baronvontito: New on the Forum, 18 Years of PAROXETINE / PAXIL - Do I need to stop it or take it forever..

[baronvontito]

Hi Everyone,

First of all I want to thank each person who will take the time to read my story and answer me

 

This is my story and I could write a book..

I am a 33 years old French man I started PAROXETINE when I was 16 years old ( 18 years of treatment )

 

 

2006
I Started PAROXETINE at 20mg by my family doctor following a huge panic attack triggered by a bad trip to Canabis (heavy consumption the same day) in high school, with a suddenly effects of DP/ DR tenfold, symptom accompanied by period of black out..
I was not a regular consumer just a young person with bad attendance and very impressionable who wanted to try.
At this point I did not know what DPDR was and no doctor explained to me the why of the how.
For me it was a reaction of cannabis.

The years have passed I have not had any particular psychological or psychiatric follow-up. DPDR it is installed then it is attenuated until disappearing, I remember having occasional panic attacks that manifested by a DPDR and then went away..

Terrible teen that I was it was not my lesson, DPDR resurfaced on a Christmas night or I re-smoked cannabis with a bad trip that manifested as the first time with blackout periods

The years have passed.
I tried to stop treatment with my doctor several times.
The instructions of my first weaning were to take 1 pills per day then every other day then every other day etc...
The symptoms of physical withdrawal brain zap often made me stop attempts to stop treatment because unbearable with reintroduction of the dose at 20mg each time.
I had to stay at least 8-10 years at 20mg I felt normal.

 

 

2015-2016
During these years I always wanted deep down to stop this treatment because I did not want to be dependent on a drug and for me everything was fine but I began to be afraid of the long-term effect on my memory, An example in a discussion with friends when I was asked, you remember when we did this on that day or you remember this movie… and I had trouble remembering each time… (I still have this problem to this day 18 years later)
So I started looking on the internet for a way to stop this treatment that for me was the cause of this loss of memory and that would make me lose my mind in the long term..
I do not have a great memory but I found this forum in 2015 or I found info that explained that during a withdrawal it was especially important not to jump dose and that it was necessary to gradually decrease the doses by taking it all the days I started to cut the tablet from 20mg in 2 from 20mg to 10mg
I stayed for a long time at month 2-3 years at this dose trying later to cut it again in 2 and passing to 5mg

It should be noted that during all these years I have always been someone very anxious who constantly wonders about the why of the like, life, existence, a terrible anguish by death with occasional anxiety attack and panic attack that manifested through a DP/DR and then passed and I became normal again without being blocked in the DP/DR
(I still don’t know what DP/DR was in those 2015-16 years)

 

 

2020
My wife gets pregnant, upheaval in our life, during pregnancy questions begin to settle, life, life existence, aging etc…
We go on holiday in the USA in the family of my wife
For 3 weeks I drink alcohol because the family there party and drink alcohol, almost every day, (but usually I do not drink alcohol I drink some beer from time to time but no more...)
At this time (and even before these holidays ) I regularly drank lots of coffee like any normal person.
Coffee has always tended to make my heart beat
We come back from vacation the same evening I lie next to my wife and a big palpitation happen, I put the hand of my wife on my heart I’m afraid, I have the impression of having a heart attack, but it is a panic attack.
I ended up falling asleep..
The next day, everything got weird I’m not myself the DPDR came back knocking and settles and gets worse by the day
The loop settles, existential questions turn in loop, the birth of my future child, the fear of growing up, aging and death, it turns in loop, all the days.

 

I’m not hungry anymore.
This time it’s about I’m going crazy, I literally think I’m going schizophrenic. (I still don’t know what DPDR is at that time)
I decide to make an appointment with a psychiatrist explaining the situation, at that time I was at 10mg PAROXETINE, he tells me that 10mg is not a therapeutic dose it is necessary to go up to 20mg to feel effects
I go up to 20mg of PAROXETINE but nothing always passes this weird feeling of being foreign to myself.
I take an other appointment with him and he tell me to go up to 40mg of PAROXETINE and prescribe TRANXENE(Clorazépate) to take punctually
I try some day I take a TRANXENE my condition worsens..
I continue it’s even worse I decide to go down to 20mg of PARXOETINE it’s still not okay but I continue and stabilize to 20mg of PAROXETINE

I am afraid, I take refuge on the internet, what happens to me? I search : "Weird sensation of not being yourself" I discover the word Depersonalization and Déréalization DP/DR I search and search and read lots of forums in French, English, YouTube etc… , I’m a little reassured because I’m not alone in having this but I’m still with this DP/DR symptoms
I come across a video the guy explains that : "it’s a weird sensation, its strange but not dangerous… quick tips put sunglasses!" , I do it immediately it calms down a little and I come across a site that catches my attention: "the guide to overcome dpdr" of Shaun O Connor

 

I read it and learn what is really the DPDR, its a symptom of Aniety, then i applied to the letter the steps of the guide.
Time passes I get back to the gym, I discover breathing, cardiac coherence, I go see a Psychologist expert in EFT technique to manage my emotions,
DP/DR still does not pass I continue to look, I go to see a neuropsychologist I make a brain x-ray for me I have a tumor but results... no, nothing i am normal.
The sessions pass, I hang up during this period to snort a paper soaked with lavender because I read that it calms the stress, my state improves only a little I hold the blow, I occupy my mind, I work, my daughter is finally born, I listen to music all day, music is my life. I’m a drummer.

