sandnit: escitalopram tapering - I think have withdrawal

[littlebird]

16 hours ago, sandnit said:

Anxiety is high and have this ever present feeling of blaaah in my head. Hard to explain, also have this weird head pressure and extreme tinnitus.  I still can do some work but I can't handle a busy office. I have the privilege that I can work from home thank god but even then concentrating on something is hard. 

When in a wave I have this strong urge to do something about the way I am feeling. I start thinking about tapering early etc. I think is better not to make important decisions during a wave.

Right there with you!! That’s a good idea, to not do things during a wave. Someone once had the advice that if something felt urgent, and I wasn’t sure why, examine that. I wonder if that odd urgency is me trying to ride a wave! I was also thinking about early tapering, in an anxiety wave. Slow and steady is the better plan! I’m going to remember what you said about not making important decisions during a wave, thank you.

[sandnit]

5 hours ago, Heath said:

There is no way to tell how long. We just learn how to let it be, it’s there keep going. Have faith and know it’s only temporary. I ve learned Distraction is the greatest thing to do in this wd journey. Yes sometimes it’s hard. 

@Heath, i hear you. The waves are hard indeed! The time in between the waves is ok for me. I still have a hard time pacing myself in between waves and also during a wave i guess but i'm learning every time .

Walking is a big help for me to. I try hike every day even though it is winter. 

[sandnit]

@Heath, I hope you are doing ok!

 

Question, besides self care and distraction is there anything else you do during a wave to make it easier? 

 

When I'm in a wave it feels so permanent like it is not going to end. Rationally I know it will but when in a wave it is sometimes hard to believe. 

 

I guess there is not allot I can do other than self care, distraction, acceptance and patience. The wave will end when it ends..... 

It is just so frustrating sometimes !

 

 

[Nicolas45140]

Hello to you, 

Unfortunately, except similar symptoms, wave and windows, and big lines of the weaning off process, each human is different. We can't predict how long the wave gonna last. Its only you who can make yourself better. 

The only thing that really helped me during the last wave, CUT all member profile of different facebook site, reading all kind of differents sad stories. I only Kept SA and I go to the success stories and the topics that concern my problems only.  

I know when we are not well, we spend too much time reading stuff and thats really not good. That's makes you so panicking and thinking. CUT IT ALL !!!

Its very frustrating. COURAGE friend !!! 

[sandnit]

@Nicolas45140, thanks for the reply my friend! Yes that is good advice! 

I sometimes forget waves are part of the healing process and are actually a positive thing..... Although they do not feel positive haha

[Heath]

17 hours ago, sandnit said:

@Heath, I hope you are doing ok!

 

Question, besides self care and distraction is there anything else you do during a wave to make it easier? 

 

When I'm in a wave it feels so permanent like it is not going to end. Rationally I know it will but when in a wave it is sometimes hard to believe. 

 

I guess there is not allot I can do other than self care, distraction, acceptance and patience. The wave will end when it ends..... 

It is just so frustrating sometimes !

 

 

thanks ! Yep I am doing good other than Covid. I started having symptoms Tuesday. Thankful for Tylenol, ceiling fan, blankets and our children. 
 

One self help I do is stimulate vagus nerve. Sometimes I’m not disciplined to continue to do it if I’m not motivated n a wave. But it does help me. Cold showers etc. 

 

one time I had a panic anxiety couldn’t stop pacing and negative thoughts . My daughter fixed a big bowl of ice and water. Slushy. Stuck my face in it. Then for a 30 minute walk. I was 90% better. It stopped the panic and negative thoughts. Cold showers help too. 
 

Read about it. It may be something that can help you. I’m not a dr or promoter. Just something that helped when I needed it. 

[sandnit]

5 hours ago, Heath said:

Yep I am doing good other than Covid. I started having symptoms Tuesday. Thankful for Tylenol, ceiling fan, blankets and our children. 

I hope you get well soon without to much symptoms!  I had it twice, second time i didn't feel so bad.

 

5 hours ago, Heath said:

One self help I do is stimulate vagus nerve

Thanks, that is also good advice especially when anxious. I must say that in this wave i do not feel to anxious and feel more calm compared to the last wave. I do have this weird feeling of pressure in my head and have much more anhedonia. I just feel bllaaahh if you know what i mean. 

 

I hope this wave does not last to long...... pffff

 

 

 

[Nicolas45140]

5 minutes ago, sandnit said:

do have this weird feeling of pressure in my head and have much more anhedonia

Hey 

same here… I do not feel too anxious but the « pain » on the top of my head, strange feeling, a diffuse feeling not painful but very annoying…. Thats make me feel worried 

[sandnit]

@Nicolas45140 Yeah i read a lot about weird head feelings either due to WD or side effect of Lex. I guess it is part of the healing journey. 

