Rico: Zyprexa tapering

[Rico]

Just an update on my journey...finding that my sleep quality is not that good. I go to sleep ok, but wake up in the middle of the night dehydrated. When I go back to bed, I seem to have a very depressing sleep i.e....i lay there feeling very depressed and having a lot of suicidal thoughts. I continue to lay in bed in the morning to try and get more sleep, but to no avail.

 

I am going to try and incorporate more exercise and smoke less cigarettes.

[Shep]

I am going to try and incorporate more exercise and smoke less cigarettes.

 

Rico, you may want to read this article on the effect cigarettes have on your level of Zyprexa:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19794359

 

According to the abstract:

 

"It has been suggested that smoking may be an attempt by schizophrenic patients to alleviate cognitive deficits and to reduce extrapyramidal side-effects induced by antipsychotic medication. Cigarette smoke also increases the activity of CYP 1A2 enzymes, thus decreasing the concentration of many drugs, including clozapine and olanzapine."

 

It's possible that fluctuations in the number of cigarettes you smoke - and possibly the timing - may be affecting the level of Zyprexa in your system. 

 

If you can, I would stick to the same number of cigarettes per day and at the same time of day in an attempt to keep your blood level consistent. You may want to write down when you have a cigarette in the same journal you write down when you take your drugs. 

 

Perhaps make reducing cigarettes a goal for after you're off Zyprexa or even off all your drugs. 

 

I am currently taking Epilim 500/lithium 450 morning and night.

When I take the morning doses, I become quite fatigued and tired. Should I take them all at night? Should I taper at least the Epilim to get some relief?

 

You were having a lot of problems when you took all your drugs at night - please re-read the first couple of pages of your thread. The problem with taking three drugs that act as "brakes" is that you can get a paradoxical effect - instead of them being sedating, they "awaken" your brain and CNS. 

 

It's possible that the 25% Zyprexa reduction was simply too much and your mind and body are telling you to slow down. This may be resulting in a de-stabilization effect on your CNS, making it more difficult to handle the morning doses of Epilim and lithium.

 

Please don't start tapering other drugs when you're still having difficulty with the Zyprexa taper. Reducing the other drugs may not bring any relief, as they all come with their own withdrawal symptoms. 

 

Try to find ways of passing the time in the morning as you deal with the fatigue. Perhaps resting quietly, watching gentle TV shows, or listening to music.

 

Also, make sure you're eating a healthy breakfast soon after you get up. Drops in overnight blood sugar can also cause fatigue, so make sure you're taking care of yourself that way, too. 

 

 

[Rico]

Thank you so much Shep. I really appreciate the support from you and others.

 

I will not taper any other drug during the Zyprexa.

 

I am finding a general pattern of going to sleep, waking up 4am dehydrated, then going back to sleep experiencing severe depression and head pains. For the last few days, I have been lying in bed quite depressed with a lot of suicidal thoughts. I try to stay in bed to hopefully get more sleep but the depression and anxiety gets worse.

 

Things do get better when I finally get out of bed.

 

I am concerned about the head pain though. I have had it for a while, even before the liquid form of zyprexa that I had a bad reaction to.

 

Is head (when waking up) a withdrawal symptom or depression?

 

Thanks

Rico

[AliG]

Rico. This symptom might be from the dehydration. Are you drinking enough water during the day ?

 

Is it a headache or some other type of pain?

 

This thread talks about those issues. It might help .

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1785-migraines-headaches-neck-ache-and-head-pressure/page-3

 

Perhaps, if you get up straight away and find a relaxing activity instead of trying to "force" sleep, you would be less stressed.

Ali

[ppppp9]

Hi Rico

 

Just wanted to mention that I'm tapering off Risperdal. They're disintegrating tablets. I cut to reduce and have little to no w/d symptoms. Now down to less than .25 msg. May not be entirely accurate but seem to be fine so far.

[Rico]

Hi AliG,

 

It's not like a nomal headache...it's pain on the left side of my head (as I sleep on the right side). The pain was quite bad today. At the same time, I get severely depressed.

 

I probably dont drink enough water during the day, so I will start doing that.