 

I put into practice what I learn in the guide!

I stop eating too much candy of all kinds during this period and especially I stop coffee because I learn that it triggers anxiety in my case, I tell myself that’s it, I drink up to 4-5 coffee a day, I put my finger on the cause
I drink too much coffee and too much caffeine = palpitation = it triggers my screams of anxiety why I didn’t think about it earlier…
For me I found the solution:
I stop coffee = I wouldn’t have panic attacks
I stop my antidepressant = I am cured no more memory problem.
Life goes on DPRDR fades and DPDR disappears without I really realize when

 

 

2021
My daughter grew up, she is already 1 year old and I no longer have an anxiety attack, I really feel normal
The Covid lockdown is coming and I stay at home I see my daughter growing, stressed of this strange period but no anxiety attack, because for me I put my finger on the problem, no more panic attack as long as I will not drink coffee I will not have any anxiety attack.
I start to look to now deal with this PAROXETINE treatment.
I read and read on the internet I learn that PAROXETINE has a very short half-life that must be reduced by 10% increments otherwise the side effects happen very quickly.
I learn that PAROXETINE exists in liquid version so i begin it.

 

 

2022-2023
I do an excel sheet with calculations and final dates, end of year I am free of this poison that for me makes me lose memory and that is finally can be also potentially trigger Anxiety DP/DR
I start the liquid version I go down from 20mg to 10mg of PAROXETINE, everything is fine I stabilize at 10mg and I continue by lowering 1mg by 1mg Every month so : 9mg - 8mg -7mg - 6mg...until 0
I arrive at 2 mg of PAROXETINE i do not have any withdrawal symptom but onyl light brain zap, but problem, the bottle is empty I go to the pharmacy as usual to take my treatment but the pharmacist told me that the liquid version is stopped in France for an indeterminate duration..

 

I drive until 2 hours to take the last stock of pharmacies nearby
I go down to 1.5mg of PAROXETINE, I’m almost there, I’m at the end but I have no more PAROXETINE in the bottle... what do I do?
I go on internet I search that I could make switches on PROZAC/FLUOXETINE which is also in liquid.
I don’t have time, I don’t have anything left in the bottle just enough to switch gradually to PROZAC.
I change my excel table with the dose and date calculation for the switch and let’s go.

Meanwhile I move, I buy a house and begins heavy renovation work, lots of stress..

I debute a cross switch
I lower the PAROXETINE : 1,5mg - 1 - 0,5 - 0 and rise to 5mg of PROZAC and stabilize during 4 week of PROZAC
Brain zaps are hard but I’m finally going to be free… I’m holding on I’m almost there..
The days pass and suddenly DPDR arrives from nowhere and settles down and no longer me, what happens to me I thought I was done?
I don’t drink coffee anymore how is that possible?
This time it’s the right one my brain is screwed.
My condition degrades very quickly I put my sunglasses I take out my lavender paper back..
The loop resets day after day with the fear of being afraid…
, severe depression, severe anxiety, morning diarrhea, awakening with palpitation great sadness, uncontrolled crying, impulse phobia I am afraid of hurting myself I am afraid of committing suicide, I’m doing work in the bathroom upstairs I look at the window I’m afraid of losing control and jumping..

 

 

MARCH 2023
I can’t stay like this… I have a home business if I don’t work I don’t make money…
I take refuge on the internet and I search: Best psychiatrist DP/DR specialist
I search and I search I find a 400km a specialized hospital that speaks of DPDR the psychiatrist seems to know what she speaks and recognized in the environment
I take appointment I melt in tears I’m at the bottom of the hole..
She told me that the dose are too low and prescribed me 20mg of PROZAC and ATARAX(Hydroxyzine) to take punctually
2 weeks pass I retake an appointment with her it goes very slightly better so I continue at 20mg
4 weeks pass it worse, I have the impression that the PROZAC is too strong and it is what induces and persists DP/DR I ask him to lower to 10mg
I ask her if she knows a therapist because I would like to take things in hand and start a CBT , She gives me the name of a colleague she works with
I take 1 session then 2,3,4 until 8, i hang on that, I speak to her, it does me good I wait for each session as a deliverance,
It costs me a lot of money but I have no choice.
At the same time the DPDR persists I am still not myself sudden mood changes, sudden big sadness, uncontrolled crying, morning diarrhea, my libido collapses..

