WinningThrough: Does it get better?

[WinningThrough]

Thanks Rhi Rhi. I will keep hanging on. I could get a window soon. Hugs.

 

Bubble, I have had some counselling. I've been through a lot in my life. I worked through it all. It's mad because I did loads of positive thinking type courses, was really into the law of attraction, was very spiritual and I did an amazing course about 3 years back which was really fantastic. I honestly thought I'd always be ok because of these things and because of my healthy diet. I really thought that I could get through anything. I can't believe I'm in this mess!! And I was really against anti depressants, so why the heck did I take them?!! I still think I must have been meant to go through this.

 

I've seen a counsellor through this and she is so nice. Since acute withdrawal hit, I've not managed to get to see her because it's too much to physically get there and sit in the room for 50 minutes. I've done a couple of skypes with her. I should fix another. I have coaching occasionally. I think I need to fix another one of those. Not had one for a while. I should, it helps me get more positive.

 

Thanks guys. The support is brilliant.

[Petunia]

Hi WT,

I don't know if you've read much of my story, but I went into acute withdrawal at the end of 2011.  I can relate to so much of what you write and want to assure you that it does get better.  I've struggled with showering, getting dressed, going out and walking.

 

Like you, I've also been dealing with menopause along with withdrawal and have no idea which symptoms belong to which condition. 

 

I've also done a lot of counseling, CBT groups and workshops and used to be very positive, but I've found that none of it helps when dealing with this physical based withdrawal, its just not the same as 'regular' anxiety and depression.  For me, its been time and acceptance which has helped the most.

 

Like Rhi wrote, do what you can of the things which actually help, things which make you feel better, even if only a little bit better.  I used to push myself to do things when I was already feeling bad, thinking that it was good for me, but I found it just added more stress and increased my symptoms.  I have horrendous memories of trying to walk, driving and grocery shopping while having acute symptoms.  I could force myself, but then I would crash, feel much worse and needed several days to recover. Then I would have the added trauma of another bad memory, which made me reluctant to do it the next time. Now I don't do things if I'm not feeling up to it and I pace myself, even when I am feeling a bit better.

 

When I'm in a wave, and I still get bad ones, it seems like I'm right back where I was 2 years ago, and I'm sure I'm not getting any better, but the truth is, I am recovering, my symptoms aren't as intense, the worst days now are better than the better days from 2 years ago.

 

I think its important to not make recovery from withdrawal more traumatic than it needs to be by pushing ourselves to do what we are not yet ready to do.  We all have different experiences, are at different stages of recovery and have different capabilities, its important we listen to ourselves first.

 

Its worth holding on through the hard moments, because you will recover.  I wish there was more I could do to help, but all I can do is say I understand what you are going through, I know how hard it is and you are not alone.

 

Hoping for a nice big bright window for you soon.

 

((hugs))

[WinningThrough]

What a wonderful post, Petu! It's really helped me.

 

I have read all of your thread and can relate to so much of it. I remember you saying somewhere that it took you days to build up courage to have a shower and i am like that. I used to have a bath every day and today I can't remember the last time I had one! I'm too scared. Also waking up with intense agitation.

 

It's really good to hear that your worst days now are better than your best days two years ago. That gives me hope. A lot of hope.

 

Thank you, Petu. I hope you have another window soon. I loved reading about your recent window.

[Skylarblue75]

Hi winning through, just checking in to see how you are

 

Hugs and prayers

[WinningThrough]

Thanks Skylarblue. I managed to go out today. Walked along a canal and had some lunch in a pub garden. I guess I've had a sort of window. It's definitely a window compared to the last two days when I couldnt have done it.

 

Thinking of you. You will get better.

[Skylarblue75]

WT, im so happy that you got out for a bit, big hugs. What a big step!!!

