☼ Hello. mammaP checking in!

[Wolfhound]

Mammap, i feel somewhat deeply ashamed. Would you forgive my asking please? I am truly sorry that my question about the length of your problems brought these painful memories, insomnia and general feeling unwell.

i wish i never asked. I am crying for you. I will never do the same mistake i truly do not want to bring someone into trouble.

sincere apologies wolfhound

[bubble]

Dear Wolfhound, I m sure MammaP will reassure you soon but we are in general not responsible for other people's actions and consequently their feelings.

 

If MammaP thought it was too upsetting for her, she wouldn't have shared the story but she decided to do it and I'm sure that she found it to be very therapeutic. The accompanying bad feelings were probably a part of a cleansing process and getting rid off the old junk.

 

The fact that she was able to take this walk down the awful memory lane shows how much stronger she has become.

 

And this story resonates with so many of us. For me the most significant part is about people who don't know me or remember what I was like before my breakdown...

 

I am happy for you Wolfhound that you are here with us so that we won't allow doctors to mess up with you any more than they did and give you all the support you need.

 

And MammaP, sorry or speaking on your behalf

 

big hug to both!

 

bubble

[Altostrata]

mammaP, you are a brave and loving woman. Thank you for being here with us.

[mammaP]

Wow thanks you everyone, I wasn't expecting so many responses! 

 

 

Mammap, i feel somewhat deeply ashamed. Would you forgive my asking please? I am truly sorry that my question about the length of your problems brought these painful memories, insomnia and general feeling unwell.
i wish i never asked. I am crying for you. I will never do the same mistake i truly do not want to bring someone into trouble.
sincere apologies wolfhound

Apologies not necessary Wolfhound. You are suffering badly and need reassurance that it will end. If my story helps anyone

then it has to be worth telling.  I was exhausted today with all the socialising and not sleeping well, and would have been the same

even if I hadn't written that post!  Please don't be sorry.  It brought back some memories and actually strengthened what I know,

and that is that all my mental health problems were iatrogenic. ( I love that word and do you know, doctors look up and listen when I

use it! ) I suffered a lot of abuse in my life but that could have been dealt with by therapy, not drugs. Doctors are supposed to heal,

not harm.  

 

Today I felt terrible, exhausted, restless, and almost ready to give up but reliving all that reminded me that this is withdrawal and 

will be over. I can see an end to it and feel the end getting closer.  For years I felt physically ill and thought there was something

seriously wrong. Some nights I thought I wouldn't wake up. But I am still here and even though I feel at rock bottom some days, it

is still much better than I have been for years! 

 

I went to bed this afternoon and slept, it's amazing the difference a couple of hours sleep can make. 

Thank you everyone, all your hugs are very much appreciated. Mamma hugs back at ya 

[Sweetcreature]

Sending you hugs also MammaP, you are a lioness!!

[Meimeiquest]

Dear MammaP,mInhadn't read your thread for several days...all I can say is Wow! You are an example to is all...especially the ones suffering losses, insomnia, and suicidal ideations.

 

This is less important, but maybe the reason you are waking up after ninety minutes of sleep is that it is the length of a typical sleep cycle in early sleep. You get back to light sleep, then wake up instead of heading back down for another go.

 

Your talk of kefir and fibro and problems taking drugs that affect certain neurotransmitters makes me think of problems with methylation. You have enough on your plate right now besides that, but taking 50 to 100mg of slow-release niacin, along with magnesium glycinate might help your sleep. When you feel up to it, you could check out the thread Alto started on "the importance of methylation and B vitamins."

 

Lastly, you were the one who caught my issues with a beta-blocker. For me, it is a taper that is easier to control, but if it goes off, it causes me an anxiety that is like a panic almost....worse to me than benzo anxiety.

