Kingy: Paxil and diazepam withdrawal

[Kingy]

Hello Shep

It's a week since my last drop. I only did 10% however I can really feel it now. I am having very vivid dreams. In the morning the thought of another day really overwhelms me. I have no energy and suicidal ideation all day. I am afraid of my own thoughts. I plan another 10% drop on the 5th of December. I want to get better, I want to feel and enjoy, I want to do and accomplish however the motivation is not there. I am afraid, lonely {even though I do call people} also I am have terrible agoraphobia, however I do have to go out for food and collect my meds. This is a nightmare. Anyhow I will keep going and hope and pray I find some hope. Do you think the more I get off the better I will feel? I am very tired all the time, if I taper too quick my nervous system goes into hyperdrive. I wish I had never heard the word antidepressant. Thanks for your help 

[mstimc]

Hi Kingy.  Don't hold yourself to a rigid schedule and don't be too hard on yourself if you feel you're not meeting your recovery expectations.  As you reduce, you should be working on coping strategies to help with the negative thoughts and ruminations.  Besides helping you manage your anxious thinking, it will provide a distraction so you're not dwelling on negative thoughts throughout the day.  And remember, recovery isn't a straight line--it goes up and down and can be unpredictable.  But  that doesn't mean you won't recover--you can and you will!

[Shep]

17 hours ago, Kingy said:

It's a week since my last drop. I only did 10% however I can really feel it now. I am having very vivid dreams. In the morning the thought of another day really overwhelms me. I have no energy and suicidal ideation all day.

 

Kingy, I would updose since it's only been a week. You may only need to updose part of the reduction to get some benefit. 

 

Please post your thoughts. 

[Kingy]

I will and hold at 15 mg, I have been feeling the way I described for a very long time. I think the benzos and just making tired all the time so I will continue my taper but maybe hold for while. I think I really need to get off Paxil but that will be extremely difficult. Thanks for replying.

[Kingy]

Do you think it would be better for me if I swopped Zolpidem 10 mg for 10 mg of Diazepam? I would be on 25 mg of Diazepam but no Zolpidem. I feel that the Zolpidem is making my depression worse. Or should I just carry on as planned? thanks

[Shep]

4 hours ago, Kingy said:

Do you think it would be better for me if I swopped Zolpidem 10 mg for 10 mg of Diazepam? I would be on 25 mg of Diazepam but no Zolpidem. I feel that the Zolpidem is making my depression worse. Or should I just carry on as planned? thanks

 

Here is a benzo equivalency table:

 

Benzo Equivalency Table

 

According to the chart, Zolpidem 20 mg = Valium 10 mg. You'd only need 5 mg diazepam if you did switch (since you're on 10 mg of Zolpidem). 

 

But I wouldn't advise doing that - you'll go into withdrawal and the diazepam may or may not cover the Zolpidem withdrawal. Crossovers are very risky when someone already has a destabilized nervous system. 

 

When you say "depression," do you mean fatigue? 

[Kingy]

Yes I mean fatigue which leads to depression especially if I try to go shopping or do something that aggravates my nervous system. When I am fatigued I don't have the mental capacity to fight back.

So if I did switch I would only have to be on 20 mg of Valium considering I am on 15 mg at the moment. I won't switch now, I will just concentrate on getting down to 10 mg of Valium. I think I got over the hump of my last drop, I still feel terrible of course but I can tell I am over the hard part of the drop which took 10 days. I will try another 10% drop in December. Thank you for replying I do really appreciate it.

[Shep]

3 hours ago, Kingy said:

Yes I mean fatigue which leads to depression especially if I try to go shopping or do something that aggravates my nervous system.

 

Do you think this could be the Valium and not Zolpidem? You're taking diazepam during the day (which is when I'm assuming you're doing your shopping). Diazepam is very sedating and causes fatigue for a lot of people. 

[Kingy]

I am not sure which it is to be honest. I will just be patient and taper Valium down to 10 mg and then review the situation. Thanks for your support

[Shep]

Sounds good, @KingyLet us know how you do over the coming days. 

[Kingy]

Hello 

I am still not good but maybe feeling a little better. The worst symptoms are fatigue and the bad dreams when I do sleep. I have been going to AA meetings again and actually did a 30 min main share in front of 22 people on Sunday. something I could have never even considered a month ago. I am on 15 mg of diazepam, 10 mg Zolpidem and 20 mg of Paxil. Should I be thinking of dropping anther 10% of diazepam? my last drop was early November. Anyhow thanks for your help. I really want to get better. The brain fog is not as bad but still significant, same with the depersonalization.

[mstimc]

This is great news, Kingy!  Congratulations on the presentation. You seem to have taken an important step--looking at your recovery over the long term instead of judging it one day to the next.  You looked back a month and saw progress.  You may have up days and down days,  but I bet in another month or two you'll be able to look back and see even more progress.  You're doing great!

