Neuroemotions

[MissSerene]

 

Hi there,

 

Some of you may know that RxISK has added a section focused on understanding protracted withdrawal - the intent is to discuss the possible biological mechanisms of withdrawal and devise theories of what may be wrong in the brain.  

 

There is a discussion forum here and I have added the comment below. I would encourage anyone with their thoughts about what is causing this to help provide information in understanding the complexity of withdrawal to add their thoughts. Note: it's not a forum for coping strategies, that's more the role of this message board. Rather it's goal is to focus on what is causing this in the brain. 

. I especially experience this whenever I think of something in the future that I have to remember to do – regardless of how insignificant the task. I suddenly feel like shrinking into a ball and conceding that I am unable to do this basic chore. However, re-running the thought after that reaction usually produces a less intense response. And it almost never prevents me from doing whatever task it was. As the sympathetic nervous system regulates the fight/flight response – our immediate responses to threats in our environment – the symptom must be associated with the biology of that part of our nervous system.

I believe the sympathetic nervous system has, in its natural state, “chemical sentries” that tamp down responses to non threatening changes in the environment – that enable us to distinguish between actual menace and benign change. Whatever chemical apparatus is involved with that defense mechanism is seriously jeopardized by what ever disregulation is occurring in withdrawal.

 

 

here is my theory for why this occurs. i saved this post on my email until I had time to sit down and reply. I have noticed this as well.

my frontal cortex, that normally handles such tasks as paying bills and related things, is damaged, CBI, from psych meds.

as a dancer and as a mom, I know that when the frontal cortex is not up for the work assigned to it, I fall back into a more primitive part of my brain that is motion oriented and is capable of incredible physical feats without sustenance. this is the part of us that evolved in the jungle. it is very powerful and is capable of pushing us through emergency situations, which in effect are created artificially by having to operate with a diminished frontal cortex, so to speak. I may not be using the correct terminology but I think you get my drift. anyway, this action then compensated for my the more primitive brain comes at a cost. the cost is the amped up adrenaline. so then we are having these extreme adrenaline reactions to simple tasks like paying a bill, or making a mental note to make that phone call or answer that email or whatever. our nervous system is out of balance and over-exhausted. it just takes time to balance out.

 

 

Thank you for this post....it is so comforting on a day of struggle with all of the above. It's great not to feel alone.

[anonymous4317]

For many reasons, our emotions are on a hair-trigger, amplified, and perseverative. We probably don't even know all of what's going on physically yet, but it includes diminished prefrontal lobe executive functions, rebound amygdala, dysregulated HPA, over-active adrenals, etc. The neuro-emotions include -- neuro-fear neuro-anger neuro-guilt neuro-shame neuro-hurt neuro-regret neuro-self-criticism neuro-grudge-holding ...and more! It is very, very confusing to have these intense neuro-emotions and try to remember that they are not what they appear to be. Emotions are compelling. Emotions during recovery from psych meds are even more compelling. Sometimes, the neuro-emotion is really totally artificial. Some of my neuro-fears have been so unlikely to come to pass as to bear no resemblance to reality or to my personal history. But, I think a lot of the time, part of what makes it so confusing is that there is a grain of reality to the neuro-emotion. For example, some situation might make you a bit angry under normal circumstances, but the neuro-anger is huge. This is when it's very difficult to 1) catch it in the first place and notice this is a neuro-emotion, 2) convince ourselves, yes, this is really a neuro-emotion, not a real emotion, 3) contain the emotion, try not to act on it, or channel the energy into something safe and constructive -- like exercise or journaling or building a birdhouse. Whenever you're having an intense, disturbing feeling, try to remind yourself that, right now -- even if it does have something to do with reality -- it is largely a neuro-emotion that you wouldn't be feeling if you were fully healed. And you *will* be fully healed. It's happening! Get ready!

 

Thank you for this thread. Neuro emotions are what still bother me after two years. Sometimes they can consume all of my thoughts for weeks without any warning. I never knew what to call it. The intensity led me to learn more about WD, as the other symptoms are mostly gone.

 

For quite a while in withdrawal, neuro-emotion led me to memories where I embarrassed myself, made a fool or myself, or was rejected. I couldn't shake them, I was reliving them intensely over and over. The feeling of shame and worthlessness was awful. I had to make a determined effort, which wasn't always successful, to distract myself from these memories. I kept reminding myself to forgive myself for my mistakes. Then reliving these memories went away. I'm not having this problem anymore (I hope). I presume that some area of my brain was being stimulated by dysregulated neuro-hormones, and now it's recovered.

 

This has been happening in my 2nd year of WD. Some memories are from childhood. It really is like reliving my childhood, except by filtering out all the positive memories.

[Prohealer]

This rings so true to me. Most of the time I'm pretty much living in constant state of fear and worry. I worry now about symptoms that iv'e had for years and didn't worry too much about when they first appeared. The other day I also started feeling intensely upset about when i used to get bullied at school. That hasn't crossed my mind in years.

[FightingForHope]

This is all so familiar; I get intensely upset and beat myself up over things past (memories come and seem very vivid), present, and future. I rehash, analyze, and worry about EVERYTHING it seems ... In my endless arsenal of self torture (which is what this whole process has felt like) I feel obliterating fear, regret, shame, and worthlessness. It's very hard to forgive myself or give myself a break. When I manage not to beat myself up, I feel anger and endless, begrudging weariness. I keep having to remind myself that most of this is wd related ... I can become so puzzled by why I even care about some of the things I get upset over. It's good to hear it goes away at some point. I think I at least have gotten better at distracting myself ...

