Margaret1: an attempt to discontinue paroxetine

[Margaret1]

Thanks cheddar cat. Paxil has done a number on me for sure. Short term memory loss, cognitive decline during this extended withdrawal. Still on 20 mg Paxil only. Can’t figure out how to remove trazodone from my active drug list. 
Feeling more alive than I ever have now. Getting my brain back slowly. Just hope it heals eventually. Tinnitus in right ear still but it’s changed somewhat. Weight loss occurring but eating more healthy fats. Waiting to have more window time and less waves. It’s been almost 5 months since the last drop from 30 to 20. But I’m not ready to go any lower yet. 

[Lilly998]

9 hours ago, Margaret1 said:

Feeling more alive than I ever have now.

Glad you're feeling this Margaret 

I hope it gets better and better ❤

 

Do u feel zinc is helping u ?

[Margaret1]

Hi Lilly998. I haven’t been taking supplements in the past few weeks because I got nervous as to how they could be affecting me. But I may go back  on them. I’ll try the zinc today and the cod liver fish oil. And I need to get more k complex to take with the d3. 
 

[ChessieCat]

10 hours ago, Margaret1 said:

I’ll try the zinc today and the cod liver fish oil. And I need to get more k complex to take with the d3.

 

SA suggests only adding one thing at a time and only try a small dose to see how you react.

[Margaret1]

Psychiatrist wants me to go on 150 mg daily of toprimate. She says I’m in hypomania and depression mixed state. She says I should go on different antidepressant maybe or go off paroxetine. I’m holding at 20 mg paroxetine daily. 
she said that this hypomania could get worse and could be damaging my brain, 

[Margaret1]

Guys, I don’t want to go on a seizure medicine. I want to get off paroxetine eventually and heal through coping strategies. But what if I am bipolar 2? 
I hate psychiatrists. 

[Margaret1]

She didn’t want to hear about me being molested at age 7 or that I just moved it that I can’t work because if neck injury and not sleeping good. She said she has another client and has to go. She doesn’t have anything to offer me. 

[itiscomplicated]

On 11/1/2022 at 2:13 PM, Margaret1 said:

Guys, I don’t want to go on a seizure medicine. I want to get off paroxetine eventually and heal through coping strategies. But what if I am bipolar 2? 
I hate psychiatrists. 

 

FWIW, I have a Bipolar 2 diagnosis, and whether or not it is accurate, antidepressants have almost always had the effect of causing agitated depression, or what one could call a "mixed state," or hypomania, particularly without something with "mood stabilizing" properties taken along with it.

 

Don't worry so much about disgnostic labels. Perhaps you have a similar predisposition, and staying on the antidepressant is causing an adverse reaction.

 

It's a bad situation; both staying on and going off the meds causes problems, I've been there, and feel for you.

 

Antidepressant-induced mania is dangerous. Adding something now to combat it, that you can always taper off later, is an option.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Margaret1,

Are you still taking trazodone too?

Current:  Paroxetine 20mg (40mg to 30mg on 4-23-22 and 30mg to 20mg on 5-24-22); trazodone 12.5mg as needed for sleep

Paxil 40mg on/off since 1993, currently on 20mg attempting to taper down will begin taper 11-25-22

Trazodone 150mg since 2005? Currently taking 12.5mg as needed 2x weekly 

Previous:  Seroquel 300mg since 2005? - 2-2022 quit; Gabapentin 300mg 2015? - 2-2022 quit; Lamotrigine 2015-2018? Quit; Abilify took once made me nauseous and almost passed out, quit; Clonazapam .5 mg 2018-2022 quit; Risperdal made feel sick only took a few times, quit; Hydroxyzine  2015? - 2021 quit; Lithium 2014? Do not remember dosage, quit; Depakote 2012? Do not remember dosage, quit; Citalopram 2004? Do not remember dosage, quit; Haloperidol given on shot in 2020?; Clonidine 2022, quit; Lorazepam- 1996?, quit

 

And oh good, your U.S. based.  Have you used Drugs.com yet?

Please plug your current meds in there to check interactions.

