powerback: tapering no 2

[India]

I spend many hours self-flaggelating and replaying perceived rejections, ending up in downward emotional spirals. They are hard to stop, no? I am unsure where my perception begins and reality ends. Self destructive mechanisms have been used for survival often. They worked at some point. Think trauma- need to escape - alcohol . Then the alcohol becomes the crux but exacerbates. Thought processes can be like that too. Unlearning our self loathing is a tough process.

[bhasski]

23 minutes ago, India said:

I spend many hours self-flaggelating and replaying perceived rejections, ending up in downward emotional spirals. They are hard to stop, no?

 

Yes they are as we have been narrowed to the scope of withdrawals.

 

I still believe that it would be easier to go through when this gloom is over.

 

 

[intothewoods]

On 3/23/2019 at 8:03 AM, powerback said:

im so furious, im even going to say that I was using power tools ,who in the world uses dangerous power tools while in withdrawl

PB, I know I'm a late on this but now catching up with your thread while I'm on holiday (in bed... yes, you knew 😂)   and.... I use power tools in WD. I've done more damage shaving my legs in the shower with akathisia. Granted I don't use big circular saws so maybe it's a girl thing. 

 

I think you were pretty noble and cool to want to help your mate with a project.  I wonder if you have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Overdoing it can cause massive mental distortion like a hangover for many days, which is what you describe. @Carmie and I have CFS and been through it as a side gig to ADWD. Maybe you just had a side gig. 

 

Hope you're on the mend. You're a good guy! 

 

Catherine 

[powerback]

12 hours ago, intothewoods said:

PB, I know I'm a late on this but now catching up with your thread while I'm on holiday (in bed... yes, you knew 😂)   and.... I use power tools in WD. I've done more damage shaving my legs in the shower with akathisia. Granted I don't use big circular saws so maybe it's a girl thing. 

 

I think you were pretty noble and cool to want to help your mate with a project.  I wonder if you have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Overdoing it can cause massive mental distortion like a hangover for many days, which is what you describe. @Carmie and I have CFS and been through it as a side gig to ADWD. Maybe you just had a side gig. 

 

Hope you're on the mend. You're a good guy! 

 

Catherine 

Hi ITW i came across a disparaging saying thismorning."the perseverance of an idiot".this is exactly what I did last week .this isn't about being harsh on myself ,its fact .I have set myself back months and I can barely even look at myself in the mirror.

Your on the correct track with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Thanks for your visit and happy holidays.

[dj2010]

3 minutes ago, powerback said:

Hi ITW i came across a disparaging saying thismorning."the perseverance of an idiot".this is exactly what I did last week .this isn't about being harsh on myself ,its fact .I have set myself back months and I can barely even look at myself in the mirror.

Your on the correct track with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Thanks for your visit and happy holidays.

 

sorry to hear still suffering pb, doubt be a set back of months though, probably be back to baseline within a couple weeks, usually takes around 2 weeks with me when for my nervous system to settle after being upset from over exertion at gym etc, dont be so hard on yourself!

 

take care

[powerback]

On 3/26/2019 at 8:17 AM, India said:

I spend many hours self-flaggelating and replaying perceived rejections, ending up in downward emotional spirals. They are hard to stop, no? I am unsure where my perception begins and reality ends. Self destructive mechanisms have been used for survival often. They worked at some point. Think trauma- need to escape - alcohol . Then the alcohol becomes the crux but exacerbates. Thought processes can be like that too. Unlearning our self loathing is a tough process.

Hi india sorry to hear you suffer with the same issues .withdrawal is my biggest trauma by far.

Take care

[thecowisback]

please be kinder to yourself powerback. you helped a friend and that in itself should make you feel good. it might set you back for a little while but you're catastrophising by thinking this is going to set you back for months. i know because i am the master of negative thinking! you did a good thing and you need to rest up and recharge ready for the next task you set yourself. you did good - keep telling yourself that! 💙

[powerback]

Just now, dj2010 said:

 

sorry to hear still suffering pb, doubt be a set back of months though, probably be back to baseline within a couple weeks, usually takes around 2 weeks with me when for my nervous system to settle after being upset from over exertion at gym etc, dont be so hard on yourself!

