sandnit: escitalopram tapering - I think have withdrawal

[Nicolas45140]

1 hour ago, sandnit said:

Thanks for the reply Nick, it felt like WD symptom

It is WD symptoms. In WD you have physical symptoms and psychological symptoms. 
 

[sandnit]

Hi All,

 

tonight I slept until almost 06:00 which is better but I woke up feeling terrible. Physically and mentally it is a rollercoaster, I just feel so very weird.

I also had to go to the toilet twice with severe diarrhea this morning.

 

In a way i feels like i did right after a reduction only somewhat different. Is this what waves feel like? 

And is it common for the symptoms stack up like this during a wave? 

 

[sandnit]

Just to add on the post above. Is there a certain pattern a wave follows regarding symptoms and duration?  Or is it different for everyone and every wave? 

 

Thanks everyone!

[Nicolas45140]

4 minutes ago, sandnit said:

Just to add on the post above. Is there a certain pattern a wave follows regarding symptoms and duration?  Or is it different for everyone and every wave? 

 

Thanks everyone!

Hey… I guess everyone is different. We all take different medications, dosage, other drugs, our weight, our way of living…. But ones you will understand your waves and windows, it will normally repeat and you will know when it is so. 

[sandnit]

Sorry for all the questions. I would like to learn as much as possible so maybe I can cope with the next wave easier because I'm struggling big time the last few days.

 

I'm really grateful for finding this site because I have had this up and down pattern since starting the meds even during updosing.  I never had a stable long period on the meds. Could this be because updosed pretty quickly and began tapering pretty quick after ?? I just know these meds are not for me and I want to get of them but I need to be patient and not rush things. Why do doctors so easily prescribe these meds and even worse let you go up and taper like there are no consequences.... ??

 

Before starting the meds I had difficulty periods with ups and downs but they would be linked to an event like loosing a loved one or lost sleep due to newborn.

 

At the moment it feels so permanent....like the bad days are not going to end.... Rationally I know they will....but it is hard....

 

 

Thanks all !

[Nicolas45140]

1 hour ago, sandnit said:

Sorry for all the questions. I would like to learn as much as possible so maybe I can cope with the next wave easier because I'm struggling big time the last few days.

 

I'm really grateful for finding this site because I have had this up and down pattern since starting the meds even during updosing.  I never had a stable long period on the meds. Could this be because updosed pretty quickly and began tapering pretty quick after ?? I just know these meds are not for me and I want to get of them but I need to be patient and not rush things. Why do doctors so easily prescribe these meds and even worse let you go up and taper like there are no consequences.... ??

 

Before starting the meds I had difficulty periods with ups and downs but they would be linked to an event like loosing a loved one or lost sleep due to newborn.

 

At the moment it feels so permanent....like the bad days are not going to end.... Rationally I know they will....but it is hard....

 

 

Thanks all !

Don't be sorry.... We are all on the same boat. Nobody will have these answers. You are probably right cause when you start medication, the drug has to take place in your system and it can take up to months to fully work...(if we can say it works). But when you start you have lots of symptoms at the beginning and your doc add benzo to help you pass the tunnel... then he will play with dosage.... etc.... and after the taper session.... all of that is so confusing for your body. 

Dont trust big pharma. they all make money selling drugs. For them, a good patient is a sick patient. 

Old doctors will say that there is no problem with these drugs because laboratory or old litterature say so. when i listen to them, I get sick of it cause they dont want to listen and hopefully, new doctors are more aware of danger with drugs but they are very rare to find them. 

[sandnit]

@getofflex, i think i'm still somewhere in middle of the wave although some physical symptoms seem to be lessening somewhat. Metally, I'm still in this sort of depressive state and also have a very spaced out feeling. Together with the tinnitus and weird head pressure feeling it is hard to manage but somehow it does feel different from the last wave, maybe somewhat more manageable........ don't know it is hard to say. 

 

I really hope over time I improve and the windows start outlasting the waves.

