Sunnydays0912: scared to taper from Lexapro and Seroquel. Help!

[sunnydays0912]

I am apart of some on Facebook already, but I really need to make real person connections. It's just tough cause I'm in need of a real, supportive, trustworthy friend who I can count on through this process. And something like that takes time. I really wish the one friend I have out here was more interested in spending time with me. I'm always the one engaging her with texts or visits to her home (she lives right by me). I realized this lately. She never asks me to hang out or do anything. It's always me. She's one of those lucky ones who found her BFF in her husband, so they are always together and doing things.

 

I can't wait to move home.

[sunnydays0912]

Ok so I just noticed something. I forgot to mention my pdoc did write a prescription for me to start taking for my "underlying bipolar", a mood stabilizer called Keppra. I guess it's actually a anticonvulsant but has major success in treating bipolar.

 

I never mentioned this because I never even gave it a second thought. I did have a few days where I wondered if it was true, but didn't even look at the script once I put it down. I just did (promise it was because I was going to throw it away lol) and I read the name again and remembered something I had read a few weeks ago about keppra and other anticonvulsants.

 

I have this fleeting memory of reading that anticonvulsants are often prescribed to help ease AD WD.

 

I'm definitely assuming this is not at all advised by this website, but I'm curious why and how this medication would help? And of course, why not to take it, aside from the obvious reasons of adding more to polydruging (sp?) and possible adverse affects from a sensitized NS.

 

My pdoc said this med. won't affect my neurotransmitters at all, so not to worry about any activation. It affects the receptors. But how?

[sunnydays0912]

Ok, I have everything needed to make my liquid Prozac finally so I'll be making it tonight and take my first 10% drop in the morning!!

[Altostrata]

Keppra is an anti-seizure drug. Like most of them, it tends to make people dopey.

 

If I were you, I'd try reducing the Prozac dosage to see if perhaps that's what's stimulating. Why add a drug if you can solve the problem by reducing one?

[sunnydays0912]

You bring up another concern I have. You says Prozac could be too stimulating, hence the tic, but it's never caused any stimulation symptoms like I've experienced before (anxiety, agitation, akathisia) except for when I stopped taking the last 5mg of lexapro without replacing it with any Prozac like I had until then.

 

My main issues since the bridge is waves of depression, demotivation, and inability to react to panic-endusing situations, aka just not caring about if or when something bad happens. I guess the whole emotional blunting thing.

 

So I'm concerned lowering the dose may cause more demotivation, more depression, less energy, less responsiveness, etc. and I'm not saying I think that's how I think my normal self is/will be, but I think that's just how my brain is adjusted right now because of the meds so WD may be worsening of these symptoms...which would suck. But this is just my total amateur thought process so I have no idea if that is going to be the case at all.

 

I'm really hoping the symptoms I'm experiencing are CAUSED by Prozac because of my receptors being worn out (again, total amateur assumption) and maybe slowly removing Prozac will allow me to feel better.

 

Am I way off with how this usually goes? I'm still trying to understand how this all works!

[sunnydays0912]

Oh btw, I wasn't asking if I should try the keppra, I'm mostly just curious how it works. Most everything I ask is out of curiosity because I'm trying to learn all I can. Knowledge is power in recovery lol.

[Petunia]

Ok, I have everything needed to make my liquid Prozac finally so I'll be making it tonight and take my first 10% drop in the morning!!

 

I'm happy to hear this, a 10% drop is usually very well tolerated, I'm sure you will be ok.  If you do experience some symptoms, they should settle down in a few weeks.  You may actually start to feel better as you lower your dose.

[sunnydays0912]

 

Ok, I have everything needed to make my liquid Prozac finally so I'll be making it tonight and take my first 10% drop in the morning!!

 

 

I'm happy to hear this, a 10% drop is usually very well tolerated, I'm sure you will be ok.  If you do experience some symptoms, they should settle down in a few weeks.  You may actually start to feel better as you lower your dose.