 

take care

Do you fancy living in my head DJ ,I could do with your optimism counter acting my furoius self loathing,ile pay lol.

Hopefully its only weeks .thanks mate .I hope your well.

[powerback]

2 minutes ago, thecowisback said:

please be kinder to yourself powerback. you helped a friend and that in itself should make you feel good. it might set you back for a little while but you're catastrophising by thinking this is going to set you back for months. i know because i am the master of negative thinking! you did a good thing and you need to rest up and recharge ready for the next task you set yourself. you did good - keep telling yourself that! 💙

Hi TCIB ,sadly ive done enough research on the body to know I have been damaging myself.last week was the first time in months ive done anything ( I have even put off projects around the house).

Thanks for your kind words ,I know I must find sympathy or im in trouble .

My partner is a saint because I was feeling a little better just before I did this so its a harsh set back.I cant even bare a tcking clock in the room .

Keep up your good work and take care.

Thanks

[powerback]

The window and waves pattern ,im starting to question this is in my own case .my world is starting to implode and it seems inevitable I will be in a hospital soon ,im in bits ,whether its withdrawl or the meds causing this seems not to matter anymore ,the powers that be will eventually get me .maybe I am "a case " that's different .

the fact the drugs could be the cause of the state im in kind of makes no difference anymore because im a few months off 3 years of this fiasco and remarkably worse

.I totally  see why the merry go round of "your condition is back" will always be given as an excuse ,but if we weren't this bad before ,how is that explained and obsorbed by DRs .How do we ever over come these massive odds of ten thousand to one .[number picked from my head].

There's aspects to my personality that I cant ignore but then why am I so against these diagnosis that are being banded around .By the looks of it people are glad to get a diagnosis and move on with there lives but I fight it and reject it .maybe im nearly out of fight and I will accept these diagnosis ,get my meds and move on .

I question the fact the non coping skills do nothing for me ,100 % of my day is witnessing my raging rumination critical thoughts .its simply unsustainable .my mind will give up before my stubborn will to survive .I already feel im there.

Thanks for letting me express my feelings on a very heavy day .I will retreat to my bunker once again but sadly it is adding to my misery .

Take care.

   

[thecowisback]

so sorry to hear things aren't going well. i have no advice, just thinking of you xx 

[powerback]

24 minutes ago, thecowisback said:

so sorry to hear things aren't going well. i have no advice, just thinking of you xx 

Ah your very kind TCIB ,no need for words ,I just needed to  express myself .

I do wonder am I addicted to this madness being an addict ,its quite embarrassing along time ago at this rate , it mite be easier to just go with the system ,at least my family and loved ones can relax then ,whether its correct for me to be put away or not is steadily become a non issue

.it mite get to a point were it doesn't matter if I believe in diagnosis or not.

I ran into my mother while out today ,I dreaded it when I seen her because I was in a lot of pain with my back and hips so my mood was rock bottom  [I don't actually like seeing  her being upset ] ,I was passionate about the state of my situation but my mam is from a generation were that kind of expression is a negative ,men being angry when she grew up didn't end well

.she suggestion a hospital so you could imagine my reaction ,I was civil .im questioning my own judgement now because its gone on so long .I was house bound for 8 or 9 days before I went out today and anymore days like today will have me running into the wilderness for ever .

 Im balling crying here after seeing her face ,I feel so sorry for her and myself ,its a healthier feeling than being numbed ,I see this 🙏.

Take  care. 

 

 

[intothewoods]

1 hour ago, powerback said:

but if we weren't this bad before ,how is that explained and obsorbed by DRs .How do we ever over come these massive odds of ten thousand to one .[number picked from my head].

 

It's NOT you, PB. It's the meds. You gave the most conclusive evidence of all: "If we weren't this bad before...." We were nothing like this before. And "how is that explained and absorbed by DRs" -- they don't care. They don't all feel this way. My doctor of 20 years is grieved at all of it, sees it all,  will not prescribe them to new patients any more and has zero doubt, as top internal medicine doc for 25 yrs with a cardiologist husband and three clinics -- ZERO doubt that what SA says and what we experience is real and life-shattering. 

 

I have been mostly in your space since I left for my trip, or started packing for my trip a week ago. Yesterday I told myself I will just give in and go to some institution and wither away in a drugged stupor because I cannot face life and people thinking I'm so totally whacked. 