[Shep]

On 11/23/2022 at 11:15 AM, Kingy said:

I am on 15 mg of diazepam, 10 mg Zolpidem and 20 mg of Paxil. Should I be thinking of dropping anther 10% of diazepam? my last drop was early November.

 

We recommend holding for a least a month after a 10% reduction. 

 

Very glad to read of your progress and healing, Kingy. Please post another update before you make any more reductions. 

[Kingy]

Thanks for replying

I will wait till until December the 5th. I am feeling a little better, not much, but a little bit of hope. Thanks for your help

[Kingy]

Hello

I am feeling a little more energy. My last cut was the 5th of November so I am due another 10% cut today. I am still having vivid dreams etc and I am afraid how I am going to feel after I cut. I know I have to do it but 10% is not a big cut I am just asking for reassurance that I am going to be ok. Also I really want to get off Zolpidem 10 mg. Thanks for your support 

[Shep]

3 minutes ago, Kingy said:

I know I have to do it but 10% is not a big cut I am just asking for reassurance that I am going to be ok.

 

Since 10% is the maximum reduction we recommend per month for a harm-reduction approach, it actually is considered a big cut. 

 

If you are unsure you're ready for another reduction, please hold. You can also reduce less than 10%. 

 

That's great you're feeling more energy.  How is your sleep? 

[Kingy]

Hello

I am sleeping but still having vivid dreams and don't feel like it's a refreshing sleep. I will try and cut from 15 to 13.75 which is less then 10%. I will let you know how I feel and of course update my signature. Thanks 

[Shep]

Just now, Kingy said:

Hello

I am sleeping but still having vivid dreams and don't feel like it's a refreshing sleep. I will try and cut from 15 to 13.75 which is less then 10%. I will let you know how I feel and of course update my signature. Thanks 

 

Sounds good, Kingy. Thanks for the updates and letting us know how you're doing. 

[Kingy]

Hello

It's 6 days after my last cut of Diazepam. I am not feeling much different really, maybe slightly. I am still having bad sleeps with doom like feelings within my dreams {been have these a long time} still difficult to motivate but at least I am trying to get a routine going by going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time no matter how bad I feel. I am just wondering if my brain will ever feel refreshed and excited about anything again. Anyhow thanks for your help, I think I am just asking for reassurance that I will heal. 

[Shep]

Yes, I believe you will heal. The refreshing feeling you're talking about does come back, but it can take a very long time. 

 

Are you eating a healthy diet - low in carbs and sugar with plenty of healthy protein? Are you drinking enough water throughout the day? Keeping hydrated and fueled with good foods are important in feeling strong. 

[Kingy]

Thanks for replying, yes I am staying away from sugars and caffeine, I am eating good foods eggs lean meats and some fruits. I never have takeaways or  chocolates etc. I think I am doing all I can at the moment. I will not make another cut until January. Thanks for your help

 

[Shep]

9 minutes ago, Kingy said:

Thanks for replying, yes I am staying away from sugars and caffeine, I am eating good foods eggs lean meats and some fruits. I never have takeaways or  chocolates etc. I think I am doing all I can at the moment. I will not make another cut until January. Thanks for your help

 

 

Your diet sounds great, Kingy. Yes, holding until January sounds like a great plan. There's no rush. 

[Kingy]

Hello

It's 13 days since my last 10% cut of diazepam. For the last 6 days I have experiencing really deep mental fatigue. I can't shake it off, it's quite debilitating and scary at times. I won't cut for a while I am hoping this extreme tiredness alleviates a little to a manageable level. Thanks for you support 

[Shep]

@Kingy With diazepam's long half life, many people report they don't feel the withdrawal for a week or so after reducing. It sounds like this last reduction caught up to you and is saying to slow down going forward. Holding is a great plan. However, if you feel the reduction is too much, you may want to updose. You may not want to updose the full 10%, but perhaps go back up 5%. Benzos have a 2 - 4 week window when it's safe to updose. 

[Kingy]

Thanks for replying, I will try and stick it out and hope that I feel a little bit better soon. I won't do another cut for a while maybe mid January. Thanks again

[Kingy]

Hello

I had my last cut of Diazepam on the 5th of December so I am due to cut tomorrow 10%, I am thinking that the Paxil has caused me the most damage. I will continue cutting Diazepam until I get to 10 mg then I will ask for advice on what to do next. Thank you for your support

[Shep]

Thanks for checking in, @Kingy How are you feeling? 

 

Please let us know how you do with the reduction. 

[Kingy]

I have been feeling the same for about 3 and half years, very ill, I will do another 10% drop of Diazepam today and just hope it is not too bad. I really don't know how I am going to get through all this, it is extremely difficult. Thanks for replying.