[WinningThrough]

I have to see the crisis team care worker today. Dreading it. It means I need to shower and wash my hair. Always terrifying. Then dry and straighten it, find something to wear and get dressed, all in a massive wave. I then have to get there and compose myself. I have to show her that I'm getting better so I can get closer to my goal of getting discharged and away from the threat of further drugging. I will be so glad when the appointment's over as it adds so much stress.

[Skylarblue75]

Good luck, thinking of you

[WinningThrough]

Thank you SB. Thinking of you.

 

It went way better than expected. It seems the psychiatrist I saw really did believe me and saw that I'd reacted to drugs. My care worker believed me too! She was shocked at the akathisia. She's never known it not to go. She said when she's seen it before, people have stopped the drugs and it's gone away. I guess because they have got straight off them early instead of staying on like I did. She realises now that I'm highly med sensitive.

 

She thought I seemed better than I had. I only have to see her one more time in a month then, as long as I'm no worse, I will be discharged back to my GP.

[mattinsmom]

YAY!!! (I don't know how to make a clapping icon so just imagine one right here). 

[WinningThrough]

I've found out that one of the ingredients in the augmentin antibiotics I took (clavulanic acid) is being used to possibly develop an antidepressant. This could explain why I had such a bad reaction to it.

[chicken]

I've found out that one of the ingredients in the augmentin antibiotics I took (clavulanic acid) is being used to possibly develop an antidepressant. This could explain why I had such a bad reaction to it.

WinningThrough, what you just said may confirm a suspision of mine.

I posted in my thread that I finally was able to get off Mirtazipine by bridging to zxprexa and a tricyclic.

When I quit the Mirtz and come back on it to try to stabilize back in May an ER doc put me on Cipro (an antibiotic) at the same time for a urinary tract infection. I wonder if Cipro did something to my Mirtz that me unable to take it again? That thought has been in the back of my mind.

 

Anyway, now that I'm off the mirtz all the problems have gone away and now I am mentally ready to start the taper on my bridge meds.

No more more Cipro! I've heard bad stories about it. I heard that one should request one of the older antibiotics not this new stuff. Is augmentin one of the newer antibiotics?

[WinningThrough]

Cipro is a strong antibiotic and lots of people have problems with it. I'm not sure if augmentin is newer. It used to be just amoxicillin but that acid stuff got added to it later.

 

I'm so glad you're feeling better. You sound a lot happier.

[chicken]

Thanks winning.

I'm a lot happier as I have no symptoms now. I thank God. I had read everything you could possibly read about my drug and how my doc figured the perfect bridge drug for me I will never know unless it was divine intervention by God. Dr. Healy, Dr. Shipko, nor Dr. Johnson knew this. So it had to be from God. We had prayed so hard.

 

Anyway, my mom and I prayed for you, muddles and skyblue75 tonight. I pray for everyone on here but I mentioned you three by name in prayer because your situations seem worse than the others.

 

Another miracle, well at least I will call it a miracle. I took one of my old cars to the mechanic to have it fixed. It is a 79 LTD. The mechanic told me it needed a lot of work and he would scrap it if it was his. I love this old car it has so much sentimental value to me. I have changed the coil, rotor, distrubutor cap, plug wires and everything I could think of myself. Well finally I changed the little computer box on the inside fender and it worked. The car runs great now. I fixed it and I'm a woman!! I remember now that a friend of mine at a classic car cruise in telling me to check that little box. I thought the mechanic already did that. Anyway, my car is running now. This made me so happy because I didn't want to spend a lot of money on it with a mechanic. I even prayed that God would give me wisdom on this and it happened.

 

I had to tell you this because I believe God helps us even with the little things and I want Him to help you with a miracle. You hang in there because I believe your day of blessing is coming.

 

Anyway, I start my taper hopefully next month on my bridge drugs. I'm praying that I won't have much trouble. I'm keeping a positive attitude. I'm using my old cars as a distraction now.