 

But it's not true. We will get our lives back and we don't think rational. @brassmonkey writes alot about that -- our brains are tricking us. Yes, it's evil but look at the evil in the world. It's never been worse (another discussion, I know, and that's my opinion on societal structure now vs years ago). 

 

Effexor is a horrific WD and you may have another year, or only a few months. What matters is that it will be over. FOR SURE. 

 

If it doesn't end in ???? years, then you can decide to bail. But for now, please hang on because statistically, you aren't in the home stretch yet. Me neither. I still have four meds to jettison. I could let that swallow me up and do sometimes but then, I look at the facts. @Rhiannon's  journey is amazing, also @pug's.

 

I say nothing you don't already know but what you would tell me in reverse.  

 

Hold on for now! 

 

Catherine 

[powerback]

23 minutes ago, intothewoods said:

 

It's NOT you, PB. It's the meds. You gave the most conclusive evidence of all: "If we weren't this bad before...." We were nothing like this before. And "how is that explained and absorbed by DRs" -- they don't care. They don't all feel this way. My doctor of 20 years is grieved at all of it, sees it all,  will not prescribe them to new patients any more and has zero doubt, as top internal medicine doc for 25 yrs with a cardiologist husband and three clinics -- ZERO doubt that what SA says and what we experience is real and life-shattering. 

 

I have been mostly in your space since I left for my trip, or started packing for my trip a week ago. Yesterday I told myself I will just give in and go to some institution and wither away in a drugged stupor because I cannot face life and people thinking I'm so totally whacked. 

 

But it's not true. We will get our lives back and we don't think rational. @brassmonkey writes alot about that -- our brains are tricking us. Yes, it's evil but look at the evil in the world. It's never been worse (another discussion, I know, and that's my opinion on societal structure now vs years ago). 

 

Effexor is a horrific WD and you may have another year, or only a few months. What matters is that it will be over. FOR SURE. 

 

If it doesn't end in ???? years, then you can decide to bail. But for now, please hang on because statistically, you aren't in the home stretch yet. Me neither. I still have four meds to jettison. I could let that swallow me up and do sometimes but then, I look at the facts. @Rhiannon's  journey is amazing, also @pug's.

 

I say nothing you don't already know but what you would tell me in reverse.  

 

Hold on for now! 

 

Catherine 

Hi intothewoods ,I love your name ,very apt for how I feel ,I need 4 pairs of socks on in the house so running into the woods isn't an option lol.

I suppose it depends on circumstances how long we can keep the wolf from the door [the system].

Theres a lot wrong in my history before ever being medicated so I feel like the emperor without he's clothes lately .

The questions I obsess  over with my past brings me  to the door of phyciatry that use the DSM .so all they think is "this man comes to us and rejects us " ,so all the wells are drying up for me thus im painting myself into corners constantly lol.

Oh yes ,my lord how my mind is playing tricks on me ,I feel like the Manchurian candidate with what my mind tells me . 

Sorry to hear you feel awful on your hols .

Take care 

[intothewoods]

The Manchurian Candidate -- that's it! You always make us laugh. I still picture the Spanish Inquisition every day. 😅

 

The woods are a sanctuary but really, as @Carmie says: "I'm happiest in nature." I know you like to take walks and hope you get to that that again soon.

 

Thank you for the kind words. Yea, it's a bugger feeling this way on holiday but anywhere. Yet with SA (you are like a rock star on SA, PB  ), we gain focus again. And comfort. 

 

Take care and we're all in this together!

[powerback]

11 minutes ago, intothewoods said:

The Manchurian Candidate -- that's it! You always make us laugh. I still picture the Spanish Inquisition every day. 😅

LOL im here all day ,ive put my Everest expedition on hold for a week or two lol.

11 minutes ago, intothewoods said:

The woods are a sanctuary but really, as @Carmie says: "I'm happiest in nature." I know you like to take walks and hope you get to that that again soon.

Mite take up nature walks , the oh natural way [naked ],ile soon be asked am I off my meds then wouldn't I lol.

I can be that jumpy if I step on a twig it frightens me lol.

