sandnit Posted April 21 Author Share Posted April 21 @Onmyway, thank you for your message. So grateful for it! Yes, I'll order a stabilisation strip and take a break from tapering and see how I feel in one month. I'm hoping it is the add up of all the things that happened lately and not just the tapering rate. I'll find out when I'm ready to taper again. 44 minutes ago, Onmyway said: This will get better. Everybody heals. Just slow and steady. And remember to be extra compassionate to yourself during these times. This is very hard. Your body and mind are doing their best. This will get better. Yes it will get better.... Underneath all of it I know this but sometimes it is good to get reminded! Thank you. 45 minutes ago, Onmyway said: PS I don't believe in Murphy's law. It's a way for us to keep focusing on the negative and keeps us pessimistic and hopeless. There's plenty of reasons to be hopeful. And I'm saying that through a wave. This is a great way of looking at it! There are so many reasons to be hopeful indeed! I hope you get through your wave soon. You got this! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 I ordered the stabilisation strip and I'm holding on 4,5mg. I think my body and mind are definitely having a hard time adjusting. This wave is much harder compared to the ones I felt holding om 5mg. I hope I stabilise a bit soon because this is so hard. I can barely function...... But I'm doing my best. @Onmyway, last week I had bouts of nausea and bowel issues on top of the DP, DR, chemical feeling of anxiety etc. And this night I had a nightmare (that's new for me). These are all part of the game right?? Praying for some relief soon! Wishing you all good healing 1 In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted April 25 Moderator Share Posted April 25 (edited) Hi @sandnit Yes, unfortunately, all part of the game. The good thing is, we know it's time limited and waves pass. It's no wonder that this wave is harder - not only have you started tapering but your poor body has been dealing with physical illnesses, extra demands from kids being sick, injury that got cleaned without an anesthetic, tooth issues (antibiotic?). Withdrawal is hard under stable circumstances. Life challenges make it even harder. Please give yourself a break and compassion. This is difficult. Not sure what your internal dialogue is but if it is as harsh as most of us, remember to remind yourself to be gentle to yourself. Just as a reminder, can you please update your signature @sandnitwith your taper up to now so we can have a quick look when we advise? Wishing you some respite soon Omw Edited April 25 by Onmyway "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
sandnit Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 24 minutes ago, Onmyway said: It's no wonder that this wave is harder - not only have you started tapering but your poor body has been dealing with physical illnesses, extra demands from kids being sick, injury that got cleaned without an anesthetic, tooth issues (antibiotic?). Withdrawal is hard under stable circumstances. Life challenges make it even harder. @Onmyway, so true. I didn't have any antibiotics thank god. 27 minutes ago, Onmyway said: Please give yourself a break and compassion. This is difficult. Not sure what your internal dialogue is but if it is as harsh as most of us, remember to remind yourself to be gentle to yourself. My inner dialogue is pretty harsh indeed. A lot of thoughts are like" I just started tapering for a little bit and look what is happening.... Is the rest of the taper going like this etc etc." also lost of thoughts on the wave not going away etc etc. They seem to be automated during waves but I'll try to remind myself to stay realistic. And I have a hard time accepting the way I feel. I'm trying to work on that to. 33 minutes ago, Onmyway said: Just as a reminder, can you please update your signature @sandnitwith your taper up to now so we can have a quick look when we advise? Yes I will do so soon. Thank you @Onmyway! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 @Onmyway, i have updated my signature. Thanks for the reminder. This morning i had small moments of feeling a little bit better ....... now it's back to feeling blahhh. Could this be little signs of healing / stabilizing? Although i asked the taperings strip pharmacy i wanted a max 10% reduction if i look closely now see that the rate of reduction is quicker. I trused them in this but should have looked better myself. Within 20 days i was down to 4,5mg which is about 12 -13% reduction per month. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted April 26 Moderator Share Posted April 26 That's great news @sandnit. Every little bit of feeling good is a glimpse of what the future will look like. And thank you for updating your signature. Oh that is really bad about the pharmacy. If I were you, I would switch to liquid escitalopram or making your own solution. Or cutting your own drug. It may be more effort but at least you don't depend on other people. And I would then maybe do a Brassmonkey slide method. Seems like escitalopram is available as a liquid in the NL. https://www.geneesmiddeleninformatiebank.nl/pars/h111199.pdf The liquid you would dilute to get precise doses, it is really not very difficult. I have been doing this for 5 years now and happy to help calculate dosages. You can even do daily tiny reductions with this. Hope your windows get bigger! OMW "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
