sandnit: escitalopram tapering - I think have withdrawal

[sandnit]

4 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

I hope you have managed to find some positives in the last few days. 

 

 

@Doctorsrcrap, i have!! Thank you so much.

 

Best wishes to you! 

[Happy2Heal]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:00 AM, sandnit said:

But it is okay what i'm feeling now😉

yes yes of course it is

you just don't want to get stuck there by putting too much emphasis on feelings that are fleeting things

 

how are you going now?

 

 

 

[sandnit]

5 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

how are you going now?

 

@Happy2Heal, thanks for asking. I'm doing ok. Last couple of days have been a rollercoaster of ups and downs.  I had moments that I felt reasonably ok without much of this weird anxiety and without a reason it would be back. Like somebody is flipping a switch 🤣. Sleep seems to be getting even better slowly. So actually really positive all in all.

 

How are you going?

Best wishes to you!!

 

 

[sandnit]

22 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

you just don't want to get stuck there by putting too much emphasis on feelings that are fleeting things

@Happy2Heal, could you explain what you mean by this? 

[Happy2Heal]

2 hours ago, sandnit said:

@Happy2Heal, could you explain what you mean by this? 

Brassmonkey has a thread about this:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/13492-dealing-with-emotional-spirals/

 

 

while at first that thread may seem to be able anger and escalation of feelings, I'm pretty sure it also addresses any way that we can hold on to a feeling and/or give it more weight than is necessary.

I'm sorry, I'm really tired right now so I can't find the right words but once I've had some rest I'll come back and see if I can find a good example of what I mean- if that thread doesn't do the trick

 

I highly recommend the book Hardwiring Happiness, the theme is similar. 

 

glad to see that things are improving. Quite a rollercoaster ride eh?

and to think as kids many of us thought those ups and downs were fun!

 

 

 

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

Quote

There are a variety of things we commonly experience during ADWD that are very similar to The Emotional Spiral, and can trigger or can contribute to one.  They are so common in our situation that they bear mentioning in their own rights.

 

One common form of Emotional Spiral experienced during ADWD is often referred to as the “Doom Cloud”.  Starting with some neuroemotions of fear that escalate through The Spiral ending not in an explosion, but rather in a deep black depression or dread, that is very difficult to break out of.  This can be a hard one to work with because of the neuroemotional trigger, but it can be minimized with the same techniques.

 

Another one that is very similar to the Doom Cloud is Morning Dread. Waking up with an overpowering feeling of fear.  There is a lot more involved with it due to cortisol cycles, neuroemotions and the like, but the experience frequently acts as a trigger.  This sets off an Emotional Spiral that makes the situation a lot worse than it already is and prevents the dread from running its course and self-resolving over the rest of the morning.  It also sets up a fear response that can trigger insomnia and a self-fulfilling response that increases the likelihood of it happening again the next morning.

 

I mentioned heart palpitations earlier.  These are a very large contributor to panic attacks because they can be a significant symptom during a panic attack.  If they are misperceived, these sensations, which will last only a few seconds, can trigger a panic attack that can last for hours.  So, we’re back to “perceptions”.  Many panic attacks can be stopped dead in their tracks by following the steps outlined above.  It’s all in how you react to the trigger.

 

Akathisia is one of the most dreaded but luckily not one of the most common symptoms people in ADWD can experience.  It is based in the wiring of the nervous system so it has a physical/chemical cause which makes it an actual physical phenomenon.  It can’t be controlled in the same manner as an Emotional Spiral.  But, our reaction to it can.  Combining the techniques above with a healthy dose of mindfulness and living in the moment can greatly reduce the severity of an attack.

 

ADWD and tapering seem to last forever.  We all want our lives back and we all want to feel better.  The Frustration caused by this and many other factors can be overwhelming at times.  This frustration can easily trigger an Emotional Spiral that will manifest in a variety of ways, anger, despondency, loss of hope, depression and more.  All of which are compounded by the Emotional Spiral.  Breaking the Spiral will help to control this frustration.