[WinningThrough]

Chicken, thank you and your mum so much for praying for us. That means so much to me and I know it helps. It's so kind of you both.

 

That's wonderful about your car and great that your cars are a source of distraction. :-)

[WinningThrough]

YAY!!! (I don't know how to make a clapping icon so just imagine one right here).

 

Thank you MM :-)

[WinningThrough]

A more positive post today. I may be having a degree of success with Propranolol. It's very early days but I thought I'd post an update.

 

I tried a little propranolol a while ago. The first time I tried it (10mg) it seemed to make a bit of difference. The next time, I wasn't sure if it had but it may have made a small difference. At the time, I was still on a small reinstatement of zoloft so that may have stopped it being effective.

 

Last Thursday I was in a wave and was due to see the CPN and didn't know how the heck I was going to manage. I took 10mg of Propranolol. I think it did help. It helped me dress and get there. I even laughed a little at the appointment. After that, I was able to eat lunch in the pub and there was a little of the old me there. Later, I felt more agitated so took another and it did calm me down a bit. What I noticed was that it calmed my thoughts a bit. They weren't racing so much. I was able, up to a point, to think of things other than withdrawal.

 

I didn't have any on Friday or Saturday and wasn't so good. Unfortunately I haven't been journaling for a while (must start again) so I can't really remember. I know we went to the duck pond on Saturday night and I was trying hard but I was really bad in the day. Yesterday I woke thinking I may be slightly 'windowy'. Not really a window, more a feeling that I would try hard and would cope. My boyfriend really wanted to get me to go out (in a very loving way) thinking a day out would help me. I took 10mg of propranolol. I managed to bath, dress and do a few bits round the house. Then we went to Brighton! My boyfriend drove and we listened to Bruce Springsteen. I actually found myself singing along and enjoying the music!! That was more like the old me. I used to love singing along to music in the car. I do think the propranolol helped me. My head was calmer and the agitation less intense.

 

When we arrived, I took a second 10mg of propranolol. We walked along the seafront quite a long way to the pier. We ate chips on the pier. We then walked up to the north lanes and had a drink (herbal tea!) outside a cafe. Went into a handful of shops. In some I just wanted to get out but in others I was looking at bits and pieces and getting some appreciation from them. I found myself taking about a few normal things and pointing out things that caught my eye. We then walked back to the beach and we were talking about old haunts in Brighton. I remembered all the gigs I went to there and all the clubbing in my youth! We worked out that we could even have been in the same nightclubs at the same time and we didn't meet til years later! We sat outside a beach bar and had a cold drink. A band was playing and I was singing along to the songs. Something I would have done in the past.

 

We then sat by the beach for a while then started to walk back to the car. On the way back, we found an Italian restaurant. I had a tuna nicoise salad. I felt quite confident in there and didn't care what people thought of me.

 

In the car on the way back, I was singing along to the Foo Fighters. I was also staring at the moon. It was low in the sky and beautiful. That's the sort of thing I used to do. I used to watch meteor showers and marvel and the moon and the stars. In withdrawal and on the drugs, it's hurt me to look at the stars because I haven't been able to feel it. All I've been able to feel is despair and doom. I've often cried looking at the stars because it's been another reminder that I'm not as I was.

 

When we got home, I did some washing up and a bit of tidying.

 

This could have been a window but I definitely think the propranolol helped. I have a hunch that if I hadn't taken it, I would have coped but I would have white knuckled it through. It was all still there yesterday, the inner agitation (but to a lesser degree), the feeling of pressure in my eye and nose, the feeling of not being in my body, the constant knowing that I'm so far from ok. But I was able to fight the thoughts of withdrawal. I was able to consciously push them aside and replace them with other thoughts. I was brighter in the head. I had less of the overwhelming darkness and doom.

 

My boyfriend said I was about 50% better yesterday.

 

This may all have been a one off. I'm still feeling a little bit calmer this morning. Perhaps this is a sign that I'm moving out of acute. Perhaps this is a semi window. But perhaps it's the propranolol.