 

Thanks again for all you contribute to this group! I do hope you're feeling better soon, and that you will have wisdom about the move

[mammaP]

Thank you for the hugs SC, a lioness? I can certainly growl like one!   Thankfully I can purr like one too now 

 

Meime thank you for your post, you have just confirmed what I thought, that holding on the beta blocker is the right thing

for now. That anxiety was different to the usual anxiety.  I looked at the methylation topic but to be honest my brain just

couldn't take it in, it was like reading a foreign language   So you think niacin might help? I will give it a try. I had 

read something about sleep cycles and 90 minutes a long time ago but couldn't remember what. Sometimes I read

so much and forget most of it instantly! I take magnesium glycinate with D3, it was all I could get locally,

 

On Friday I went out to lunch with friends and had 2 chocolate biscuits. I felt quite ill yesterday and remembered the

biscuits today. Last time I went there they gave me chocolate and I was ill the day after that too! (Not blaming them, I 

opened my mouth and swallowed them! ) I gave up sweet things when I started the candida diet and I soon feel it if

I slip up and give in when offered sweet stuff. The chocolate was quite dramatic though! 

[mammaP]

Yesterday I couldn't find any atenolol. (beta blocker for blood pressure), should have had a

strip left and think I must have left it at the hotel when I went away. By  bedtime I felt really ill

and had to put a bucket by the bed I felt so sick. Dizzy, headache and couldn't see properly.

BP was fine!!  It's been an awful day and I've stayed in bed except to get up for food and the

loo. I ordered more and can get them tomorrow, couldn't even get dressed today to go for them! 

 

I am shocked at the withdrawal, I tapered from 50 to 25 and decided to hold. I feel much better

now but still feel sick and tired. Slept most of the day which is actually good. I will be back in bed

shortly and hopefully sleep some more. 

 

And my blood pressure is fine, in fact slightly lower than usual. The doctor did tell me it wasn't

working and now I'm wondering if it was actually keeping it high, it is usually on the higher side 

of normal, now it's spot on normal, Heart rate normal too  I will get more tomorrow, don't want to

risk  feeling like I did last night, it was awful  .

[Nikki]

Mamap I had no idea that stopping a beta blocker could cause issues.  I have taken propranolol on occasion.  5 or 10mgs.

 

Wow....

 

I too notice that chocolate can be bothersome.  For me it is the drop in blood sugar...  Why is it the things we love like chocolate can be soooooooooo bad

[Petunia]

I just caught up with your thread MammaP.  Thank you for sharing your painful story, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to endure everything you have.  I hope that writing about it all has brought more clarity, it sounds like it may have triggered some old emotions and maybe that's part of why you felt so ill for a couple of days.

 

The more stories I read about the circumstances of people's lives, the more obvious it becomes that none of us ever had broken brains, or chemical imbalances.  Its our lives which were out of balance and its our society which is broken.

 

Thank you for being who you are and for being here.  I'm glad you are feeling a little better, with more rest, hopefully you will feel a lot better.

[mammaP]

Thanks Petu. Thinking back to those times made me feel some of those feelings again. I don't think I 

actually realised just HOW ill the treatment made me. I was so very ill and wouldn't ever want anyone to

go through it! I do believe that it is by the grace of God that I am here to tell that story, 

 

When I get real bad waves I feel the same feelings and the same strong urge to die and be free of the

suffering but now I know what is causing it. Back then I had no idea it was medication and really believed

the chemical imbalance thing.  I am so grateful to this site for giving me the insight into what was the real

problem and the hope that in time I will be free of the toxic drugs that have made me ill for 20 years. 

 

Today has been one of those days that will be wiped from the calendar.  Went to bed last night at 12, woke

up at 2, laid awake till after 4, finally dropped off and woke at 5.30. Up for coffee, back to bed. Up for shower,

back to bed and that is how today has gone, up and down, in and out. The good bit is that every time I went

back to bed I slept for an hour. I am still tired and think I will sleep tonight, for a couple of hours anyway. Then

tomorrow should be feeling much better if things go as usual. 

 

I found my atenolol, right where I left it beside the bed  .  So I only missed one dose and won't be missing

another in a hurry! 

[btdt]

I am constantly gobsmacked at how much we have in common.  Treating craziness brought on by drugs with more drugs and finding out the truth years later is just one more thing.  

I am curious if you have had your Vit D and Vit K checked this year? 

 

I have those days where bed is the best place for me and if I am lucky sleep will come as a respite just take it as it comes till it passes.  Rest now when you can and I again wish you peace. 

