sandnit Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 @Altostrata, 4 minutes ago, Altostrata said: However, intermittent windows indicate you may be stabilizing on 5mg. Ow that would be great. So now I just hold on 5mg until fully stable? How would I know when I reach that point? Should there be no more waves? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted February 28, 2023 Administrator Share Posted February 28, 2023 58 minutes ago, sandnit said: So now I just hold on 5mg until fully stable? How would I know when I reach that point? Should there be no more waves? That is correct. This will be very gradual and slow. You don't have to post daily notes for the time being. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 @Altostrata, I know this won't be fully predictable but 8 hours ago, Altostrata said: That is correct. This will be very gradual and slow. Are we talking weeks or months? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 1, 2023 Administrator Share Posted March 1, 2023 It would be months. You might try an increase to 6mg if you want to chance it. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 @Altostrata, 3 minutes ago, Altostrata said: would be months. Although I was hoping to start tapering sooner. I understand why it is important to stabilise. Maybe it is good to start the taper again in August? Would that be a long enough hold? 23 minutes ago, Altostrata said: You might try an increase to 6mg if you want to chance it. I rather not increase. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 1, 2023 Administrator Share Posted March 1, 2023 No one can tell how long you need to stay at 5mg to stabilize. You might be able to taper in August, you might not. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 @Altostrata, understood. And will it be a path of waves and windows to stabilisation? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 1, 2023 Administrator Share Posted March 1, 2023 I believe we've gone through this cycle of questions before. Please re-read this topic from the beginning. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 @Altostrata, ok. Thank you for your help and time. I'm so grateful! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 Update: It seems the symptom pattern has changed into shorter windows more waves. But it also seems the waves are not that intense when it comes to some symptoms. I do still have pretty intense head pressure feeling, anhedonia, DR/DP, feeling of doom and a new one is tiredness in afternoon and evening. Symptoms like anxiety, body zaps and muscle twitching have reduced. Also sometimes the feeling of appetite is returning. @Altostrata, I read a lot of people have these symptoms after stopping the drug but I'm am still on it. Is it common while tapering to feel these symptoms? Are they the results of my to fast taper / protracted withdrawal? Could the change in pattern and intensity of symptoms mean I'm in the process of stabilizing? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 10, 2023 Administrator Share Posted March 10, 2023 On 3/8/2023 at 3:11 AM, sandnit said: Is it common while tapering to feel these symptoms? Are they the results of my to fast taper / protracted withdrawal? Could the change in pattern and intensity of symptoms mean I'm in the process of stabilizing? All of these questions have been answered earlier in this topic. Please do not tag me again with these questions. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted March 10, 2023 Author Share Posted March 10, 2023 I am sorry. I just feel so insecure sometimes. I will not tag you again with these questions. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted May 28, 2023 Author Share Posted May 28, 2023 Update and question: April and may where really good for me. Appart from a few of days I felt good. Mood was good and sleep was great. So grateful for this. Last week I thought I was drinking a alcohol free beer, it turned out it contained 2% alcohol, I had two. After a couple of days symptoms like head pressure feeling, tinnitus, anhedonia, anxiety/ feeling of doom started ramping up. So I'm back in a wave now. Could the alcohol be the reason for this? Hope this wave doesn't take too long. Still hope I can start my taper again in August. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 28, 2023 Administrator Share Posted May 28, 2023 It will take perhaps a week or 2 for your system to settle down from the alcohol. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 Thank you for the reply. This is good to know. It's been a week but i'm still in the wave. I know the med and alcohol are not friends but it's a little scary that such a small amount of alcohol can cause this much ruckus. Is my system still so sensitized? This makes me want to be even more careful with tapering in the future. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 30, 2023 Administrator Share Posted May 30, 2023 You will need to avoid alcohol. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 6 hours ago, Altostrata said: You will need to avoid alcohol. Absolutely! It wasn't my intention to take alcohol. I thought I was drinking non-alcoholic beer. I will be even more careful in the future. Thank you! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 Update: I almost forgot how awful a wave feels. Unfortunately my system didn't settle down yet it actually ramped up more and more symptoms appeared like hot flashes, night sweating and my gut issues incl. lose stool. Also it is so hard to concentrate/ think straight but the worst symptom by far is the constant sort of chemical feeling of anxiety/ feeling of doom. There is no sign of letup yet. I just have to accept and remind myself that this is not permanent and will change! I thought I had reached WD normal/ stabilized. Is it fair to say I have not reached this yet ? or was it only the intake of alcohol that messed it up? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 Update: I'm am still in the wave. It has been two weeks since it started. This wave feel different than the last wave. Some symptoms are less intens compared to the last wave, that's positive!! But one symptom, the all day persistent sort of chemical feeling of anxiety/ feeling of doom with absolutly no season for it, is so hard to deal with/ accept. But i'm trying to be positive. On 5/28/2023 at 2:39 PM, Altostrata said: It will take perhaps a week or 2 for your system to settle down from the alcohol I was thinking why my system didn't fully settle down yet. A couple of days after the alcohol intake i forgot to take my pill on the regular time and i took it about 4 hours later. Can this prolong the wave ? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 6, 2023 Administrator Share Posted June 6, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 12:42 PM, sandnit said: A couple of days after the alcohol intake i forgot to take my pill on the regular time and i took it about 4 hours later. yes 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 20 hours ago, Altostrata said: yes Thank you for the reply. The last wave, after a pretty long window, lasted 3 to 4 weeks. Maybe this wave needs this time as well? No one knows. As an engineer i work with logical and linear processes. I'm trying to find patterns and logics in this process but this is such an illogical and non linear process what makes it so hard to grasp. Maybe it is better not to try and understand it and just go with whatever is happing. Easier said than done but I will try! So this wave means that I'm not stable enough yet to start my taper yet after this wave subsides right? Would it be best to hold longer ? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 7, 2023 Administrator Share Posted June 7, 2023 It's not that hard to understand. Drinking alcohol and skipping doses will further disrupt a nervous system already destabilized from withdrawal. Every disruption requires a period of stabilization. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, Altostrata said: It's not that hard to understand. Drinking alcohol and skipping doses will further disrupt a nervous system already destabilized from withdrawal. Every disruption requires a period of stabilization. Yes I'm overanalyzing things. Well noted and thank you for your help! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
sandnit Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 After the last wave i had a reasonable period with good and less good days. Unfortunately I'm back in a wave, which feels as bad as ever. My head feels like scrabbled eggs, can't think straight, extreme tinnitus, head pressure feeling predominately around the temples, tight yaw muscles, GI are a mess, night sweating and this chemical feeling of anxiety. I also wake up really early and can't get back to normal sleep. All things I felt in previous waves except it all feels a little different. Unlike the last wave I can't pinpoint a clear trigger. Do waves occur without a clear trigger? Is this just my nervous system trying to heal a part of my brain? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Doctorsrcrap Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 @sandnit Hiya. I'm not a mod so can't give any advice but thought I would say hello and answer yiur question. My symptoms don't follow any pattern and have no triggers. My body just does whatever the heck it wants regardless of what I do. I think this whole process is just random. I think what you described is normal as in the wave is the same but feels different. That can happen. Even sometimes you can't pinpoint why it feels different it just does. Anyway good luck! 2015- Jan 2021 20mg Citalapram Jan 2021- April 2021 Sertraline (CT) June 2021 - Fluoxetine & Trazadone Oct 2021- Trazadone to Quitiapin Oct 2021 to June 2022 switches Duloxetine then paroxatine then Venlafaxine. June 2022- venlafaxine for 5 or 6 weeks at 37.5 twice daily. Upped for one week to 75mg twice daily but caused panic attacks. Dropped back down to 37.5 twice daily. Panic attacks stopped. 1 week- 62.5mg 1 week- 50mg 1 week- 37.5mg 1 week - 25mg ANTIDEPRESSANT FREE SINCE JULY 22ND 2022!! 18/05/23 - 01-06/23 doxycycline for a rat bite Taken propranalol since 2015. 80mg. 21/11/22 76mg. 28/11/22 72mg. 05/12/22 68mg. 19/12/22 64mg. 27/12/22 60mg. 02/01/23 56mg. 09/01/23 50mg. 16/01/23 47mg. 23/01/23 44mg. 29/01/23 40mg. 05/02/23 38mg. 12/02/23 35mg. 19/02/23 32mg. 25/02/23 27mg. 04/03/23 25mg. 11/03/23 22mg. 17/03/23 19mg. 24/03/23 20mg. 05/04/23 18mg. 11/04/23 16mg. 17/04/23 14mg. 27/04/23 20mg. 19/06/23 19mg. 25/06/23 20mg. 04/08/23 18mg. 11/08/23 17mg. 16/08/23 16mg. 25/08/23 15mg. 01/09/23 14mg. 08/09/23 13mg. 15/08/23 12mg. 22/09/23 11mg. 29/09/23 10mg. 19/11/23 9mg. 26/11/23 8mg. 03/12/23 7mg. 10/12/23 6mg. 17/12/23 5mg. 24/12/23 4mg. 31/01/23 3mg. 07/01/24 2mg. 13/01/24 1mg. 19/01/24 0mg. DONE! Link to comment
sandnit Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 @Doctorsrcrap, hello to you too and thank you for your reply! I always have the urge to do something to make the symptoms go away or dwell on them but I just need to accept it and move through the wave without fighting it ...... this randomness together with the symptoms makes it so damn hard though. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Momiki Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Hey fellow Dutchie. Sorry to hear you are struggling. Regarding triggering of waves: Do you take any medication other than escitalopram? Not just ones you think might interact, but any medication at all. A few weeks ago I used a topical steroid (Dutch: hormoonzalf, dus huidcreme) and didn't realize it could upset my nervous system. A while back I was prescribed a stomach protector and it wasn't until the first day of taking it that I looked up the drug interaction between this drug and citalopram and learned that this stomach protector interferes with the breakdown of citalopram. Another common trigger for waves is stress. This can both be bad stress (relationship problems, financial, pressure at work), but also good stress (going on fun outings). Your tight jaw muscles, pressure around the temples and tinnitus sound to me you might have triggerpoints in your neck and shoulder muscles. Unfortunately I'm also currently in a wave and struggling with brain fog, so I'm having a hard time formulating my thoughts to explain this and convince you that triggerpoints in muscles can cause not just pain but also nausea, tinnitus, vision problems etc. This website has a lot of information. I'm linking to an article about headaches, but other pages on the website are informative too: https://www.painscience.com/tutorials/headache.php I own a copy of the following book: https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/handboek-triggerpointtherapie/9200000030060078/?bltgh=ruOMlv-tA6pwVXequ-dInA.2_17.18.ProductTitle Regarding tinnitus they point to the sternocleidomastoid muscle (Dutch: borstbeen-sleutelbeen-tepelspier), muscles of mastication (Dutch: kauwspier) and lateral pterygoid muscle (Dutch: laterale vleugelvormige spieren). Youtube can be helpful for how to use self-massage for relief. My other tips: Read the "Symptoms and self-care" section of this forum, it has a wealth of information. You can also use the search function to more easily find topics about things that interest you. And read and follow some of the topics of other members. It helps with the "Is this normal?" questions. I'll be going on holiday later today, so it will take me a while to come back to you. 2006 - Paroxetine, 20 mg 2008 / 2018 - Several mostly unsuccessful attempts at tapering, without knowledge of withdrawal 2019 - Decrease from 20 mg to 15 mg (June), from 15 mg to 10 mg (Dec) 2020 - Switch to 10 mg liquid citalopram (Feb), decrease to 8 mg (Apr), 6 mg (June), 4 mg (July) without clear symptoms. 3.2 mg (Sep 9), 3 mg (Sep 23), 2.8 mg (Oct 10), 2.6 mg (Oct 26), 2 mg (Nov 13). Tapered to 1.68 mg in steps of 0.16 mg (Dec 3). Withdrawal kicked in hard. Increase to 1.8 mg (Dec 8), increase to 1.92 mg (Dec 18) 2021 - Increase to 2.2 mg (Jan 1), decrease to 2 mg (Feb 8 ), 1.92 mg (March 21), 1.8 mg (Apr 2), 1.68 mg (Apr 25), 1.56 mg (June 6), 1.52 mg (Sep 5), 1.48 mg (Sep 20), 1.44 mg (Oct 4), 1.4 mg (Oct 18), 1.36 (Nov 1) 2022 - 1.32 mg (Feb 4) - Covid (March 7) - 1.28 mg (Jul 21), 1.24 mg (Oct 3), 1.2 mg (Nov 26) 2023 - Holding at 1.2 mg Other medication: sumatriptan 50 mg, when needed (migraine) Link to comment