I hope so, Petu! I have this hope that all my problems I've been having post-poopout are simply just adverse reactions trying to tell me I can't handle these drugs anymore and I need to be off. And by doing so, slowly, I may begin to feel like myself again all on my own. That would be amazing!!!

[mammaP]

Hi Sunny, I agree with Petu and think that you could feel much better as you lower the dose of prozac, 

I felt better and better as I lowered my dose of effexor.  I also agree with you that your problems are 

most likely caused by the drugs one way or another. Once you get off them all you can start to feel

more like yourself. You can never go back to where you were because time has passed  but you will

be  wiser, and have knowledge that you can deal with things without medication. As you said,

knowledge is power! . 

[sunnydays0912]

This is the first time I've had a chance to get on today, but I'm at my pdocs office about to go in fr a follow up of starting that new drug I never took. I'm going to tell him I'm slowly tapering and going to give myself a real chance at taking control of my life. I'm nervous but determined.

[Meimeiquest]

You go!

[sunnydays0912]

Wow...it went surprisingly well! Aside from his quick diagnoses, he really is a understanding doctor. I told him (and his NP he works with) about my wishes to come off Prozac and give myself a chance to handle life on my own. Oh, and that I never took the keppra because of this same reasoning. He said that because I seem to have stabilized more since seeing me last, he agrees I should at least come down to 20mg. He thinks 40mg is too high a dose and causing me side effects (emotional blunting, tic, etc) so coming down may be exactly what I need. And if at 20mg I notice a positive difference, then we will continue tapering it down.

 

He said it's very common for Prozac to cause more harm if the dose is too high. So he sounded confident coming down, and then coming off may be the best option. He also mentioned if any symptoms do show up, he thinks a low dose of Keppra would "do the trick", but definitely wants to see how I do off Prozac first.

 

I told him how I know I am sensitive to WD, so I would like to do a very slow taper. He said I should be fine to go down to 30 and hold for 2 weeks, then down to 20. But he also said if I feel I need to go slower than that, then go as I feel comfortable with.

 

I even mentioned getting liquid Prozac but he said that because of my reaction to manufacture change last time, he thinks I should stick with the capsules and also make note of the manufacturer and only order from pharmacies who have it in stock.

 

He's very nice. And I really don't get the sense he wants to just throw meds at me at all. So this is good, yes??

[sunnydays0912]

Hi Sunny, I agree with Petu and think that you could feel much better as you lower the dose of prozac,

I felt better and better as I lowered my dose of effexor. I also agree with you that your problems are

most likely caused by the drugs one way or another. Once you get off them all you can start to feel

more like yourself. You can never go back to where you were because time has passed but you will

be wiser, and have knowledge that you can deal with things without medication. As you said,

knowledge is power! .

Thank you, mammaP! I often think back to your story and what you've told me in the past about feeling better as you tapered and it gives me great hope

[sunnydays0912]

Ok so yesterday I did my first 10% drop in 1:1 water and Prozac. 1mg for 1mL. It was the most bitter, disgusting thing I've ever had to take! I now understand why people use cranberry juice, but I also hate cranberry juice lol.

 

So this morning I made the quick decision to use orange soda. And it was definitely easier to take, but was wondering if mixing it with carbonation is bad? I know water is probably best, but my god, it's torture....even with a chaser.

[Altostrata]

Sunny, I am so proud of you that you've taken charge of your care. Brilliantly done!

 

I am also happy to hear the psychiatrist is willing to cooperate with you. You do realize that he doesn't know anything about diagnosis -- a month ago you were bipolar, now he agrees Prozac may be causing your symptoms. He's a very ordinary psychiatrist in that regard.

 

I would not put Prozac in orange soda, the combination may be unpredictable. How about having some orange soda handy to follow your homemade Prozac liquid?