 

I am on the train now to see my girlfriend and I am feeling absolutely awful. My head feels stuffy and I feel quite depressed. I am not sure if this is withdrawal or the effects of the Epilim/Lithium I took this morning.

 

This is so hard and the toughest part is there is nowhere to go for help without ending up on more drugs or met with lots of misunderstanding.

 

I guess today is just a bad day.

 

Ppppp9, I am glad you are weaning off risperidal without much trouble. I have been on that drug before and it wasn't a great experience. All the best.

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.  This is going to sound odd, but I found that using a very strong peppermint oil called China Oel helped with headaches, especially the "stuffy" head kind that you're describing. 

 

Dr. Mercola describes using peppermint essential oils, as well as other natural remedies in this article:

 

Avoiding and Treating Headaches

 

I like peppermint because it also helps with allergies and sinus problems, so it has a wide range of benefits. 

[Rico]

Thanks Shep.

 

I wish I knew what is happening with me.

 

Yesterday:

 

I took the Epilim/Lithium at 5pm and felt slowed down and tired, but it's bearable.

 

I went over to my girlfriend's place and took the Zyprexa 1.875 at 8pm and I was ok, although a bit depressed as usual after taking zyprexa. I watched TV, worked some Sudoku puzzles and practiced some mindfulness and relaxed.

 

I took 0.5m of melatonin at 10pm and watched some YouTube videos in bed and then went to sleep.

 

It seems like all hell breaks loose during my sleep. Again, I woke up in the middle of the night very depressed (I wasn't depressed before going to bed) to the point of contemplating suicide. I also tried to get back to sleep but I had an immense pain in my head and I couldn't get back to sleep. My girlfriend gave me one tablet I'd neurofen plus and I got some relief and sleep a little longer.

 

When I got out of bed at around 10:30 am, I felt like absolute crap. I felt dysfunctional, tired, groggy, and barely able to think.

 

My only explanation for this is that the Zyprexa is doing something overnight in my head that is not good.

 

This has been the pattern for a while now, and what I am finding tough is that after I wake up in this state, I then take Epilim / lithium which slow me down even more.

 

I am finding it very difficult to get anything done on this daily dysfunctional state.

[Shep]

I took 0.5m of melatonin at 10pm and watched some YouTube videos in bed and then went to sleep.

 

Do you happen to know if you were getting headaches before you added in melatonin? Just a thought because headaches are listed as a common side effect of melatonin:

 

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/melatonin-side-effects.html

 

I don't know if that's it or not, but it might be worth looking into just in case. Many of us develop sensitivity even to the supplements we didn't have a problem with before withdrawal, so this is something we must be mindful of throughout the taper and into the recovery phase. 

 

[Rico]

Hi Shep.

 

I started taking melatonin 0.5 since the 15th of November. The first time I took it was after the initial reduction of zyprexa, and that night I didn't have any problems. However, i have experienced the depression and headaches since then.

 

I will try tonight to not use melatonin and report back if there are any changes.

 

I am pretty sure it's the zyprexa. After I take it, I get quite depressed/zoned out. I am guessing (though I don't know as much as you guys), that the depression / head pain is some sort of withdrawal effect of the zyprexa. The problems seem to start exactly 8 hours after I take it.

 

I thought I would also let you know that I have had DNA testing which confirms that I am an ultra-rapid metaboliser. The doctor that I worked with earlier this year provided some with a report of all the medication that I cannot metabolise etc. Sadly, I have already been on them - such as Risperidone - which the doctor had me on for 2 years and I was cognitively impaired 24/7.

[Rico]

Just a quick question regarding withdrawal....

 

I haven't been sleeping well for a while and when I try to nap (like today), I found that my brain just wouldn't switch off.

 

Is this what people refer to as insomnia or mind racing as part of zyprexa withdrawal?

 

If so, is there anything I can do? I have tried deep breathing and calming myself down; but it only does so much.

 

I am just worried that I will get really sick if this continues longer. I am feeling quite dysfunctional already.

 

Thanks

Rico

[Shep]

Question, Rico. How was your sleep without melatonin? Did you notice any difference in regards to headaches?

 

As far as insomnia goes, it's one of the most common withdrawal symptoms from ALL psych drugs, and for those of us polydrugged, it's a major problem. 