And then do one with the toprimate in another one with your present 2.

Then copy and paste the results, or give us a link to see results.

 

I am with you, I don't think you need to be allowing your doctor to get you deeper into polypharmacy.

Are you feeling too up right now, or active, or making unusual plans?

 

I too, got mired into a BP2 diagnosis.......quite awhile back.

I no longer have it......I mean yes, something shifted in me with multiple trials of AD's, and it was entirely medication induced.......but, and honest.......I no longer do the shifts that used to happen with me.  Cured.

 

Are you able to check yourself and limit any behaviors that might get you in trouble.  It took me about a year, maybe less to realize what had happened to me.  I was on Effexor at that time.  And I was lucky I suppose, as I was previously pretty timid, and did not get into trouble with the "hypomania" when it hit.  It was difficult and took time for me.  First off the Effexor, which wound up being replaced by another AD.  All well before I had come across information, like what we have here.  And then off my "antipsychotic" being used for mood stabilization, and other "mood stabilizers". And then finally off my AD, only to have that replaced......and then voila........finally arrived here and slowly tapered, and off and doing well.......normal moods, no BP2.

 

So sharing that, in hopes it will help.

On 11/1/2022 at 12:13 PM, Margaret1 said:

Guys, I don’t want to go on a seizure medicine. I want to get off paroxetine eventually and heal through coping strategies. But what if I am bipolar 2? 
I hate psychiatrists. 

 

If you can continue your quest for freedom from drugs, and continue your taper........I'd do that.  When ready.  Personally, I'm  not certain that that BP2 is a valid diagnosis, not in any proven medical way.

How are you doing right now?  Are you managing okay?  Finding new coping skills that don't involve drugs?  Tell us more.  Thanks. 

 

On 11/1/2022 at 12:12 PM, Margaret1 said:

Psychiatrist wants me to go on 150 mg daily of toprimate. She says I’m in hypomania and depression mixed state. She says I should go on different antidepressant maybe or go off paroxetine. I’m holding at 20 mg paroxetine daily. 
she said that this hypomania could get worse and could be damaging my brain, 

 

Hmmm.  Are your actions causing harm or anything?  Are you talking a lot, or maybe sharing TMI with this particular psychiatrist?  Doesn't sound like a good fit, any chance of getting another?  Or any doctor can prescribe for you.

 

 

So.....holding at 20 mg of paroxetine?  I do see some abrupt drops prior to last June.

 

Okay, and thanks in advance.  Sorry, I just don't have time today to read through previous posts.  Holding is okay, until you feel ready to taper.  When did you, or have you thought about when you might begin a harm reduction taper?

 

I'm going to attach the link to:  Important topics in the Tapering Forum today, so you can look especially at Preparing to Taper, and there is lot's more indexed in the first post.  Take good care of self now. 

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

[Margaret1]

Hi 

I am only taking 20 mg Paxil. I stopped the trazodone months ago. I am having mood swings. Buzzy head, to depression. Then nothingness which is horrible. Then hot flushing, paranoia, mania, sleeping maybe 3-4 hours a night, planning on going from 20 mg paxil to 15 on 11-25-22. Mild hallucinations. Those stopped. Sensitive to light, skin feels like it’s crawling. Oh a as bad I found out I have covid so that’s not fun. Please advise 

[Margaret1]

Feeling like I have to explain everything to everyone. Paranoia!!! Fears of abandonment. Eating very healthy. Keto 

Some whole grains though. Is Paxil making bipolar 2 diagnosis worse? 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Margaret1,  How did you taper the Seroquel and Gabapentin?  So you are a bit into neuroemotions it sounds like.  Check some of the links topics that may have already been given. You might wait the Covid out, at least for a couple of weeks prior to tapering.  And then.... Have you reviewed why taper by 10 percent or less?  You've had a lot of drug upheaval since last February from what I can see from your signature.  Very likely you are, or your nervous system is working hard to reestablish homeostasis.  It can take some time.  I would suggest just a taper of 10% when you do taper paroxetine.  That would be a dose of 18 mg.  Going to 15 mg from 20 mg is 25%.  Not harm reduction at all.  It could cause more WD.  How long have the symptoms mentioned in your first post above been present?  Your drug(s) may have led to a BP2 diagnosis and may be more your problem.  Yet, we don't advise rapid tapers.  And I would venture to say no, your Paxil(paroxetine) won't make your, in my mind, medication manufactured, illness worse.  Did you always have symptoms like the above post, even before 2005 or your first drugs prescribed.  Anyway....easy does it now, you are sick.  Best. L, P, H, and, G. mmt