B 

[mammaP]

COFFEE! For a while now I've been feeling terrible and blaming it on stress or withdrawal, lack of sleep etc.

It's probably a combination but the last few days have become worse and worse. Yesterday I felt really ill and

thought I was either in the throes of horrific withdrawal or and infection. Abdo pain, tingling, vertigo, nausea 

so bad I was almost fainting and had to go to bed. 

 

Last night I slept for 3 hours, and 2 hours in the afternoon.  This morning I felt so much better. It was 6,30 am

and I actually felt awake and ready to start the day, a minor miracle for me! I poured my coffee, I only have that

1 cup each day to wake me up.  I felt it wash over me, by 8am I had it all, nausea, tingling, like

prickly heat, vertigo and feeling faint.  abdo pain. It is a relief actually to pinpoint it. I was worried that I was going

to be floored by withdrawal despite careful tapering.  Why I've suddenly started to react like this is a mystery but

won't miss coffee.  Of course I could be jumping the gun a bit and it might not be that at all but it sure feels like it.

Going back to bed again until it passes. Needless to say I'll be avoiding coffee in future!

 

 

I am constantly gobsmacked at how much we have in common.  Treating craziness brought on by drugs with more drugs and finding out the truth years later is just one more thing.  

I am curious if you have had your Vit D and Vit K checked this year? 

 

I have those days where bed is the best place for me and if I am lucky sleep will come as a respite just take it as it comes till it passes.  Rest now when you can and I again wish you peace. 

B 

 I haven't had any vits checked for 2 years. It isn't done here! Last time I was seriously ill in hospital, ditto the time before that. Never had them checked at routine

checks OR any time in the psych wards now you mention it!

[Hope73]

Hello Mamma,

I'm so sorry for what you have to suffer (after your answer to me I hoped and believed you're much more better with all these things)!

 

Just an edit from me: some years ago, I think about 3, I quitted coffee (that one with coffein - i just drink some milk light capucchino with just a little little bit) ,

after I noticed it was causing racing heart, hypertension, tremor, nausea, anxiety and such an ugly feelings some hours after drinking one to me...

 

All the best for you!

Sincerely, 'Elli'

[mammaP]

Than you for your comment Elli, it is good of you to look at my thread. I am in the same situation

as every one else and trying to get off the anti depressant. I am nearly there but it has been a 

struggle sometimes. I found this site after I tapered too fast. I wish I had found it earlier! Now I

try and help others to avoid the mistakes I made. 

 

I have now quit coffee and don't think I should have much trouble with caffeine withdrawal when it

was only one cup a day. 

[EternalOptimist]

Hi, MP, u wrote u tapered too fast. Did u eventually stabilize or go back up?

Sorry, Not up to reading much online.

Congrats for being " nearly there".

 

Best

EO

[mammaP]

Hi, MP, u wrote u tapered too fast. Did u eventually stabilize or go back up?

Sorry, Not up to reading much online.

Congrats for being " nearly there".

 

Best

EO

I tapered for about a year from 37.5 effexor and stopped at 5 beads. Hit by withdrawal and reinstated after a month off.

Took 7 months to stabilise and in that time had some bad waves but good windows too.   Cut by 1 bead 3 months ago

and still not stabilised but coping. I am not in the same hell I was before. The biggest problem is insomnia but have been

sleeping lots the last few days so that is great because I always feel better after a few days of good sleep. It isn't consistent

and only 3hours max at night and 2 hours or so in the daytime but was getting very little sleep for a while. It does get better,

one day you realise that you have been doing more than you were. It's good to look back at your posts too and see how 

much you have improved, even when it feels like you are still as bad as ever! 

[EternalOptimist]

Wow!  What a journey.  Thanks for answering my question.  Not what I wanted to hear!  LOL

Sorry you had to go thru such heck.  

That must have been quite an endeavor to count beads.  

So I'm even more confused now.  I don't know how much time on a med has to do with w/d sx, difficulty, etc.