 

There are already some links that ChessieCat left here in a post that provide some great information on insomnia. 

 

And this is a link I left earlier in your thread that's great for mind racing:

 

 

Everyone is different, but for me, it worked best to not even attempt naps until my sleep was somewhat stable at night. 

 

You may get more information here:

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have withdrawal insomnia

 

Learning to get through long nights of insomnia may be the number key to surviving this. I have a list of NetFlix movies and tv shows on standby for any nights where I'm struggling with insomnia.

 

Not that watching the computer screen is exactly the best thing to do for insomnia, but for the nights when I knew I wasn't going to sleep, the simple distraction of comedies and video games got me through it. 

 

Try to ask yourself if not sleeping is your real issue or if the fear of not sleeping is the most problematic. If it's fear, then target your non-drug coping skills toward learning to "change the channel":

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

And if it's really not sleeping that's the problem, then really work on techniques such as mindfulness, yoga, Tai Chi, etc. 

 

Usually, we all are dealing with a combination of not sleeping mixed with fear which sends us into a spiral of catastrophic thinking and we're back to not sleeping and becoming more afraid. From what I've found, "changing the channel" is the best way to stop this spiral. 

 

Also, keep in mind you did taper at a rate of 25%. I think your mind/body may be telling you something. Perhaps it's time to slow down. 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

I did sleep better without the melatonin. I still woke up during the night, but the depression wasn't as bad when I went back to sleep. I didn't have any headaches at all, so thank you so much!!!

 

I would never have thought that I could be this sensitive.

 

I forced myself out of bed and felt heaviness in the front of my head and I was a bit anxious. This seemed to pass within an hour or so. The coping mechanism I used was to distract myself. Although I didn't feel up to it, I cooked breakfast for me and my girlfriend.

 

You are right, I do need to slow down. The initial taper I did was out of desperation after the horrible experience with the liquid. I now have 1.875mg tablets of zyprexa that were compounded for me. My next reduction will definitely not be 25% and I will hold ok this current dose until I am more stable.

 

Thank you for those links, I have been using the overthinking meditation as well as another shorter one for anxiety.

 

I am definitely not as tired today so I will try and do some exercise.

 

I really wish doctors knew about withdrawal syndrome and tapering. Even the FDA recommends 10% per 14 days but doctors still perform fast tapers and CT.

[Shep]

Very nice update, Rico.

 

I'm glad you're having a better day. 

[Rico]

Thanks Shep.

 

Today, I woke up prety zonked out and depressed - which is the usual Zyprexa hangover that lasts for about an hour or two.

 

One question I am dying to know the answer to is why Zyprexa makes me so depressed after I take it at night. This (and other odd symptoms) has been happening ever since I started taking it a few months ago.

 

When I was in college between 2000-2003, I took Zyprexa 5mg every night. Back then, it would make me sedated and sleepy, and then I would wake up zonked out for a while, and then get on with my day.

 

I have taken Zyprexa after that during various periods, but this time is very different than all the other times. Now, when I take zyprexa at night, I become extremely depressed to the point where I begin to consider doing a cold turkey etc. It makes me feel so awful now!!

 

Does anyone have any ideas as to why this may be happening? I am not going to do any CT's or anything, I just would like more understanding.

 

I hope everyone is doing well.

 

Thanks,
Rico

[Shep]

The concept of limbic kindling is the best explanation I've come across so far:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

Taking these drugs over time leads to a hypersensitivity of the entire nervous system. Who you are now is not who you were then. 

 

I'm glad you're not going to C/T. That would lead to even more hypersensitivity. 

 

Is the depression physical like fatigue or psychological with catastrophic thinking? The fatigue can be helped with rest and the catastrophic thinking can be helped with distractions. 

 

And the knowledge that this is all temporary is also good. 

[Rico]

Thanks Shep.

 

The depression is definitely physical and it happens after I take the Zyprexa in the night time.

[Rico]

I took my vitamins last night and had a pretty good sleep. I woke up at 7:30am feeling ok and then went back to bed and woke up at 10:30am not feeling as good.

 

An ongoing symptom that I have had is shaky hands and I am still feeling that dull pain in the left side of my head. It is not as bad as before, but I'm generally feeling quite "shaky".