 

Sometimes I think I am re-running through all the emotions in the vocabulary, mostly the negative ones, and feeling them too intensely.

 

I tend to think this is by far the worst manifestation of the WD for me.

[Help777]

This is all so familiar; I get intensely upset and beat myself up over things past (memories come and seem very vivid), present, and future. I rehash, analyze, and worry about EVERYTHING it seems ... In my endless arsenal of self torture (which is what this whole process has felt like) I feel obliterating fear, regret, shame, and worthlessness. It's very hard to forgive myself or give myself a break. When I manage not to beat myself up, I feel anger and endless, begrudging weariness. I keep having to remind myself that most of this is wd related ... I can become so puzzled by why I even care about some of the things I get upset over. It's good to hear it goes away at some point. I think I at least have gotten better at distracting myself ...

 

Sometimes I think I am re-running through all the emotions in the vocabulary, mostly the negative ones, and feeling them too intensely.

 

I tend to think this is by far the worst manifestation of the WD for me.

This describes my experience to a t!! Please tell me how it is getting over time...i see your last dose was december? I did an 8 month taper, off effexor as of last week and now tapering the prozac. I think one of my triggers for this cascade of self torturous thinking is over stimulation. Even going to costco or chatting with more than one neighbour can do me in it seems. Can anyone relate to this overstim trigger? Fighting for hope, would love to hear about progress you have seen since your wd. Thank you.

[FightingForHope]

 

This is all so familiar; I get intensely upset and beat myself up over things past (memories come and seem very vivid), present, and future. I rehash, analyze, and worry about EVERYTHING it seems ... In my endless arsenal of self torture (which is what this whole process has felt like) I feel obliterating fear, regret, shame, and worthlessness. It's very hard to forgive myself or give myself a break. When I manage not to beat myself up, I feel anger and endless, begrudging weariness. I keep having to remind myself that most of this is wd related ... I can become so puzzled by why I even care about some of the things I get upset over. It's good to hear it goes away at some point. I think I at least have gotten better at distracting myself ...

 

Sometimes I think I am re-running through all the emotions in the vocabulary, mostly the negative ones, and feeling them too intensely.

 

I tend to think this is by far the worst manifestation of the WD for me.

This describes my experience to a t!! Please tell me how it is getting over time...i see your last dose was december? I did an 8 month taper, off effexor as of last week and now tapering the prozac. I think one of my triggers for this cascade of self torturous thinking is over stimulation. Even going to costco or chatting with more than one neighbour can do me in it seems. Can anyone relate to this overstim trigger? Fighting for hope, would love to hear about progress you have seen since your wd. Thank you.

 

 

Hi Help 777,

It's funny I think of the phrase "describes me to a T" when I read so many of the accounts on this site

Oh yes, I can *absolutely* relate to the over stimulation triggers; going to the supermarket can be a daunting experience, I would come out of there a rattled mess (I read someone calling it "baby brain" which seemed pretty accurate), so much so that I stopped, and would avoid doing anything outdoors if I could in any way possibly avoid it. It is better now, but I can still get amped up and confused if I overdo it ... and by that I mean that at times I feel a bit better and I try to behave and do things that I would normally do but have cut back on since I started withdrawing - like going to get my hair done or go to lunch with my boyfriend. Sometimes I come out of these things still reactive, messy headed and exhausted. Sometimes though, if I take it very easy, keep in mind I am recovering, I actually manage pretty well, and even though I over analyze and worry, all in all it was better. And I find I am better able to stop beating myself up during these times too. This has only happened a handful of times this past month, but as everyone tells us, and it is true, it does get better. Still have to remind myself though! :-P   I do play it safe, since fear (as much as I hate how weak this has made me)  is pretty intense too. I go to familiar places and stick to interacting mainly if not only with people I trust. This has taken a toll at work and in other areas, I know I'm missing out on a lot, but I can't think about that too much. I tell myself time heals everything in the end. Yes my last dose was December. The mid to last months of the taper to the first three of being med free were the worst. I think October to February maybe were really excruciating for me. I was a sleep deprived, tortured, shaking shell. But I look back now and see how much better I am, even when I get weepy and frustrated and impatient. In truth I can now manage to do more, I have started sleeping more, last weekend I had a pretty good couple of days, going to get my car fixed, getting my hair done, watching and enjoying an old movie, and reading a book! all on my own ... I felt almost normal, it was great. Then life and work reared their stressful ugly heads and I had another rough week, mainly anger and insomnia, but I guess that's how it progresses, in fits and starts. This weekend the self brow beating started again, but I slept 8 hours two nights in a row ... yey! These small steps forward have been happening, the only way I have known how is to bear through the work days and the things I can't avoid as best as I can, follow the advice of the more experienced members on this site, and try to take it as easy as possible. I try to walk. I did some yoga last week. Relaxing or mindfulness Youtube videos, ASMR videos help me too.

Another amazing site you could check out is James Heaney's blog: https://npanth.wordpress.com/  he is no longer active but was here in the past as well, and writes about SSRI WD very well, you may find it helpful too.

I put a little mantra on a sticky on my desktop to remind me:

 

Low stress, good nutrition, as much sleep and gentle exercise as possible are key.