I keep thinking I've only been on this med since Dec. 23, 2013 yet really struggling.  Should I go slower, faster ... yet 

 don't ever feel stable, whatever that means.  I don't know how quickly the brain adapts, esp if already been thru a heckofa 

benzo w/d.  argh

[Petunia]

COFFEE!

 

I almost mentioned this when I read a recent post of yours saying you were drinking coffee.  But I held my virtual tongue, thinking you meant decaff or that you probably know your body well enough to know how much caffeine you can tolerate, but it did surprise me to think you might be using caffeine when so many of us have a problem with it.

 

I was drinking one cup of weak tea in the afternoon, but gave that up and experienced a few headaches for a couple of days, so you may get some withdrawal from one morning cup of coffee.

[EternalOptimist]

What does "Hot " mean on this site?

[btdt]

Mamma I replace coffee with ovulteen not sure if you can get it where you live I could not tolerate any for a long time over a year for me it was instant.  

Vitamin D cause anxiety rather quickly and it builds the more days I take it getting to insomnia in three days of taking 400mg a day.  I had my vit D check after I broke my foot and it was low but could not tolerate the supplements.  I talked about it on here once but it has been moved to a thread about vit K2 I just had my D checked again here I had to ask for it this time.  Again it is still low and she suggested thru the receptionist I take 1000 mg a day she does not know my histroy with vit D so I will go in and talk to her about it next wk.  In the vit K2 thread a person there says she has seen these reactions to D before and that I need to start with a low dose and go up gradually. 

 

I do my own testing and I know for sure due to countless attempts to take D it keeps me awake and causes anxiety for me.  I also know when I quit coffee I felt better I would try it every few months and the affects were immediate for me so I knew not to drink it... eventually tho the effects were not so immediate so I would sip it and only have part of a cup as the effects seemed a bit delayed.  Tea was a no go for me too. 

 

Hope today is better. 

[mammaP]

Tired out again today and my brain won't work! I've been having that 1 cup of coffee in the mornings for years 

and never noticed any negative effect from it. I just didn't fancy coffee any other time but loved that one in the

morning. Fresh coffee not instant, loved it!  It seems to be recent that I've been affected but can't put my finger

on when. Yesterday it was so obvious, I felt really ill and could feel it coming over me, it was like I had taken a 

drug of some kind, like many meds I've had from the doctor and only taken once! 

 

Didn't have coffee this morning just ginger and lemon tea made with fresh ginger and lemons. I have been 'spaced'

all day so maybe that is withdrawal, no major headache yet.  Last week I had chocolate biscuits at my friends' and 

they affected me quite badly too.  Maybe it is because I've been changing my eating habits and my body isn't accepting

the junk any more! My 'pregnant' looking tummy has gone and my gut is healthier so it is worth it. 

 

I'm feeling stress right now, when I was at the hospital 2 weeks ago they said there is possible infection in my bone, and I've

got my appointment for arthroscopy and biopsy next Tuesday. I am really worried about that and dreading it. It's good that

it is soon, last time they said that I waited months but I'm really worried and trying not to dwell on it. 

I can't think straight and getting muddled with everything. I actually feel like I did before starting to taper but think it's probably stress.

There is always something to worry about ! 

[mammaP]

What does "Hot " mean on this site?

Hot is when there are over a certain number of replies to a topic, can't remember how many, makes it a 'hot' topic

[mattinsmom]

Just checking in. I hope that the coffee is the culprit and that by removing it you'll feel better. I, too, am having weird reactions to foods that I have eaten forever! And I have hot flashes back. I haven't found the trigger for those yet. I just realized they are getting really frequent, comparatively speaking. 

 

I'm sure the stress of Tuesday is still in the mix of things for you. Prayers are with you.

[Rhiannon]

Maybe you could drink decaf...?

 

I was very moved by your story, thank you for telling it. It reminds me of my own, except I had less time in hospitals and no ECT, but that's probably because I'm US and so no healthcare to speak of.  So much suffering, so many losses...my own baby girl who was 2 when I started and grew up without ever knowing her mother, that is the greatest heartbreak of all for me, I was so unavailable to her. I am so so sorry you went through all of that. Thank you for sharing it, I feel less alone in my own losses now. And you're so upbeat and inspiring, and you do such great work on this forum, thank you.