 

Has anyone else experienced this? Will this go away?

 

Thanks

Rico

[scallywag]

I haven't had shaky hands but just had a period of 2 weeks where I had a muscle twitch near my left eye.  I recall having this same twitch 4 years ago for about a few months after starting to take Cymbalta. It lasted a 4-6 weeks, I think. Hope your muscle issue resolves as easily and more quickly.

[Rico]

I think I had a "window" yesterday afternoon. I started feeling positive about the future and started looking for jobs (I am not ready to work yet). I even took my motorbikes for a quick ride around the block, which is the first time I have done that in 5 months.

 

Last night though, I had difficulty with sleep and have woken up pretty tired, but not as heavy headed and depressed as in the past.

 

I'm a bit upset with the bags under my eyes though

 

Hope everyone is having a good day / night.

 

Rico

[Rico]

Hi, thought I would give an up update.

 

I am doing a little bit better lately, but my sleep quality is not too good. I still wake up and stay in bed depressed and get out of bed late.

 

I also notice both my hands are quite shaky. I am worried that this might be zyprexa induced parkinson's...

 

I also feel like my feelings are quite numb, like my emotional system is just not working at all.

 

Will this shakiness go away once I am off this stuff?

 

Rico

[AliG]

Rico. I've said this to you before I think, but if I were you I would get up and go for a walk, rather than lying in bed depressed. An early morning walk could do wonders for your spirit. Have you heard of walking meditation ? As you are walking you could play some music or just listen to the birds etc : soak up some nature - really look around, smell the roses and then you can't help but feel good mentally and physically as a result.

 

Here is a link : Perhaps it's something to explore. We have to keep searching for our own solutions. Sometimes, it only takes one strategy or coping tool that works well for you to turn it all around and find that relief you're looking for. You won't know until you try. Often the simplest solutions can be the most effective. 

http://www.wildmind.org/walking/overview

 

Tremors and shaking are quite common withdrawal symptoms : There is a discussion here :

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2016-tremors-shaking-body-vibration-internal-trembling/

 

Ali

[JanCarol]

Hey Rico - I've been away, and look at you!  You're doing so much better!  

 

It may be hard for you to see, but you know how differences seem so much more pronounced after an absence?  When I left, you were all about the drugs, and now - you've got some non-drug techniques under your belt, you're holding - 

 

and still holding - 

 

and planning to hold some more.  This is awesome!  I know it has been hard for you, when all your impulses were screaming to stop the drug - and yet - here you are, holding, and doing so much better.

 

Of course it's not perfect, but perhaps now you have a glimmer of understanding that it's not permanent?  That it will change and grow as you change and grow?

 

Scally talked about neuroplasticity. That would be some good information for you to cultivate.  Here's some links I prepared earlier:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2761-neuroplasticity-and-limbic-retraining/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1160-brain-remodeling/

Norman Doidge the Brain That Changes Itself 25 min

 

There was a post some time ago - I'm sorry I cannot remember the member or thread - that talked about healing from neuroleptics in particular.  This was a way to improve overall health, as well as cutting through some of the cog-fog.  The member suggested challenging your senses.  Like try to read a book sideways.  Stretch your eyeballs - look up/down, side/side, rotate counter, then clockwise.  Challenge your sense of temperature (within reason) by holding a hot thing, a cup of tea, then picking up something from the freezer.  Then try it in reverse.  Walk outside and stand on cold concrete for just one minute.  (not recommended at below freezing temperatures).  When you shower, finish with it as cold as you can stand.  Go outside, spin in a circle (clockwise recommended) to see how many times you can spin.  Challenge your senses to help engage your brain and your body together.  These will all (along with your Soduku) help re-wire your brain and improve your healing.

 

NATURALLY if anything "sets you off" or makes you worse, then that is not for you.  Find things that you can do which challenge you just a little bit.  If the hot cup of coffee / frozen peas is too extreme, then try it with hot/cold running tap water.  

 

Another huge help for healing from neuroleptics - and psych drugs of all sorts - is weightlifting.  The steady, slow movements combined with breath are awesome for improving your stress response.  Start simple with jars of peaches.  Build up to jugs of water.  Or go to Goodwill and pick up some actual weights (there are usually plenty to be found).  