[sunnydays0912]

lol Alto I did kind of notice that. And I don't think he's taken back the possible underlying bipolar diagnoses yet. From the start he said if it is bipolar, it's a milder form that only shows up with manipulation, which to me adverse affects makes way more sense now that I've learned more. But that's why he thinks the lower dose of Keppra would be better. Without ever saying what he plans to do with the Prozac, I did get the sense he didn't like me ever being on it and was upset my previous GP switched me to it plus had plans to keep trying different antipsychotics until we found one that "helped". After the Hell I experienced with Seroquel, there was NO WAY I was going to let him put me on more antipsychotics. So I'm so glad I never went back to that doctor.

 

But yeah, he seems to still hold to a diagnoses rather than adverse affect, so I know to be cautious with him. BUT he's very kind, understanding, and doesn't want to throw meds at me, in fact wants to see how info without it. I left his office wanting to skip just from the joy I felt over his agreement with me. I totally thought I'd have to argue my point lol.

[Meimeiquest]

You're making me smile .

[sunnydays0912]

You're making me smile .

:) :)

[sunnydays0912]

So I shouldn't feel any different/WD shouldn't show itself until at least a week from yesterday, right? Because of it having such a long half life? I'm just making sure cause I've been feeling a bit more down the last few hours than usual and my anxiety is trying to tell me it's WD already which leads my thinking immediately to "omg this isn't going to work I'm already going to fail".

 

I'm trying to use facts to keep me from overreacting, like the fact my body hasn't even registered a lower dose yet because of such a long half life.

 

I hate anxiety.

[sunnydays0912]

Oh, is it ok to make a drastic diet change during Tapering and WD? My husband thinks we should both go on a juicing cleanse, which neither of us have ever done, but he thinks it will benefit me to remove all the toxins in my body and feed it well. But I think I read in Petu's thread that a change like that may be too much on a highly sensitized NS. Thoughts? Because I would like to do that if if will help. I don't follow the healthiest diet as of late unfortunately.

[Petunia]

I'm trying to use facts to keep me from overreacting, like the fact my body hasn't even registered a lower dose yet because of such a long half life.

This is really good, anxiety tends to make us think the worst, makes us believe thoughts which aren't true, so challenging your false thoughts with logic is an excellent way to stay on track.

 

You might not feel any withdrawal symptoms at all, just the regular ups and downs you have been feeling.  Its normal to feel some anxiety in life and different levels of energy and motivation throughout a day.

 

You will do just fine Sunny, its impossible to fail, the only time a person fails is when they stop trying.

 

Its not a good idea to do a detox while in withdrawal, the nervous system doesn't need any more stress.  But adopting a nutrient rich diet, organic if possible, with plenty of protein, fresh fruits and vegetables can help the body to heal.  Many people find that cutting out sugar, caffeine, processed foods and of course alcohol helps.

 

Everyone is different and some people find that certain foods make them more symptomatic, so its good if you can pay attention to your own body and how it reacts.  There are a lot of threads related to food and diets in this link here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/

 

But my suggestion is to keep it simple and as healthy as possible without causing more stress for yourself.

[bubble]

 

You're making me smile .

:) :)

 

 

Me too!!!

 

you have made a giant leap in your thinking which is very, very hard and takes a lot of time but you did it! and I'm so happy for you.

 

PLus you started reading threads of other people I'm not much of an expert but read the ame thing as you: WD makes us extra sensitive and it's not a good time to experiment, even with healthy things and those that made us feel better before. 

 

I see somebody already replied as I'm writing

 

What tehy usually say, you can give it a try but go very slow and if it backfirs you will know what is happening and will just stop. If we go slow and easy, we stay in control and can react quickly to prevent any damage.