 

My wife is aware of my PAROXETINE treatment we have been together for 18 years , she has always suffered my mood change and do not understand I look good outside... but I in my head it is hell
She often asks me "what you look like you’re depressed ?"

My 3-year-old daughter also often asks me:
"Dad, why are you making that face" , "Dad, why are you sad?"
I’m having a hard time playing and taking care of her..
My anxiety is too present it always turns in loop in my head.
All awakenings are accompanied with palpitations and a new symptoms in the morning of the awakening are random words and phrases that pass at full speed in my head like when you have a music stuck in your head
What happens to me? I go crazy ? I have random words in my head i talk to myself ? this time it’s sure for me I am becoming schizophrenic... (but my Psychiatrist told me : I promise you are not schizophrenic, its all about anxiety..)

 

 

SEPTEMBER 2023
4 months pass the sessions of CBT help me a little, I space the sessions them more and more because too expensive, the DPDR is always present for me I am still not normal I am always disconnected I continue to occupy my mind every minute, I continue the renovation of my house all the days even the week-end, first minute of each day I put my earphones I have to occupy my mind, I listen to podcasts until the evening everything is good so that I avoid thinking about DP/DR and looping on the existential thoughts it tired me but I have no other solution..

 

 

OCTOBER 2023
A rather exceptional event manifests itself on a Sunday, by sudden brain zap, vertigo.. , I wonder what happens to me, big palpitation I have the impression that I will have a heart attack, I am at 2 finger to call the emergency, I decide to go to the "Emergency Pharmacy" because all our pharmacy are closed on Sunday in France,

I take my prescription with me, I tell myself that the box of prozac has a defect and that suddenly I have brain zap I do not understand..
To my surprise and as the pharmacist informs me:
"Sir it’s normal, have a look, they were wrong at your last prescription, they gave you PAROXETINE instead of PROZAC,

I look at the prescription and it is well marked : PAROXETINE delivery. I cry, its a nightmare..
Its actually been 1 month that I had switch without knowing 10mg of PROZAC to 10mg of PAROXETINE.

Unfortunately, I did not notice this mistake cause I usually put the box of medicine in my bag by taking it in the morning in a hurry before work without my daughter seeing me take it, I did not check the box, it has become so automatic... I blamed myself terribly, what a nightmare, the last switch PAROXETINE —> PROZAC had been so hard and horrible that I had gone back to square one…

 

 

1ST DECEMBER 2023
My condition is horrible, my brother-in-law’s father died suddenly, I put myself in his place , its loop in my head, I’m afraid, I cry, I transpose all the faces of my family on the body, I decide to go back to 20mg of PROZAC I have no other solution on hand..

The next day on December 2nd it is already better, i am quite surprised because the PROZAC has a very long half life..

 

 

14 DECEMBER 2023
Debut of new unpleasant symptom random tingling sensation throughout the body, adrenaline discharge sensation with sudden tingling, I become very sensitive to the slightest sound , TV, light, it triggers me this weird symptoms

 

 

16 December 20233
I go from 20mg to 10mg of PROZAC to try to alleviate the new symptoms because for me the PROZAC does not suit me or the dose is not good, (for me the PROZAC was always something that did not suit me and made me feel weird) i don't know..

 

 

2024

So actually, 2 months later, I am still at 10 mg of PROZAC, I decided to stabilize myself at this dose even if i am not feeling normal, cause as you can see there were a lot of changes in the dose of PROZAC.

I still do not feel myself, always this feeling of DR of unreality of the world, depression, with moments where my face freezes without emotion… and loss/supression of my libido like I’ve never had.

I don’t know what’s happening to me.

According to my research on the forum and the article of Altostrata on PUBMED I explain what happened to me with the sudden arrival of a big anxiety and DP/ DR during the switch last year is that I was in the post withdrawal phase of PAROXETINE and that the sudden loss of libido would be PSSD ?, I am not yet very familiar with all these terms but I think I put my finger on the why of the how, tell me if I am wrong.

 

My current dilemma:
Is it better not to be dependent and not to take an antidepressant but to risk being bad and "look like sh*t" all my life with this depression, DP/DR or is it better to take an antidepressant (PAROXETINE) all my life but to feel good.

I am currently thinking of 2 solutions because I want to get out of it,

 

1) Doing a gradual withdrawal of PROZAC knowing that I am stabilizing at 10mg, and try to live without antidepressant (I do not know what it is to live without this antidepressant I do not remember because I started it when I was 16)

 

OR

 

2) Take the PAROXETINE back to 10mg and take it all my life, because it is very hard stopped with its very short half-life.