 

If the weightlifting is too much, perhaps you would enjoy Chi Gung.  Here is my favourite:

 

Of all of your symptoms, I think this one concerns me the most:

 

 

waking up 4am dehydrated

Lithium.  Dehydration.  BAD combination.  Do you take electrolytes?  Pink salt?  You can drink all of the water in the world, but if you don't have the right salts, the water will just flush you out.

 

Please take your hydration seriously.  Please reduce your caffeine and energy drinks.  Lithium + dehydration can damage your kidneys, and throw you into toxicity.  Please hydrate + electrolytes during the day to prevent this happening, and please log when it does happen.

 

ALSO:  When was the last time you had your lithium levels and kidney function tested?  It is very important that this be tested every 3-6 months while taking Lithium.  Additionally Epilim requires a liver function test, too.  If you are avoiding doctors, you may be missing these vital tests.

 

Sorry for the loudness, but that was the most important thing I have to say today.

 

The other stuff?

 

 

I haven't been sleeping well for a while and when I try to nap (like today), I found that my brain just wouldn't switch off.

 

Is this what people refer to as insomnia or mind racing as part of zyprexa withdrawal?

 

Yep, that sounds like "normal" WD akathisia.  It will likely be more extreme than most non-drug tools like mindfulness or breathing can handle - so your non-drug skills should focus on distraction (watching cartoons), waiting (watching cartoons), and knowing - absolutely knowing that this is temporary and is only a symptom and will pass.

 

 

I also notice both my hands are quite shaky. I am worried that this might be zyprexa induced parkinson's...

 

I also feel like my feelings are quite numb, like my emotional system is just not working at all.

 

This, too, is a "normal" WD symptom.  Also related to akathisia, and maybe a little muscular release.  Rest assured that it is a sign that your system is healing.  Your body wants to get better.

 

 

As you reduce the zyprexa, this should improve.  

 

And the numbness?  Yep, I've done that one, too.  It's called Anhedonia, and the sensory challenges I listed above will help with that.  Here's a thread on Anhedonia Apathy Demotivation.

 

Overall, you are doing so much better, in just one month's time!  It is really good to see!  Well done, you!

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[Rico]

Thank you Jan for the thoughtful reply.

 

I am doing better compared to before when everyday was a nightmare.

 

I will be getting lithium levels checked soon alongside a whole range of other tests including kidney and liver function.

 

I am waking up better than before, but not really feeling like I have had a deep sleep or feeling "refreshed".

 

Thank you for the link on anhedonia - I definitely have this at the moment and I hope it passes.

 

Tonight, I will be reducing the Zyprexa by a further 10% (1.875 -> 1.625). I really can't wait to be off this drug because I want to get off the Epilim too - it makes me feel so dull and slow.

 

Thank you for all your support.

 

Rico

[Rico]

I slept ok last night after the reduction to 1.625 of zyprexa and general feel a bit more alive.

 

I am so grateful for all the help I've had in this forum. I would have probably ended up panicking and going to hospital orherwise.

 

Thanks everyone.

[ChessieCat]

It's so good to see you posting good news.  You've been through a rough time.  You've done really well getting through it and I'm really pleased that things are starting to settle down a bit for you.

[Rico]

Thanks ChessieCat. I am feeling a lot more positive and although my sleep isn't 100%, I am doing ok. I have yet to establish a consistent sleeping schedule and I really need to stop watching YouTube videos in bed. I have been quite lazy too with exercise, so a bit more of that will surely go a long way. My goal is to return to work in the new year and continue with the slow tapering of medication. I haven't been able to work since March due to hospitalizations and medication screw ups. I am determined to one day prove my doctor wrong who for so many years sentenced told me that I have a medical condition that needs medication for life. The same doctor that on many occasions would CT neuroleptics and other medications and tell me "I told you that you needed it" when the withdrawals would send me to hospital.

 

One thing I am finding difficult is dealing with the resentment that I have towards my (old) doctor. It's not just due to his incompetence and recklessness with medication, but more to do with the way he patronized me and treated me for over 18 years in his care. He convinced me and my family that I was biologically defective and dismissed all my complaints regarding side effects. It wasn't until late this year that he said he couldn't help me any further because he had run out of drugs to try.