[Shep]

5 hours ago, Kingy said:

I have been feeling the same for about 3 and half years, very ill, I will do another 10% drop of Diazepam today and just hope it is not too bad. I really don't know how I am going to get through all this, it is extremely difficult. Thanks for replying.

 

Going forward, you want to try the Brassmonkey Slide. Please see the first post in this thread:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

The slide allows 4 smaller weekly reductions instead of one larger monthly reduction. 

 

Please don't rush this, Kingy. It's possible that holding could help. Also, as we discussed earlier in your thread, once you decrease the benzo to a certain point, you may want to concentrate on getting off the Paxil.

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Some of what you're dealing with now may be side effects of the antidepressant breaking through as the benzo is decreased. 

[Kingy]

hello

it's been 11 days since my last drop of diazepam (down to 12.5 mg) I don't feel any worse really but still feel awful. I just want to sleep to get out of life because it's unbearable at times. I sleep through the night and just have weird dreams which are not that disturbing. However when I try to stay asleep I have very intense suicidal ideation until I wake up. I have been like this for over 3 years and I am wondering if I will ever get well. I have agoraphobia and no interest in anything and also no energy but I am very restless. I think the Paxil did the main damage. Like you said, maybe when I get down to 10 mg I will start with the Paxil. I have some good scales and will do a dry cut extremely slow. Is there anything you can suggest that I do to try and keep myself alive through this traumatic period? I dare not call the medical profession because a) it's useless and b) they would put me in a psych unit if I told them how I really feel. I live alone so you can imagine how hard it is for me. Thank you for your help, it's priceless.

[getofflex]

I would suggest that you hold for a while, to give your nervous system a chance to rest and recover, before doing more tapering.  I'm sorry you are going through this.  Are you tapering the diazepam now because of an adverse reaction to it?   

 

I would work on non drug coping skills, and read success stories to help you keep your hope going, and not fall into despair.  I agree with Shep - once you get to a certain point with the Benzo, then work on getting off the Paxil.  Of course, we only taper one drug at a time, so you would hold on your dose of the Benzo and other drugs during your Paxil taper. 

 

I'm sure it must be really difficult because you live alone, and this is wintertime.  The short days and long nights can cause depression.  Are you physically able to get outside and take a walk?  I walk almost every day, even in winter, by bundling up.  It really helps. The exercise boosts endorphins which lifts your mood, and the fresh air and sunshine do the same.  

 

 

Steps for Managing WD Symptoms

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Success Stories

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by getofflex

[Kingy]

Thank you for replying, I got really ill with Paxil about 3 and half years ago then I was Polly drugged with every Antidepressant you can think of which of course made me so very ill. I was put on 30 mg of diazepam and a 10 mg of Zolpidem. I really think diazepam stopped me from suicide, I was so ill. However it has stopped working and that's why I came her to SA. Shep advised me to taper diazepam first and we agreed I would try and get to 10 mg then see what to do next. I am going to hold for a while, at least until the end of feb. I will try, I have been trying to go out shopping etc but it's really hard but I guess there is no other way. Thank you for responding, I really appreciate it.

[getofflex]

I'm glad you listened to Shep's advice.  I think you will gradually feel better as you hold, as your brain adjusted to the reduction you did a couple of weeks ago of your diazepam.  I just want to reassure you, that as you slowly and carefully taper off these drugs, you will feel better.  The keys are patience, time, persistence, and endurance.  

Edited January 17, 2023 by getofflex

[Kingy]

Thank you, I will take it slow. Do you think the lower I get the better I will feel? I do feel terrible still but slightly better the last two days, thank you for your help. I do really appreciate it. If I get well I will dedicate the rest of my life to helping others. I have been in AA for 34 years and I have never touched a drop of alcohol in all that time and still don't want to, so I know helping others helps me. I will let you know how I get on. Thanks

[getofflex]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:58 AM, Kingy said:

Do you think the lower I get the better I will feel?

If you taper very slowly and carefully and find non drug ways of dealing with your symptoms then yes, you may feel better as you taper.  One thing I’ve found was as I tapered I had to find non drug alternatives for dealing with the anxiety and depression that were the reasons I was put on the drugs.   

[Kingy]

Hello

I am due for another 10% cut of diazepam, I am currently on 12.5 mg, 10 mg of Zolpidem, 20 mg of Paxil. Nothing much has changed over the last 3 years, I am still having intense suicidal thoughts in my sleep, I think just before I wake/ I think the Zolpidem is making me more depressed and tired but ultimately I feel that Paxil is the main culprit for the way I am feeling. Should just concentrate on diazepam or try dropping 10% of one of the other medications? thanks for any input.