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Akrontes/Distraut: How can I help my son?

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Distraut

Please can someone who has experienced intense ruminations, feelings of guilt and nil self-worth and OCD - like thoughts which don't give a moment's peace give us some hope that these fade with time and will not last for ever!

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DrugfreeProf

Akrontes, actually, you sound like your brain is working quite thoughtfully and logically. You are able to lay out the arguments pro- and con- reinstating. I too am of the mind (like others have stated on this thread) that the psych doctors have NOTHING to offer, especially to anyone in this position of protracted withdrawal. All they have are the meds, which they push, push, push, whether subtly or blatantly (sounds like the doc you recently saw is more subtle). It is because they are trained in this model with all of its lies about "chemical imbalances" and "serious mental illness" and "psychosis" and all that rot, seeing the human being as nothing more than a bunch of molecules and neurons and synapses. In any event, I am glad to hear that at least you were not persuaded into starting back on meds, and at this point, I personally would discourage you from doing so. After all, looking at your history, did the meds ever really do any good, did they accomplish anything for you, make you a better, more thoughtful, more conscious person?   can detect much brilliance in the background of your mind, and in my opinion, the meds would only further mute those abilities. My daughter Lex1992 has been off all meds now for a bit over a year, and her anxiety and strange thoughts have definitely diminished or disappeared.  She spends her time watching videos and doing brain teasing kinds of video games and puzzles, and that is just fine with me as I see her ever so slowly but surely getting better. I know that the same has happened for you and that you are better now than you were six months ago, with more windows than previously.  I do think you need to continue to fight the good fight and keep yourself in a calm, non-stressed, positive state as much as possible. And stay away from doctors!

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nz11
5 hours ago, Distraut said:

Please can someone who has experienced intense ruminations, feelings of guilt and nil self-worth and OCD - like thoughts which don't give a moment's peace give us some hope that these fade with time and will not last for ever!

In my (paroxetine wdl )experience they have and are fading.

Don't give up.

 

DFP makes a good point try to stay calm nonstressed and positive. 

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Distraut

Thank you, as always, for your advice nz11 and DFP.  Akrontes is hyper, hyper anxious at the moment but we are trying to hang on in there.

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powerback
On 12/9/2017 at 10:18 AM, Distraut said:

Please can someone who has experienced intense ruminations, feelings of guilt and nil self-worth and OCD - like thoughts which don't give a moment's peace give us some hope that these fade with time and will not last for ever!

Hi distraut I can empathise so much here ,ive had disgusting intrusive thoughts and Ive got better at catching the thought and distracting myself and not leting it develop into a feeling .its horrible I feel for you and your sons situation so  much .im slowly developing a selfworth that I realised wasnt there for a long time .I had a strong anxiety attack a few hours ago and I let my body calm down in its own time .

Take great care ,we deserve so much peace .

PB

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Distraut

Thank you for your kind words PB.  Unbeknown to me, on Saturday evening my son took a dose of "Simpson cannabis oil " given to him by a well-meaning friend.  He has been highly agitated, howling and freaking out ever since.  What can we expect from this?  I don't know what to do to calm him.

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bheb

Some people have bad reactions to particular types of cannabis, or cannabis at all. But the worst of it often calms down very quickly. Even in the next few hours. Let us know how he's doing.

 

Edit: just looked at that oil. Seems like it might have very high THC. Even before antidepressants, I often got very agitated and terrified from most cannabis with high THC. I'm trying to think of what can help calm him, but in my experience I just had to wait it out. Really nothing could distract. Maybe comforting him in a darkened room?