 

In fact i think, i am not a specialist but its easier to stop a long half life antidepressant than a short half life one.

I ask to you all, because my psychiatrist clearly told me that PAROXETINE was not possible that it was not a stable molecule and that if we had to change antidepressant we would go from PROZAC to SERTRALINE

 

Please, I am very lost and look for any help,

Thanks again for everyone who came this far

 

Have an excellent day

 

 

[Emonda]

Welcome @baronvontito 

That's quite a journey you've had. I'm sorry to read of your suffering. I'll direct my comments on things from March 2023 onwards.

 

Your doctor gave you the following to take at the same time?

 

23 hours ago, baronvontito said:

20mg of PROZAC and ATARAX(Hydroxyzine)

 

It's always good to put the meds you take into the drug interaction checker: https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html.  It seems there is a moderate interaction between the two.

 

You've made a lot of changes over a relatively short period of time. This would leave you feeling very fragile. I find it beneficial to reflect on this link from time to time: Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

When you taper, you need to do it slowly: Why taper by 10% of my dosage? Realistically, it will take 2 - 3 years, if you do it properly. If you push faster than this, you will likely experience very unpleasant WD symptoms: Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF)  

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:11 PM, baronvontito said:

they were wrong at your last prescription, they gave you PAROXETINE instead of PROZAC,

 

Being given the wrong meds by the pharmacy is very unhelpful and, again, would leave you feeling absolutely rotten. People even feel off simply by changing the manufacture of the same drug...you've unintentionally changed the actual drug. There is a lesson here for all of us, check what the pharmacy gives you. I'll confess, I've always just assumed they get it right myself.

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:11 PM, baronvontito said:

2 months later, I am still at 10 mg of PROZAC

 

Have things improved at all?

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:11 PM, baronvontito said:

My current dilemma:
Is it better not to be dependent and not to take an antidepressant but to risk being bad and "look like sh*t" all my life with this depression

 

If things are stabilising with 10mg of Prozac, I'd give yourself more time (months) to recover from the events of the past 12-18 months. More changes are likely to make you feel worse.

 

Once stable, maybe 6 months down the track, a very slow taper has worked for many on this site. I've reduced by 85% over two years after close to 30 years of use by following the recommendations on this site. 

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:11 PM, baronvontito said:

OR

 

2) Take the PAROXETINE back to 10mg and take it all my life, because it is very hard stopped with its very short half-life.

 

If things are stabilising with Prozac, I'd avoid more changes like the plague.

 

Here are some helpful links:

 

Windows and waves pattern of stabilization

 

Emotional Spirals

 

Non-drug coping strategies

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but two that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. Add one at a time and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Avoid alcohol. 

 

This is your own Introduction topic.  Each member has only ONE Introduction topic.  Your own Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions and the place to journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means you do not have to repeat your story. 

 

Once again, welcome to S.A.

 

Emonda

 

 

[baronvontito]

Hi Emonda 

 

Really sorry for my response delay i am actually gaving a hard flu 

Thanks for all your advices and links i will check all of it. 

 

 

1.Your doctor gave you the following to take at the same time?

 

Yes at the same time 

 

 

2.It's always good to put the meds you take into the drug interaction checker:

 

Thanks, i will check it and I will read all the post links you send me  

 

 

3.Two months later at 10 mg of PROZAC

Have things improved at all?

 

If i compare to March 2023 on my almost end of taper, today is better

 

If i compare during my period when i took paroxetine at 10mg during the 3 first years of my daughter, and where i was sure to have founded the solution of my anxiety and where i could define myself as « feeling normal » , today is a totally nightmare and i would like to end it asap. 

 

I feel bad since March 2023 when i have totally stopped paroxetine during the prozac switch.  

I have this weird background feeling of unreality 24/7 

I don’t drink any alcohol at all, any coffee, any green tea, any soda, any chocolate 

I am anxious, i am scared, my mouth is dry 

I am not felling happy something is stopping me. I am scared to die every day, sometimes i would like to not wake me up to stop all of this in my head but my daughter and my wife are here and i must be present for her. 

 

For me (and i’m not sure)

1. Prozac isnot working at all on me
2. Prozac made me feel bad and worse 
3. Prozac made me feel unreal

I will do ANYTHING to feel normal again, thats why i had the idea to go back on paroxetine. 

 

But i dont know anything about this meds, all of the doctors don’t know anything about what they prescribe

 

If only someone could tell me this :

Listen i had the same experience, Paroxetine is a poison its what you makes all of anxiety and panic attacks and DP/DR worse

You should stop your SSRI and all of your anxiety will go back to a normal range of a normal person. 

SSRI is « okay » for a short term of weeks but you cannot take it forever. 