 

On 11/9/2022 at 2:21 PM, getofflex said:

Yes, on both counts.  Waves can be induced by stress, so your 1 year old waking up a lot could be a factor.  And yes, waves are evidence that the brain is healing.  It feels counterintuitive, because you actually feel worse

I was thinking on what you said about waves induced by stress. Does this mean if i didn't have my 1 year old waking up i would now have had the wave?  Do waves come whenever healing is needed independent of other factors? How should i interpret this? My daughter was waking up alot again so my sleep was bad last night as well, could this or other stress keep the wave going longer / harder? 

 

Thanks so much for you effort!! 

 

[getofflex]

Sandnit please do not tag me unless it is an urgent question about tapering or reinstating, as requested in my signature.  Thank you.  Also, in the thread "What Will Get You Warned or Banned", 

 

On 6/15/2011 at 1:45 PM, Altostrata said:

- Overuse of tagging to get reassurance from the staff

Please be aware that the staff is all unpaid volunteers, who often have worries, jobs, families, and health issues of their own. While we do our best to help, none of them can fulfill the role of therapist or social worker. You cannot expect them to fulfill your emotional needs. 

 

If you want to go off psychiatric drugs, you must learn to manage habits of mind that might have led you to seek psychiatric treatment originally. These habits of mind may include: Irrational worrying, health anxiety, perseveration (repeating the same thing over and over again), rumination, inability to make decisions, needing constant reassurance, chronic pessimism, chronic hostility, finding fault with everything.

 

These habits of mind might have caused you a great deal of distress in your life, as well as causing distress to your family, friends, and employers, who may have urged you to seek psychiatric treatment. While we are sympathetic to the pain these problems have caused you, there is no way around your responsibility. If necessary, you may need to engage the services of a psychotherapist or other counselor to learn those self-management skills.

 

The staff here cannot meet the emotional needs that overwhelmed your family, friends, and employers, and it is unfair and exploitative of you to expect them to.

 

If a staff member communicates to you that you are wearing them out, please do not continue to demand their attention. We require you to respect the time, and dedication of the staff and limit tagging them to important questions about tapering or withdrawal symptoms.

 

[sandnit]

I'm so sorry getofflex, i was not aware, now i am and it will not happen again.

 

again, my apologies!

 

 

 

[sandnit]

Update:

 

I'm guess i'm still the the wave, yesterday i had some time in the afternoon that i felt some relief. The weird head pressure feeling was almost gone, a feeling of appetite returned and i felt better overall. I'm grateful for this.

Unfortunately the wave had other plans and this morning the symptoms are back, also the bouts of nausea returned:( I was hoping the end of the wave was reached but i guess i'm still not there. Or maybe i had a really short window ? ? I guess it is all part of the healing process.

 

Thanks all ! 

 

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, sandnit said:

I guess it is all part of the healing process.

Yes, it is all part of the healing process.  Did you read the link I gave you above on windows and waves in my first post?  Also, try reading this, it helps you to understand what is happening, and accept that this is a complex, up and down process.  Read the part about a building being repaired, while there are still people working in it.  

 

What is Happening in Your Brain? (Explains why recovery takes so long)

[sandnit]

16 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Yes, it is all part of the healing process.  Did you read the link I gave you above on windows and waves in my first post?  Also, try reading this, it helps you to understand what is happening, and accept that this is a complex, up and down process.  Read the part about a building being repaired, while there are still people working in it.  

I did read the link you send me in your first post. I'm so insecure about everything at the moment and my memory and concentration are a mess so thank you for reminding me.

The building being repaired is a great metaphor! Construction is ongoing

 

Thanks again for all your great work!

[sandnit]

Update:

 

I'm still in the wave, the bouts of nausea are getting less. The rest of the symptoms still there, also still wake up really early unable to fall back to sleep. I did have some short let up's where i feeling somewhat better.

The most difficult thing to deal with, and is mostly new to me,  is that I am experiencing a terrible sense of apathy, anhedonia. I'm trying to accept that this is all part of the healing process but this is very challenging at times.