Momiki Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 This YouTube video might be informative for you as well. The second part is about going off antidepressants. 2006 - Paroxetine, 20 mg 2008 / 2018 - Several mostly unsuccessful attempts at tapering, without knowledge of withdrawal 2019 - Decrease from 20 mg to 15 mg (June), from 15 mg to 10 mg (Dec) 2020 - Switch to 10 mg liquid citalopram (Feb), decrease to 8 mg (Apr), 6 mg (June), 4 mg (July) without clear symptoms. 3.2 mg (Sep 9), 3 mg (Sep 23), 2.8 mg (Oct 10), 2.6 mg (Oct 26), 2 mg (Nov 13). Tapered to 1.68 mg in steps of 0.16 mg (Dec 3). Withdrawal kicked in hard. Increase to 1.8 mg (Dec 8), increase to 1.92 mg (Dec 18) 2021 - Increase to 2.2 mg (Jan 1), decrease to 2 mg (Feb 8 ), 1.92 mg (March 21), 1.8 mg (Apr 2), 1.68 mg (Apr 25), 1.56 mg (June 6), 1.52 mg (Sep 5), 1.48 mg (Sep 20), 1.44 mg (Oct 4), 1.4 mg (Oct 18), 1.36 (Nov 1) 2022 - 1.32 mg (Feb 4) - Covid (March 7) - 1.28 mg (Jul 21), 1.24 mg (Oct 3), 1.2 mg (Nov 26) 2023 - Holding at 1.2 mg Other medication: sumatriptan 50 mg, when needed (migraine) Link to comment
sandnit Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 @Momiki, hi to you! and thank you so much for your reply! 9 minutes ago, Momiki said: Do you take any medication other than escitalopram No, nothing other that the escitalopram. 12 minutes ago, Momiki said: Another common trigger for waves is stress Yeah, work was pretty busy lately but i didn't notice any stress ...... But i could be something to monitor in the future. 17 minutes ago, Momiki said: tight jaw muscles, pressure around the temples and tinnitus sound to me you might have triggerpoints I never had this before before using the med / withdrawal so i think is is a withdrawal system but it is worth looking into this, thank you !! Thank you for all the tips ! I hope you get through you wave soon and i wish you a great vacation! In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Momiki Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Yes, it's likely related to withdrawal. Serotonin also has a role on nerve cells controlling movement: https://www.simonsfoundation.org/2018/11/08/uncovering-serotonin-secrets-in-muscle-movement/ (Serotonin has a role in pretty much anything, including the GI tract). Massaging it won't cure it in the long run, but it can bring relieve. I have episodes of migraine/tension headache. I've been massaging my upper back, shoulders, neck and face more often recently, and now those episodes come without headache and nausea. Still feel weird/uncomfortable/heavy muscles in the rest of my body, but it's more tolerable. 2006 - Paroxetine, 20 mg 2008 / 2018 - Several mostly unsuccessful attempts at tapering, without knowledge of withdrawal 2019 - Decrease from 20 mg to 15 mg (June), from 15 mg to 10 mg (Dec) 2020 - Switch to 10 mg liquid citalopram (Feb), decrease to 8 mg (Apr), 6 mg (June), 4 mg (July) without clear symptoms. 3.2 mg (Sep 9), 3 mg (Sep 23), 2.8 mg (Oct 10), 2.6 mg (Oct 26), 2 mg (Nov 13). Tapered to 1.68 mg in steps of 0.16 mg (Dec 3). Withdrawal kicked in hard. Increase to 1.8 mg (Dec 8), increase to 1.92 mg (Dec 18) 2021 - Increase to 2.2 mg (Jan 1), decrease to 2 mg (Feb 8 ), 1.92 mg (March 21), 1.8 mg (Apr 2), 1.68 mg (Apr 25), 1.56 mg (June 6), 1.52 mg (Sep 5), 1.48 mg (Sep 20), 1.44 mg (Oct 4), 1.4 mg (Oct 18), 1.36 (Nov 1) 2022 - 1.32 mg (Feb 4) - Covid (March 7) - 1.28 mg (Jul 21), 1.24 mg (Oct 3), 1.2 mg (Nov 26) 2023 - Holding at 1.2 mg Other medication: sumatriptan 50 mg, when needed (migraine) Link to comment
sandnit Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 @Momiki, thanks so much. I understand, I will surely try this. Maybe it can bring some relief. In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 22, 2023 Administrator Share Posted July 22, 2023 The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sandnit Posted July 26, 2023 Author Share Posted July 26, 2023 Update: I'm still in the wave. Feels quite different from the last wave, the last days I have had this weird Zombi like feeling, DPR, dizziness. Tinnitus is better and the head pressure feeling on my temples has lifted a little. When in a wave it is so hard for me to rest in the thought that this wave will end. I'm always worried it will stay the same or get worse. Can anybody relate to this? In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Mentor Happy2Heal Posted July 26, 2023 Mentor Share Posted July 26, 2023 5 hours ago, sandnit said: When in a wave it is so hard for me to rest in the thought