So yes i will follow the direction to stop

 

 

4.If things are stabilising with 10mg of Prozac…

 

Yes i will give myself more time to begin a future taper

 

I send a bottle in the sea to find answers and anybody can reply to 

Why have you decided to stop your meds ? Because

1. they stop working 

2. beacause of the side effects (which one particularly?)

 

Thanks again

Have an excellent day. 

[jtarchin]

I was on Paxil for 15 yrs. My taper from 12mg took one year and then suddenly hit a wall at 5mg. I switched to Prozac 5mg for 5 days and stopped. It has been 60 days since ending. Withdrawal symptoms improved when I took Prozac but persist to this day. Symptoms are very slowly becoming less constant. My expectation is to face the fact that this may take 18 months to heal from. I'm hoping to be surprised and improve faster or gain momentum. In my best moments I find total acceptance of what is happening and find some ease.

You write a compelling description of how Paxil harms you. I applaud your sincere courage as you face the circumstances you are living out daily.

[Ryder]

On 2/13/2024 at 9:11 PM, baronvontito said:

I go on internet I search that I could make switches on PROZAC/FLUOXETINE which is also in liquid.

 

Drive over the border to Spain to go back on your original drug - Paroxetine. That's what I would have said from period 2022-2023. 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:11 PM, baronvontito said:

Is it better not to be dependent and not to take an antidepressant but to risk being bad and "look like sh*t" all my life with this depression, DP/DR or is it better to take an antidepressant (PAROXETINE) all my life but to feel good.

 

It doesn't matter how you look. Sounds like you crossed to Prozac in a hurry when you were on 2mg Paroxetine. 

Best is to stabilise at whatever your on now with Prozac. Do what you did with Paroxetine, and come back down slowly the exact same way on Prozac. For example 10mg, 9mg, 8mg,7mg, 6mg with your spreadsheet. You were almost there but made a decision to use the Prozac Bridge with haste. Crossing to Prozac bridge should only be done at higher doses around 20mg. 

 

You are not brain damaged, you just took a detour. I probably did the same thing way back.

[baronvontito]

On 2/17/2024 at 8:42 AM, jtarchin said:

I was on Paxil for 15 yrs. My taper from 12mg took one year and then suddenly hit a wall at 5mg. I switched to Prozac 5mg for 5 days and stopped. It has been 60 days since ending. Withdrawal symptoms improved when I took Prozac but persist to this day. Symptoms are very slowly becoming less constant. My expectation is to face the fact that this may take 18 months to heal from. I'm hoping to be surprised and improve faster or gain momentum. In my best moments I find total acceptance of what is happening and find some ease.

You write a compelling description of how Paxil harms you. I applaud your sincere courage as you face the circumstances you are living out daily.

Really sorry for my response delay, I am actually moving from my new house, so lots of work to do...

Thanks @jtarchin for you response and congratulation on quitting your meds. I Hope you will 100% withdrawal free 🙏

[baronvontito]

On 2/21/2024 at 6:43 AM, Ryder said:

 

Drive over the border to Spain to go back on your original drug - Paroxetine. That's what I would have said from period 2022-2023. 

Thanks for you reply, Yes if I had to do it again I would have traveled the world to avoid this Prozac switch

 

On 2/21/2024 at 6:43 AM, Ryder said:

It doesn't matter how you look. Sounds like you crossed to Prozac in a hurry when you were on 2mg Paroxetine. 

Best is to stabilise at whatever your on now with Prozac. Do what you did with Paroxetine, and come back down slowly the exact same way on Prozac. For example 10mg, 9mg, 8mg,7mg, 6mg with your spreadsheet. You were almost there but made a decision to use the Prozac Bridge with haste. Crossing to Prozac bridge should only be done at higher doses around 20mg. 

 

You are not brain damaged, you just took a detour. I probably did the same thing way back.

this is the deduction I made, there is a reason for every problem.. I think if I wait for the moment when everything is going well to start the switch I'm afraid of waiting a long time...

[baronvontito]

Like I said above , really sorry for my response delay, I am actually moving from my new house, so lots of work and boxes ... to do

 

Actually i still feel like sh*t ... so i was thinking begining early of March to start the taper, and I will keep you informed of the progress and withdrawals until the end of the taper.

 

I don't know if i have to move to the liquid version of Prozac or stuck with the dispersable tablet version, the liquid version seems to be easier to measure and take with a syringe,

What do you think ?

 

The taper will be like that :

MARCH 2024: 9mg

APRIL 2024 : 8mg

MAY 2024 : 7mg

JUNE 2024: 6mg

JULY 2024 : 5mg

AOUT 2024 : 4mg

SEPTEMBER 2024 : 3mg

OCTOBER 2024 : 2mg

NOVEMBER 2024 : 1mg

DECEMBER 2024 : 0mg

JANUARY 2025 : End of the nightmare... (i will pray for)

 

Do you think its too fast ?

