LexAnger: tapering or no tapering, generic vs. name brand lexapro

[LexAnger]

Thanks so much Alto.

I will get the Celexa liquid too.

Rolling a dice probably is the only way to get me moving

 

Kindest regards,

Lex

[grandmaD]

Hi LA, dropping by and found a lot happening I missed!  I am SO SO saddened and sorry to hear this terrible battle you are having.  I did see your many posts about saying you had a reaction to taking the actual drug.  I was a bit confused sometimes about your drops and reactions and withdrawal, so I apologise for not being any help.  I kept wondering if you had simply dropped too suddenly, but you now your body and can only you know what is going on!

 

I am glad the mods are here to help you, as they have good advice and access to opinions and so on.  I truly hope the switch  helps, I am praying for you!  My doctor wanted me to switch to Prozac but like you, I was too scared and not only that I was on 5mg of paxil and he wanted to put me up to 10mg of prozac and I didn't want to lose all that time and pain.

 

Can I just ask if you have tried going slower at all and whether it helps or not.  Sorry if you have mentioned this, I have read your journal but cannot remember what I did yesterday!

 

Alto, I wonder if the amyltriptiline you mentioned would be even better than Celexa?  Is that "Endep"?  I have heard it is much older and possibly more safer, is that right?  Also, I was on it, but a huge dose and would venture to say it is more on the calming side of things than the stimulating side.

[LexAnger]

dear GrandmaD,

 

It warms my heart reading your message! I know you have been struggling yourself these days with breathlessness. Has it gotten better?

 

I haven't made the switch yet. There is something deep down in my heart resisting any changes especially the huge ones.

 

I made one more bigger drop (0.08mg) one week ago at the beginning of the severe reaction preparing the switch. At day 4 from the cut the reaction started lifting, then day 5 and 6 almost all gone. Although I got the anxiety attack one day or the other since the cut and also insomnia some nights, I feel more existing with fair awareness of souroundings. So I'm still holding to lexapro as of today hoping to continue the journey like this without switch.

 

Stupidly, I decided to go to beach yesterday with a friend, feeling rather good for the day, then ended up with an accident. It was a high tide day, I was having great energy and mood playing with the waves then suddenly knocked down by my friend who was knocked off by a big wave. The entire me was pushed by a great force to a huge rock with my friend of 200 some pounds on top of my right arm. All happened like in a split of second and I lost sense at that moment completely soaked in waves and sand. When I eventually pulled myself up, I found cuts and bruises allover my legs, and lots pain on my chest and right arm. It was such a shock I got two panic attack the night after getting home and lost most sleep last night.

 

With all the pains and cuts, all I concerned about is the impact of this on my nerve system not the injury. I went to hospital today just to rull out Brocken bones which is confirmed by many X-rays on chest, arms, fingers.

 

I was rather angry about the incidence, stupid me taking the chance and how my friend being lack of good sense ( he was taking pictures of waves not seeing the danger, well, we were there supposedly for the purpose of relaxing and walkin on beaches instead talking pictures, being to the same beach many times, and it's right off where we live) so that was how I started the week long company shutdown (originally thinking either to do the switch or to give my nerve system a good break). Now I'm a real bad mess inside out.

 

Lessons learned, be low key and conservative for the rest of journey, not to be volunerable to risks especially when feeling good.

 

To answer your question, I tried holding long (4 months at 3.2 mg until February 2016 ) and that was when my first real severe reaction started. I am still trying to hold as long as possible ever since only make cut when the reaction is too severe. Looking back, I believe this odd reaction was caused by a one day accidental dose incraese during my tapering last August. There is a clear and consistent pattern though, at day 3 from each cut, the reaction would lift, then clear up on day 4, then picking up a bit gradually until full force round day 7-9. Bigger cut will allow longer hold.

 

Recently I need to cut faster like 0.033 mg every 4-5 days which made the WD quite severe ( anxiety attack and insomnia as new symptoms to the ld ones pain, numb etc).

 

What I can do is purely follow what my body tells, day and hour, no more planing and prediction is possible.

[LexAnger]

Oh, just to clarify if I said it otherwise in the post above, none of my bones are broken- a great relief.