[manymoretodays]

Sorry about the no paragraph break post.  I only have android access right now to post.  I do see topics linked to and explanations given.  I might review from July, some of our tapering ideas, and topics.  Also on WD.  So sorry it is tough, really tough for you now.  Hoping your Covid is mild and Godspeed on healing from.

[Margaret1]

I didn’t really taper seroquel and gabapentin. I went from 200 mg seroquel to 100 mg I think over one week and then stopped it entirely. The gabapentin I just stopped! 
Some of these symptoms became present in my early youth. 

[Margaret1]

Just not as intense as they are now! 

[Margaret1]

If bipolar exists….. I have no idea…. Did the chicken come before the egg? What should I do? Is paroxetine making mania worse? Can I control this with mind control? Is it as simple as brain pathways? 

[Margaret1]

These symptoms are getting worse and they started a few months ago 

[Margaret1]

Insomnia 3 - 4 hours sleep a night

paranoia - I recognize it but it’s scary 

isolating 

feel like insects crawling on skin

mood swings 

mania hits head buzzing everything’s perfect!!!

depression hits 

Nothingness hits that’s the worse 

Hot baths makes it worse 

cold helps some but really anything is too much 

 

Mild hallucinations 

tinnitus in right ear 

Waking up in sweats 

Waking up in panic not knowing where I am the room swirling around me then it dies come together 

[Altostrata]

@Margaret1 your signature is confusing.

 

What drugs did you quit in the last 12 months? Please give the last dates and dosages for each drug.

 

7 hours ago, Margaret1 said:

If bipolar exists….. I have no idea…. Did the chicken come before the egg? What should I do? Is paroxetine making mania worse? Can I control this with mind control? Is it as simple as brain pathways? 

 

Please note that we provide peer support for going off psychiatric drugs. If you have decided psychiatric drug treatment would be better for you, please talk to your doctor.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Altostrata

[Margaret1]

What is confusing about my drug profile?

[ChessieCat]

We need to be able to easily see the drug name, the dose and the date you took that dose.  Please understand that the small number of unpaid staff are doing a lot of reading and there are a lot of members we are trying to help .  When the information is given in a simple for it saves a lot of time and effort trying to work it out.  Thank you.

 

See these instructions:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature
Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 

[Margaret1]

In the last 12 months I quit :

seroquel 

gabapentin

trazodone

paroxetine from 40 mg to 20 mg 

 

im presently on 20 mg paroxetine 

I’ve been on/off paroxetine since I was 17, I am 47 now. 

[Margaret1]

I was diagnosed with bipolar mania yesterday by a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Given med called vraylar 1.5 mg dose. Haven’t taken yet… doing research… he said to go from 20 mg Paxil to 10 mg starting today. It could be causing mania to be worse. 

[Margaret1]

I asked him about going from 20 mg Paxil to 19 mg and he said it’s not possible… lol but my plan guys was to go from 20 mg to 15 mg on 11/25/22 and holding true to this. I think I can handle 5 mg drop. 

[Margaret1]

I’m down to 113 lbs from 125 lbs. eating lots but good going through me so fast. The brain requires a lot of energy? Sleeping 4 hours a night? Bags under eyes. Having mania or high anxiety then dropping to depression. All day long. Having this for 10 months now. Since I stopped seroquel. Trying to get off Paxil and be on bipolar drug only?

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Margaret1 said:

I was diagnosed with bipolar mania yesterday by a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Given med called vraylar 1.5 mg dose. Haven’t taken yet… doing research… he said to go from 20 mg Paxil to 10 mg starting today. It could be causing mania to be worse. 