This wave is longer and feels different/ different symptoms than the last one. Is this a good or bad thing? Or does the length and intensity of the wave say nothing and is just random healing going on?

[sandnit]

Update:

 

Been having some pretty good days although some are better and some are worse. Also it fluctuates during the day, i can be whistling one moment and the next moment a terrible feeling can pop up without a trigger i know of. I have been feeling most of the symptoms less but they sometimes pop up and go. It all seems to be very sensitive still. My whole family caught a stomach bug last week so this doesn't help but i really uptimistic with how things are going.

 

I visited my psychiatrist last week. I talked to her about the symptoms and also showed her this website. Thank god she broadly acknowledges and confirms the information given on this website! according to her some people do not have any major problems with getting of and tapering but some people can be very sensitive ......... i'm being an example.

I also talked to her about how to taper in a few months time, she told me using tapering strips could be a good way to taper off. We can make a tailor made tapering plan with the company that makes the tapering strips so we can taper nice and slow and hold the dose whenever is necessary. We didn't yet go into detail about the % of reductions etc. but it sounds good to me.

 

Does anybody have experience or advice about tapering strips ? 

 

Thanks all

 

 

 

 

[Nicolas45140]

27 minutes ago, sandnit said:

Update:

 

Been having some pretty good days although some are better and some are worse. Also it fluctuates during the day, i can be whistling one moment and the next moment a terrible feeling can pop up without a trigger i know of. I have been feeling most of the symptoms less but they sometimes pop up and go. It all seems to be very sensitive still. My whole family caught a stomach bug last week so this doesn't help but i really uptimistic with how things are going.

 

I visited my psychiatrist last week. I talked to her about the symptoms and also showed her this website. Thank god she broadly acknowledges and confirms the information given on this website! according to her some people do not have any major problems with getting of and tapering but some people can be very sensitive ......... i'm being an example.

I also talked to her about how to taper in a few months time, she told me using tapering strips could be a good way to taper off. We can make a tailor made tapering plan with the company that makes the tapering strips so we can taper nice and slow and hold the dose whenever is necessary. We didn't yet go into detail about the % of reductions etc. but it sounds good to me.

 

Does anybody have experience or advice about tapering strips ? 

 

Thanks all

 

 

 

 

https://www.jle.com/fr/revues/ipe/e-docs/un_sevrage_progressif_responsable_et_sur_a_laide_de_tapering_strips_323544/article.phtml
 

maybe you can translate… 

but it’s going in a good way. 
 

[sandnit]

9 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

maybe you can translate… 

Thank you Nicolas i will translate.

Are you using tapering strips as well?

[Nicolas45140]

I dont because for now only Holland is making them but there is discussion about it…. 

[sandnit]

He all ! hope you are doing good.

 

Last month was good in general. I had some bad days/ waves but they mostly lasted a day or 2. I thought maybe .... just maybe i'm through and stabilized but last week i think a bigger wave hit. The weird head feeling is back, i'm more anxious, i'm dizzy, more depressed and diarrhea returned. My 4 year old son had an operation last week and it was pretty stressful and before that i had a pretty stressful week at work. Could this set off a wave? And is it common to have some small waves before a big wave hits??

 

       

[Nicolas45140]

23 minutes ago, sandnit said:

The weird head feeling is back, i'm more anxious, i'm dizzy, more depressed and diarrhea returned

Hello to you, what do you mean by weird head feeling ? 
i have weird head feeling but don’t know how to explain it !! 

[sandnit]

2 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

Hello to you, what do you mean by weird head feeling ? 
i have weird head feeling but don’t know how to explain it !! 

Hi Nicolas, for me it is hard to describe as well. Sort of a feeling of pressure at my temples ....... i don't know just weird. Maybe it is because of the jaw tension ..... this is something i have during waves as well.