~ omega 3 fatty acids

~ anti rumination strategies

~ light exposure

~ social support

 

I think the first line is from a member here? The last list from Dr Ilardi's advice on dealing with depression.

 

I definitely do not manage to stick to any plan or list very well at all, but a little helps anyway. For whatever it's worth, I hope this helps you too

[Help777]

Fighting for hope,

Your reply helped more than you know. I just want to be validated and not feel so alone and I guess it's an unfair expectation to think that close fam and friends can understand. Thankfully my husband does and is my rock throughout all if this.

I feel less alone reading your reply. Hearing your experience expressed so eloquently was like therapy for me and gives me hope. The first few lines of your stickie are the exact lines I have on mine!! I do believe it was Alto from this forum that posted that.

Continue to hope, it is clearly helping you get past this.

Thanks again for your reply.

[FightingForHope]

Help777,

 

I'm so glad!! That's helpful for me to hear too. It's a great feeling to find that we are not alone in this 'artificial madness' ... family and friends don't, and can't, really understand; how could they. I have ruined such relationships in the past, when even I barely understood what was going on with me. It can be a lonely, scary, and hard as hell road back to health, which is why this is such an amazing space.

 

Yes, I think you a right it is a line from Alto's excellent posts!   

 

Wishing all the best for you, and all of us!

[daveycrocket]

I'm extremely thankful for this thread. It's helpful to read others experiences and know that I'm not alone. The most challenging neuro-emotion is a sense of panic and urge to "go home to my family" and immediately abandoned my life. This urge has already unraveled many plans that I've made and has been quite unsettling and destabilizing. It's outrageous because it isn't like my family's home is peaceful -- and as soon as I give into the emotion and fly home, I'm filled with regret and sink into a horrible depressive state. I'm trying to at least commit to DOING NOTHING when I'm in a panic, instead of buying plane tickets or acting on the anxiety. It is not easy. The emotion or anxiety gives off an almost controllable urge to hit the panic button.

[geminigirl]

Does anybody know how long it takes to recover the exectutive function prefrontal cortex, amygdala and HPA of the brain that alto was talking about?

 

I believe I am having this issue too, the impaired "wise mind" part of my brain and extra sensitivity to situations, people, emotions, that would normally trigger me but its worse now.

 

I just want to know of people's experiences of how long it takes to recover from that?

 

Thanks and best,

 

Yana

[geminigirl]

I believe I had this for very long too, like daveyrocket was saying.

 

I dunno if the drugs damaged by prefrontal cortex and executive function or if it's just a WD syndrome, I dunno.

[RubyTuesday]

I am sure there is a wide range of individual difference in how long it takes to recover and there are many other factors involved, however I can comment that I am 3 months out today from all daily psych meds (after 14 years total)  and I can see a definite beginning to recovering my former prefrontal cortex capacities. not that I don't expect relapses, I do. I have been convinced all along that certain things can help the brain recover faster. do some google searches on neuroplasticity and brain repair. for me acupuncture helps a lot. so does trying to learn new things. I have also read that doing things with your non dominant hand assists in brain repair. and, for me, higher levels of physical activity combined with mental concentration help with the cortisol surges, so it is good that I am back in ballet class.

 

I believe the brain is just like the body, recovery from injury requires patience and sustained repetitive action, starting slow and careful and gradually working up to higher levels.

[anonymous4317]

This rings so true to me. Most of the time I'm pretty much living in constant state of fear and worry. I worry now about symptoms that iv'e had for years and didn't worry too much about when they first appeared. The other day I also started feeling intensely upset about when i used to get bullied at school. That hasn't crossed my mind in years.

 

It's hard for me to notice sometimes, but right now if I look back a year, I realize that the intensity and amplifying of some of these emotions actually has subsided quite a bit. It just doesn't seem that way on a day to day basis. 

[elbee]

DaveyCrocket, I totally relate to the incredible urge to hit the panic button (act out of panic) when my anxiety is pounding on me. I think the "do nothing" (at least not make major decisions) is a guideline for myself I'm trying to pay more attention to.

 

Fighting for hope, thanks for your share. A lot of that rings true for me. I get stuck in front of the bananas at the grocery because I can't decide on the "correct" variety of greenness / yellowness to get to have ready to eat bananas over a several day period!

[FightingForHope]

geminigirl, I'm not sure how long it takes, but this whole past month I made a lot of progress, almost thinking I was back to normal, when in reality I realize I am not 100%, at all. Still, the progress I've made is pretty good. July 11 will mark 7 months from the day I ended my taper and became Paxil free. For complete cessation of Clonazepam a bit less, as I was still taking an occasional tiny dose up until about 3 months ago - fully free since then. I am coming back, the good and the bad, but I still suffer insecurity, anxiety, depression and panicked thoughts; fear of judgement, anger and the insomnia too. Just less ... I've also become used to it to an extent though, so that scares me a bit, because I need to move on with my life, yet realize perhaps I can't trust my judgement yet ...?