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DrugfreeProf

High doses of THC can indeed feel terrifying. (Rick) Simpson oil is derived from cannabis flowers/buds using alcohol or some other extraction method, leaving behind an oil that is high in CBDs and THC. It is designed for use by people who have cancer and other serious diseases, and Simpson and others have claimed it actually cures cancer after a couple of months' worth of doses.  I have seen people take too much of it before, as it is indeed very potent, and it can be a really scary experience.  BUT the person ALWAYS comes down and reverts back to normal after several hours, none the worse for wear. Please assure him that he will come out of this and that it did not do him any permanent harm. I'd strongly suggest anyone in WD to stay away from THC for the interim.

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Altostrata

Thank you for reposting the information about magnesium and fish oil.

 

Akrontes, it sounds like you are getting some insight into your situation. It may be difficult because it sounds like you are of an intensely self-blaming disposition, but you must make a distinction between the symptoms you experience from having your nervous system tossed by drugs and the emotions you feel from being helpless and frustrated.

 

The latter emotions, over which you have some control, can exacerbate the base symptoms your struggling nervous system is giving off. As I've said elsewhere, this condition forces us all to be little Buddhas. To get through the very frustrating waves and windows of recovery with the least wear-and-tear on you and your family, you need to calmly observe the symptoms and not draw any conclusions from them about your life being a failure, it's always going to be like this, you're no good, etc. You need to keep the symptoms, which change all the time, at a distance rather than seeing them as who you are.

 

Since you're sleeping and getting periods of calm, it looks to me like you are along in your recovery. Very few psychiatrists understand anything about drug withdrawal syndromes or how people recover from them. The psychiatrist you saw gave you the standard explanation about how mental illness just gets worse and worse (untrue in any case) and must be medicated. They are in the business of prescribing drugs, not assisting recovery.

 

If I were you, I would not rock the boat with drug experiments. The nervous system is a web of delicate nerves communicating with each other through subtle electrochemical messages. Your nervous system is in the process of establishing normal communications right now. It is fragile. Please treat it gently.

 

Along those lines, please understand your self-blaming is felt by your nervous system as harsh blows. All of these thoughts and feelings pass through the nervous system. A negative or self-destructive attitude towards yourself impedes healing.

 

You may do a lot better by learning some meditative techniques to switch on when you start to blame yourself. Please read

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Also, be sure to get at least a half-hour of gentle exercise, such as walking, each day and some natural light, which resets your nervous system.

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akrontes

Thank you for all you support

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akrontes

Hi I thought I would just say just to explain things. There was so many things that I wanted to try and say. Now I am a little calmer I will try and put it simply. I guess my biggest problem has been trying to deal with the obsessions, and this is over the past 8 years, that is what makes it so difficult to make rational decisions and also be able to follow through this withdrawal. Unfortunately in my mind I haven't been doing withdrawal but have just been off medication, as my preoccupations are always these obsessions, I have honestly tried, and find it incredible how people manage to deal with them as such. For example as I said there are a billion things I want to say now, and realise that it is no possible/ beneficial, so then the alternative is to say nothing at all, it is difficult to pick out what stuff is useful/important. It is extremely tricky, I constantly feel the need to justify myself or on the contrary demonstrate to everyone that I recognise that I am useless etc. I will stop now because this is too frustrating, again and this will be the last one, trying to demonstrate to people that I am not taking the piss, but am really just so tormented and confused beyone belief, but then saying that I guess convinces me even more, I really would like to be more constructive in my post but am at a loss. I guess one thing where I can definitely recognise where I could have done more, is in more practical exercises things, but even mindfulness terrorises me and find it difficult to know what I am doing when I am trying to do it. 

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akrontes

Just now I realised again, that I am not on board with this withdrawal, by that I mean, people will tell me these are symptoms and I can understand that but then am not able to apply that understanding to dealing with every second of the day. I guess at the moment my only thing I can try and do is just try and not overthink.

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akrontes

Sorry I am trying now to really read what other people have written to me and told me, I am in the habit, and I don't even realise of reading stuff understanding it ( but probably superficially), I will try now and at least really make sure I understanding what people are telling me.