[Nicolas45140]

27 minutes ago, sandnit said:

Hi Nicolas, for me it is hard to describe as well. Sort of a feeling of pressure at my temples ....... i don't know just weird. Maybe it is because of the jaw tension ..... this is something i have during waves as well.

Hi. Similar but me it’s on the top of my head. Just some weird feeling all day long… and head pressure in the back of my head, just on the top of the neck…. very annoying !! 

[sandnit]

58 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

Hi. Similar but me it’s on the top of my head. Just some weird feeling all day long… and head pressure in the back of my head, just on the top of the neck…. very annoying !! 

Yeah, i think this is a WD symptom. During the waves it gets worse for me. It often goes along with brain for and a general feeling of bblllaahh.

[Nicolas45140]

12 minutes ago, sandnit said:

Yeah, i think this is a WD symptom. During the waves it gets worse for me. It often goes along with brain for and a general feeling of bblllaahh.

It is definitely WD symptoms !! 
bbllllaahh ??? What do you mean ? 
 

[sandnit]

6 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

bbllllaahh ??? What do you mean ? 

Feeling of anhedonia.

[sandnit]

Hi All,

 

One week ago i was thinking to start my taper again after a fairly stable period of about 1 month without any significant waves but now i hit a big wave again it seems and dealing with physical and mental WD symptoms.

I have some questions about tapering, the use of taperingstrips and when would be a good time to start my taper again. How would i know? Do i need to first reach stability without any waves ? 

I'm wondering if a moderator or expert is following my thread?? If not how do i get in contact, i do not want to tag someone unnecessary.

 

 

 

 

[Nicolas45140]

6 minutes ago, sandnit said:

Hi All,

 

One week ago i was thinking to start my taper again after a fairly stable period of about 1 month without any significant waves but now i hit a big wave again it seems and dealing with physical and mental WD symptoms.

I have some questions about tapering, the use of taperingstrips and when would be a good time to start my taper again. How would i know? Do i need to first reach stability without any waves ? 

I'm wondering if a moderator or expert is following my thread?? If not how do i get in contact, i do not want to tag someone unnecessary.

 

hello. Most of people says that we should not having symptoms to start weaning off antidepressant. 

I am in the same position. I am thinking to going back to dose of my antidepressant where i was with no symptoms et stabilise. 

Waiting isn't an answer i guess. That won't help us. 

6 minutes ago, sandnit said:

 

 

 

[j1290]

40 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

Most of people says that we should not having symptoms to start weaning off antidepressant. 

 

I haven't read through this thread, so this may not apply to this situation.  I only mention it because I spent a lot of months thinking I was in WD, when the symptoms were in fact normal for the version of the drug I was taking.  

 

I used to think that being stable meant an absence of symptoms, or feeling good.   I re-read a bunch of guides the other day.  As I understand it now, I think being stable means predictable symptoms, not an absence of them.  Long story short, I started my taper with predictable symptoms and so far have been successful.   Now that I've lowered my dose the WD Normal symptoms are less intense.  

 

Good luck!   I've had to spend a lot of time reading and re-reading the guides.  

[sandnit]

7 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Good luck!   I've had to spend a lot of time reading and re-reading the guides.  

 

Hey J1290, thanks for your input! That makes sense. Are you referring to the guides on this site? What guide in particular?

The waves are still unpredictable but the symptoms seem to be the same as during the last wave. Although they sometimes differ in intensity and form.  Is this predictable?? I don't know. I think I'm going to wait another month or two before starting my taper again or at least ride out this wave....

 

Do you know what to do to get the attention of a moderator/ expert ?

 

[j1290]

Hi Sandnit!  What I was referring to in particular was this quote from Brassmonkey's Tips and Tricks for Withdrawal:

 

Quote

So WDnormal is a pretty easy concept once you think about it. In a nutshell it’s ”as good as it gets at that time.”  It’s not feeling really good, it’s not feeling really bad, but rather a consistent level of feeling crappy that doesn’t change a lot from day to day for weeks at a time.

Getofflex gave you links to a bunch of important guides.  