[grandmaD]

I have been thinking about you a lot and pray for guidance for you to know what to do!  I guess you have to sort out what is w/d reaction and what is toxic tablet reaction and that makes it even more confusing.  It is intriguing you get a reaction so suddenly from your cut, it sure is complicated!  Do you still get the coma affect after taking it?  It is good you are down to such a low dose, so I hope you can handle it the rest of the way.

 

oh dear, what should have been a lovely day ending up like that!  As if things aren't bad enough already!  It is good you have no broken bones and I hope you sleep better tonight.

 

The breathlessness is still daily, but not as severe lately.  I've been struggling a lot lately with negative thoughts, feeling fed up, which is probably just the result of having only 1 good day this last week and not sleeping enough.  Last few days I've been low, feeling heavy and lethargic and had to force myself to go for a walk.  I think I am beginning to see this depression cycle thing come round and that's when I feel like this, so I will get through it, but when I do the anxiety aspect ramps up!  Not sure which is better!  Don't like either of them and wish my body would balance itself out.

 

I can understand your fear of switching, it all depends how much you can handle if you don't and how desperate you get.  I'm interested to hear if the tricyclic drugs might be better for you.   Another option could be that if you did both like Alto suggested and then went right off Lexapro and you suddenly got worse, you could always go back on it.  I keep wondering if it is a toxic reaction to Lex that if you did stop it, you might find you improve suddenly!

[brassmonkey]

Hi Lex-- I'm so sorry to hear about your accident, I'm glad you came through it okay.  It's sad that having such a wonderful time can turn so bad so quickly, but that's what accidents are.  I doubt that your friend could have prevented it even if he were paying more attention.  Ocean waves are so unpredictable. The big thing is, you got out and had a wonderful day at the beach, with one exception.  Cuts and scrapes will heal and years from now it will give an interesting story to tell the grand kids.  Now, deep breaths and let this "wave" roll past and don't give it any more power over you.

 

((((((((((((((GENTLE HUGS))))))))))))

[LexAnger]

Oh Dear GrandmaD, your care touches my heart and i feel overwhelmed by your words and prayer!

 

I feel all your pain GrandmsD! I am glad the braethlessness is a bit less severe. Aniexity and depression are both evil symptoms. I used to complain all those years about pain and brain nonfunctional and thought I might be able to handle the other symptoms better, while I experienced the new symptom lately with anxious feeling/ anxiety attacks I now know WOW, that one alone can make you insane and very sick even without the physical pain! For me, it's the low dose effect. We are probably at a similar dose level in terms of potency as lexapro is about 2 times stronger than Paxil. We will hold each other's hands going through the rest of journey until we are free from all the evil symptom possible.

 

The main reaction I got from the drug is the coma like status. So I'm still good today with that symptom, 7 days from the last cut.

 

Yeah, somehow I feel once I get off lexapro, I won't be able to go back to it without huge problems, similar to the dose incraese I got in the past.

 

So I will try to continue stick to the same. Path as long as possible, only to be prepared for the absolute unbearable situation.

 

Wish you a better day on the July 4th holiday!

 

Love and hugs,

Lex

[LexAnger]

Dear Tom,

 

Your wisdom always makes me speechless! I'm smiling reading your great witness about my inner struggling

 

Thank you so very much for the reminder and great advice! I have been struggling with this obsessive thoughts being hurt badly by this accident and kind of leaning to be angry with my friend even I try to remind myself it's an accident. I used to be very calm and reasonable during theses years tapering (very possible the drug suppressed all my emotions, good and bad), but this time I got very obsessive.

 

You are so right too about the power of the ocean waves. As a matter of fact, this is not the first time I got knocked down by a wave. I had one back before meds time in Caribbean lost my glasses ( had to wear it even in ocean) there in a middle of a cruise, then rushing every store on the small island for a temp pair within 2 hours. I remember the cab driver ( we became great friend afterwards) dragged me around as I was near blind without glasses and eventually got a new pair made in the last minute right before the ship leaves. All my friends on the same trip thought I might be just left on that island without seeing me back literally the last minute. It has been a story of true adventure.

 

this reinforce the lessons learned for fewer future similar incidences, that I need to respect the power of ocean and all nature, especially for an adventurous solo travelers like me.

 

Thanks so much and happy holiday!

Les

[grandmaD]

Keep on going then and stay strong!  We have come such a long way already.   It is good we can hold each others' hands.  Thank you for beautiful kind words, such a blessing!  Thank you also for your words in my journal that I keep reminding myself of - that it is a good thing we don't get ALL THEY SYMPTOMS come all at the one time!