 

It gets confusing because some say it's best to touch no supplements or drugs in withdrawal while others say they can really help. Some who've recovered from akathisia said don't take anything while others have said propranolol or other things helped a lot. I'm feeling very tempted to take it again or even go on it while I get through withdrawal, knowing that I can slowly and carefully come off it later. Propranolol isn't a head med. I don't seem to get any side effects from it. All it does is make things easier for me. I took it years ago, at a higher dose, when I had anxiety. I had no side effects or withdrawal from it. If it can give me what I need to be able to manage meditation and healing etc better then that's got to be a good thing. If it can make life slightly less unbearable then that has got to be a good thing too.

 

I could maybe try not having any for a while and seeing how I feel with the view to going on it later.

 

The other thing I've been experimenting with is progesterone cream. I'm struggling majorly with my hormones as I'm in the thick of menopause. Coupled with withdrawal, this is not fun! I tried using the cream morning and night. I wasn't sure if it was helping or making me worse. So hard to know when you're in a massive wave! While using it I was getting major hot flashes and agitation and thought it might be making me worse. Having said that, after the first day or two or starting it, I went into a slight window. But then I hit a big wave. I eased off it and stopped but I seemed to get worse. So I've started again the last few days. I'm just using a little at night now rather than twice a day. The things I think it's helped with are my energy levels, my skin (my skin has been reacting majorly to everything but it seems to calm on the progesterone cream) and possibly the crying spells. I'm not having massive crying spells at the moment. If I cry, it's only for a short time, compared to the spells that went on for hours. My hot flashes may be a little less intense too. I'm getting fewer of them and I'm not sweating so intensely with them (sorry if this is too much information!).

 

The jury's out on what I'm doing with the propranolol and the progesterone. Everyone's different and there's no one size fits all. I think we all have to work with our own bodies and our instincts.

 

Perhaps I really am moving out of acute. Time will tell.

[andy]

well done on your day out WT it sounds like you had great fun,if the propranolol helps you through withdrawal use it !

[WinningThrough]

well done on your day out WT it sounds like you had great fun,if the propranolol helps you through withdrawal use it !

Thanks Andy and thank you for taking the time to come to my thread when you are going through so much yourself.

[bubble]

Dear WinningThrough,

 

it's so great to read of things being better for you. I'm not familiar with Propranolol but if it helps ease the agony and doesn't cause bad spells in return, I guess it's ok. While I was reading about your great weekend, I almost had a feeling it was acting as a placebo and that after 2 acute months your windows finally strated becoming more pronounced. 

 

It would be good to put Propranolol in your signature, together with doses and frequency at which you are taking it. And also check a collective wisdom here about it.

 

But if something works, don't feel bad about it. We just have to be careful about things which make us feel better temporarily, but very soon make us feel worse and interfere with the natural healing process.

 

Thanks for the update

[WinningThrough]

Thanks bubble. You could be right..it could be the placebo effect. I've taken one today but tomorrow, I'm not going to take any. I will try without it and assess how I am.

 

I've noticed that I've got overnight bruising for no reason on my arms and legs. This happened on citalopram and sertraline. I'm so flippin sensitive! I don't know whether bruising is an important side effect or not. I will have to call the doctor and find out. I read in the side effects that unusual bruising=call the doctor. Hey ho.

 

I will update my signature later.

[chicken]

Hi Winning.

So great you had a better day.

 

Back when I was OCD'ing and reading everything about akathesia and remeron, I read some about Propranolol. I think it's main used for blood pressure, correct if I'm wrong. I did read that it helped with akathesia.

 

If it helps I would take it for a little while if it gives you some relief. For me I am really enjoying symptom free for a while until I start my taper next month and I'm still on benzos.

So, I don't think Propranolol is that bad. I just did a quick search on it and it is a beta blocker and doesn't appear to be additive. You may want to research it more before you take it for a long time though.