 

7 hours ago, sandnit said:

The waves are still unpredictable but the symptoms seem to be the same as during the last wave. Although they sometimes differ in intensity and form.  Is this predictable??

I'm no expert and can't offer advice, but I can tell you my story.  

The Glenmullen checklist Getofflex linked for you was a gamechanger for me.  Once I started charting my symptoms, I found them to be super predictable.   I was just so scared and anxious when I started this whole thing, I couldn't think straight and make good decisions.   I consulted many doctors frequently.  Ultimately I decided that my symptoms were just WD Normal and not WD symptoms, because they never got better, so I began tapering and have now done 5 successful cuts.  Just like Brassmonkey said, my WD Normal isn't feeling good, but it is a level feeling of crappy LOL  That level of feeling crappy for me has gotten significantly higher than it was when I first started doing this, and I'm certain of it because I can refer to my daily withdrawal checklist by Glenmullen from the last 6 months to check.   

 

I made tons of mistakes, and I'm sure I will make lots more.  One thing I did right, however, was spend weekends reading this site and the various guides.  I think I've read all of them a dozen times and I still find something new everytime I read them again.   

 

I found my way after a year of being lost, you'll find your way too!

[sandnit]

Thank you so much j290 for taking the time to reply! much appreciated!

 

Indeed it is good to read up on these guidelines. My understanding was that the waves should have stopped before starting my taper again, but after reading Brassmonkey's Tips and Tricks for Withdrawal: again i think this is not the case:

Quote

I see WDnormal as the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

 

So an average between windows and waves. I did not track my symptoms the last couple of months like you did but i did rate every day with a number between 1 and 10 using an app on my phone.  The days between the waves i have more or less rated the same. Could mean WDnormal ........But the time between the waves is increasing..... could mean i'm still stabilizing?? 

 

It has been 3,5 months since my last taper (i tapered way to fast before that) and I think i'm going to wait for two months before i start my taper again ......... this time i'm going to take it really slow:)

Did you track your symptoms daily? 

 

 

[j1290]

11 hours ago, sandnit said:

But the time between the waves is increasing..... could mean i'm still stabilizing?? 

I'm not really qualified to give advice, I just share my experience.  Personally, I read other people's stories and the guides, compare that to my history and life situation, and make the best decision I can.  I take all of it as a recommendation not a rule.  In my opinion, tapering off these drugs is really tricky, and I haven't seen anybody yet who does it perfectly.  My best guide has been my personal experience, and that was earned through trying different things and seeing what worked.   I use the daily checklist because otherwise I'd never remember if I was having head pressure on day 23 of Taper #2, or if I felt dizzy or something like that.  The extra notes I jot down have helped me immensely to wrap my head around what normal symptoms are, what improvement looks like, what's WD normal, all that stuff.  

 

I hear you about wanting to go really slow.  After I spent an extended period of time unstable, I was extra cautious.  I've made tons of mistakes, but it's all been worth it!

[sandnit]

Hi J1290,

 

Thanks again for you reply. 

 

@Altostrata, I do not like to tag someone and I am sorry to bother you but no moderator is following my intro page, would you be able/ willing to give some advice? Or maybe an other moderator can help?

 

The last month I was in a pretty good place and I felt really optimistic that I had stabilised but last week this big wave hit and a lots of symptoms are back with vengeance. In a wave I always feel so lost an in need for advice/ reassurance.

 

It has been 3,5 months since my last taper to 5mg. I tapered way way to fast from 20mg. The days between waves are ok but when I look back I had some symptoms come and go during these days. The time between the waves seems to be increasing. Well at least the time between the last 2 waves. 

 

I'm in between thoughts. One says to start my taper again. Something that causes these kind of symptoms cannot be good and I need to start my taper. This thought appears mainly during a wave I have to say 

 

The other thought is that did not reach WDnormal yet and need to wait before a couple of months before starting the taper again. 