[JanCarol]

Oh Lex!  I'm so sorry to hear of your accident!  You were gradually coming out, getting your doses down when this happened.

 

And I'm learning that physical trauma (like an infection - or bad headache - or too big workout) can really slow me down.  So how have you been healing since that happened?

 

I hear what you say about taking risks - but - you go to that beach regularly:  how did you know if it was risky?  Sometimes, these things just happen!  I'm glad you are not broken, but please take time to be gentle with yourself.  (you may not have a choice, your body may demand it) while all the bumps and bruises heal.

 

Your positive, bright attitude and shiny young puppy avatar are always a delight to see around site.  You are a warrior, and your light shines for so many others.

[JanCarol]

Hey Lex, you asked:

 

 

I still don't understand this concept though how it possible one can have these two completely opposite effects from the same drug. I hope I am not wrong thinking that my body can't take more of the lexapro. Is it possible the drug reaction ( coma like after each tiny drop ) is actually just part of WD?

 

When Prozac first came out in the late 80's, my doctor-friend and I both were depressed.  We both tried it.

 

We concluded that it was like sticking a giant finger into the front of our foreheads, penetrating our frontal lobes and wiggling the finger around.

 

I reckon these drugs mess with you coming and going, and the side effects from too much drug, look a lot like the withdrawal symptoms, which look a lot like "side effects," too.  It's like the same list - the big finger in the brain still messes with the brain in the same places when you pull it out.

 

So - same symptoms, with any change in these drugs.  Does that make sense to you?

[LexAnger]

GrandmaD, yes, I actually FEEL that we can hold each other's hands going through this most incredible journey. I am very thankful to that! 

 

 

JanCarol,

thank you so very much for stopping by! your kindest words put a smile on my painful face. thank you!!

 

Yes, you are so right about the accident. I am now almost completely over with that as all bruises healed with only a few small scars and the chest pain lessoned to a level that I can swim again. Its hard to know how the trauma impacted my taper in other ways, but I am happy its behind my mind and I can go to gym again. Sauna and swimming has been a lifeline for me during my years taper, and most days the only chance I would get out and feel the world/life. It is my must therapy for pain, muscle tension, energy and etc. So I am all good in that back to daily swimming and sauna.

 

Your explanation is so remarkable! I always had huge difficulty explaining to others how I feel, the extreme uncomfortable weird sensation in my brain, head, back, everywhere really. Yes, I am gradually giving up trying to identify the cause of each of the tons symptoms, just moving along by cutting down dose thinking about the day I will be free.

 

Congratulations to being free from those poisons!!!!!! How are you feeling since then? I hope you are getting your life back in full very soon! 

 

Hugs,

lex

[LexAnger]

Overdue major update:

 

 

So I still decided to stick to Lexapro after 3 full day re-research with proazc liquid right by my hand. This is the 2nd time I planned for the switch. I am now pretty sure I will never be able to do it, its simply too much for my weak psyc to make the move. 

 

Been cutting more rigorously in the past 3 weeks even with the beach accident. I am now right below 2mg (1 drop less than 2mg, about 1.97mg).

Got more used to the hang-over, dream-like, brain non-functional status, not trying to finding patterns (too dummy to think much) or so, just keep walking and cutting doses. Also really don't feel any better with longer hold, and each cut usually brings up some good hours/days. 

 

Overall, pain (especially the pins needling) is much less frequent, and/or severe, this has been quite many weeks. Huge relief as I suffered for many years from severe and constant needling pain and deep bone pain on head, face etc. Now I conclude its from Lexapro side effects.

 

 

Other symptoms continues are numbness, pressure head and left body, very tight/painful back, brain non-functional/on fire, DR/DP, confusion, poor memory, irregular heart rate, hot flushed, swollen face/head, hands. tooth binding  

  

New symptoms since 2mg: jaw pain, tooth pain, ringing in ear, full/clogged hearing (all on left side)

 

An accidental up dose from another accident last week. My sister came for a visit, so we invited a few friends/co-worker over for a dinner. out of sudden, one friend saw my syringe on the counter, so she picked it up and pushed all the liquid out in a split of second before we caught her. I was in a immediate huge panic that moment as I don't know how much meds left in that syringe (I took the liquid in 13-14 hours every day by sipping a tiny bit every 30 mins or so without knowing the exact amount). I was so anxious the entire evening trying to guess the right amount until I got a full blow panic attack mid-night. I learned soon that I took too much that day (~0.1 mg more) and have been experiencing the effect of the up dosing since then. I learned one more time that up dosing causes huge harm as always, and can be long term and shifting healing directions.