11 minutes ago, intothewoods said:

ike a rock star on SA, PB

 ah Rockstar without a note in he's head ,ide be good at smashing guitars ,that's for sure lol. 

 

[Altostrata]

pb, have you tried adding a bit more Effexor? How did that go?

[powerback]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

pb, have you tried adding a bit more Effexor? How did that go?

Hi Alto ,I added another crumb 2 days ago .

[Altostrata]

How many crumbs of Effexor are you taking each day? Do you feel any effects from it?

[powerback]

5 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How many crumbs of Effexor are you taking each day? Do you feel any effects from it?

Oh sorry ,im taking 2 crumbs ,about a third of one tablet [3 small ones in a 37.5mg capsule] ,so about 4mg ,a bit high ?

I must not forget I'm still getting over my "wally brained debacle last week .

[Altostrata]

Do you feel anything from taking the Effexor?

[powerback]

10 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Do you feel anything from taking the Effexor?

Hard to tell 4 days in,some nasty symptoms but I cant pinpoint what there from , the Effexor? the Prozac? my wally brained setback ? .could be a mix of all Alto .ile keep a  closer look with the added Effexor . 

[Altostrata]

Can you take the Effexor at a different time of day than the Prozac? That might make it clearer.

[powerback]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Can you take the Effexor at a different time of day than the Prozac? That might make it clearer.

Ok thanks Alto ill do that .wally brained projects are strictly on hold for months .I already cancelled one for next week .I could see my mind talking myself into it yesterday,hilarious lol.

Take care.

[powerback]

I binged watched this over 2 evenings [amazing distraction for me ,every second of rumination switched off for me  ].highly recommend it .Don't google anything about it or its ruined .

Rejoice and enjoy. 

[powerback]

On 3/26/2019 at 8:17 AM, India said:

 

 

On 3/30/2019 at 6:54 PM, Altostrata said:

Can you take the Effexor at a different time of day than the Prozac? That might make it clearer.

7 days at adding 2nd crumb and all hell broke loose.to sumerise im basically shaking with anxiety and mental anguish.the energy im putting into the simplest things is shocking.

Have DRs  onfriday friday and how do I keep a straight face and talk about getting a drug again that I originally said was harming me while im shaking in front of him .

Ile be carted away .oh the joys.

Please ignore the qoutes,im on my phone , hate posting off a phone.

Anyway thanks .

[Altostrata]

PB, is this something that happened just today? Do you feel any effect from the Effexor after you take it?

 

Do you still have the Xanax? Can you ask your doctor for diazepam?

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

PB, is this something that happened just today? Do you feel any effect from the Effexor after you take it?

 

Do you still have the Xanax? Can you ask your doctor for diazepam?

The last couple of days its gotten ridiculous Alto .

I have xnax ,took one the other night ,very low dose,they dont give you many so im not in a position to be taking them.

Is diazepam different?.

I could easily be still dealing with my wally brained project fall out from 2 weeks ago .

Will I stick with the 2 crumbs?

Will I ask for the imideate release effexor?

Thanks alto.

 

[Altostrata]

pb, we need to find out if the Effexor crumbs are doing anything good. What times of day do you take Prozac, what times do you take Effexor?

 

You need to attend to how you feel in the hours after you take Effexor. We need to know this to figure out the next step.

 

Diazepam has a very long half-life, more than 4 days, compared to Xanax. A little bit of diazepam goes a long way. Taken for a short time, it may settle your nervous system down enough for it to start rebuilding.

 

You'd have to take a bit of Xanax several times a day for the same effect.

[powerback]

6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

pb, we need to find out if the Effexor crumbs are doing anything good. What times of day do you take Prozac, what times do you take Effexor?

 

You need to attend to how you feel in the hours after you take Effexor. We need to know this to figure out the next step.

 

Diazepam has a very long half-life, more than 4 days, compared to Xanax. A little bit of diazepam goes a long way. Taken for a short time, it may settle your nervous system down enough for it to start rebuilding.

 

You'd have to take a bit of Xanax several times a day for the same effect.

Im 2 or 3 days into taking the effexor two hours after the prozac ,too early to tell but so far nothing positive .

My mental state is very unnerving ,makes me wonder if its the prozac.

Im also overwhelmed ridiculously easy .