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powerback
32 minutes ago, akrontes said:

Just now I realised again, that I am not on board with this withdrawal, by that I mean, people will tell me these are symptoms and I can understand that but then am not able to apply that understanding to dealing with every second of the day. I guess at the moment my only thing I can try and do is just try and not overthink.

Hi akronotes ,I totally understand you on the over thinking ,its one of my worsts problems ,if I was to make a visual picture it would be like a car going around new York city's grid system with the speed of a formula one car .its impossible for me to calm my mind .

Take care .

PB 

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Distraut

Please nz11, tell me about your experience of recovering from these OCD thoughts!  How did it clear up for you?  Was it in small steps?  How long did it take before it started to lighten up for you?   What did you do to combat it and get through?

 

My son cannot take it any more and says he should go back on medication as his daily anguish is not diminishing and I frankly cannot take it any more seeing him suffer like this and not knowing what to do.  Silly things that he may do during the day end up being major torments for him.  He feels constant guilt even though he has done nothing wrong.  Is this how you felt?   He does not believe that this is withdrawal like I do and often resents me deferring to this website.

 

 

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nz11

Good morning Distraut.

I am so sorry you have to cope with a family member going through this. You must be at your wits end. 

I'm not sure I can add anything more to what has already been said. 

That post above by Alto is more than excellent.

It has taken years for symptoms to recede. 

Clearly I had a different mindset to Akrontes. The first time I was told it wasn't me it was the drug a lightbulb went on and then I developed an inner unshakeable conviction that that was indeed the case . Confirmed over and over again from books I read. Has akrontes read 'Anatomy of an epidemic' by Whitaker?

 

I used distraction to help me this is the first time I have told anyone this but I enrolled in study by correspondence and did 2, three year bachelor degrees back to back (no cross crediting and I never failed an exam....how I passed anything in the state I was in is beyond my understanding....maybe standards have slipped over the years!)

I got a government student allowance and called it my ssri recovery benefit. So I distracted myself by trying to study. A lot of the time all I could do was try to lie still relax and close my eyes. I would try to go on walks. I was also very very angry at what had been done to me and that drove me to survive and endure and I wrote a lot of complaint letters. 

 

This is not easy and if Akrontes is unable to buy in to this being wdl but would rather believe he has a Prozac chemical imbalance or similar then it is going to be difficult uphill battle. And I don't know there is much more that people can do. 

 

I think you have been an amazing support for akrontes and probably been pushed to limit and more on occasions.

Your health is also important here. You can only do so much.

Akrontes is living in your house so I hope he is appreciative of the help and support being given.

 

1 hour ago, Distraut said:

My son cannot take it any more and says he should go back on medication as his daily anguish is not diminishing and I frankly cannot take it any more

 

You can only do so much 

sa can only repeat itself so many times.

Many links have been provided.

I am about to write a sentence to finish but I just cant bring myself to say it....its against all I believe in. Maybe you can guess what it is.....

 

Sorry I'm not much help

nz11

 

 

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Distraut

Bless you nz11.

 

I think I have an idea what you would like to say, and it is along the lines of "you can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink."

 

I hope my boy will take heart and find a more productive way to banish his demons. 

 

p.s. and bloody well done with your studies!

 

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nz11

Thanks

 

1 hour ago, Distraut said:

I hope my boy will take heart and find a more productive way to banish his demons. 

Lets keep hoping.

At the end of the day if drugs are what akrontes wants then he will have no problem finding a doctor to prescribe them....no clinical assessment and no diagnosis required.

I hope you get to have a relaxing stressfree eventfree  dramas from the children free Christmas and new year. You deserve it.

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Distraut

I just wanted to post a little update on my son Akrontes' progress to date.

 

I am afraid to say that things are going rather badly over the last few weeks after a period where I was hopeful things were slowly improving. We have a holiday flat on the Mediterranean which we were refurbishing this year because last year my son hardly wanted to leave the house.  He came down there with me as the works were nearing completion to help me make the place habitable again but this has proved very stressful for him with all the noise and confusion of builders in addition to the heat. 