[Nicolas45140]

30 minutes ago, sandnit said:

@Nicolas45140 Yeah i read a lot about weird head feelings either due to WD or side effect of Lex. I guess it is part of the healing journey. 

I have my appointment with mark Horowitz tonight. I will ask him about this head feeling. 
 

[sandnit]

33 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

I have my appointment with mark Horowitz tonight. I will ask him about this head feeling. 

@Nicolas45140, please let me know what he says about this. I'm very interested

[sandnit]

@Nicolas45140, do you meet with him online?

[Nicolas45140]

5 minutes ago, sandnit said:

@Nicolas45140, do you meet with him online?

Yes. I do visio with him but not regularly as it isn’t taken in charged by my health company.

 

[sandnit]

3 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

Yes. I do visio with him but not regularly as it isn’t taken in charged by my health company.

 

Ah good for you, he seems like an expert with lots of knowledge 

[sandnit]

Pffff today is a though day. I was hoping the wave would subside by now. On the contrary it is still there with vengeance. It feels so permanent arrrg.  I know it will subside but I still worry about it.

 

I was wondering, the last days and during my last wave i sometimes have these electric shock sensation in my body mostly in my back and abdomen. It only occurs when I'm sitting.  I read about the brain zaps but I don't really feel them in my head. Not sure it is the same thing but it is probably WD related. Anyone familiar with this or read about this?

[sandnit]

The last 1,5 months I was in a pretty good place and I felt really optimistic that I had stabilised but 2 weeks ago this big wave hit and a lots of symptoms are back with vengeance. This wave feels different from the last wave though. 

 

It has been 3,5 months since my last taper to 5mg. I tapered way way to fast from 20mg. The days between waves are ok but when I look back I had some symptoms come and go during these days. The time between the waves seems to be increasing. Well at least the time between the last 2 waves. 

 

I'm in between thoughts. One says to start my taper again. Something that causes these kind of symptoms cannot be good and I need to start my taper. This thought appears mainly during a wave I have to say 

 

The other thought is that did not reach WDnormal yet and need to wait before a couple of months before starting the taper again. 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated 

[sandnit]

On 1/26/2023 at 3:09 AM, Heath said:

! Yep I am doing good other than Covid

@Heath, how are you doing? Hope COVID isn't to bad for you? 

 

I have a question, I'm still in the wave and this one is really though and relentless. It's been 2 weeks now and there are no signs of let up yet. And anxiety joined the game as well:( Although the GI issues seem to be doing better. 

 

Did you experience longer waves compared to other ones? 

 

It is probably the wave talking but it has me worried..... Compared to the last waves it should be letting up by now.

 

Maybe there is a bigger healing process going on and my body needs longer.... I don't know, I'm hoping for some let up soon.

 

 

[Nicolas45140]

Hello sandnit, 

Waves are unpredictable. could be short or long..... everyone is different, thats the problem. 

Be strong. all the best to you. Nick

[sandnit]

19 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

Waves are unpredictable

Thanks for the message Nick!  You are right, they are unpredictable. 

 

I'll be strong 

[Nicolas45140]

4 minutes ago, sandnit said:

Thanks for the message Nick!  You are right, they are unpredictable. 

 

I'll be strong 

We are all in the same boat ! I nearly cried saying to myself that I was going to going back on normal doses…

but NO !! The med should not win this battle 

my symptoms are just a pain all day !! 

[sandnit]

5 minutes ago, Nicolas45140 said:

The med should not win this battle 

You are right Nick. Be strong, you got this. In time things will get better 

[getofflex]

On 1/29/2023 at 1:55 AM, sandnit said:

The last 1,5 months I was in a pretty good place and I felt really optimistic that I had stabilised but 2 weeks ago this big wave hit and a lots of symptoms are back with vengeance. This wave feels different from the last wave though. 

 

It has been 3,5 months since my last taper to 5mg. I tapered way way to fast from 20mg. The days between waves are ok but when I look back I had some symptoms come and go during these days. The time between the waves seems to be increasing. Well at least the time between the last 2 waves. 

 

I'm in between thoughts. One says to start my taper again. Something that causes these kind of symptoms cannot be good and I need to start my taper. This thought appears mainly during a wave I have to say 

 

The other thought is that did not reach WDnormal yet and need to wait before a couple of months before starting the taper again. 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated 

Hello, please do not start new threads.  Please keep all questions about your personal situation is this one thread to avoid confusion and duplication of effort - thank you.  