sandnit Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 2 hours ago, Onmyway said: Every little bit of feeling good is a glimpse of what the future will look like @Onmyway, i sure hope i get more glimpses . And i hope the whole taper isn't like the way I've been feeling lately. I guess a slower more steady taper could prevent this right? 2 hours ago, Onmyway said: Oh that is really bad about the pharmacy. If I were you, I would switch to liquid escitalopram or making your own solution. Or cutting your own drug. It may be more effort but at least you don't depend on other people. And I would then maybe do a Brassmonkey slide method. Seems like escitalopram is available as a liquid in the NL. https://www.geneesmiddeleninformatiebank.nl/pars/h111199.pdf The liquid you would dilute to get precise doses, it is really not very difficult. I have been doing this for 5 years now and happy to help calculate dosages. You can even do daily tiny reductions with this. Yes, the liquid as available here. This has crossed my mind a lot to, I think i will do a cross taper to the liquid. Better to wait a bit until more stable right ? It's better to not be dependent and it's much cheaper to. How much would you dilute the 20 mg/ml liquid to do precise doses and what syringe would i best use? Also how long can you keep the diluted liquid generally? Thanks so much for your help @Onmyway!! Wishing you big windows and all the best! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted April 27 Moderator Share Posted April 27 Hi @sandnit, If the liquid is 20mg/ml, and you are taking 4.5 ml, I would dilute 1ml of the drug into 19ml of the solution. You now have 20ml of solution which contains 20mg of drug so each 1ml solution has 1mg of the drug. You can then take 4.5ml of that solution. Or alternatively, you can take 0.5ml of the drug, dilute it into 9.5ml of water and take 4.5ml of the solution. First one would give you 4 day's worth and the second one would give you 2 days worth. you can keep it in the fridge for a couple of days or make it new every day. I think it should be OK for some time (but don't know for sure). Please read the leaflet that comes with the liquid medicine carefully. liquid Citalopram had 1.25 times the strength of the tablet. 1ml of citalopram (not escitalopram!) had 40mg citalopram but that was equivalent to 50mg tablet pill citalopram. It doesn't have to be the same for escitalopram but please read carefully for any warnings to make sure. This will be stated on the leaflet. I'd suggest that you stabilize at 4.5mg strips for an extra month (or two if necessary). Then move to 4.5mg liquid the month after that and then you can start tapering slowly. The slower you go the fewer symptoms you should feel in principle. Let me know if you have any questions about this. Need to get some zzzs and should log off before making mistakes! "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
sandnit Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 @Onmyway, thanks! I hope you got some good zzzs! That's great info! Yes, I'll will read the leaflet carefully when starting the liquid. But first I need to stabilise, today was without windows unfortunately and compared to yesterday was worse. I wish this process was more linear and predictable that would make it a bit easier. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted April 28 Author Share Posted April 28 I was hopefull for bigger windows after the small window but I still feel awful. The constant chemical anxious feeling of doom / blaahhh is far out the worst symptom. As a result I have these rambling thoughts. @Onmyway, is this a common symptom during WD and waves? On a positive note some symptoms seem to have lessened like for instance the nausea and bowel issues are a lot better. Also the muscle twitching seems to have lessened significantly. Yaw clenching is a symptom that came again after being gone for a while. And instead of be really cold I'm not sweating a lot. It so weird. @Onmyway, is there a pattern people see in regards to what symptoms come first and what go first ? Or is this also totally random? I guess time and acceptance and knowing this is all part of the process are my friends right? But ppffff it's hard but I know this will pass ! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted April 28 Moderator Share Posted April 28 I wish I could reassure you @sandnitbut the symptoms come and go as they wish. I think the agitation calms first (but can return). I'll propose something that will seem counterintuitive but works. Accept that this is how things are going to be for a while. Don't fight it, don't wish it away, don't look for changes and windows, but just notice the experience. Don't evaluate it as bad or good etc. "Ah, Old friend anxiety is back. This is not ideal. Oh well, I can wash the dishes while it continues sucking. Oh, I'm awake at 4. Oh well, this is how things are now. They won't be like this forever but this is my reality." Then sink into that reality, experience it with all it's feelings in your body. Don't look for windows or changes. Just witness your experience. Don't judge it as good or bad. Don't be scared of it. Don't be scared of the anxiety or anger. "Oh, I'm sad/angry/anxious. It's not my favorite feeling but it's a feeling. It's not informative the way other feelings are because it's caused by withdrawal not by anything real. I don't need to react to it. (this can stop ruminating cycles). I need to just feel this and let it pass through my body. My body can bear this minute by minute." breathe in for 3, breathe out slower for 6 counts. Do it as often as needed. This is like standing in a queue. Nobody likes it but we can bear it and get through it. It won't harm us, just needs to go through our body. This attitude was the game changer for me. It really shifted things. Have you looked up Claire Weekes? 2 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
sandnit Posted April 28 Author Share Posted April 28 @Onmyway, thanks so much for this. You are right , I have been focusing way to much on the symptoms and wishing them away/ fighting them. Yes I think I can definitely work with this. I actually did this during a long wave some time ago.... I guess the where forgotten during the window that followed and I needed reminding. I thank you for this. I'll get to work on this. Grateful for your help! 2 In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted April 28 Moderator Share Posted April 28 This says it even better https://manchesteranxietyhelp.co.uk/how-to-apply-the-claire-weekes-approach-to-anxiety-recovery/ 2 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