 

This is the fifth time we have come down here this year to supervise the works and by far the worst.  He is tormented by racing thoughts, obsessions, derealization, depression and neither of us know what to do. Thankfully we managed somehow to complete what we set out to do and returned to London two days ago.

 

This is all very demoralizing.  It is two years and 3 months since he CT'd Zoloft in May 2016,  He crashed around 5 months in and started taking Remeron but weaned off that slowly over seven months and has not taken anything since June 2017.  When we first came over to start the building works in January, he was in very good form.  This is the fifth trip over this year and by far the worst!  There have been a few good periods this year when I was hopeful that we were on an upward trajectory but these were followed by very nasty relapses.  He cannot remember the good times when he is feeling like now and he has no hope of recovery.  He thinks he is unique and does not want to get advice or consolation from SA.

 

 My son was on various medications for eight years and this has really clobbered him over that time.  I try not to lose hope but am becoming rather exhausted by it all!

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ChessieCat
6 hours ago, Distraut said:

He cannot remember the good times when he is feeling like now and he has no hope of recovery.  He thinks he is unique and does not want to get advice or consolation from SA.

 

I have found that any increase in stress, even good stress, can increase my anxiety.  Even just reading about what your son has gone through with the trip and renovations increased my own anxiety.  Living through it would have worsened things for me too.  It might be helpful to explain to him that it was the trip which caused the stress and the worsening of his symptoms and tell him that now he is home again and back into his usual routine that things will gradually improve.

 

If he can understand why it happened and understand that the situation has now gone back to normal it might help to reduce his fear.  Not understanding creates a second fear which causes additional body and brain reactions.

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Distraut

Thank you dear Chessie Cat.

 

I do hope you are right and things might now improve.

 

My very best wishes to you in your recovery.

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powerback

The line between keeping busy and doing to much can be all too blurred at times.this time too much was tried ,lesson learned and hopefully he can get hes ego in check and not beat himself up 

If we could only see our nervous system too see the stres its put under .

Im trying to give myself a break thismorning ,instead of being selfcritical not working ,ile try enjoy a walk and then visit the hardwear store and get some paint rollers .loads to be done all summer at home but im taking it extremely slow .

Im in the building game and 2 years on I still wear ear muffs going anywhere near jobs when I work ,witch isnt too often these days sadly.

Take care and wishing yous continued healing.

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Distraut

Thank you Powerback.  Your insight is very helpful and indeed things have calmed again since our return.

 

I am still following your postings regularly and wishing you well in your journey.

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akrontes

I am not feeling very good at all. Up until the summer things had seemed manageable. These last couple of months have been constant torment with a few windows. The ocd seems to have got more extreme, constant panic attacks, serious pain in my head(I think mainly from the anxiety)complete turmoil in my body and akathisia. Everything seems to be coming all at the same time as well. On the other hand somehow I am able to do things I was not able to do last year, can go farther a field, go into the city on my own, I don’t go on walks of desperation in the middle of night anymore.Although other things I have lost the ability to do, I couldn’t read last year but really can’t now, with all the intrusive words in my head, likewise cannot really watch tv. The whole way I perceive the world is enormously different than last year, I don’t know for better or for worse. I hope this is just a long wave because I did have better times during the spring. It seems like I may have began to interact with life a bit more which was a step forward, but then successively found it too much dealing with. Also maybe, even in the depths of despair last year I still in some way held on to what I could call “babyish” thinking or more generously “idealistic” thinking. Whereas now see the stark reality of everything and cannot cope. To anyone else these problems would seem ridiculous and trivial. The thing is I have lost my old way( very unsuccessful but at least gave me something to grip onto) way of dealing with things and have not developed a new one. At this point I think I would find it very difficult to “camp out” and keep calm and removed, as Also i do get some form of pleasure from going out a bit and interacting, the problem is it can sometimes backfire. I have not mentioned my Mother who I am still putting through a tremendous amount of stress, and naturally makes me feel extremely guilty. My body is surging with heat and and “liquid-like” anxiety at the moment, which is a slightly new kind of sensation. What I cannot stress enough, merely as of interest is how radically different  things were a year ago, which makes this process so extraordinary. So one thing I can certainly say is that hopefully things will get better, but for certain they change, as my brain feels radically different to a year ago. 