that this wave will end. I'm always worried it will stay the same or get worse. Can anybody relate to this? oh yes I think probably all of us can relate to this!!! I would be in a wave and fight the thoughts that it was gonna be bad, or never end or maybe even get worse It's hard to fight those thoughts when you are feeling poorly, it truly is in time you will get better about reminding yourself that it will get better and if you forget, you can just come here and say, hey, I think I need some reassurance that this is going to be ok alternatively, or in addition to this, you can browse the forum and read the stories of what others are going thru and how they are handling it, any maybe learn from them, or even maybe offer support this is a great way to take your mind off your own misery and it feels good to try to help someone else ~~~~~~~~~~~ your symptom pattern is changing and that is very normal for WD recovery these symptoms can be so damn strange! I can relate to the zombie like feeling, it is hard to explain to others but it's kind of like you're not real....? is it like that for you? I would sit at a table with others playing cards and wonder, can they tell that I am different? I feel so strange, is it obvious to anyone? but no one ever saw any difference in me. still amazes me because I just felt so incredibly strange, you know? I hope that this wave is a super short one for you and that you get great big wide open windows! Currently taking a break from mentoring but I'll be back pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total) Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. First attempt to get off it was 2007- WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". felt ok until Sept, then acute WD hit!! reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106 Tapered off to zero by Oct. 2017 Doing very well. Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, age 63 Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content PRESENT DAYS: Loving life! ❤️ with all it's ups and downs Link to comment
sandnit Posted July 26, 2023 Author Share Posted July 26, 2023 @Happy2Heal, I'm so grateful for your reply. It really helps me and put things into perspective. 12 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said: can relate to the zombie like feeling, it is hard to explain to others but it's kind of like you're not real....? is it like that for you? Yes that's how it feels for me to. It is so weird. Sometime it feels like I'm watching a movie but I'm not.... Really hard to explain indeed. But things will get better:) Thank you so much for reminding me!! I wish you all the best! 1 In 2016 Paroxetine 20mg for 4 months then stopped more or less cold turkey -> waves and windows pattern i now know Started 10mg Escitalopram 4 Mar 2022 From 10 to 20mg on 19 Apr 2022 From 20 to 15mg on 23 Jun 2022 From 15mg to 7,5mg on 5 Sept 2022 (I was supposed to drop from 15mg to 12,5mg but I accidentally used 5mg and half of 5mg pills instead of 10mg and half of 5mg pills, when I found out 2 weeks later I decided to keep to 7,5mg since most of the WD symptoms subsided by then, I now regret this. During this period I thought I also caught a stomach bug but after reading up here I think this was also WD symptoms) From 7,5mg to 5mg on 23 Sept 2022 Started Cross tapering Escitalopram 5mg to tapering strip brand from 26th of feb 2024 over one week and stabilised on 5mg untill 31 March 2024. 31 March 2024 started taper using tapering strips. Escitalopram 04/20/24 - 4,5mg (hold because of WD symptoms raming up), Link to comment
Mentor Happy2Heal Posted July 26, 2023 Mentor Share Posted July 26, 2023 15 minutes ago, sandnit said: But things will get better:) Thank you so much for reminding me!! it's my pleasure any time you forget, you can tag me and I will help to remind you A little warning though, sometimes I can get a bit chatty! but if I am talking too much it is fine to tell me, I won't be offended 16 minutes ago, sandnit said: I wish you all the best! thank you. wishing you as smooth a journey to healing as is possible!! ❤️ 1 Currently taking a break from mentoring but I'll be back pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total) Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. First attempt to get off it was 2007- WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". felt ok until Sept, then acute WD hit!! reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106 Tapered off to zero by Oct. 2017 Doing very well. Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, age 63 Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content PRESENT DAYS: Loving life! ❤️ with all it's ups and downs Link to comment
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