 

Anyway, I'm so happy you got some relief!!! Glad you like Bruce Springsteen. I love his music too.

 

I see you are near Oxfordshire. When I was in the USAF I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford. I liked the UK but it rained too much for me, LOL!

[WinningThrough]

You were quite near me, chicken. It does rain a lot here!

 

Thanks for your message.

[mammaP]

I loved reading about your Brighton trip, it sounds like it was great fun after being 

ill for so long.  What a lovely boyfriend you have. 

 

I took propranolol years ago and came off it because of side effects and started something else. 

I took it for high blood pressure. I can't remember the side effects now.  

Be aware that if you take it regularly you will need to taper it. Any drug that is taken regularly 

needs tapering because the body gets used to it. It's not in the same league as AD's but I 

would definitely not quit C/T after taking it regularly.   I hope your window lasts for you, you deserve it.

[Petunia]

It gets confusing because some say it's best to touch no supplements or drugs in withdrawal while others say they can really help. Some who've recovered from akathisia said don't take anything while others have said propranolol or other things helped a lot. I'm feeling very tempted to take it again or even go on it while I get through withdrawal, knowing that I can slowly and carefully come off it later. Propranolol isn't a head med. I don't seem to get any side effects from it......

 

The other thing I've been experimenting with is progesterone cream. ....

 

The jury's out on what I'm doing with the propranolol and the progesterone. Everyone's different and there's no one size fits all. I think we all have to work with our own bodies and our instincts.

 

Hi WT, I just caught up with your thread, your day out with your boyfriend sounded lovely and I definitely think the propranolol had something to do with it.  I say that because I'm one of those people who gets some significant symptom reduction from it.  For me, it lowers many of the physical effects of nervous system hyper-arousal.  Before I found this site, I was using it regularly to help me get out and do things I needed to do.  But for me, it causes rebound depression. And in the long run, just seemed to make me feel worse in the days after I had taken it.

 

I also spent some time experimenting with progesterone cream.... because I was/am also dealing with menopause.  But progesterone gives me migraines, so I gave up on that too. I've never been able to figure out if my hot flashes and sudden sweats are caused by withdrawal or menopause or both.

 

I think that if you can find something which helps, without giving you any side effects or rebound effects, you could use it.  But please don't experiment with propranolol and progesterone at the same time, you wont know which one is causing which effect.  I'm writing from experience when it comes to experiments. Only try one thing at a time, start slowly, take good notes and don't jump around with doses and times.  If you start taking propranolol regularly, you will need to taper from it and you may experience an increase of symptoms when you stop taking it.  It also carries quite a list of possible side effects:

 

http://www.drugs.com/propranolol.html

I hope your window lasts.

 

Petu.

 

[WinningThrough]

Thanks mammaP. My man is wonderful. So patient, kind and caring and he puts me before himself.

 

I didnt seem to get any side effects from the propranolol. I didn't when I took it years ago, either. The only thing I have noticed over the last few days since taking it are bruises. I read that unusual bruising means call the doctor but I don't know why drugs cause bleeding or why that's bad. I've also got a strange patch on my skin. This could all be a coincidence. I've always bruised easily and there have been other times where random bruises have shown up for no reason.

 

I haven't taken any propranolol today. I haven't noticed any kickback. I'm less good today than the last two days but I'm not my worst. I've managed a bath. I could try like this, propranolol free, for a while to see whether I get any natural windows like I had on Sunday, or not. If not, I may seriously consider going on it. I'm thinking 10mg twice a day. If I did, I would do a long, slow taper when I decided to come off. I wouldn't mind doing that with propranolol. My thinking is that if it can make life more bearable and help me to function more, it could be worth doing and I'd probably stay on in a while. As long as the bruising and skin thing don't indicate any sort of significant side effect. I really hope not because I want something to help or to know that there's something I can take if I have a day when I really have to function for whatever reason.

