet, never drink alcohol, take my meds every evening at exactly the same time, yet I am never without symptoms.

 

I find after reading about the Keto as recommended by Shep, that's pretty much how I eat these days. Of course, my diet is much more limited due to so many sensitivities. I practice the suggestions for dealing with neuroemotions, which help, but never really relieve my symptoms. I am trying hard to believe that I will get better with time and patience, but since I am in year 4 with no real improvement despite following the rules, I just don't know anymore. There is no WD normal for me, just constant fluctuations between feeling unwell and feeling nervous, upset and dizzy all day every day. 

 

Although ending it all is not something I am feeling nor want to do, but I sure do understand why some people kill themselves.

I think about you a lot and am so sorry for what you're going through.  Just try to arm yourself with as many coping skills as you can and take things day by day.  Sending you many hugs. I wish I could make everything better for you.  

[rmce72a]

Catina, thank you for your ray of sunshine. Today has been very difficult. I am trying so hard to do everything in my power, but the terrible symptoms just keep coming and coming and coming. Today especially I have heart severe heart palps, high tinnitus, dizziness, stomach upset. But your reminder has helped. I will keep putting one foot in front of the other and try not to lose hope, but it's getting harder and harder not to. I just don't see any possible way I can come out of this. Thank you and I hope you are doing ok. xo Rebecca

[Catina7]

28 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

Catina, thank you for your ray of sunshine. Today has been very difficult. I am trying so hard to do everything in my power, but the terrible symptoms just keep coming and coming and coming. Today especially I have heart severe heart palps, high tinnitus, dizziness, stomach upset. But your reminder has helped. I will keep putting one foot in front of the other and try not to lose hope, but it's getting harder and harder not to. I just don't see any possible way I can come out of this. Thank you and I hope you are doing ok. xo Rebecca

I've been having a bad day too.  I pushed myself yesterday to socialize for a tiny bit and it really ramped up my anxiety.  Today my anxiety and heart palpitations have been very bad...just constant like I'm in panic mode.  I just need lots of rest alone where I don't talk to anyone besides my husband.  Hang in there dear one!!!

[rmce72a]

Oh, no. I am sorry that you are having a bad day too with the same symptoms. Yet, dear person that you are, you still are able to reach out and comfort someone else. Bless you.  Doesn't it make things so much tougher to accept when we try to live normal lives with normal activities and have to pay for it with worsening symptoms? I just keep telling myself that tomorrow will be better.

 

I am trying to embrace your upbeat attitude. In fact, a former colleague of mine who is now an elementary school principal sent a Facebook message asking for donations of gently used books. It seems that they are having a book fair, and some children cannot afford to buy books at the fair, so she wants donations to allow those children to choose a book to keep that they don't have to pay for. So, I went to a used bookstore and found 30 like-new books that I will take to her tomorrow (hopefully). Even though I still felt ill, the activity of trying to help brought a little relief for a while. There is a lesson for me in there!

 

Also, receiving your quick responses to me also brings me a sense of calm and understanding that I need so much, and for that I am so very grateful. Thank you again, and here's hoping you have a gentle evening and good night's sleep. xo Rebecca

[Catina7]

7 minutes ago, rmce72a said:

Oh, no. I am sorry that you are having a bad day too with the same symptoms. Yet, dear person that you are, you still are able to reach out and comfort someone else. Bless you.  Doesn't it make things so much tougher to accept when we try to live normal lives with normal activities and have to pay for it with worsening symptoms? I just keep telling myself that tomorrow will be better.

 

I am trying to embrace your upbeat attitude. In fact, a former colleague of mine who is now an elementary school principal sent a Facebook message asking for donations of gently used books. It seems that they are having a book fair, and some children cannot afford to buy books at the fair, so she wants donations to allow those children to choose a book to keep that they don't have to pay for. So, I went to a used bookstore and found 30 like-new books that I will take to her tomorrow (hopefully). Even though I still felt ill, the activity of trying to help brought a little relief for a while. There is a lesson for me in there!

 

Also, receiving your quick responses to me also brings me a sense of calm and understanding that I need so much, and for that I am so very grateful. Thank you again, and here's hoping you have a gentle evening and good night's sleep. xo Rebecca

Kudos to you for trying your best despite your illness.  I try to be grateful for what health I do have and just do the best I can.  I am wishing you much peace of mind tonight and hope that tomorrow might bring a small glimmer of hope that you can get better soon.  Keep doing your research and find things that help calm your mind and body.  If you can find a good acupuncturist you might want to give it a try.  Sometimes they can do wonders.  Just a thought.  Nighty night!  xo

[peaceandlove]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:16 PM, rmce72a said:

Hello Bego82. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your response. I am getting pretty desperate, and I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I can't figure out why tapering is so very difficult. I count every bead in every capsule every day to get as close to the dose of the day before. I try to eat well, but I can't tolerate most foods or ANY supplements. Knowing this, I bought Nordic Naturals infant Omega 3 liquid, and I took the dose for a 10-20 pound baby. The day after the third dose,  my anxiety ramped up and I had severe diarrhea which is just now calming down. So no fish oil for now.

 

I have Googled SSRI's and patient reviews, and they are all mixed. If Genesight test says that Prozac is a no-go, I just don't know what else to do. I am in year 4 since the massive anxiety and other symptoms began, even though I have only been tapering since last May. Symptoms are still the same, except they were much worse when I tried to taper to 72.7 from 73 so I went back up. I cannot afford to lose any more weight. I have lost 31 pounds in 9 months, and I am starting to feel pretty weak. I force myself to eat oatmeal, baked chicken or beef, hard-boiled eggs, and green beans every day, but I am rarely hungry.

 

If I felt I were making any progress, all this would be easier to deal with, but I'm not sure that I am. The life and health I had always had are gone now. I am just trying to put one foot in front of the other and stay alive hoping for positive change at some point. (Sorry for being so gloomy)

Sometimes I think since I am so sensitive to meds that even the slight differences in dose from day-to-day with the bead counting may be contributing, but I'm not sure that I could do the weighing thing properly.

 

How do you manage your dosing? Your CNS is no doubt suffering from your fast WD from Effexor. Are you any better? Are you still taking the Mirt? How did that work for you?

 

Thank you again for the info and encouragement. I hope and pray that one day all of this hell we are living with be a distant memory for all of us here. Please take care and keep in touch. Thank you and hopes and prayers for your healing.  xo Rebecca

hey how are your doing? 🙂 Do your stomach issues sound a bit like gastroparesis ? I’m in the same boat as you I can barely eat some days, bloating nausea, indigestion & feeling full after barely eating anything. Gastroparesis is the what my symptoms seem like. I have lost weight & it embarrassing to look so different than I used to. I know your pain @rmce72a