 

I have given several examples of Emotional Spirals and how they affect us in ADWD.  These are just a few of the many ways they can affect our lives.  By paying attention to situations, triggers and our reactions to them we can greatly reduce the stress we experience, improve our relationships and our overall quality of life.

this is from that thread by BrassMonkey

[sandnit]

10 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I'm sorry, I'm really tired right now so I can't find the right words but once I've had some rest I'll come back and see if I can find a good example of what I mean- if that thread doesn't do the trick

@Happy2Heal, no worries. Get some rest :). I'll check out the link.

 

11 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

Quite a rollercoaster ride eh?

It sure is.... It is such a frustrating proces. I have to watch out not getting caught up in thinking I did something wrong when the roller coaster is heading down again..... It is just the process at work.... Hence healing right?

[Happy2Heal]

1 hour ago, sandnit said:

It sure is.... It is such a frustrating proces. I have to watch out not getting caught up in thinking I did something wrong when the roller coaster is heading down again..... It is just the process at work.... Hence healing right?

oh yes that is the process, ups and downs! but generally over time the downs are not as low and the ups are higher!! and eventually even out so that you're back to normal.

 

yeh a wave is not anyone's fault. I was surprised to hear that you might think that, and immediately wondered if you had a trauma history...? many of us who have such a history will attribute feeling bad to being bad or wrong. that's why I ask

 

but then  I was thinking, when someone is in a wave, we often come and try to help them thru it, but in doing so, I just realized that we often ask, did you do anything differently? any added stress in your life? did you drink or take any new supplements? exercise more or alternatively, not exercise at all. So I can see how members might get the idea that what they do can bring on a wave

and in some instances, it can contribute to one, for sure- drinking alcohol, using illicit drugs, adding new supplements, missing  a dose if you are tapering or tapering too fast, etc etc are all things that can cause a wave or make a wave worse if you're in one

 

but the overall process IS for there to be ups and downs So please don't stress that you did something "wrong"

It might be helpful to see if you did anything differently that might have nudged you into a bad place, but only so that you can avoid it or adjust what you're doing accordingly

 

but more often than not, I believe, a wave is out of our control. The thing we have control over is how we react to it

 

and that is hard enough!! 

I'm going to try to be more mindful of what questions I ask folks who are in a wave, to be sure they understand that they likely didn't do ANYTHING "wrong"  -it's just the healing process

 

 

if you celebrate I hope you have a great holiday!! here's to a New Year full of wide open windows and lots of sunny days!

🌞🌞🌞

Edited December 24, 2023 by Happy2Heal

[sandnit]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

immediately wondered if you had a trauma history...?

@Happy2Heal, well i had EMDR last year for an incident with fire long time ago when i was a kid. But otherwise no.

 

But I think it is mainly when in a wave it seems to suck the confidence out of me and makes me doubt a lot... This one is lasting longer and feels different compared to previous waves doesn't help my confidence either.

 

Perhaps I should turn this around the positive way... Long and different wave = good healing and maybe ever better window after   

 

Its all part off the process!!

 

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

if you celebrate I hope you have a great holiday!! here's to a New Year full of wide open windows and lots of sunny days!

🌞🌞🌞

Thank you so much, yes we do celebrate! I hope and wish the same for you ofcourse 😊😊

 

 

 

 

 

[sandnit]

Update: I'm still in the long wave. Symptoms are sometimes easing/ going/ coming back/ new symptoms pop up..... I have had some short moments of relief.... tricking me into thinking the wave is maybe about to end.... But than it isn't...... It's cruel. 

 

But I am somehow managing and soldiering on. I'm trying to stay positive, distract myself .... Telling myself, this will eventually change. This will end. 

 

But boy, it is hard....

 

Wishing you all happy new year and all the best!!