 

I know forgiveness is the key etc, but I just don't know how right now.

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.

 

I do understand what you're saying about the "resentment" with your medical treatment.

 

I also am struggling greatly with that and have been for the past few years. 

 

One thing that helps me cope is to think about the tens of millions of people who are on these drugs and struggling, not knowing what's happening. And to remember that was me before I read Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic and then found out about websites such as this one. 

 

We are in the minority of people who are in the know, and we now have the information we need to escape this horror. Most people don't. 

 

For me, these kinds of thoughts keep me from spiraling into anger because I know if I go down that path, the anger will lead to despair. So I'm very careful to direct my thoughts away from that. Despair is a dark place and in withdrawal, it can be a very dangerous place.

 

Do take good care of your thoughts. And remember - where you are now is not where you're going to be when you heal. 

 

We still have a lot of living to do, even though many years of our lives have been spent in this very broken system. 

 

You don't need to know how to forgive right now. You just need to know how to survive. Everything else will work itself out.

 

And know that you're not alone in this. 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I am glad I am on this road but sometimes I do envy the bliss of ignorance. In my case though, the disasterous adverse reactions I have had in the last two years really alerted me that there is something no right with my current "treatment".

 

There is so much more to unravel for me. The worst thing that has happened to me as a result of years on antipsychotics since the age of 18 is that I have being deprived of the opportunity to deal with my trauma - or emotions in general.

 

Every other time that I have come off meds quickly, these emotions and trauma would come back with full force. It's like the medication "freezes" everything, and I guess with slow tapering, things slowly melt and can be dealt with.

 

I think I am dealing with neuroemotions at the moment. I have a lot of trauma from my childhood that I have never dealt with - other than addictive behaviour and psych meds. My goal this time around is to acknowledge it and not react like I have in the past. Unfortunately, in the past when I have expressed my emotions, my family would see that as a symptom of being "unwell" and I would be taken to the doctor for "treatment". A big dose of zyprexa can make trauma vanish within 20 minutes. Unfortunately though, all it has done is disconnect me from myself as I am sure you know.

 

It is sort of scary this journey. I don't really know who I am without drugs or who I will be. It's completely new territory. Everyone around me expects me to be on medication for life for my long-life incurable condition. I feel that after I am off meds that I will be treading on thin ice, lest my behaviour be interpreted as a symptom.

 

Put simply, I am scared of having or expressing emotions thanks to psychiatry and it's dehumanising drugs.

[Shep]

Very insightful post, Rico. I also noticed that "freezing" effect in regards to trauma. 

 

I often refer to psychiatry as a form of "structural violence" because it drugs down child abuse and in many ways, normalizes it, especially for families. 

 

So the fact that family members are very pro-drug is just another symptom of how deep and systemic this is by psychiatry's refusal to go off course from the chemical imbalance theory and deal with root causes - child abuse, domestic violence, poverty, failing schools, income inequality, etc. 

 

For me, I found a sense of complete freedom from the fact that I didn't know who I was off drugs. It gave me a chance to create my own baseline. Coming off six drugs rapid taper and cold turkey nearly killed me (I didn't know about tapering), but it broke my mind and body into pieces, and gave me a chance to start over from scratch, a complete re-build with total control by me and no one else. I found this very empowering. 

 

What is working for me is to surround myself with people who are non-conformists and who view most systems of control, either government or private industry, with suspicion, knowing that in order for people to be helped, they need clean food, affordable housing, and safe schools with art and music education. This is what brings good mental health. 

 

And I have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to my personal connections - I want nothing to do with anyone who subscribes to the chemical imbalance theory. 

 

So what's happening is the more I change and come into my own off drugs, I'm merging into traffic with like-minded people. So there's a lot less fear about it now and a lot more excitement and hope. 

 

I don't know if any of this is relatable to your narrative, but thought I'd share my experiences since I do understand going on drugs at a young age, and the fear of a kind of free-fall effect of coming off decades later. Most of the things I feared never happened, and many things I didn't think possible are happening. It's a very slow and painful process, but the smallest of improvements always bring me joy now. 