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Sunny, It is so great that your husband is expressing an interest in working with you towards natural healing. That's been an issue at our house. I would try to incorporate his ideas as possible just for the sake of nurturing your marriage. That said, I tried a juice fast once in a hard part of my Wellbutrin taper...I was sort of manic by noon. But I have done some more modest juicing with good results. I started with a cup a day, and by lack of organization skipped frequently. Probably the most I've ever done is three cups a day. I eat liver twice a week usually...I've finally stopped gagging.

 

I don't know at all what is at the root of your troubles, but I think methylation is somehow connected to mine. I got a little e-article for about a dollar off Amazon that is a good starting point. It is entitled MTHFR Basics. But the entire methylation cycle involves other genes as well...by how my brain acts I think I might have some issues with the enzyme that breaks down some neurotransmitters. It's hard to know. Did I already tell you about the thread here on methylation and B vitamins?

[Altostrata]

sunny, I think your next challenge is to learn to manage your health anxiety. Please see discussions in Symptoms and Self-care about this.

 

Basically, we preach moderation in all things. A drastic diet change will affect your absorption of a lot of things, including the drug. What do you think is the best thing for you to do?

[sunnydays0912]

I had a whole post typed up...and then it disappeared...ughhhhh

[sunnydays0912]

 

I'm trying to use facts to keep me from overreacting, like the fact my body hasn't even registered a lower dose yet because of such a long half life.

 

This is really good, anxiety tends to make us think the worst, makes us believe thoughts which aren't true, so challenging your false thoughts with logic is an excellent way to stay on track.

 

You might not feel any withdrawal symptoms at all, just the regular ups and downs you have been feeling.  Its normal to feel some anxiety in life and different levels of energy and motivation throughout a day.

 

You will do just fine Sunny, its impossible to fail, the only time a person fails is when they stop trying.

 

Its not a good idea to do a detox while in withdrawal, the nervous system doesn't need any more stress.  But adopting a nutrient rich diet, organic if possible, with plenty of protein, fresh fruits and vegetables can help the body to heal.  Many people find that cutting out sugar, caffeine, processed foods and of course alcohol helps.

 

Everyone is different and some people find that certain foods make them more symptomatic, so its good if you can pay attention to your own body and how it reacts.  There are a lot of threads related to food and diets in this link here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/

 

But my suggestion is to keep it simple and as healthy as possible without causing more stress for yourself.

 

 

Thanks Petu! Unfortunately this is indeed the old anxiety issues I used to deal with premed. Prozac seems to do nothing for it lol. Well, except keeps my heart rate down. Prozac really blunts any adrenal affect with me, even ones I need (like when I explained before how I didn't panic when I couldn't find my daughter for a moment). It makes me have this blah "I don't care about anything" feeling in general. I feel like I'm finally having the known dulled reaction to SSRI's now. My honeymoon is over. Time to get off. But boy do I wish I could go faster

 

I really need to study up on how to naturally control anxiety. Now that I've been getting a feel of the old way I used to think, I'm remembering how easily I would give in to those scary thoughts and jump to conclusions. One thing I've already learned that really helps, is fighting back with facts. When I was younger and dealing with this, I was so naive and knew next to nothing about how our bodies work. But the more I know and make sense of, the better I'm able to counter my panic thoughts with reasons why they aren't true. I just wish I had more time to dedicate to this! I've been doing better making time to learn, but there's still sections on this site I haven't had a chance to get to yet and I need to.

 

 

Hi Sunny, It is so great that your husband is expressing an interest in working with you towards natural healing. That's been an issue at our house. I would try to incorporate his ideas as possible just for the sake of nurturing your marriage. That said, I tried a juice fast once in a hard part of my Wellbutrin taper...I was sort of manic by noon. But I have done some more modest juicing with good results. I started with a cup a day, and by lack of organization skipped frequently. Probably the most I've ever done is three cups a day. I eat liver twice a week usually...I've finally stopped gagging.