 

I feel now my rest taper will be much shorter than what I anticipated (7 years from starting point in mid-2014). Giving the current rate, I should reach to 1mg somewhere end of this year, and another year or less for the last 1mg. This change is due to my weird drug reaction each time I updose, and the lack of good effect of long holding.

[KarenB]

Lex that's brilliant that the pain has lessened.  I'm really happy for you. 

 

I'm interested to read of your new pains being all on the left side.  That's where I get my jaw/neck pain too.  I use a heated wheat sack draped around my neck in the evenings when it's at it's worst, and I learned some exercises on you-tube for relaxing my jaw.  Doesn't make it go away, but makes it much more bearable and less intense. 

 

Well done on all these improvements and realisations. 

Karen

x

[LexAnger]

Dear Karen,

 

Nice to have you stopping by:)

As a matter of fact, all my symptoms are on left side all these years, pain, numbness, pressure, swelling etc, even the brain non functional is most time feels on the left brain.

 

I'm so sorry you have the jaw pain too. It was my initial and only symptom when I started tapering in 2013 down from 10mg to 2.5, very torturing. It stopped since I increased to 3mg back then and disappeared until now. I tried the massage following you tube back then like you said it does help a bit but not much. I also used a mouth guard in sleep which is popularly recommended but also not sure how much that helped.

 

I haven't had the needling pain for a quite while which I'm so grateful as it is a real killer, feels like every single cell is in sharp pain, shaking your heart and soul.

 

Now I have daily brain fog, brain dead which is not as touturing as the pain but makes it very hard to do tiny simple things at work. I wonder if anyone has experience about this as how it goes as doses get lower.

 

Hope you are coping well otherwise.

Love and hugs,

Lex

[LexAnger]

A very positive update

 

 

I got the first ever good day today feeling my old self with brain fully functioning and seeing the world like I haven't been seeing since the accidental dose increase last August, almost normal, feeling happiness inside me even I still have the WD symptoms pressure, numbness, pain on my left head and body. After dealing with the drug toxicity from the dose increase, WD symptoms are not that scary and harsh to handle. I can tell how The drug reaction to dose increase killed and numbed every cell of my whole being.

 

im down from 3.2 mg to 1.9 mg fast tapering in the past 6 month.

I will continue tapering as quick as my body can bear with the WD symptoms.

[Pokeshaw]

Lex,

 

I am so happy to hear about your good day! Really wonderful. I know how much of a struggle it has been for you.

 

I'm cheering for you and I wish you many more good days to come!

 

Peace and cheers,

 

Poke

[scallywag]

Your first good day. That is definitely worth celebrating!

[Christian]

Great news Lexanger!

[nick1990]

Hi five Lex!!!

[LexAnger]

Thanks so much my SA family for the encouragement!

I feel suddenly I woke up from a year long sedated sleep. Everything did was in a dream, sleep, woke up, walk, drive, eat, workout in gym (daily trade mail, sauna and swim). and the work I did ( on computer) was all by sub consciousness, others say they don't see anything abnormal from my work performance but I know I did it without consciences, very strange.

 

I know this will fluctuate but it confirms my guess it's from the drug reaction and so it should improve with dose reduction. This gives me great hope as I'm at the point considering disability almost every day in the past months for this non existing/awareness status and brain dead.

 

It's insane if I say I'm grateful to feel the normal WD as I had before the drug reaction complicated the whole situation, feeling non-existing is such a weird and scary living experience.

 

I do feel this a milestone in my long struggling journey

Lessons learned (no dose increase for whatever the situation)

Confirmation of WD vs drug reaction (constant guessing)

Decision on situation for long hold

Confidence with brain healing

[KarenB]

Lex that's brilliant news.  You have waited so long, going through such awful uncertainty.  You are inspiring.

All the happy faces for you!

[LexAnger]

Thank you so very much Karen for your dear support as always!

Love love those happy faces!

 

Even the window is short lived, It provides great positive energy in various ways.

[geminigirl]

Congrats Lex, wishing you healing.