Elbee, haha! I sometimes avoid deciding and just go with what seems easiest :-/ which is not OK with major life decisions though; which I am struggling with right now. I don't know how much the WD is affecting this, but I have come to detest my job, and coworkers, and am thinking of leaving my boyfriend. I feel so shaky on my feet, so to speak, even though so many things have improved. I am impatient, and have almost been forgetting what I am recovering from, blaming myself, in my panicked haste. Which is probably also a symptom of WD, as we know; self loathing and massive regrets about my life in general. But I have made tiny progress there too. Sometimes the recovery seems to be taking forever, sometimes it seems to be moving along at a pretty clipped pace. The past month has flown by in a sense. But that's just life I guess. Biggest challenge is trying to stay positive and not hate myself so much. I have stopped doing most of the videos that were helping me, but I tend to constantly seek escape from reality (Netflix series, audiobooks, etc - I can spend hours completely absorbed - good because I can focus, or bad because I am hypnotized?), and I hate being alone - which is terrible because at the same time I find myself alone a lot, because of my depression/anxiety. My functioning is getting better; buy I mourn over so much I have lost in the past year, and in life in general - a sense of a wasted life - ugh. I want to start traveling again this summer, start a family, work on my portfolio again, but so much of me is consumed by ... what, I don't really know sometimes. I am getting older and time has become my worst enemy. Which only adds to the disabling pressure and anxiety. Paralysis by analysis? I guess that's also just life. I suspect I need to be easier on myself and take it easier in general. But I am in my forties, and even though my boyfriend is very sweet, I am in a vulnerable state, and his finances aren't looking great, mine are OK, and I am no closer to having the family I wanted. I blame myself and my choices or perceived failures, and improving the situation seems impossible unless I recover fully; but who knows when that will be? Frustration.

So that's where I am; getting better functionally (going out, confidence is returning, etc), but floundering and ridden with existential angst (which is not new for me - but not sure how much it was potentially med related in the past too); wondering how much of it is me, how much is the WD (or simply the weariness from the past 1+ years), and how much is simply life, which I am handling poorly of late (or always have?)? I feel like the meds put me and kept me in a bit of a dream state, often angry and problematic, but able to escape things and carry on albeit deluded. Again, me or the meds? Confusion. Patience and consistent sleep still seem like a mirage, even if they are better.

Sorry to sound maudlin guys, but if anyone can relate, I'd love to hear it

 

ps - another improvement is my memory; it comes and goes, but I can think about my past with more clarity now.

[FightingForHope]

This is definitely not a linear process    ... ugh.

[zandro]

This all seems all frustrating. It reminds of the "garbage truck" when all the bad memories and failures of your life come back to hunt you and you can't stop them. I wonder if someone has solved their issues that lead to depreseion can't they be controlled in a way? Or it's just the chemicals in the brain and you can't fight them.

[elbee]

Fightingforhope, I identify with a lot of what you say ... needing to move on with my life but not trusting my judgement yet, shaky on my feet, impatience, self esteem / self worth issues, vulnerability, stuck in my head, self blame, grief over sense of loss, dissatisfaction with a many aspects of my life, etc. and of course I ask myself too, is it the meds, is it WD from them, is it underlying issues? And the answer is probably yes to all of them. Zando, maybe that is my response to your question, and I'm not sure that I will ever "solve" my issues that feed my anxiety, panic and depression ... but perhaps I can wear them as scars instead of as wounds, less potent as I have worked (and continue to work) with them?

 

I think the "finding a way to continue to move on (forward)" piece is the biggest challenge, and also completely necessary. What else can I do really but do the best I can to put one foot in front of the next knowing that I will be doing so "imperfectly?" Windows and waves ... I know I experience them pretty dramatically, and at the same time I think it's part of the natural human experience to have ups and downs. I know I need to both cut myself some slack and find the courage to to look at myself with eyes wide open, fully human, and consistently find the next best step. SO hard!

 

Yesterday evening I took a walk in the park and cried because the sunset was so beautiful (a window no doubt). My hope is that through all of this, I can find awe, wonder, beauty and gratitude. Again, so often this is so difficult to do.

[SusyM]

Glad I found this topic. I have always been prone to overthinking and overanalyzing, but lately I have been hit with very intense emotions. They hit me in waves. I can feel fine one minute and then a memory pops into mind, accompanied by very intense negative feelings. I try not to delve to deep into them because they are so out of proportion. They are the exact reason why I went back on paxil in the past...

[zandro]

When I once stopped meds and I got really bad depressing days I had bad thoughts and emotions like if the therapy never worked.

Even though they were intense did you ever get a feeling they were fake or artificial? Like they didn't make sense.

[smo1959]

I'm afraid I'm jumping around all over the forum but I'm finding so much that I can relate to! I'm so grateful to have found this site. Although I often feel like I'm in anxiety hell, I am very grateful that I am beginning to feel again. I haven't been able to cry for 20 years and now I get choked up at the corniest things...and I love it. I am very easily over stimulated as some of you have noticed also in your journey. I have a stressful job but since trying to give up Lexapro, I have many days that I am hanging on by a thread when I used to be able to push on through. I also have frequents bouts of self doubt and almost paranoia and I wonder if I'm really losing it! i just keep telling myself that I'm not losing it - I'm getting my mind back and hopefully some joy to go with it.

[FightingForHope]

Fightingforhope, I identify with a lot of what you say ... needing to move on with my life but not trusting my judgement yet, shaky on my feet, impatience, self esteem / self worth issues, vulnerability, stuck in my head, self blame, grief over sense of loss, dissatisfaction with a many aspects of my life, etc. and of course I ask myself too, is it the meds, is it WD from them, is it underlying issues? And the answer is probably yes to all of them. Zando, maybe that is my response to your question, and I'm not sure that I will ever "solve" my issues that feed my anxiety, panic and depression ... but perhaps I can wear them as scars instead of as wounds, less potent as I have worked (and continue to work) with them?