 

[sandnit]

@Happy2Heal

I hope you dont mind me asking. Today started a DIY project in the house to keep my mind of the long wave I'm still in but also because it needs to be done. 

 

It doesn't take the symptoms and the feeling awful go away but at the end of the day it gives me a content feeling and a better tired feeling of you know what I mean.......

 

The work isn't to physical and I do not get things done at the usual pace but I think it is good for me to do but I'm worried a bit that this could prolong the wave.....

 

Although I worried about everything prolonging the wave haha

 

I know everyone is different but wouldn't mind your take on this

 

 

[sandnit]

First of all I wish everyone a happy new year with lots of big Windows and healing 🎊 

 

I'm still in this rollercoaster wave. Yesterday I had a much better day. Today I woke up feeling worse again....... It is so frustrating and hard to keep the thoughts like "why do I feel worse today, what did I do wrong, is this wave everlasting etc. etc." at bay. 

 

But I have to see this positive...... having a better day is positive, a sign of healing.

 

Just curious and looking for some confirmation......I know everyone is different but is it not uncommon to have a long wave after a long hold and long window? 

 

[Doctorsrcrap]

@sandnit

Have you checked out the site run by baylissa fredrik?

Or maybe read her book? Recovery and renewal 

[sandnit]

3 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

Have you checked out the site run by baylissa fredrik?

Or maybe read her book? Recovery and renewal

@Doctorsrcrap, hi ! I did check out her site some time ago. There is a lot of good information on there. I did not read her book ...yet

[sandnit]

Last couple of days I felt somewhat better. Not as good compared to how i was feeling before the wave. Today was not so good but not as bad as before so the general trend looks upwards. I hope I’ll continue to feel better. And hopefully a good window will open.... So I can finally continue my taper. But I'm still reluctant....  I still have worry thoughts, that this could be the new normal, wave never ending etc etc....... But those are wave thoughts haha This will end:)

 

[sandnit]

Ow man, I thought i was climbing out of the wave...... But today i feel like I'm back to square one. Some symptoms returned in full force. So frustrating. I guess it is all part of the up and down journey?  It is so hard to stay positive. Last couple of days I developed a toothache and I also had a cold but the cold is almost over now. Could this be interfering with recovery from the wave?

 

@Onmyway, is it not uncommon have such a long wave ( almost 2 months now) after a hold of more than a year? I would appreciate a moderators look on this. Thanks!!

 

@Doctorsrcrap, i ordered the Recovery and renewal book. Thanks for the heads up. 

 

@Happy2Heal, I also ordered the book hardwiring happiness

 

This wave is really testing me. Especially the length of it. But I will soldier on. 

 

 

 

[Onmyway]

Hi @sandnit

We are all different and there are all kinds of permutations in terms of these waves.  But we all heal and recover even if slowly and in fits. 

 

Hang in there. 

Omw

[Doctorsrcrap]

I don't think there is any normal. For example I don't get any windows just a permenant wave that changes things up occasionally. But I still like to think that I can heal even if I'm not following the pattern outlined here 

[sandnit]

20 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

are all different and there are all kinds of permutations in terms of these waves.  But we all heal and recover even if slowly and in fits. 

 

@Onmyway, thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it!! Sorry for the rambling but the length of this wave and it feeling different to any other wave I had before is suckin the confidence out of me and making me doubt and worry. 

 

But I guess it is all part of the healing journey. I'll soldier on and hang in there. Hoping this long wave gives me a nice open window eventually.

 

I'm grateful for your work on this site. Thank you. 

[sandnit]

24 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

But I still like to think that I can heal even if I'm not following the pattern outlined here 

@Doctorsrcrap, I think you are right here. I guess there is no pattern healing followes.

 

[Doctorsrcrap]

I just want to check, do you feel better at any particular time of day or is there no pattern 

[sandnit]

11 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

I just want to check, do you feel better at any particular time of day or is there no pattern 

Evenings are generally somewhat easier. But it is a rollercoaster during the day.... I can't see any patterns. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

When do you take the drug 

[sandnit]

Just now, Doctorsrcrap said:

When

After dinner

[Doctorsrcrap]

OK. And that's when things start to feel slightly easier? 