 

Petu, thanks for your message. Your journey sounds very similar to mine. I'm sorry the propranolol caused rebound depression. I'm very aware of this possibility. For me, it lifted my mood and took away the doom and darkness that I always live with. It took away the worst of the suicidal despair. It's a good option if I get dangerously suicidal. I'm just so desperate for relief and some kind of normality.

 

It can be really hard to know whats menopause and what's withdrawal. My flushes are definitely worse in withdrawal. Before drugs, when I had a flush, I used to get a fleeting agitated feeling and know one was coming. Then I'd feel the heat. I wouldn't sweat though. They were a nuisance but they didn't make me want to top myself. In withdrawal the agitation is horrendous, then the heat is insane and I sweat all over and I want to jump off a bridge. They last much longer too. Having said that the last couple of days, they have calmed down. Today, I've only had one and I've been awake about 5 hours. It didn't last long and I didn't sweat. Perhaps this is down to the progesterone cream.

 

You're right Petu, experimenting with 2 things at once is confusing. I think I know what is from which but it's still confusing. I think the propranolol gives me calmness in the head and makes me more functional. It makes it more bearable. It helps the darkness. I think the progesterone helps the hot flashes, helps my skin and my energy levels and may possibly stop me losing half my hair.

 

I'm using a small amount of the cream at night only. I will try this for a while to see how I get on.

 

I'd like to think I could be moving out of super acute. I haven't been crying. I only get the zaps in the morning. I'm less exhausted. I'm slightly less agitated.

[WinningThrough]

Go me! I've just driven to the supermarket and done food shopping. And I've just put it all away. Now I'm going to do some household chores.

[chicken]

Go me! I've just driven to the supermarket and done food shopping. And I've just put it all away. Now I'm going to do some household chores.

Way to Go! Winning.

I hope more prayers get answered. I want to see you fully well soon!

 

If I were still stationed at Upper Heyford, I would drop in and give you a hug!

[WinningThrough]

Aw, chicken, that's so sweet! Thank you. Keep those prayers comin'!

[Skylarblue75]

Yeah winning through! Glad to hear you had a good day!

 

Hugs and prayers

[WinningThrough]

Thanks SB x

[WinningThrough]

Just wanted to post that it's 6 months since I took the last zoloft (before reinstatement) and went into acute withdrawal. The crying spells seem to have stopped. (For now, anyway!) Hopefully this is a sign of healing. I'm also making myself get out of bed daily which is new. I wonder what will be the next symptom to stop ...

[WinningThrough]

Winning is winning.

 

My 'sort of' window lasted five days. Started with my Brighton trip on Sunday. On Wednesday I drove a friend and I out and we walked along the river followed by lunch in a cafe. It was tough but I coped. On Thursday I visited a dear friend and it was so good to see her. During my window I had a bath and got dressed every day.

 

Yesterday, I went into a wave and I couldn't function. Spent the day on the couch feeling hopeless but still, it wasn't as bad as previous waves.

 

Today, another sort of window. Bathed, dressed. Walked along a river with my man to a pub and sat outside with a salad. Walked into oxford. It was better than the previous day in oxford. I felt more like me. I could appreciate some things. Some glimmers of feelings. I even had an idea for a book..the old me was ALWAYS having ideas for books. We had a good walk round oxford and ended up eating dinner in a pub.

 

I've one heck of a way to go but this is better. I'm aware of possible waves to come but if I say I'm feeling a bit better, I must be.

[Petunia]

Happy to hear you've had such a good week WT, this sounds like some significant recovery

[WinningThrough]

Thanks Petu :-) I went I to a wave yesterday and am in it today. In bed again. This really is the gift that keeps on giving. Petu, I hope you get another window soon x

[mammaP]

Sorry that you are in a wave Winning, I hope it passes soon for you and you get a good long window.