 

When our nervous system are sensitized, which most of ours are, many things can put us in a wave.  These include drinking alcohol, using mind altering substances, adding or dropping other drugs or supplements, major change in our routines, changes in weather, additional stress in home/work/school, major changes in diet, traveling, etc.  Does any of this apply?  

 

I personally believe that your system would benefit from continuing to hold on the current 5 mg dose of escitalopram.  This drug is extremely powerful.  All SSRI'S are powerful, and this one is 2-4 times more powerful than the others.  I don't believe it's necessarily the drug itself causing this wave, as it is the sensitization caused by tapering too fast in the past.  That is what happened to me.  

 

In the meantime, please work on non drug coping techniques to help you through this wave.  Learning these skills will benefit you greatly in the future with other types of life situation.  

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

Edited January 30, 2023 by getofflex

[getofflex]

When you are in a wave, reading this link can really help: 

 

Steps for Managing WD Symptoms

[sandnit]

6 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Does any of this apply?  

Thank you so much for reply Getofflex. Well some work stress and my son had an operation and he was waking up a lot at night the week after. But I think the wave already started by than. Maybe this fueled it ? 

 

Will it always be this sensitive or can this heal with time ? 

 

13 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I personally believe that your system would benefit from continuing to hold on the current 5 mg

Yes I think you are right. I will hold for a couple of months and monitor the progress.

 

22 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I don't believe it's necessarily the drug itself causing this wave, as it is the sensitization caused by tapering too fast in the past

Ah ok, this makes sense. It feels like there is construction work going on in my head:) like the metafoor.

 

I'll keep on working with the coping techniques.

 

Thanks again and all the best Getofflex

 

[Nicolas45140]

40 minutes ago, getofflex said:

When you are in a wave, reading this link can really help: 

 

Steps for Managing WD Symptoms

Hello getofflex, Seems you switched paxil to lexapro too.... I would be pleased to exchange with you as the matter of why am I still struggling after a year I switched Paxil 20mg to lexapro 5mg. I hope to cross you on my thread. talk soon. thanks. 

[getofflex]

@Nicolas45140I made a direct switch many years ago as prescribed by my doctor.  We don't recommend doing that here.   

 

I looked at your thread and I agree with Shep, continuing to hold for a long time on your current dose is the thing to do.  

Edited January 31, 2023 by getofflex

[getofflex]

18 hours ago, sandnit said:

Well some work stress and my son had an operation and he was waking up a lot at night the week after. But I think the wave already started by than. Maybe this fueled it ? 

Yes, the stress from this is probably contributing to the wave.  

 

18 hours ago, sandnit said:

It feels like there is construction work going on in my head:) like the metafoor.

 

I'll keep on working with the coping techniques.

Yes, your brain is healing and rebuilding itself.  The coping techniques are good to learn.  

[Nicolas45140]

5 minutes ago, getofflex said:

@Nicolas45140I made a direct switch many years ago as prescribed by my doctor.  We don't recommend doing that here.   

 

I looked at your thread and I agree with Shep, continuing to hold for a long time on your current dose is the thing to do.  

Hello. Yes i guess I shouldn’t switched directly but I listened my psy…and wasn’t aware of SA. I guess my actual dosage don’t mask the WD of the Paxil I switched 14months ago as I didn’t have an equivalent dosage from the beginning. 
is it too late to stop withdrawal and as you said keep my current dose…

thanks for taking time to look at my thread. 
nicolas 

[sandnit]

 

Pffff still in the wave, this is the toughest and longest one that hit me so far. I was hoping for some relief by now but it is still hitting me from all sides:

* sleep is bad, lots of vivid dreams

* Last night i woke up drenched in sweat, weird thing is only my legs/ thighs were sweating......

*GI problems where better but are back

* Extreme tinnitus

* Dizzy like feeling. Like standing on a boat. 

* Head pressure and stabbing head pains 

* Body zaps and muscle twitches /electric shock sensation in my body 

* Jaw clenching

* Anxious

* Derealization / like watching a movie / or the feeling it isn't real .... very weird

* Anhedonia /  i do not really feel emotions and i have no motivation whatsoever

 

It is so hard and feels neverending right now but i try to stay positive, work on coping techniques and pray this wave will give me some relieve soon.

 

What i struggle with is how should i pace myself during a wave. I do not want to provoke it any more than necessary if you know what i mean. 

Do i lock myself up in a room with as minimal outside stimulus as possible? Or do i, as much as possible,  get on with my "normal life" with extra self care, acceptance etc?

On 1/31/2023 at 3:18 PM, getofflex said:

Yes, your brain is healing and rebuilding itself.