 

Thanks again to everyone who answered and helped me.

Have an excellent day.

[Ryder]

Wait until you are ready to taper. 

 

Your taper plan looks fine to me and you can always wait and checkin on this forum at 5mg for advice. 

[LotusRising]

5 hours ago, baronvontito said:

The taper will be like that :

MARCH 2024: 9mg

APRIL 2024 : 8mg

MAY 2024 : 7mg

JUNE 2024: 6mg

JULY 2024 : 5mg

AOUT 2024 : 4mg

SEPTEMBER 2024 : 3mg

OCTOBER 2024 : 2mg

NOVEMBER 2024 : 1mg

DECEMBER 2024 : 0mg

JANUARY 2025 : End of the nightmare... (i will pray for)

This is faster than we would recommend on this site. 

 

We suggest no more than 10% of your most recent dose each month. If you refer back to @Emonda's post from Feb 14, he's given you some very good information. You might take another look at it.

 

 

[Emonda]

Assuming you can manage the maximum of 10% per month of the most recent dose (I can't), then it may look like this:

 

9mg, 8.1mg, 7.3mg, 6.6mg, 5.9mg, 5.3mg etc

 

Keep multiplying the last dose by 0.9.

[Chaos9211]

Hi Baron,

Sorry to hear about your struggles, and the mess up with the pharmacy.  as the mods have suggested please stick to 10% hyperbolic taper and not a linear 1mg reduction. Do read the following excellent resources on this site

 

 

and a published paper in Lancet on the subject, signifying why hyperbolic tapering is highly recommended.

 

 

It will be a long haul, take it one day at a time. Rushing it may cause running in circles eventually.

 

Good luck

[baronvontito]

@Ryder @LotusRising@Emonda@Chaos9211

Hi, thanks for your reply,

I had the idea to taper to a linear 1mg cause of simplicity, take the bottle, take a 1ml syringe and pull out the liquid and take it.

 

I  want to do things as best as possible this time so I'm not going to be stubborn and I'm going to listen to you all but I don't know how to do it as Fluoxetine as different form as you know, Dispersable and Liquid,

Dispersable form = 20mg/tablet

Liquid form = 20mg/5ml

For example, i don't know how to take the precise dose of 8,1mg or 7,3mg with a special syringe ?

Sorry i am not familiar with all of this method, so how to be precise

Thanks

[Chaos9211]

@baronvontito

 

Oral solution is 20mg/5ml, This means

   1 mL= 4mg

   0.5mL = 2mg

   0.25mL = 1mg

   0.2ml = 0.8mg

   

 

These graduations will set you up for atleast the first 2 steps of 10% taper.

Step 1: 10mg ->9mg

Step 2: 9mg-> 8.2 mg (9% reduction)

 

Please read up on tapering methodology, generally what is written on this site is 10% reduction and then holding for 4 to 6 weeks (and longer if you have WD symptoms) before you take the next step. Remember it is not a race, listen to your body.

 

Once you have successfully managed up to step 2, you can use 20mg dispersible tablet to make a solution in 20ml water. This will give you

 

1ml -> 1mg

0.5ml -> 0.5mg etc

 

so you can get as fine as you want with dosing. e.g. dissolve 20mg tablet in 40ml water and then you will have higher resolution on your measuring. Probably not the best way as chances of human error are greater. regardless of the method employed you are covered as far as dosing reduction is concerned.

 

I am sure the mods will chime in on the use of supplements, or you can search the site for your particular supplements and see what you find. I know from personal experience that Vitamin D3 for me is quite activating if I go above 400 IU/day. 

 

Here is Prozac (Flouxetine) Taper thread

Also will suggest that you read up on the links shared earlier by Emonda

[Ryder]

On 3/1/2024 at 7:15 PM, baronvontito said:

For example, i don't know how to take the precise dose of 8,1mg or 7,3mg with a special syringe ?

Sorry i am not familiar with all of this method, so how to be precise

 

You can ask your pharmacy to make your drug into liquid. Ask for compounding pharmacy. You will probably need your doctor to write you a script for this. Try to get him on board. 

 

It can also be made at home, as a "home brew" by most likely dissolving tablet into water, but I am not familiar with this method. I would try get a script first to see if your pharmacy can make it - they are more accurate with their scales and equipment. 

[baronvontito]

49 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

You can ask your pharmacy to make your drug into liquid. Ask for compounding pharmacy. You will probably need your doctor to write you a script for this. Try to get him on board. 

 

It can also be made at home, as a "home brew" by most likely dissolving tablet into water, but I am not familiar with this method. I would try get a script first to see if your pharmacy can make it - they are more accurate with their scales and equipment. 

 

 

Yes i have think about the pharmacy prep but with the past events with the pharmacy... and the wrong meds delivery etc... so i prefer to make it at home myself, and buy a precision scale.