 

I think the "finding a way to continue to move on (forward)" piece is the biggest challenge, and also completely necessary. What else can I do really but do the best I can to put one foot in front of the next knowing that I will be doing so "imperfectly?" Windows and waves ... I know I experience them pretty dramatically, and at the same time I think it's part of the natural human experience to have ups and downs. I know I need to both cut myself some slack and find the courage to to look at myself with eyes wide open, fully human, and consistently find the next best step. SO hard!

 

Yesterday evening I took a walk in the park and cried because the sunset was so beautiful (a window no doubt). My hope is that through all of this, I can find awe, wonder, beauty and gratitude. Again, so often this is so difficult to do.

 

Thanks Elbee ... I think you have the right attitude. And I will never get tired of hearing I am not the only one, as selfish as that sounds, as it validates that it is the WD! This planet of regret and fear and angst I carry, is the weight and magnification of the WD, it's not all just me. I keep having to remind myself, so I don't lose hope it will pass, as many "illnesses" do. Because I do see it as a kind of illness.

 

I am really frustrated with this one step forward two steps backward process! I really thought I was getting better, but the past two weeks have been bad, and for every good moment I have there are 5 bad ones waiting for me. It's like if I don't pay attention and stay careful and mindful, and instead forget it all and just go with life for a bit, I end back up to square one, shaking and crying and wondering what happened.

 

I think what you say about wearing your issues as less potent scars - not wounds - sounds wise, and something to strive for. I think I used to do that successfully, but lately all the scars have been turned back into wounds, and it's hard not to feel weepy and dramatic, or despondent and angry all day. Then I feel soooo terrible about it. It IS HARD. I am happy for you that you have moments when beauty moves you... those are good - when crying feels good.

[FightingForHope]

Zandro, that's a good way to describe it; a sort of 'garbage truck' of what I've started calling 'neuro-plight' - in light of the opening post by Healing describing neuro-fear, neuro-regret, neuro-grudge-holding, etc...  the solution must be both time for our system to heal, and working on the underlying issues. But the length of time it takes is certainly frustrating and exhausting.

 

This all seems all frustrating. It reminds of the "garbage truck" when all the bad memories and failures of your life come back to hunt you and you can't stop them. I wonder if someone has solved their issues that lead to depreseion can't they be controlled in a way? Or it's just the chemicals in the brain and you can't fight them.

[Help777]

I feel so comforted reading all of your posts. I'm so sorry you feel such anguish at times. But hearing your experiences of this distress helps validate my whole experience with wd and the suffering. I'm encouraged by your windows. I had a great window of 15 days. I'm sure I convinced everyone around me that I was recovered. Then a bad wave hit, currently in day 5. I'm not sleeping and my emotions are ridiculous overwhelming. Did the wave cause the insomnia and emotions or did the lack of sleep cause the increase in intensity of emotions...not sure. Probably a vicious cycle. Now I'm sure those around me are questioning how I could go from this good stretch to barely being able to cope. I don't understand it myself. Wishing you peace and strength to get through these waves.

[FightingForHope]

On another note; how has this affected you guys at work? I am pretty sure that my odd moods, apathy, and varied oddball behavior in the past year has ruined some of my relationships there. And has prompted some petty reprisals and social ousting born of misunderstanding. But I can't really explain this to anyone, so on I go, as best as I can, confused most days, and trying to remind myself that I can't get too angry, since they can't know, and this too shall pass. Yes, I do feel like a victim. It is not my finest hour. :-/

[FightingForHope]

I feel so comforted reading all of your posts. I'm so sorry you feel such anguish at times. But hearing your experiences of this distress helps validate my whole experience with wd and the suffering. I'm encouraged by your windows. I had a great window of 15 days. I'm sure I convinced everyone around me that I was recovered. Then a bad wave hit, currently in day 5. I'm not sleeping and my emotions are ridiculous overwhelming. Did the wave cause the insomnia and emotions or did the lack of sleep cause the increase in intensity of emotions...not sure. Probably a vicious cycle. Now I'm sure those around me are questioning how I could go from this good stretch to barely being able to cope. I don't understand it myself. Wishing you peace and strength to get through these waves.

 

Gosh, I know exactly what you mean; I went from feeling 'almost back to normal' for a few days (in fits and sputters, but it was there, I felt it; independent again, bold and confident, even "worthy") to now barely coping. I was almost forgetting about windows and waves until this last wave hit, and now I am scared etc again. I am sorry too to hear of everyone's pain here too, because I know how it feels, but grateful to be hearing it at the same time (eek), as like you I feel validated and not so alone. My sleep pattern is ridiculous; I won't sleep one night, then manage to sleep an almost decent 7 hrs the next night (not guaranteed). So when I am relieved and grateful to have had a good night, what IS guaranteed is that the following night or more I won't have peace. I too am puzzled by this back tracking. But they do say recovery is like that ...

Have you noticed any* improvement in this wave as opposed to your earlier ones? I think it is there, but it's hard to see through the haze sometimes, when every little thing hurts. I think my cognitive functions have improved, almost certainly, or at least clarity is improving in bits.

[Help777]

 

I feel so comforted reading all of your posts. I'm so sorry you feel such anguish at times. But hearing your experiences of this distress helps validate my whole experience with wd and the suffering. I'm encouraged by your windows. I had a great window of 15 days. I'm sure I convinced everyone around me that I was recovered. Then a bad wave hit, currently in day 5. I'm not sleeping and my emotions are ridiculous overwhelming. Did the wave cause the insomnia and emotions or did the lack of sleep cause the increase in intensity of emotions...not sure. Probably a vicious cycle. Now I'm sure those around me are questioning how I could go from this good stretch to barely being able to cope. I don't understand it myself. Wishing you peace and strength to get through these waves.