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ChessieCat

Hi Akrontes, I'm really pleased that you have dropped in and posted.  I'm about to go out so don't have time to read your post at the moment but will later.  I just wanted to let you know that I have seen it.

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akrontes

I would just like to share my problem I have with these intrusive words I have suffered with, and have not really come across anything similar. This has been with me for eight years now since my second paroxetine withdrawal, and only abated last year when I was in possibly my worst state, and then as things started to improve earlier this year naturally these intrusive words started to come back, and initially in some ways I kind of welcomed it, as it was something I felt I could manage, as I had been living with it for seven years prior, but of course with time has broken me down and piled on top of everything else. Exposure cbt  therapy seems senseless as well, it does for sure make complete sense when it is localised and it does actually work, on specific problems, but when there is so many things going on, I put all my effort and energy into one set of obsessions, just for others to pop up like “whack a mole” game, just for the original thing to return anyway. Also when I get a moment when I am more relaxed I start working on the obsessions, but is a waste of time because when my body goes into tilt again I can’t do anything about it. 

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akrontes

Thanks Chessie I just wrote another large piece as you posted. I hope I have not gone over the top. 

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akrontes

Just to update as well. I am not taking any supplements, as did not always make me feel great. I do sometimes have magnesium baths. My diet isn’t great but not too bad. My sleeping is from about 6 in the morning to 1 in the afternoon. I smoke which I hope is not a big hindrance to my healing, but definitely exacerbates pain in my head, anxiety. I have tried to stop. I do not manage much meditation or breathing exercises, when I come across a slight window can manage better to do meditation and exercises,  but find it very hard to do when am in panic and with the words in my head. I do walk a bit very, very occasionally swim, and play football maybe once a week.

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ChessieCat

It's good to hear that you have been able to get out and about and do some things.  And no, you didn't go over the top with your posts.

 

Q:  Is there a reason that you sleep from 6am to 1pm?  If you start going to bed a little bit earlier, eg at 5am for a few weeks and then 4 am for a few weeks, you might be able to get into a night time sleep pattern.

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jonnypeters1234567

I find alot more relief at night too, alot of people seem to sleep during the day going through this

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akrontes

I go to bed way before 6 am but cannot get to sleep. I could try getting up at a fixed time regardless of how long I slept, but I feel that my sleep is necessary to manage the day. When I am on a better frame of mind I can generally get to sleep about 3am. At least it is more regular than last year, where often I miss out the whole day sleeping. But I will try to move everything forward by a few hours. 4am to 11am would already be a good start. Thank you 

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jonnypeters1234567
On 8/15/2018 at 10:55 PM, akrontes said:

I am not feeling very good at all. Up until the summer things had seemed manageable. These last couple of months have been constant torment with a few windows. The ocd seems to have got more extreme, constant panic attacks, serious pain in my head(I think mainly from the anxiety)complete turmoil in my body and akathisia. Everything seems to be coming all at the same time as well. On the other hand somehow I am able to do things I was not able to do last year, can go farther a field, go into the city on my own, I don’t go on walks of desperation in the middle of night anymore.Although other things I have lost the ability to do, I couldn’t read last year but really can’t now, with all the intrusive words in my head, likewise cannot really watch tv. The whole way I perceive the world is enormously different than last year, I don’t know for better or for worse. I hope this is just a long wave because I did have better times during the spring. It seems like I may have began to interact with life a bit more which was a step forward, but then successively found it too much dealing with. Also maybe, even in the depths of despair last year I still in some way held on to what I could call “babyish” thinking or more generously “idealistic” thinking. Whereas now see the stark reality of everything and cannot cope. To anyone else these problems would seem ridiculous and trivial. The thing is I have lost my old way( very unsuccessful but at least gave me something to grip onto) way of dealing with things and have not developed a new one. At this point I think I would find it very difficult to “camp out” and keep calm and removed, as Also i do get some form of pleasure from going out a bit and interacting, the problem is it can sometimes backfire. I have not mentioned my Mother who I am still putting through a tremendous amount of stress, and naturally makes me feel extremely guilty. My body is surging with heat and and “liquid-like” anxiety at the moment, which is a slightly new kind of sensation. What I cannot stress enough, merely as of interest is how radically different  things were a year ago, which makes this process so extraordinary. So one thing I can certainly say is that hopefully things will get better, but for certain they change, as my brain feels radically different to a year ago. 

 

I know excactly what you mean by this. We lose our buffer as the years go by, and have to start from scratch with coping. How are you today?

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akrontes

Sorry I just saw this. Today has been ok. I will try replying better tomorrow. Am quite tired actually, so may get to sleep a bit earlier, yesterday I somehow by chance manage to do more or less what i had said in my previous post sleep from 4am til 11am, and I may even get to sleep now, so guess that is quite good at least. Hope you are doing well. Thanks. Talk soon

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PoetJester

Hi Akrontes

 

i had read your posts a while back and had meant to respond a long time ago (almost 2 years now), but i am often so wiped out over these days i never get around to it.  I am glad to see you are at least posting occasionally on here.  When i read your introductory post i could definitely relate to your thinking.  I have had about the exact same thoughts at different times in my life- especially where everything i do is wrong to the point of almost feeling cursed and of not wanting to do anything for fear of bringing harm accidentally.     i have also been thinking  a lot lately with the nature of good and evil in the world or Heaven and Hell as you had mentioned in your first post.    it seems like for me going to hospitals reminds me of the evil or hell thing these days-  vanity, cruelty, deceit   in large quantities at those places.  

 

   one of the things that i found to help me was staying busy or working.  i began doing volunteer park clean up at nearby lakes,  (although the uk is probably not quite as filthy as America) and later began biking to nearby to golf courses to hunt golf balls that i would sell online.   with the park clean up, i would also, besides filling a couple plastic grocery bags with trash sometimes find collectible junk- toys, fishing equipment that i thought was kind of fun.   Some fishing lures i cut the hooks off of and turned into key-chains to give away and my floating fishing bobber collection got to be pretty extensive.  Being outside helped immensely with the depressive nature of apartment living and gave me a chance to connect to the  Earth and feel a little more alive again and also helped my own creativity and gave me topics to write on in both journal and poetry.     i am not sure if this good advice, but it has been something i have enjoyed and has been an adventure of sorts also.   anyways, i would write more, but i am exhausted and it's late over here, and i am probably not saying much anyways, but i did want to say "hey"  and i  i hope you are doing ok over there.  

 

poetjester.

 

ps.  sorry, for the disjointed nature of my writing.  i am finding writing pretty difficult these days.  i have had an untreated bacterial infection and partial blockage in my stomach for two years, that my doctors ignored which culminated in a  ammonia overload in my body two weeks ago, and has affected my brains and balance considerably the past two weeks.   i had gone to my doctor complaining of kidney pains and smelling ammonia on my body and breath in April and she had basically denied me treatment and said i could check myself into a mental hospital if i wanted (seemed a bit weird, for a kidney problem) and now i am experiencing pretty awful balance issues.  anyhow.

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akrontes

Hi Jester thank you for your kind post. I hope you are doing ok. Sorry I do not really know what to write tonight. Am in a pretty bad way. Hope to speak soon

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