 

It's up to you whether you believe the diagnosis.  It is normal to want an answer to what is causing the issue/s.  However as I've already stated once a person has taken a psychiatric drug, then a diagnosis is invalid.

 

I have learned a lot since becoming a member of SA in October 2015 and I now question everything that my doctors say.  They are human and do not know everything.  Much of what they learn about drugs is from the pharmaceutical companies and research is funded by pharmaceutical companies.  What are pharmaceutical companies?  Are they wanting to help people to get well or are they businesses making a profit for their shareholders?

 

I suggest you watch the following before you start a new drug:

 

Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years and has first hand personal experience and also second hand experience (her niece committed suicide after taking psychiatric drug/s):

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  Manipulating Doctors to Sell More Drugs (10 minute video)

 

Irving Kirsch and his colleagues had to go through Freedom of Information to get access to unpublished clinical trials.  A pharmaceutical company can do as many trials as they want but only need to submit two:

 

Video:  Irving Kirsch:  Emperor's New Drugs:  Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect (1 hour 20 minutes)

 

[Margaret1]

Thanks cheesiecat.

i want to say this. As a young child before I ever took Paxil or any other psych med, I had simply had the normal vaccines required by doctor, I had high anxiety, insomnia, mood swings, and mania. I see this now. 
what caused this, who knows? Did the chicken come before the egg? Was I born with a brain that was predisposed to this? I don’t understand neuroscience. And I don’t know how much they really understand? 
I took 1.5 mg of the mood stabilizer yesterday. And I took 10 mg of Paxil yesterday, I’ve lowered my dosage holing I can get off Paxil eventually. But I have been in Paxil since 1992, thereabouts. The mood stabilizer is calming me down. I feel less manic already. It is called Caraprazine. I don’t want to take anything. But I need to work. After I get off Paxil in a few months, I will see how I do. Then I plan to get off this mood stabilizer eventually when I have a more stable life. I am new to the town I live in. I am changing jobs, etc big life changes. I will read the links you gave me. Thanks!

I ordered the book you suggested. I really want to get off this stuff. I’m dealing with ptsd as well as being bisexual, finding acceptance around this for myself, I was reborn, I  am 84 days sober and have the disease of alcoholism. I am in recovery. I just need some time to get off paroxetine. And then I’ll have to tackle the mood stabilizer next. I am doing well though. 
panic attacks after naps and upon waking. Worrying and negative thoughts. Losing weight. Down to 113 lbs from 125. But when I focus on the positive instead of the negative. It helps. I don’t think stress and these cyclical mood swings are good for me. I am functioning.. but not at my best? Who knows. I am open to any and all help. 

[Margaret1]

Guys, back on 20 mg Paxil. Having intense anxiety. Not ready for 15 mg. Or any drop right now. Seeing primary care dr on Monday he does not ever push drugs on me. And I will tell him that I think this new mood stabilizer is making me feel more amped up! 
so, the Paxil withdrawal takes forever… guys don’t ever take this drug! Go for a run or ask someone how their day is going, better yet, pray. 

[ChessieCat]

44 minutes ago, Margaret1 said:

And I will tell him that I think this new mood stabilizer is making me feel more amped up! 

 

If you have only been taking it for a few days my suggestion would be to stop taking it; at least that is what I would do.  If you wait until Monday, that is another 2 or 3 days that your brain is adapting to the drug.  The longer you take it then the more adaptation will occur and the more likely you will get withdrawal symptoms from stopping it; however you might be able to do a fast taper (not the 10%/4 week protocol).

[Altostrata]

On 11/23/2022 at 2:29 AM, Margaret1 said:

In the last 12 months I quit :

seroquel 

gabapentin

trazodone

paroxetine from 40 mg to 20 mg 

 

im presently on 20 mg paroxetine 

I’ve been on/off paroxetine since I was 17, I am 47 now. 

 

@Margaret1 we have been trying to advise you about tapering, but you keep going back to your doctor and adding drugs. We cannot counsel you about reducing a drug while you're adding drugs at the same time. Most likely, we would give you suggestions that conflict with your doctor's advice. If you think your doctor has a better way, by all means, follow your doctor's program.