 

 

Gosh, I know exactly what you mean; I went from feeling 'almost back to normal' for a few days (in fits and sputters, but it was there, I felt it; independent again, bold and confident, even "worthy") to now barely coping. I was almost forgetting about windows and waves until this last wave hit, and now I am scared etc again. I am sorry too to hear of everyone's pain here too, because I know how it feels, but grateful to be hearing it at the same time (eek), as like you I feel validated and not so alone. My sleep pattern is ridiculous; I won't sleep one night, then manage to sleep an almost decent 7 hrs the next night (not guaranteed). So when I am relieved and grateful to have had a good night, what IS guaranteed is that the following night or more I won't have peace. I too am puzzled by this back tracking. But they do say recovery is like that ...

Have you noticed any* improvement in this wave as opposed to your earlier ones? I think it is there, but it's hard to see through the haze sometimes, when every little thing hurts. I think my cognitive functions have improved, almost certainly, or at least clarity is improving in bits.

Hi fighting for hope,

Your words describe my experience exactly! Yes, I do think there is small improvement with each wave. My husband is great at feedback. He says my bounce back is improving. the waves are getting shorter and even though I can have really intense symptoms within a wave he thinks I can recover more quickly...not spiral down quite as far for quite as long. This is harder for me to judge and so I lean on his confidence of this. Do you think this is the same pattern for you. I enjoy the windows but I cringe at the thought of the next wave, with its harsh, unpredictabal, nonsensical way of robbing another chunk of time from my life.

I read your post about how wd is impacting your life stage and whether or not you can have children. My heart goes out to you. I hope that you experience that window of forever soon that will enable you to embrace whatever decision you make. Keep fighting!

[HeatherRose]

I have been feeling dreadful emotional turmoil since I have been coming off various meds lately. Number one is intense anger--at everything and everyone. I just some days walk around with this cloud of seething hate looming over my head which is NOT like I usually am. Another one is really terrible sadness that leads to feelings of envy of my friend's accomplishments, lives and families. Which is not normal for me either. I am generally so happy for my friends when they get new jobs, new relationships, babies, weddings, etc.....but lately it's just this ball of envy that overtakes me and leads to feelings of intense dissatisfaction with my own life and then down into depression, guilt and regret.

 

 

so confusing!!

[zandro]

I have been feeling dreadful emotional turmoil since I have been coming off various meds lately. Number one is intense anger--at everything and everyone. I just some days walk around with this cloud of seething hate looming over my head which is NOT like I usually am. Another one is really terrible sadness that leads to feelings of envy of my friend's accomplishments, lives and families. Which is not normal for me either. I am generally so happy for my friends when they get new jobs, new relationships, babies, weddings, etc.....but lately it's just this ball of envy that overtakes me and leads to feelings of intense dissatisfaction with my own life and then down into depression, guilt and regret.

 

 

so confusing!!

That is horrible! Remind yourself it's all fake!

[Help777]

 

 

I feel so comforted reading all of your posts. I'm so sorry you feel such anguish at times. But hearing your experiences of this distress helps validate my whole experience with wd and the suffering. I'm encouraged by your windows. I had a great window of 15 days. I'm sure I convinced everyone around me that I was recovered. Then a bad wave hit, currently in day 5. I'm not sleeping and my emotions are ridiculous overwhelming. Did the wave cause the insomnia and emotions or did the lack of sleep cause the increase in intensity of emotions...not sure. Probably a vicious cycle. Now I'm sure those around me are questioning how I could go from this good stretch to barely being able to cope. I don't understand it myself. Wishing you peace and strength to get through these waves.

 

Gosh, I know exactly what you mean; I went from feeling 'almost back to normal' for a few days (in fits and sputters, but it was there, I felt it; independent again, bold and confident, even "worthy") to now barely coping. I was almost forgetting about windows and waves until this last wave hit, and now I am scared etc again. I am sorry too to hear of everyone's pain here too, because I know how it feels, but grateful to be hearing it at the same time (eek), as like you I feel validated and not so alone. My sleep pattern is ridiculous; I won't sleep one night, then manage to sleep an almost decent 7 hrs the next night (not guaranteed). So when I am relieved and grateful to have had a good night, what IS guaranteed is that the following night or more I won't have peace. I too am puzzled by this back tracking. But they do say recovery is like that ...

Have you noticed any* improvement in this wave as opposed to your earlier ones? I think it is there, but it's hard to see through the haze sometimes, when every little thing hurts. I think my cognitive functions have improved, almost certainly, or at least clarity is improving in bits.

Hi fighting for hope,

Your words describe my experience exactly! Yes, I do think there is small improvement with each wave. My husband is great at feedback. He says my bounce back is improving. the waves are getting shorter and even though I can have really intense symptoms within a wave he thinks I can recover more quickly...not spiral down quite as far for quite as long. This is harder for me to judge and so I lean on his confidence of this. Do you think this is the same pattern for you. I enjoy the windows but I cringe at the thought of the next wave, with its harsh, unpredictabal, nonsensical way of robbing another chunk of time from my life.