 

Try to be kind and compassionate to yourself. Bring in non-drug coping skills slowly and use them to build your new baseline. Talk to your family and friends knowing that they will misunderstand your struggles. They speak in the language of mental illness, while you speak in the language of withdrawal. So until you see some healing, you may have a lot of communication troubles. They will view your exhaustion as a chemical imbalance like major depression, or akathisia as bipolar mania, etc. But as you heal, you'll be able to translate for them. You'll be able to show them that the drugs were causing these symptoms. Again, it's a slow and painful process, and due to these kinds of language barriers, so to speak, it's very isolating. So do a lot of self care, including lots of self soothing coping techniques. 

 

It's definitely survivable. And in many ways, beautiful. 

 

 

[Rico]

Thanks Shep, that's was a lovely post to read.

[Rico]

I have been doing ok lately. I am holding on the 1.625mg of Zyprexa and I have reduced the morning dose of Epilim by 100mg (10%) to try and reduce the sedative side effect of it. So far things are ok.

 

In general, I still feel my brain is quite fragile and I don't handle stress well. Sometimes I think I a man ready to go back to work, other times I sit around fearing that my brain has been permanently damaged.

 

There's still a lot that I need to do such as having a regular sleep routine. At the moment, I have been sleeping and waking up at odd times. My memory is also quite bad, but I do believe that this is from the Epilim.

 

I hope everyone is ok.

 

Thanks

Rico

[Rico]

Hi, I am a bit scared at the moment. I woke up today quite depressed and very low in energy. My brain feels so fragile. I tried to have a nap this afternoon but my brain couldn't switch off. I hope this is just withdrawal symptoms because I keep thinking that something is wrong with me and I'"" be like this forever.

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.

 

Please update your signature, as it looks like you're on less Zyprexa and less Epilim now.

 

Sleep problems are probably the most common withdrawal symptom and it comes from every type of psych drug out there, whether they start of sedating or activating. Your brain "not switching off" is a sign of your CNS being destabilized, so this is very much a withdrawal symptom. No, you will NOT be like this forever. It's temporary. 

 

Since you're doing your tapers a bit differently than we normally recommend (which is coming off one drug at a time), I thought you might like to read a thread by a moderator who is coming off multiple drugs at a time.

 

Taper more than one drug at a time?

 

I look at this type of taper as a more advanced kind, and ideally, you really should know your withdrawal symptom pattern first, as well as how to control the taper with various techniques. 

 

Also, one of the major themes and take-aways in that thread is to go very slow. Actually, it may be the slowness of the taper, as opposed to the strategic targeting of different drugs to taper at different times, that can make or break it. 

 

Just thought I'd list it to give you some background info and guide. 

 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

Thanks for your reply. I have updated my signature.

 

The Zyprexa taper has being going well, however, I found that I felt too slow and sedated after taking the morning medications. I decided to reduce the Epilim by 10% to see if it would help. I think it did, and last week was generally an ok week. Lately though, I have been feeling quite fatigued and a bit depressed.

 

When I take the zyprexa at night (1.625 at the moment), I sort of crash and feel quite sedated and depressed. I go to bed in this state and getting out of bed is very difficult in the morning.

 

I am not sure whether I should continue to taper the Epilim as well as the Zyprexa. I have read through the link you provided (thank you) and I understand that it would be difficult to work out which drug is causing the withdrawal symptoms.

 

It's just that I hate being sedated first thing in the morning when I am already feeling hungover from the Zyprexa from the night before.

 

I will be holding on the current doses for both medications for now, but I am unsure now if I should also taper the Epilim.

 

As for my symptom patterns, I am generally just fatigued and a bit depressed most of the day. I believe that the inability to nap and 'switch off' is more a zyprexa side effect than a destabilized CNS. One of the members here that is tapering the zyprexa has reported to me the same thing.

 

Thanks

Rico

[Rico]

I am really struggling with fatigue / depression at the moment. It has been like this for the last few days. I am struggling to get out of bed and have very little energy during the day.

 

I am not sure if this is part of withdrawal or the zyprexa itself. When I take the zyprexa at night (currently 1.625mg), I become very sedated and somewhat depressed.

 

I have only being on this dose for just over a week. Would a further reduction at the end of this week help or should I hold on this dose?

 

Many thanks