 

I am wondering if I should also do a faster taper as the feeling of non being like you mentioned is probably the worst symptom of all. Like your subconsious takes over, and you can't get out. Its horrible. I think it is prolly the effect of the drug.

[LexAnger]

Thanks GGirl for stopping by and the support!

 

You have been holding for a while at 10mg which provided some relief from the initial drug reaction. Do you think a small cut (like 2%) a safer approach to test the water first? If it works well without bad WD and provides further relief from the drug reaction, you can taper faster. The #1 principle for me is NOT to incraese dose and small, more frequent cut ensures early detection of bad WD then you can hold longer without the need of going up dose.

 

I didn't follow the original slow taper rate or the 10% rule because the unbearable drug reaction, but still tried my best to hold as long as possible to avoid severe WD. I never got WD free before each new cut even before the drug reaction hit years. My cut time is when the drug reaction is way too much to bear.

[brassmonkey]

I'm so glad to hear it Lex. That marks a good improvement in WDnormal.

 

(((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

[downtongirl]

Helo Lexanger...been reading over your thread and am very happy that you have had a window!  Congratulations!  I hope it lasts!  I am seeing some similarities in our bodies reactions to reinstating/updosing.  I have had success in the past but since January (being off antidepressants for about 3 months) I am not having the same success.  Please continue to post your updates!

[ThoughtTree]

A good day!! That's wonderful! I hope many more good days follow!

[Altostrata]

So good to hear, Lex!

[LexAnger]

Thanks all my dear friends!

So the eventful day is short lived as expected, feeling it was unreal. It's so funny how these drugs can make you feel, actually made me laugh thinking about it.

 

Last night I got insomnia! First time in years I had a morning seeing dawn sky as I have slept through every morning all these years.

So it's a clear indication of low dose effects, and a warning I need to be careful about fast dropping doses.

 

This morning was still very good so dressed up for work and danced to the music on the way driving to office, until after first couple drops of liquid, the drug reaction returned followed by needles, burning sensation allover and weak brain, not the worst but a reminder the window is closing up and time to get ready for the war.

 

Anyway, a great day hearing great update from quite a few members here reaching low doses. Considering it a victorious day for the community as a whole.

 

Looking forward and keeping moving forward, it will be closer with each tiny step.

 

Cheers,

And all the best,

So grateful having SA family on this incredible journey, wish so much we could all go for a trip together someday for the historical event we went through hand by hand.

[bubble]

This is such great news Lex! as you say, both for you and our SA community Hugs to you

[LexAnger]

Thank you Bubble!

Haven't heard from you for a while. I think of you often. I hope you are doing ok.

[nz11]

Wishing you heaps more good days Lex.

nz11

[LexAnger]

Thank you nz for your kind support! I always enjoy reading your posts and benefited from your wisdom in the past years and am grateful to that!

 

Hope your continuous healing!

Lex

[LexAnger]

A follow up to the last update.

 

It turned out that GREAT and Special day of clear mind was indeed a turning point of weakening drug reaction effects. I have been enjoy the reaction - free since then in the past 5-6 days. It seems WD took over control when the reaction in check. Some very old ( during initial tapering, like in 2013) WD symptoms like insomnia, jaw/ face pain, constipation reappeared which I call normal WD.

 

It seems the fast taper in the last 5 months (3.2-1.9mg, 40% cumulative) made a significant effects on the brain to feel less sensitive to the current lower dose finally.

 

So I held at 1.9mg for the new WD symptoms to lesson. Today at 8 days at 1.9mg, I found insomnia lessened ( no more wake up in middle, only slight early weakening ), constipation a bit better, jaw pain is also not constant and severe. At the same time, momentary coma like or more like dreaming status reappeared round sunset.

 

So decided to cut anothe drop again to avoid drug reaction catching up too much soon.

Overall, the past week was more like a WD normal or even a window functional most of the time with bearable symptoms.

 

I am glad I didn't switch and survived the odd and severe reaction so far by a faster taper. It will be more to come but giving the knowledge and experience and the rather low current dose, I would think the rest would not be as bad in terms of drug reaction.

 

I will be forever Grateful to everyone and SA in general for the incredible support, encouragement and help!

 

Lex

[scallywag]

Excellent, excellent news Lex! Enjoying is EXACTLY what you should be doing, unless the other option is reveling in it.