I read your post about how wd is impacting your life stage and whether or not you can have children. My heart goes out to you. I hope that you experience that window of forever soon that will enable you to embrace whatever decision you make. Keep fighting!

I could edit the previous post. This current wave is enduring and close in severity as one of the first waves. Maybe I am not improving with time. So discouraging.

[FightingForHope]

 

 

 

I feel so comforted reading all of your posts. I'm so sorry you feel such anguish at times. But hearing your experiences of this distress helps validate my whole experience with wd and the suffering. I'm encouraged by your windows. I had a great window of 15 days. I'm sure I convinced everyone around me that I was recovered. Then a bad wave hit, currently in day 5. I'm not sleeping and my emotions are ridiculous overwhelming. Did the wave cause the insomnia and emotions or did the lack of sleep cause the increase in intensity of emotions...not sure. Probably a vicious cycle. Now I'm sure those around me are questioning how I could go from this good stretch to barely being able to cope. I don't understand it myself. Wishing you peace and strength to get through these waves.

 

Gosh, I know exactly what you mean; I went from feeling 'almost back to normal' for a few days (in fits and sputters, but it was there, I felt it; independent again, bold and confident, even "worthy") to now barely coping. I was almost forgetting about windows and waves until this last wave hit, and now I am scared etc again. I am sorry too to hear of everyone's pain here too, because I know how it feels, but grateful to be hearing it at the same time (eek), as like you I feel validated and not so alone. My sleep pattern is ridiculous; I won't sleep one night, then manage to sleep an almost decent 7 hrs the next night (not guaranteed). So when I am relieved and grateful to have had a good night, what IS guaranteed is that the following night or more I won't have peace. I too am puzzled by this back tracking. But they do say recovery is like that ...

Have you noticed any* improvement in this wave as opposed to your earlier ones? I think it is there, but it's hard to see through the haze sometimes, when every little thing hurts. I think my cognitive functions have improved, almost certainly, or at least clarity is improving in bits.

Hi fighting for hope,

Your words describe my experience exactly! Yes, I do think there is small improvement with each wave. My husband is great at feedback. He says my bounce back is improving. the waves are getting shorter and even though I can have really intense symptoms within a wave he thinks I can recover more quickly...not spiral down quite as far for quite as long. This is harder for me to judge and so I lean on his confidence of this. Do you think this is the same pattern for you. I enjoy the windows but I cringe at the thought of the next wave, with its harsh, unpredictabal, nonsensical way of robbing another chunk of time from my life.

I read your post about how wd is impacting your life stage and whether or not you can have children. My heart goes out to you. I hope that you experience that window of forever soon that will enable you to embrace whatever decision you make. Keep fighting!

I could edit the previous post. This current wave is enduring and close in severity as one of the first waves. Maybe I am not improving with time. So discouraging.

 

 

Hi Help777, thank you SO much for your words! ... hang in there! My wave ended, and I am feeling another window now .. your wave WILL pass! And you are getting better; believe this, and in yourself even if it seems like you cannot. Hopefully when your next window comes you will look back and see that you've somehow come out of this last wave a bit better than at other times. Either way, try to not believe in that discouraged feeling; it's hard, but you are recovering somehow, every day, your body is getting better. And the waves are part of it. It helps me to try to hang on to the certainty and clarity of my friends and loved ones whenever mine fail me; listening to the more objective voices than mine around me. I try to remind myself not to call it the WD but the Recovery. Please know I am in your corner, wishing you peace soon and always!

[HeatherRose]

i dont know if my last post was posted. feeling very upset the last two days. overwhelmed and angry at everything and everyone. last night came home from two weeks up north with my family. came home already depressed and overwhelmed at all my doctor appointments, lab tests and other stuff i have to take care of. went out grocery shopping today and it was a hard thing to do. I am more comfy now back at home but also very upset and angry. trying to get better at posting here. but overwhelmed and brain foggy and not concentrating well.

[LongRoadtoFreedom]

 

 

I also wonder to what degree to we dismiss neuro emotions. They are still emotions despite they are messed up. I remember at one point before I came to this forum and learned about this stuff a bit more, I felt it was all repressed emotions coming up. Not some kind of rewiring but all the stuff that got buried or messed up during our stints on psych drugs. So I'm not totally eager to dismiss neuro emotions. They may be more of a live wire and more of a challenge and exist because of the meds we took and are now not taking but to dismiss them completely may not be the most healthy thing to do since from what I have read in this forum, many of even the most seemingly innocent triggers can clearly have roots in larger issues that were buried. So do we then dismiss them or examine them? I remember I think someone wrote about losing it when their mom turned off the light or something. But that could easily be rooted in a core feeling of lack of consideration or doing without thinking or a variety of similar things which I'd have to put into context with that person to see if there was more to it. My guess is it was there only it was buried with drugs and is now surfacing through even the smallest transgressions.

 

I'm going to be the one who is pushing the envelope here on the neuro emotions and the one who says that despite what we see as reason, I believe there is an underlying reason which relates directly to years of medication screwing with our abilities to appropriately cope with things that were painful to us or things that hurt us in any way. And now, even the smallest things become triggers because we've got these deep wounds that were never dealt with and so they never healed and off the meds and in withdrawal, all things are coming to light. Unfortunately, they come to light in a powerful and heavily charged way. However, examining them and working toward healing them or dealing with them is probably where the answers lie rather than dismissing them entirely. I've gotta go with instinct on this one. I say there's something hidden beneath or within the neuro stuff that was buried by the drugs and is now free to come forth and perhaps acknowledging whatever these things are is a quicker path to resolution than dismissal of them since dismissal of them was what the drugs were designed to do.