Ile ask DR for diazepam.but there's a huge problem with getting these drugs off them because of the prevalence of them on the streets,everyone is tarred with the same brush.

At this rate ile be getting them from the streets myself ha.

[Altostrata]

Yes, right, we know it can be hard to get a benzo prescription.

 

After you take 2 crumbs Effexor, you don't feel anything from it?

 

I've asked @Shep to check in here.

[Shep]

20 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

I've asked @Shep to check in here.

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Diazepam has a very long half-life, more than 4 days, compared to Xanax. A little bit of diazepam goes a long way. Taken for a short time, it may settle your nervous system down enough for it to start rebuilding.

 

You'd have to take a bit of Xanax several times a day for the same effect.

 

 

@powerback  Just a few questions:

• Is the Xanax helping you when you take it? 
• How often are you taking it?
• Do you feel that any of your symptoms may be rebound from periodic Xanax use?
• Have you ever been on Valium? If so, how did you respond to it?

 

Please note that Valium is usually experienced as more sedating by a lot of people, so if you're struggling with insomnia and anxiety, it may be helpful. However, if you're struggling with depression, some people find that Valium can make depression worse. 

 

Regarding Valium's half life, if can be up to 200 hours (8 days) if you are a slow metabolizer,  which can make it easier to become dependent on should you take it on an "as needed" basis. 

 

If the Xanax is working "as needed", the half life is 6 - 12 hours.

 

So if you do decide to use a benzo, just some facts that may be helpful. 

 

I hope you're feeling better soon, PB. 

 

 

 

[powerback]

11 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

 

@powerback  Just a few questions:

• Is the Xanax helping you when you take it? 
• How often are you taking it?
• Do you feel that any of your symptoms may be rebound from periodic Xanax use?
• Have you ever been on Valium? If so, how did you respond to it?

 

Please note that Valium is usually experienced as more sedating by a lot of people, so if you're struggling with insomnia and anxiety, it may be helpful. However, if you're struggling with depression, some people find that Valium can make depression worse. 

 

Regarding Valium's half life, if can be up to 200 hours (8 days) if you are a slow metabolizer,  which can make it easier to become dependent on should you take it on an "as needed" basis. 

 

If the Xanax is working "as needed", the half life is 6 - 12 hours.

 

So if you do decide to use a benzo, just some facts that may be helpful. 

 

I hope you're feeling better soon, PB. 

 

 

 

Hi shep ,I.took a Xanax sunday about 2100 and felt very content and relaxed in 30 mins (oh my if I could bottle that feeling).oh my I can see why people would get hooked with the relaxation thst came over me.

I took one lastnight and it didnt seem to be as affective .

Ive never taking them for more than 2  nights in a row.

I have Never been on valium .

I reckon im a fast motabiliser.

Thanks shep for your insight.

 

[powerback]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, right, we know it can be hard to get a benzo prescription.

 

After you take 2 crumbs Effexor, you don't feel anything from it?

 

I've asked @Shep to check in here.

Thanks Alto ,ile keep thrashing away at it.

For know ide say I feel awful after taking it but ile keep watching it.

[Shep]

4 hours ago, powerback said:

Hi shep ,I.took a Xanax sunday about 2100 and felt very content and relaxed in 30 mins (oh my if I could bottle that feeling).oh my I can see why people would get hooked with the relaxation thst came over me.

I took one lastnight and it didnt seem to be as affective .

Ive never taking them for more than 2  nights in a row.

I have Never been on valium .

I reckon im a fast motabiliser.

Thanks shep for your insight.

 

Thanks for the information, PB.

 

You write you never take them 2 nights in a row, but how many times a week are you taking them?

 

The reason I'm asking is to see if you may be developing a dependency and / or getting rebound or paradoxical reactions.

 

 

[powerback]

5 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Thanks for the information, PB.

 

You write you never take them 2 nights in a row, but how many times a week are you taking them?

 

The reason I'm asking is to see if you may be developing a dependency and / or getting rebound or paradoxical reactions.

 

 

Ive taking them twice in 7 days lately.

Its is only 250 micro gram dose.

I had vivid dreams and woke up groggy after lastnights dose ,so im not sure if that's the cause.

Thanks shep.