 

On 11/24/2022 at 2:04 PM, Margaret1 said:

I  am 84 days sober and have the disease of alcoholism. I am in recovery.

 

You joined nearly 6 months ago and you've been drinking until 84 days ago? Drinking alcohol while experience adverse effects of psychiatric drugs or withdrawal often causes the withdrawal symptoms to be a lot worse. You may still be feeling the effects of that.

[manymoretodays]

7 hours ago, Margaret1 said:

Guys, back on 20 mg Paxil. Having intense anxiety. Not ready for 15 mg. Or any drop right now. Seeing primary care dr on Monday he does not ever push drugs on me. And I will tell him that I think this new mood stabilizer is making me feel more amped up! 
so, the Paxil withdrawal takes forever… guys don’t ever take this drug! Go for a run or ask someone how their day is going, better yet, pray. 

 

Hi Margaret1,

Really.  Paxil.  Is a mood stabilizer?  What?

Oh Margaret.

Where are you at with the Paxil or any other drugs?

And congrats, almost 90 days or 3 months off alcohol!  That is award worthy.  Have you tried a 12 step group or AA.  I can't recommend it enough.......it has helped some here, me included, while others not so much.

Twelve-Step Recovery and Surviving Antidepressants

Just listen, you don't need to agree or argue with anyone,in the after the meeting discussions.  Just be chill.  Go have lunch with a new friend.

Man, oh man......I can't tell you how many get mis-diagnosed in early sobriety.  It happens.  That WD, can look like some kinds of what they like to call mental illness.

It's up to you.  What do you think you need?  Weigh all the evidence you have got, or run across, and you really do get to decide.  I hope that makes sense.

 

Updates?

 

Okay, rooting for you!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by manymoretodays

[Margaret1]

I am currently taking 1.5 mg Vraylar. And 20 mg Paxil. Yes, I am in recovery. Thank you God and AA so much. I owe y’all my life!

[Margaret1]

Started Vyaylar 3 days ago. Yes, I know untreated alcoholism is a beast! And I have been doing this for 40 years. I was raped by my pediatrician as a child…. This is coming back. Any advice?

[manymoretodays]

Oh Magaret1,

Darn it, you are getting mired deeper into psychiatry.  Maybe that is what you need to do for awhile.  I don't know.  We can't however, or don't wish to compete with your doctors, or give conflicting advice, and do not do medication management.

Have you used Drugs.com yet?  If not, please start to, before you ingest anymore drugs.  You'll see at the top, where you can just check individual drugs.  You can find out what type of drug, and then also find out more on the side effects of the drug.  It's a shame, as so many drugs given can cause psychological symptoms themselves.

And then.......always, always........check drug interactions.

So, I took the liberty and here are your present drug interactions:

Drug Interaction Report: Paxil, Vraylar

 

With the trauma, and past abuse......first let me say I am so sorry Margaret.  Second, I think you'll have to continue to search, on the ground, or even for online help......in continuing to process your abuse.  I mean we are not set up to do trauma work, not are we clinicians.  I don't know that having a diagnosis is helpful for you, in processing this.  I guess you do think so, and have chosen the psychiatric path of treatment now?

 

Let us know please, when you would like help in tapering again.  And best of luck with your continued abstinance from alcohol.  I have seen so many, who do wind up drug dependent, early on in sobriety, and it hurts......it's hard to see sometimes, coming from where I do......in my own understanding.  Anyway.....now you have another great reason not to drink, your unstable nervous system- WD overlapping with new drug trials. 

 

All my best.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Margaret1,

And here is our topic with the list of doctors, and therapists, and clinics that help with tapering, or may be more tapering friendly.  Or less heavy with medications......possibly.

So maybe one of those would fit to help you with the trauma/abuse too.......

Oh boy, I do hope you can find what you need to begin to heal M1.

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

💜

[Margaret1]

Took 200 mg seroquel last night. Slept amazingly. Won’t take it again but it was amazing.