 

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

 

Edited to add: it reminds me of PTSD. I had it and lived through it after being raped so I know much about it. Essentially, at the core is the trauma. It's always about the trauma. But it gets all mucked up because we cannot process it (in the way I see the drugs mucking up our processing ability). And then one day some door or window opens or become unhinged and it all comes out but in a turbulent and barely coherent way. And also, it's intense and exacerbated. But as you whittle away through coping and therapy and facing it you get to the core of what is going on in that person that caused the PTSD to form. I feel that is what neuro emotion is like. Buried emotions coming to light and now we've got to untangle them and deal with them. And why wouldn't they come to light when given the chance? They are part of our psyche. Part of who we are. Part of our soul. If we are wounded from them, part of our path is to heal those wounds or remain damaged and guided poorly because of that damage, like a broken compass of sorts.

 

BRILLIANT post!! I agree 100%. The neuroemotion are unhinging, indeed. However, for me, I feel they dredge up and magnify feelings that were buried long ago, even before being drugged, because I was so adept at repressing emotions. The emotional excavating going on throughout withdrawal has been compared to a slow motion near death experience. Very painful, but illuminating. I try to keep in mind that the emotions are intensified but do not dismiss them as false or unwarranted. I believe they needed to be addressed long ago.

 

This is in line with why CBT and "positive thinking" never helped me. I had far deeper issues at the root and trying to reframe or redirect my surface feelings without looking at when and how those feelings took root did nothing but frustrate me and put another layer of garbage on my buried emotions. I may work for the rest of my life to uncover patterns that took hold in childhood, but awareness is a good 1st line of attack.

 

Thanks, Starlitegirlx, for bringing this forward.

 

NOTE: This post refers to a discussion which was moved to "Family and Friends: Toxic Family". However, this post is back on the topic of neuro-emotions. -Jemima

[LongRoadtoFreedom]

Great post Starlite.

As a psychologist I'm obviously a little biased to agree with you but this Neuro emotions thing is very interesting to me. I'm still tapering from

Effexor. Only been on it this year but I have a 15 years history with ADs. I did taper off completely using Prozac into 2013 and was off completely for 6 months. It was amazing. And no withdrawal reactions at all until I hit two big life changes at the same time. Crash and back to ADs. Anyway, I have another post running around Effexor tapering and I'm down from

225 to 112.5 in 6 months and have also changed jobs in the process. But having read a lot here now about Effexor being the big bad wolf I'm quite concerned and I'll go slow.

Just wonder why more people don't swap across to something like Prozac to make it easier.

All the best and great post.

LRTF

[HeatherRose]

hi. I am new. I am not exactly getting off drugs yet as changing them. I AM in withdrawel from a significant amount of Seroquel I was on for years though and I KNOW that a lot of my emotions there were dulled and so now that i am off the seroquel I am feeling things more strongly again. It is a true thing that the drugs do numb us somewhat--that is what they do right?--so that it is hard when we are off the drugs now we have to deal with all that stuff that was dulled before. And all our past traumas and heartaches that we would have dealt with at the time we are dealing with now that we don't have that numbing agent in our system.

[Morgane]

When JanCarol said the following:  ‘We'd also love to hear any Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms you have been using to help you!’, the thought that came to mind was that I had no idea at all because for the past 4 yours it was as if I had been living in a no-man’s-land with hardly feeling anything, if not to say being completely numb.

However, when I read the post where Healing states:  ‘The neuro-emotions include -- neuro-fear neuro-anger neuro-guilt neuro-shame neuro-hurt neuro-regret neuro-self-criticism neuro-grudge-holding ...’, I thought: Jesus, I have been living through them all.

 

I often wondered if I had done so many terrible things in my life that I had to live through all of these hellish emotions. I used to either withdraw myself from people or look for company depending on the emotion that became too overempowering. Now, looking back upon them, caused by the meds or not, I learned a lot from them. Crazy as it may sound, I can now empathically understand the terrible things that are going on in this world, what may cause them and how people are driven to so many harmful actions.

 

 

Around the age of 16, we had a school outing and visited a psychiatric ward. While we were being shown around, I felt deeply for the people who were hospitalized. I remember thinking: ‘I truly hope I will never end up here.’  So many years later, I experienced what it is like to be in an open psychiatric ward 4 times after going through two psychoses.

 

About 11 years ago, just before the first psychosis, I knew I wasn’t feeling myself and when my youngest daughter was doing her Holy Communion I prayed to God to give me the strength to overcome (although I didn’t understand at that moment) and lit a candle. He brought two wonderful dogs into my life who, for the past 4 years, have been my strength when I was too weak to leave the house and each time pulled me out to have a walk in Mother Nature who freely gave me of her energy. They also helped me to remember that they needed their daily food and that I needed to eat as well. He surrounded me with the people who all in their own way gave me what I needed to believe in myself, to never give up and to persevere. And He led me to three wonderful books that finally helped me to understand what I had been living through and gave me the answers I had semi-unconsciously been looking for in my life.

 

 

If you would like me to share these books with you, I am very happy to do so. I have two of them on pdf-file. The third book, however, is written in Dutch and there is no English translation. At the end of this book there is such a beautiful passage that I really would like to share with you as well but I will need to ask the publisher for permission if it were to be translated into English.