Or does it even matter? Will the wave only end when the healing/ rebuilding of this part is done? 

I would love to have your opinions on this!

 

Thanks all!

 

[Nicolas45140]

4 minutes ago, sandnit said:

 

Pffff still in the wave, this is the toughest and longest one that hit me so far. I was hoping for some relief by now but it is still hitting me from all sides:

* sleep is bad, lots of vivid dreams

* Last night i woke up drenched in sweat, weird thing is only my legs/ thighs were sweating......

*GI problems where better but are back

* Extreme tinnitus

* Dizzy like feeling. Like standing on a boat. 

* Head pressure and stabbing head pains 

* Body zaps and muscle twitches /electric shock sensation in my body 

* Jaw clenching

* Anxious

* Derealization / like watching a movie / or the feeling it isn't real .... very weird

* Anhedonia /  i do not really feel emotions and i have no motivation whatsoever

 

It is so hard and feels neverending right now but i try to stay positive, work on coping techniques and pray this wave will give me some relieve soon.

 

What i struggle with is how should i pace myself during a wave. I do not want to provoke it any more than necessary if you know what i mean. 

Do i lock myself up in a room with as minimal outside stimulus as possible? Or do i, as much as possible,  get on with my "normal life" with extra self care, acceptance etc?

Or does it even matter? Will the wave only end when the healing/ rebuilding of this part is done? 

I would love to have your opinions on this!

 

Thanks all!

 

Hello sandnit, 

the question would be are you or not In a wave. Maybe it is acute withdrawal symptoms. Waves as I can read don’t last months… 

for myself I think I do have waves and also protracted withdrawal when I am not in waves…. 
since I accepted the symptoms and try to live with it and not fight them… it is more manageable. 
nicolas 

[sandnit]

Hi Nick,

good to hear it is more manageable for you! 

1 hour ago, Nicolas45140 said:

the question would be are you or not In a wave. Maybe it is acute withdrawal symptoms. Waves as I can read don’t last months… 

Well, I think i'm in a wave. I rate my day every day using an app. When i look back before the last wave started (3 weeks ago) i had a good period (around 5 to 6 weeks) of feeling rather good without most of these symptoms. And when i look back further there is a clear up and down pattern. I guess these are waves and windows? Some days in between the waves i also have a hard time, i guess thats also some protracted withdrawal going on? 

I read people been hit with waves that lasted months. Maybe Getofflex can give us her opinion on this?

 

I also this is what brassmoney said to me some time ago: 

On 1/30/2023 at 9:21 PM, brassmonkey said:

Waves are rather unpredictable; each one will be different. Getting hit with a bad wave after several gentle ones is a good sign of healing.

 

  In the end it doesn't matter Nick, acceptance and time is key here!

 

Thanks Buddy

 

[getofflex]

8 hours ago, sandnit said:

What i struggle with is how should i pace myself during a wave. I do not want to provoke it any more than necessary if you know what i mean. 

Do i lock myself up in a room with as minimal outside stimulus as possible? Or do i, as much as possible,  get on with my "normal life" with extra self care, acceptance etc?

I would probably go with something in between these extremes.  When I was in a bad wave, I would do simple physical activities to distract me, and get my mind off how bad I felt - things like sewing, knitting, coloring, basic house and yard work, crafts, etc.  Or, I would go to a coffee shop and read a book, to get out of the house.  

 

8 hours ago, sandnit said:

Will the wave only end when the healing/ rebuilding of this part is done? 

I would love to have your opinions on this!

No, waves and windows tend to come and go as we are healing.  Eventually, all this will go away as we heal and recover.  Unfortunately, some waves can last months.  

 

You are right when you say that acceptance and time are the keys.  Be sure you are avoiding alcohol and other mind altering substances, caffeine, sugar, eating healthy, try to get some low key exercise like walking if you can, avoid negative people and stress, ect.  

[sandnit]

13 hours ago, getofflex said:

would probably go with something in between these extremes.

Thank you Getofflex! I get what you say. Thank god I can mostly work from home and only occasionally need to go to my office. I couldn't handle the office every day during a wave.  I do walks every day and try to avoid stress as much as possible. I have 2 young kids so this is not always possible to avoid busyness or bad sleep. But on the other hand they are my drive to get through this all!! I'm so thankful for them.

 

13 hours ago, getofflex said:

waves and windows tend to come and go as we are healing.  Eventually, all this will go away as we heal and recover.  Unfortunately, some waves can last months.