[sandnit]

1 minute ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

OK. And that's when things start to feel slightly easier

Sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. Really hard to say

[Doctorsrcrap]

How's your sleep 

[sandnit]

2 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

How's your sleep 

Not to bad . I generally get 6 hours of slaap. During better days  7 hours

[Doctorsrcrap]

Well it's good that your sleep is good. That's a positive. 

 

I guess it's just going to be holding for longer. 

[sandnit]

16 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

Well it's good that your sleep is good. That's a positive. 

 

I guess it's just going to be holding for longer. 

That sure is positive! 

Yes, i just need to be patient. 

[Tom37]

Try not to worry about the duration of your wave. Easier said than done I know. 
 

Im in a two month wave myself and I’m a lot further out than you. I had been really good for 4 or 5 months but think I pushed myself too much and my nervous system wasn’t strong enough to handle it so now I’m paying for it. 
 

We need to be careful even when feeling good.
 

The positive of a long wave is your body is aware things aren’t as they should be and the symptoms means it’s repairing itself which is a good sign.
 

Hard to go through but the wave will end at some point. My longest was 4 months but I got through it.

 

Once it’s past give yourself some months to assess where you’re at before tapering.

[Onmyway]

@sandnit, you may try taking 500mg of vitamin C or a baby aspirin first thing in the morning (but check if your GP will approve this first - caution if you have bleeding risks!).

 

These daily mood changes may be due to cortisol increase and/or extra sensitivity to it in withdrawal and there is some evidence that cortisol may be lowered by taking aspirin.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19404617/

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955286320304915

 

Omw

PS. This is not part of the SA protocol,  just some research with some promise.

Edited January 7 by Onmyway

[sandnit]

11 hours ago, Tom37 said:

I had been really good for 4 or 5 months

@Tom37, thanks so much for your message. I really appreciate it!

I had been really good for at least 3 months before the wave started to.

 

During this wave a had several times that i started to feel better for a bit and i thought that the wave might be ending but than it continued in full force. It feels so frustrating. Did this happen to you too? 

 

11 hours ago, Tom37 said:

The positive of a long wave is your body is aware things aren’t as they should be and the symptoms means it’s repairing itself which is a good sign.

I sometimes forget a wave means healing. This is good to keep in the back of my mind. Helps to accept feeling awful. 

 

11 hours ago, Tom37 said:

Hard to go through but the wave will end at some point. My longest was 4 months but I got through it.

Yes it is really hard indeed, it sucks the conference out of me haha. I hope out waves end soon. We will get through them! 

 

Thanks again Tom!

 

 

[sandnit]

6 hours ago, Onmyway said:

you may try taking 500mg of vitamin C or a baby aspirin first thing in the morning (but check if your GP will approve this first - caution if you have bleeding risks!).

@Onmyway, thank you for the suggestion. I really appreciate it! I took some vitamin C this morning. Should i feel a change right away or after a longer period? I'm a little bit reluctant taking aspirin at the moment. Not that I have bleeding risk but I do not want to agitate things. I read somewhere that people in WD could not tolerate aspirin.

 

In my 3 month window before the wave I felt so much better without big swings. 

 

 

 

[Tom37]

Yes in this current wave I have had a couple of periods where thought it was about to end but then it’s carried on with symptoms changing. The changing symptoms is common.
 

I can’t remember if that happened in my other long wave.

 

 

[sandnit]

20 minutes ago, Tom37 said:

Yes in this current wave I have had a couple of periods where thought it was about to end but then it’s carried on with symptoms changing. The changing symptoms is common.
 

I can’t remember if that happened in my other long wave

@Tom37, thanks for your reply, the changing symptoms i also have indeed.

Good to know it is common.

 

Ih ope your wave leaves you soon