So it will be 20mg dispersable tablet into 20ml water and pull out the precise amount.

Concerning the taper and starting from the principle of a 10% decrease every 4 weeks this gives this withdrawal schedule if i can manage the WD symptom...

 

20mg dispersable tablet into 20ml water
1mg -> 1 ml
0.5mg-> 0.5ml etc

 

10mg February 2024
9 mg -> 9ml March 2024
8,1 mg -> 8,1 ml April 2024
7,3 mg -> 7,3 ml May 2024
6,6 mg -> 6,6 ml June 2024
5,9 mg -> 5,9 ml July 2024
5,3mg -> 5,3 ml August 2024
4,8mg -> 4,8 ml September 2024
4,3 mg -> 4,3 ml October 2024
3,9 mg -> 3,9 ml November 2024
3,5 mg -> 3,5 ml December 2024
3,1 mg -> 3,1 ml January 2025
2,8 mg -> 2,8 ml February 2025
2,5 mg -> 2,5 ml March 2025
2,2 mg -> 2,2ml April 2025
2 mg -> 2ml May 2025
1,8mg -> 1,8 ml June 2025
1,6 mg -> 1,6 ml July 2025
1,4 mg -> 1,4ml August 2025
1,2 mg -> 1,2 ml September 2025
1 mg -> 1ml October 2025
0,9 mg -> 0,9ml November 2025
0,8 mg -> 0,8 mg December 2025
0,7 mg -> 0,7ml January 2026
0,6 mg -> 0,6ml February 2026
0,5 mg -> 0,5 ml March 2026
0,4 mg -> 0,4ml April 2026
0,3 mg-> 0,3 ml May 2026
0,2 mg -> 0,2 ml June 2026
0,1 mg -> 0,1 ml July 2026
0 August 2026

 

And its a looong way road 😭😭😭 but if its heal me its worth the wait

 

Thanks for all your links i have lots of read to do

 

Have a nice week end everyone

 

[baronvontito]

Hi Everyone,

 

I hope you all are doing well,

I have actually stop all my supplements since 2 weeks and try to re-introduce supplements by supplements to see which one is more activating as i have lots of up and down..

 

So i was waiting my precision scale and just receive it, i have try this morning to make a test with a dispersible tablet but its a pain to mix it, there are lot of particle of the meds which does not dissolve in the water, so to be as precise as possible i have decide to go with the liquid version of Prozac/Fluoxetin with the help of the scale (i have bought the Gemini 20 which is 0.001g precise) it should be good

even if i transform my wife kitchen into a Heisenberg Labs 

 

I enclosed you below my new taper schedule 20mg/5ml liquid version (20mg -> 5ml)

 

I continue to read your links every time I have a little time

 

Have a nice week end 

 

 

 

[baronvontito]

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all are doing well,

 

So i have started to switch from tablet PROZAC to liquid PROZAC since the 19th of March 2024 and have start to lower the dose from 10mg to 9mg (2,25ml) 

Maybe I should have made a switch from tablet to liquid at the same dose to see if there was any change...

 

I am actually feeling:

-high stressed in the morning even if i stay in the couch and doing some laptop work, a sensation of oppression and tight chest, 

-DR (Déréalization) is still present,

-impulse phobia

-tired, sensation of lack of sleep

-angry over nothing

 

Hard to tell if its from the WD or side effect of PROZAC

I can feel a difference, i don't know if its came from the tablet/liquid switch or the little drop of dosage from 10mg to 9mg

Or if its a wave from hell..

 

I will share you the progress of the taper.

 

Have a nice day

 

 

[LotusRising]

Hi @baronvontito

 

We typically suggest only making one change at a time. Your switch to liquid from tablet would be considered a dose change and ideally you would want to know how your body responds to liquid before making a reduction. 

 

How are you crossing over to liquid?

 

 

[baronvontito]

15 hours ago, LotusRising said:

Hi @baronvontito

 

We typically suggest only making one change at a time. Your switch to liquid from tablet would be considered a dose change and ideally you would want to know how your body responds to liquid before making a reduction. 

 

How are you crossing over to liquid?

 

 

 

Hi @LotusRising

 

Thanks for your quick reply 

So for crossing over to liquid, i have upload a step by step picture in the link below : 

 

https://ibb.co/9bg5FkY

 

As i am not sure of everything in life so maybe you could confirm me the process is good or not.

Thanks again

 

Have an excellent day

 

 

[LotusRising]

@baronvontito

 

I'm not comfortable opening an outside link, but the post above has our general recommendations.