sandnit Posted Wednesday at 06:31 AM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 06:31 AM @Onmyway, this weird anxiety is skyhigh the last days and there is no sign of letting up so im trying to implement the Claire Weekes method but I struggle with this fact that i know a big part of the anxiety is caused by WD. How do you deal with this. Does it even matter what caused the anxiety or sensitisation?? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted Thursday at 06:07 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 06:07 PM @Onmyway, I'm so sorry to bother you. But I'm worried and struggling so much at the moment. Yesterday afternoon and evening I felt a little bit better but today is really terrible again. I'm really trying to accept the way I feel but I can barely function due to this awful weird anxiety and intrusive thoughts that is there most of the day. I got a family with 2 kids who depend on me. I can still manage at the moment (without any enjoyment) but and I'm worried it will stay like this or get worse. The physical symptoms seem better but l'm stuck with the awful anxiety. During the last waves it felt different. Sleep fluctuates but thank god in general isn't that bad either. I generally sleep untill 5 in the morning. So if I go to bed early I get a decent amount of hours. Its been 11 days since the last drop from 4,4mg to 4,5mg. So still early days for stabilization right? could a small updose help? Or could this stir things up even more? I would rather not updose and wait for stability...... it is so damn hard at the moment. Aaarrg In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted Thursday at 10:14 PM Moderator Share Posted Thursday at 10:14 PM @sandnitI think better to stay for now. This should start easing up soon. Better to hold at the lower dose for a while than yo-yo. I usually get one week of bliss (honeymoon) after a cut. Then a couple of weeks of an uptick of symptoms. Then it eases up. In the worst of it, can you take aspirin? It's shown to reduce cortisol in small studies and may help calm the agitation. Acceptance isn't about liking the situation and not worrying about it's consequences or not trying to problem solve by resigning completely, it's about acknowledging the situation and recognising our limits in trying to fix it. Do I wish I could sleep longer? Yes. Will I take melatonin if needed, to help it? Yes. Will I obsess about fixing my sleep and resent not being able to sleep or constantly look for ways to fix it? No. You'd be surprised how much you can endure. So don't try to anticipate how this will impact you or your family if it goes longer. You will all adapt and get through it. Remember to be gentle to yourself. You're much more resilient than you think. One of my favorite sayings: "this is tough but you are tougher!" Also check out the quote on my signature. You'll be OK. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
sandnit Posted Friday at 06:12 AM Author Share Posted Friday at 06:12 AM 7 hours ago, Onmyway said: think better to stay for now. This should start easing up soon. Better to hold at the lower dose for a while than yo-yo. I usually get one week of bliss (honeymoon) after a cut. Then a couple of weeks of an uptick of symptoms. Then it eases up. @Onmyway, yes I will soldier on. Being sick and all the dentists stuff already pushed me into a wave. On top of the taper. The wave seemed to let up over a couple of days ( maybe my honeymoon?) and then it got much worse. So I hope it eases up a little bit soon. 7 hours ago, Onmyway said: the worst of it, can you take aspirin? It's shown to reduce cortisol in small studies and may help calm the agitation. Hmmm never tried aspirin. Could this not give me more symptoms? I'll try to work on acceptance in the meantime. Not trying to fix things. The intrusive thinking and worrying is almost automatic. I'll acknowledge the thoughts and try not identify with them and then soldier on. Thank you so much for your help. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted Friday at 06:33 AM Moderator Share Posted Friday at 06:33 AM I totally understand @sandnit. Not only are the intrusive thoughts independent of anything, they also are more triggering for me - it's like my mind is a smoke detector that overreacts to everything - including burning candles or cooking in the stove. Aspirin doesn't make things worse in me but can't know for everyone. I only recommend it under desperate circumstances. You can try a baby aspirin if you are feeling bad. In general aspirin lowers risk of depression https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31671812/ "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
sandnit Posted Friday at 06:54 AM Author Share Posted Friday at 06:54 AM 10 minutes ago, Onmyway said: Not only are the intrusive thoughts independent of anything, they also are more triggering for me - it's like my mind is a smoke detector that overreacts to everything - including burning candles or cooking in the stove. @Onmyway, yes its so weird. When not in a wave I do not have this. I guess it is the destabilised state the nervous system is in that is telling our mind to be extra alert. Good when there is real danger but it sucks when there isn't:) 18 minutes ago, Onmyway said: Aspirin doesn't make things worse in me but can't know for everyone. I only recommend it under desperate circumstances. You can try a baby aspirin if you are feeling bad. Ok, I'll maybe try one. But Im a little bit hesitant of taking anything that could make things worse In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted Saturday at 07:21 AM Author Share Posted Saturday at 07:21 AM @Onmyway, yesterday end of morning I noticed things easing up, afternoon and evening it felt much better. Even my appetite was back for a while:) This morning it's back to feeling awful. It is such a rollercoaster. But yesterday must be a good sign right? Ok back to practice acceptance and patience. Wish you all the best and great healing! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
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