 

As said, I'm a little bit lost right now and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[Nicolas45140]

Hello sandnit !! 
i am exactly in same position as you. I was fine and happy to reduce my poison and since last week, as I reduced from 3mg to 2,9mg… I started to have lots of symptoms. Headache, head tension/pressure, dizziness, lack of motivation for sport or work and very poor sleep waking up a 2am with night anxiety and thinking all night of going back to a higher dose. That I will be always sick, etc… 

i just had my apointment with my psy and first of all, I go back to last dose where i was fine, I will take a benzo for 2 days to relieve stress and anxiety for the week end. If It’s not ok by the end of next week I will go back to 4 or 5mg where i was fine. And stay there for 6 months or a year. 

tapering isn’t a race… if it takes years it will. 
Everybody heal and we will !!!! It just take some time more than others. 
‘take care friend !! 

[Heath]

@sandnit

nicolos45140 has given you a lot of good information. 
 

It looks like you have external things at play here that may have influenced the wave. Work stress and sons procedure. 
Im in a little wave myself atm from external stress. 

 

It’s good you are doing the brass monkey slide. Also keep in mind there is no hard rule (except no more than 10% month) other than that it’s listening to you body . I do bm slide And I listen to my body . 
 

as Nicolas said we are all different. If I am in a wave , can’t sleep , anxiety, can’t work I will not taper. But that’s just me. I would suggest not to taper when destabilized in a wave. Ask yourself are you having windows since holding ? , Am I struggling at work? , If I am struggling now will I be able to perform my life duties worse than I am now? Because if you taper in a wave it is possible to get worse. 
 

If I was in your shoes I would keep holding , if drug is not a threat to you then safest bet is to hold in a wave. 
I’ve been holding 6 months and will continue till I’m ready. 
 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/4244-stabilizing-what-does-that-mean-how-long-does-it-take-after-reinstating-or-updosing/

there is some good info here on when to or not to taper and life situations. 
 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1008-before-you-begin-tapering-what-you-need-to-know/#comment-243796

I am no moderator or dr or counselor 
These are just my experiences. 

[sandnit]

@Heath, I'm grateful for your reply!

@Nicolas45140, also for your reply!

 

Yeah I hear you. When in a wave everything is harder. I also wake up really early and can't get back to sleep. Anxiety is high and have this ever present feeling of blaaah in my head. Hard to explain, also have this weird head pressure and extreme tinnitus.  I still can do some work but I can't handle a busy office. I have the privilege that I can work from home thank god but even then concentrating on something is hard. 

When in a wave I have this strong urge to do something about the way I am feeling. I start thinking about tapering early etc. I think is better not to make important decisions during a wave.  Although I must say i'm getting better in accepting and riding out the wave or maybe the waves get easier to ride .....

 

I will hold longer to start my taper. I also think spring or summer are better to start a taper ( it is winter over here now). Looking back in my intro page Getofflex also mentioned to hold 6 to even 9 months to give the body time to stabilise.

 

 I hope this wave does not take to long.

@Heath, how long do your waves tend to last? Or is every wave different for you. Mine tend to last at least 2 weeks. Sometimes longer. 

 

Thanks again for the help and all the best. Take care!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Heath]

@sandnit yep me too! The bosses were gone for 2 weeks during Christmas and new years , left me with all the younger techs so now I am in a little wave . It’s good for me to be busy but too much pressure is not good. 
 

As my experience grows with this I get better at paying attention to my body and catching the wave so yes it’s getting to a general 2 or 3 weeks for a wave. But it may be entirely different the next taper?? I’m learning every day. 

And with all that said if I can continuously be disciplined enough to take care of myself and not let myself get caught up in life🤷‍♂️. Say no when I need to. 
 

There is no way to tell how long. We just learn how to let it be, it’s there keep going. Have faith and know it’s only temporary. I ve learned Distraction is the greatest thing to do in this wd journey. Yes sometimes it’s hard. 
 

It’s winter here too

I found another walking trail with lights in the city for early evenings. I like Summer it is easier to hike in woods. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Heath