[baronvontito]

So sorry @LotusRising, this is because the picture was too large for uploading here, i have upload below, let me know if its to blurry,

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited March 27 by baronvontito
forget to name the person to reply

[Chaos9211]

Hello just wondering when were u taking 10mg prozac in tablet form (date) and when did you switch to 9 mg liquid (date)

[Chaos9211]

Also the prozac liquid is 20mg/5ml

 

10mg -> 2.5ml

9mg -> 2.25 ml

 

Looking at graduations i would think u can measure 2.25 directly on the syringe 

[baronvontito]

1 hour ago, Chaos9211 said:

Hello just wondering when were u taking 10mg prozac in tablet form (date) and when did you switch to 9 mg liquid (date)

Hi @Chaos9211

 

Tablet form : 10mg until the 18 of March

Liquid form : 9mg debut the 19 of March

 

Yes you're right i can measure 2.25 directly on the syringe but i have try to weight few time what i have pull with 2,25 and its not really precise, so thats why i would like to be as precise as possible to not have any discomfort but anyway i have discomfort so. . .

 

I can't wait for it to be over, I sincerely hope that everything will return to normal and all these side effects or WD symptoms will go away, especially the DR symptoms

 

Sometimes I really can't take it anymore i really want to give up but my daughter makes me hold, my wife makes me hold i do it for her i want to be a normal person to their eyes...

 

[Chaos9211]

6 hours ago, baronvontito said:

Tablet form : 10mg until the 18 of March

Liquid form : 9mg debut the 19 of March

Ok this is what was being pointed out in the last comment from Lotus, u see 10 mg of tablet is not equal to 10 mg of liquid (for some people atleast) this can be due to different manufacturer or just how the body metabolizes the active ingredient. Hence when switching from one form (tablet) to another form(liquid) a slow transition can help

 

Day 1 75% tablet 25% liquid

Day 4 50%           50%

Day 8 25%           75%

Day 12 100% liquid

 

Please note above transition rate is just example, different people may tolerate different speed of transition. I have used 4 day principle as a guesstimate for blood plasma concentration achievement. 

 

Now in your case you have switched from tablet to liquid and at the same time reduced dose by 10%. Maybe these two changes are a bit much for you.

 

What do you do now is really based on how bad your symptoms are for you. If it were me I may attempt atleast to restore to 10mg (liquid) and hold there for atleast 3 to 4 weeks to understand if my body can adjust to liquid dosing before resuming taper.  

More conservative approach could be 5mg(tablet) 5mg(liquid) for sometime till stability.

 

Thats just my opinion but you are best judge based on your symptoms.

 

Please do consider keeping a journal / diary as mentioned on the previous links, this will help mods (and yourself) to get a true picture of your symptoms over 3 to 4 days.

 

And lastly, for future you can always try 5% decrease instead of 10%. To reduce WD effects. Or lookup Brassmonkey's slide method in search.

 

Hope things get better soon for you.

[baronvontito]

18 hours ago, Chaos9211 said:

Ok this is what was being pointed out in the last comment from Lotus, u see 10 mg of tablet is not equal to 10 mg of liquid (for some people atleast) this can be due to different manufacturer or just how the body metabolizes the active ingredient. Hence when switching from one form (tablet) to another form(liquid) a slow transition can help

 

Day 1 75% tablet 25% liquid

Day 4 50%           50%

Day 8 25%           75%

Day 12 100% liquid

 

Please note above transition rate is just example, different people may tolerate different speed of transition. I have used 4 day principle as a guesstimate for blood plasma concentration achievement. 

 

Now in your case you have switched from tablet to liquid and at the same time reduced dose by 10%. Maybe these two changes are a bit much for you.

 

What do you do now is really based on how bad your symptoms are for you. If it were me I may attempt atleast to restore to 10mg (liquid) and hold there for atleast 3 to 4 weeks to understand if my body can adjust to liquid dosing before resuming taper.  

More conservative approach could be 5mg(tablet) 5mg(liquid) for sometime till stability.

 

Thats just my opinion but you are best judge based on your symptoms.

 

Please do consider keeping a journal / diary as mentioned on the previous links, this will help mods (and yourself) to get a true picture of your symptoms over 3 to 4 days.

 

And lastly, for future you can always try 5% decrease instead of 10%. To reduce WD effects. Or lookup Brassmonkey's slide method in search.

 

Hope things get better soon for you.

Hi @Chaos9211

 

With hindsight, i admit that its logic that a form change and a dose change at the same time don't mix well.

 

So my strategy is :

 

1) I will give me time and continue with the dose of 9mg/2,25ml few days or weeks.

 

2) if i don't have any improvements or worsen symptoms i will be back to 10mg/2,5ml and hold few days or weeks.

 

3) if still any improvement or worsen symptoms, i will be back to tablet and hold few days or weeks and begin your approach 5/5 or the crossover taper tablet to liquid

 

I have actually a journal with column with THE DAYS / THE DOSAGE / THE FEELING and i write all the feeling/symptom of the day,

 

I appreciate your support

 

Have an excellent day