 

Huge hugs to you, all the way across the Atlantic!

[btdt]

'I'm feeling stress right now, when I was at the hospital 2 weeks ago they said there is possible infection in my bone, and I've

got my appointment for arthroscopy and biopsy next Tuesday. I am really worried about that and dreading it.   It's good that

it is soon, last time they said that I waited months but I'm really worried and trying not to dwell on it. 

I can't think straight and getting muddled with everything. I actually feel like I did before starting to taper but think it's probably stress.

There is always something to worry about ! '

I just had pancreatitis spell check can't spell it either I guess ... and I still have pain be it the old rib injury the liver tests are still high for liver... the wk I had the blood work that showed the pancreas issue I was muddled still am off and on.  Have other issues too with sleep ect.  If you do indeed have an infection in this bone it could be part of what is causing these symptoms.  It is good to have things checked just in case is what I am learning the hard way.  There is not much you can do about it except harm reduction as in laying off coffee ect if you think it is a problem.  There is nothing you can do about the infection if there is one until Tues  you have done all you can till then so for now take good care and try to relax using all the tools you have.  I hope things go well on Tues. A lot of other things come up if withdrawal is long and while we may feel it is time for life to give us a break life I am sure you found it does not work that way:)

peace 

[mammaP]

Thank you everyone, I am not feeling much from cutting out the coffee, don't think so anyway

but it's hard to tell. It isn't just the caffeine, even decaf can make me feel ill.

I've been okay with just one cup but if I have more than 1 I feel it, or felt it. I remember when 

the kids were small they told me that coffee made me sneeze! I hadn't picked up on it but had

allergic rhinitis for a long time. It went away when we moved by the sea. It's back now though

so shouldn't be surprised about the coffee thing.  I am a bit hacked off with it all today, grumpy

old lady, lol. Can't eat this, can't drink that, can't just chuck the drugs in the bin and walk away!

 

Box of choccies and a cola in front of a movie would be fine thank you very much. IF it didn't make 

me so darn sick.   

 

Apologies for the wee rant, it's over now 

 

I am worried about the bone infection because it could mean months in hospital, major surgery 

and all the associated drugs. They keep telling me this, then backtracking then dumping it on me again. 

I don't feel at all well, if only it was as simple as a weeks antibiotics to feel better I'd be happy.  Or it could

be withdrawal, in which case I would consider updosing slightly.  *Sighs* 

 

What will be, will be,  just have to wait and see, just hope they don't take months to tell me what is the problem. 

Going for a coffee with my neighbour later, that will be nice, might put me in a better mood 

 

OOPS, not coffee, 

[Altostrata]

Oh, mammaP, sending healing thoughts your way.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

And some from me too! I always look for your posts and wish you well every day. Hope your coffee-less date went well!

[Meimeiquest]

Keep us posted...I'm sure you will be so glad when Tuesday is over. One way or another, we hope you feel better soon!

[mammaP]

Thank you again everyone, it means a lot that you all send hugs my way and I feel every one of them 

 

The coffee free date went fine, my neighbour is in her late 70s and can't get to grips with the internet but

wanted to do online banking so I helped her to set it up on her ipad. She is delighted now that she can

just tap the screen and see her bank details.  

 

We met many moons ago in the psych hospital and she asked how I am doing and if I was still on meds .

Then followed a discussion of drugs and withdrawal, just can't keep it shut  . She got quite annoyed with me

and told me that I imagine withdrawal, it must be psychological and that I am so scared of coming off the drugs

that I imagine the withdrawal to stay on them! I kept very calm and explained some things, and that withdrawal

is physical not depression returning. She got that in the end and said that she would never come off hers because

she WOULD be scared of depression returning. I didn't  try to tell her otherwise, she feels fine, is very active and 

has no desire to quit. She actually had brain surgery for depression, they removed part of her skull to do it  .

 

It was good to talk to someone who knew about drugs and depression,( once she understood what I was talking about )

And I avoided the coffee and chocolate biscuits   . 