What I actually meant is there anything I can do to shorten/ influence the wave or is time and acceptance the only way? I guess the latter right? I do not feel any signs that the wave will let up so I guess it is here to stay for a while..... Brassmonkey told me big waves mean good healing so I guess it is positive.

 

One more question in 2016/ 2017. I see you where on Paxil as well. I was prescribed paxil after my mother died and some other stressful stuff. I took it about 3 to 4 months and I decided it wasn't for me. My GP told me I could stop CT so I did. Back then I wasn't aware of SA or any danger of CT for the matter. I just did what my gp told me. I can't remember much but I can remember I had acute withdrawal and just feeling weird and really sick both mentally and physically. And I remember clearly that my GP told me that i was a hypochondriac!! In the years after the CT I would have good periods but also really bad periods often induced by a period of some stress or big life experience but the feeling bad was not in proportion with what was happening. I tried also of things and therapies but this didn't seem to help avoid the bad periods. The good periods seemed to be getting longer tho..... Untill my daughter decided to not sleep in her first 1,5 years haha. This made me try Lexapro. 

 

I never linked this before I read all the story over here, but I guess these where windows and waves?

Before the CT I never experienced this pattern. And could this have sensitised my system?

 

I wish I found SA before I tried Lexapro ..... But I'm grateful I found it now.

 

 

[getofflex]

6 hours ago, sandnit said:

What I actually meant is there anything I can do to shorten/ influence the wave or is time and acceptance the only way?

No, acceptance is the way.  Please read this:  

 

On 9/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, brassmonkey said:

Trusting that your body knows what needs to be done to heal and will do it naturally is one of the hardest parts of doing this. The amount of trust that we have to have is amazing and the ability to accept what happens and move through it, even if it isn't what we had planned, is equally so. We have all been taught to think things  through and do what we think is best, but sometimes our logic gets the best of us. We can think too much and see too many sides of the coin.

 

To me ADWD is proof that nature is in control despite what we think. In most cases we have to get out of the way and let it happen. We may want a specific outcome by next weekend, but the choice isn't ours. If our body wants to heal in that direction by them it may happen, but usually it needs to do something else, which it knows is more important for the healing process. It doesn't really care what our weekend plans are, but rather knows what it needs to do to heal.

 

Giving up that control is very hard because we think about the problem too much.

 

6 hours ago, sandnit said:

I never linked this before I read all the story over here, but I guess these where windows and waves?

Before the CT I never experienced this pattern. And could this have sensitised my system?

Yes, and yes.  

 

Please be assured that there is a way out of this.  It is a difficult journey, but it is only temporary.  

Edited February 4, 2023 by getofflex

[sandnit]

Getofflex, thank you so much. I love this:

17 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Trusting that your body knows what needs to be done to heal and will do it naturally is one of the hardest parts of doing this. The amount of trust that we have to have is amazing and the ability to accept what happens and move through it, even if it isn't what we had planned, is equally so. We have all been taught to think things  through and do what we think is best, but sometimes our logic gets the best of us. We can think too much and see too many sides of the coin.

 

To me ADWD is proof that nature is in control despite what we think. In most cases we have to get out of the way and let it happen. We may want a specific outcome by next weekend, but the choice isn't ours. If our body wants to heal in that direction by them it may happen, but usually it needs to do something else, which it knows is more important for the healing process. It doesn't really care what our weekend plans are, but rather knows what it needs to do to heal.

 

Giving up that control is very hard because we think about the problem too much

 

18 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Please be assured that there is a way out of this.  It is a difficult journey, but it is only temporary.  

The wave I'm in is bad but strangely enough I much more positive lately! 

 

I'm grateful that I found this site and for all your help Getofflex!

 

[sandnit]

Hi all, i hope you are doing ok !!

 

Update:

 

Some days ago i had a short window of only 3 or 4 days but soon another wave hit me hard again. My head feels like it is under pressure and i have the feeling like i'm walking on a boat, anxiety, anhedonia and derealisation is also strong. 

My last window was much longer (almost 5 weeks with some off days). 

 

I know this is not a linear process but it is so hard to accept sometimes. I have the feeling i'm going backwards instead of forwards due to the short window. 

Question Getofflex,  is it not uncommon to have these swings in lengths of windows and waves? I'm still questioning if the drug itself has something to do with it, I never had a stable good time on it and i always had a lot of side effects. Of course i didn't use it for a long period and during this period there was a lot of updosing and tapering going on ..... 

I was hoping to start my taper again soon because i'm afraid the drug is doing damage. Would it be unwise to do a 10% drop and hold for a month to see what happens or i'm i to impatient and is it better to stick with 5mg for a while longer?

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on this Getofflex

 

Thanks !!