I don't know at all what is at the root of your troubles, but I think methylation is somehow connected to mine. I got a little e-article for about a dollar off Amazon that is a good starting point. It is entitled MTHFR Basics. But the entire methylation cycle involves other genes as well...by how my brain acts I think I might have some issues with the enzyme that breaks down some neurotransmitters. It's hard to know. Did I already tell you about the thread here on methylation and B vitamins?

 

 

That is a thread I need to get to! I imagine maybe adding juicing to my diet won't do any harm. Maybe I'll start with one juicing every 2 days. Just to help get some natural nutrition in me.

 

 

sunny, I think your next challenge is to learn to manage your health anxiety. Please see discussions in Symptoms and Self-care about this.

 

Basically, we preach moderation in all things. A drastic diet change will affect your absorption of a lot of things, including the drug. What do you think is the best thing for you to do?

I've been meaning to study up on that section of the site more often. I have been able to do a lot, but simply don't have the time I wish I could have to really indulge in learning everything I need to know. And I really, really want to because I'm finding the more I'm learning, the more confident I feel about my decision to taper and feel confident I can feel how I want to feel without meds, though it may take time.

 

Monday I'm going to call and see what's the hold up with starting with my new psychologist. I really want to work with a psychologist who focuses on working thigh issues without meds. The only psychologist I've worked with was when I first got on Lexapro after having my son, and we focused on how to get by UNTIL my medication started working. She knew all about my side effects, mood changes, suicidal urges, yet instead of telling me to get off it or contacting my pdoc with concerns, she just went with what my pdoc said and helped me get through until my medication began to work. I never once received any suggestions if how to deal with issues on my own.

 

So I hope if I go in expressing my intentions of getting off and learning ways to help adjust without meds, they will be able to help.

 

Alto, is there any self help books geared exactly to this? Coming off medications and coping with the WD plus learning how to readjust to life without them? I know your site has so much helpful information, but I'm curious if there's any other references?

[sunnydays0912]

Also, is there any info about adverse effects from psychiatric meds and oxytocin and dopamine? Because I've learned more that the maternal instinct and feelings of love come from these two chemicals in the brain. And my single most biggest fear about this whole process is keeping the connections and bonds with my kids and family, which I'm still barely hanging onto thanks to the brain fog and confusion I've been struggling with ever since this all started in September. But when I took seroquel for that month? It's like it took away my feelings of love for anything, including my kids. And when I'd get even a tiny bit frustrated with them, I'd have strong feelings of not wanting to be their mom anymore...moments where I truly did not want them. It was fleeting but it was intense and made me burst into crying fits because it's such a horrible, unwanted feeling and I begged and pleaded to God to let me have the love of my kids back. The protective, need to be with them always feelings. My bonds with them were completely stolen by seroquel, but also when lexapro pooped out. When lexapro pooped out, I felt nothing but painful sadness. And then seroquel made it not painful, but I felt nothing.

 

I know slowly taking away medication shouldn't have an effect like that again, but I'm still concerned. I just want to make sure it was the medication causing this and hope to find a connection proving it?

[Altostrata]

You might want to look at http://beyondmeds.com

 

I haven't seen any way to figure out exactly which hormonal processes are affected by SSRIs. The body doesn't work in the way the "chemical imbalance" theory suggests. All the hormonal systems are linked together. Different people are affected in different ways.

 

It sounds like you are finding new things to worry about. Please direct your time and attention to more productive inquiries.

[sunnydays0912]

You might want to look at http://beyondmeds.com

 

I haven't seen any way to figure out exactly which hormonal processes are affected by SSRIs. The body doesn't work in the way the "chemical imbalance" theory suggests. All the hormonal systems are linked together. Different people are affected in different ways.

 

It sounds like you are finding new things to worry about. Please direct your time and attention to more productive inquiries.