 

I will be glad when Tuesday is over, a lot hangs on the results of those tests and scans. If I need hospital I shall be moving

pronto so I can be treated at the hospital near my daughter which has a specialist bone infection unit which is the only one

in the UK. I'm going to be moving whatever the outcome but would be spring or summer before I do if the tests are ok. 

 

If it is infection they will have to remove both hip and knee prosthetic joints, pack the femur with antibiotic filling, and have IV 

antibiotics for 6 weeks. I would have to stay in for 3 months, then they would remove the packing and replace the joints again.

Not how I would like to spend the spring and summer!  I keep telling myself they have got it wrong....again.... but one day

they'll get it right  . 

[btdt]

My Mamma that is a long healing process to go through and while I hope you don't need to do it if you do need to do it maybe starting now would see you feeling better by the summer.  I had surgery last year and believe me when I say I agonized over having it because of the drugs but it was one of those very apparent needs not something that would be questionable on any level.  I looked at the long term implications and they were not good so really there was no choice. 

I know our situations are different completely different maybe but the one things I think is the same is the worry about the drugs.  I have reacted to so many since this started I was sure I would end up in trouble at some point with the surgery and drugs.  Nothing happened not one thing sure I may have been a bit sketchy on the pain pills but really considering all the crap withdrawal can bring it was not that bad at all.  

Whatever comes I hope you can keep your computer to have an outlet to voice your feelings as I think it may be helpful.I wish you all the luck in the world.  peace me. 

[EternalOptimist]

MP, U r in my thoughts and prayers. U r quite the trooper as are many on here.

EO

[mammaP]

Bt, maybe I will write a blog if I go in, and take photos. Maybe they'll take more care  . 

Most of the staff do a brilliant job, it's just my history is complicated, all my surgeries

have been complicated and spread between 3 different hospitals that don't communicate. 

 

 

I went for a walk this afternoon, and called at the cafe for tea and cake. The sun was shining

and the birds were singing. It's been a lovely day and my spirits are lifted. 

Now I am going to make a necklace for my neighbour, she commissioned it for her daughter,

it will be a distraction. 

 

Thank you EO, I hope you are feeing ok today. 

[EternalOptimist]

I went for a walk this afternoon, and called at the cafe for tea and cake. The sun was shining

and the birds were singing. It's been a lovely day and my spirits are lifted. 

Now I am going to make a necklace for my neighbour, she commissioned it for her daughter,

it will be a distraction.  

 

Wow, MP, in spite or your situation, you wrote this report and sound lifted.  How wonderful is that? 

Good luck with making that necklace and the distraction it provides.  

EO

[mammaP]

Today was the day I was dreading, hospital for tests/scans.  I refused the test and had a long 

discussion with the doctor who understood me and agreed that we shouldn't do it. 

When I arrived I asked what the test was and what they hoped to find out from it.

At my last appointment 2-3  weeks ago they said x-rays showed lesions that were consistent

with infection in the bone. ( Previous scans had also pointed to infection but were never followed up.

the new lesions are in a different part of the same bone.) I understood the test was a biopsy and 

a scan with contrast dye injected into the joints. 

 

When I asked for details the doctor told me that she was instructed to use the dye to check for loosening

of the artificial hip joint, no mention of infections!  I explained to her everything that has happened and

she looked at all my previous scans and x rays.  Then agreed that the test that was ordered was not

necessary, I already had that one and she couldn't understand why it was ordered. 

 

She is going to talk to the consultant and call me back to tell me what they want to do. She will fit me in at

short notice if they want to order more tests. It was a junior doctor that ordered it not the consultant. 

So I'm not in more pain, because I didn't go through with it. I am very pleased with myself for being assertive

and questioning what they were doing. I usually just go along with whatever they say because they are doctors.

Now I don't hold them in awe and don't trust their judgement.  I wonder why that is 

 

On the withdrawal side I have felt much better the last 2 days, completely different. A window has opened and I

didn't even get stressed today  . The weekend was very low and I was very grumpy and tired, sick of it all

and then just like that (snaps fingers) the wave has settled and the window has opened. That wave seemed to go

on for such a long time, about 2 months, I hope the window stays open that long