It's not so much that I'm looking for new worries. I'm just afraid of ever experiencing something like that again (what happened while on Seroquel) and I'm still heartbroken over the fact that I don't feel the same happiness and love for my kids that I once did. I've come along way, and they are definitely my joy, but I feel so very robbed of what I had. I'm constantly reminded of this because I know how I would normally react to certain things involving them, and when I don't, it's like a stab to the heart multiple times a day. I've come to adjust better with accepting that's just how it is right now, but the momma bear inside who knows I'm being robbed of my true feelings is always outraged. And I guess if I can find out what exactly caused such an adverse reaction before, I will feel better knowing what caused it and that it wasn't me. I'm still dealing with a lot of guilt from the way I felt before...

 

The only sense I can make is the way my GP explained how antipsychotics help augment AD's. He said something along the lines of they bring down the levels of all the other neurotransmitters so the SSRI can work more effectively. So I'm curious if the small dose of Seroquel was enough to lower those neurotransmitters in me, hence causing loss of those feelings.

[Altostrata]

That is the most absurd explanation of how antipsychotics work that I have ever heard.

 

Everything your GP told you about psychiatric drugs is probably very wrong. Please stop listening to him when it comes to psychiatric drugs.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I thought the same when I read it......

 

Your feelings will surely return as a result of a slow taper and taking care of yourself. I don't think getting answers to your questions of 'why' did this happen will have any effect on that.

[sunnydays0912]

That is the most absurd explanation of how antipsychotics work that I have ever heard.

 

Everything your GP told you about psychiatric drugs is probably very wrong. Please stop listening to him when it comes to psychiatric drugs.

  

I thought the same when I read it......

 

Your feelings will surely return as a result of a slow taper and taking care of yourself. I don't think getting answers to your questions of 'why' did this happen will have any effect on that.

Sigh...more reason to feel so betrayed by the medical "profession". I wish I never went to that GP.

[sunnydays0912]

So after just a few days tapering, I've already noticed a decline in the eyelid tic!! I'd say it's reduced by almost 50%! I hope I'm not jinxing anything, but this is really giving me hope

[sunnydays0912]

Oh, but today I've noticed more fatigue :/

 

And I woke up feeling pretty down, but I'm thinking it's more situational than WD because my husband and I aren't getting along that well right now. He has such a short fuse, and by that I don't mean he gets mad easily but he gets upset about something so easy. I get this strong feeling he's getting tired of my struggles lately...he still tries to be understanding, but his hardwiring doesn't come with much patients for things and he is a bit of a perfectionist so I'm feeling even worse now that I'm constantly comparing myself to him and his energy, motivation, drive, etc. how is he able to succeed at so much while I struggle with basic home and kids responsibility...just watching him makes me realize how slow and foggy my own brain is and it's really disturbing...I find myself struggling even with things that are complete common sense. This is not me. My husband is getting sick of it. I'm afraid of the future if this only worsens while I attempt to recover post-AD....

[sunnydays0912]

Never mind, I'm definitely feeling a wave come on. Already???

 

All of a sudden I feel so weak, low, losing energy, blah, and like the life in me is slowly being sucked out. I'm even out spending time with just myself and I feel so low...I'm scared a crying spell is on it's way. I can feel my throat starting to swell, which means probably yes.

 

If I remember correctly, in 2010 when I first tried tapering lexapro at 25% drops, this is how it started to feel. I was hit with depressive symptoms so fast! This time I'm not going to run to my doctor though. I have to give myself a chance to get passed this...I just wish I was able to let myself shut down and heal but I can't. I have way too many responsibilities I'm already struggling to keep up with.

 

I'm scared...

[sunnydays0912]

Wow...I just realized a mistake I've been making with this taper!!

 

My brain fog has really messed up this time...I thought I was doing 1mg for 1mL water. But I've actually been doing 2mg for 1mL!! I for some reason thought my 10mL syringe was 20mL! So I've been taking 18mL instead of 38mL like I thought!

 

So instead of 2mg drop, it's a 4mg drop, right? And I'm already experiencing WD when I haven't even hit the half life point yet...should I correct the taper to 2mg tomorrow?