raven530: 10 months since Sertraline cold turkey

[raven530]

So in the last few weeks I've seen significant improvements with my anhedonia (though nothing has changed when it comes to sexual problems). Usually the improvements I see wither away after a day or so but this time the changes have lingered.

My anxiety has returned, this sucks but I feel much better equipped to tackle it now that I've suffered with PSSD for a year. I guess it's the most promising sign that my brain is returning to normal too. It's possible that this indicates some truth to the 'anhedonia is the brains way of protecting us from further trauma' theory, maybe 
I've felt peaceful being outside during pleasant evenings, normally anything nice used to make me feel depressed because I couldn't appreciate it at all but during the past few weeks I've been appreciating little things like spring flowers or nice architecture a lot more.
Been enjoying reading and had more stamina for it too.
Felt energetic listening to music.
Felt jealous when I saw that my ex girlfriend has moved on
Felt sadness just thinking in bed 

I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near recovered from anhedonia but definitely these are huge steps in the right direction.

Changes I've made:
For the past few months I've been focusing a lot on improving my lifestyle just in general:
Started on all the common supplements 6 months ago: omega 3, vit c, magnésium, multivitamin (don't need vit d cause my levels are high)
Been exercising almost every day
Tried to stay off the internet as much as possible - wasted a ton of time just mindlessly browsing/arguing with people about dumb **** because it's the only thing I felt capable of doing - even reading a book was just too tough during the first 10 months, this was really a big change for me, seems like since getting PSSD I've been addicted to negativity be it through reading horrendous PSSD stories or arguing with people I disagree with on Reddit obsessively. Think taking some time off helped my general mood and helped my brain adapt to more cognitively strenuous activity like reading
Journaling My thoughts
Reading about the brain
Getting outside and going for walks, even when I feel anxious 

Changes are still happening so I'll update in another month or so but things are looking promising and I am feeling very optimistic about recovering fully from anhedonia (for me it's always been the worst part of all this)

Wrote this on the PSSD forum a few days ago, unfortunately in the last day things have gone back to normal but still, it's good progress. I also realised that it's more than losing emotions for me.. It's like my whole inner monologue and world gets shut down, my brain is so empty right now it'd be hard to have a discussion with someone face to face cause I just don't think I'd have much to say. 

[nicolantana]

Amazing update man!! Fantastic to hear.

[raven530]

Since my positive window I've really noticed how prevalent the 'empty brain' feeling is when I'm not feeling as good. In fact it could be responsible for quite a few of the other symptoms. Before I couldn't clear my head there were just too many thoughts flowing through it but now it's the easiest thing in the world and I can't think deeply about anything.

[nicolantana]

oh i hear you man. my head and heart is empty most of the time. But there is definitely progress. my only real worry is what if I never fully function again...Everything else I will handle

[raven530]

Yeah for me too, have you had anymore windows? My functioning during windows improves with each one, but they're spaced so far apart that it takes months to get to my next peak which is really frustrating. I think even for me there is a lot of hope for full recovery and for you if they're spaced closer together then I'm even more optimistic. 

[nicolantana]

no more windows man. I've had three weeks of intense Anhedonia. Going by trends so far, that only tell me something good is around the corner.

And yes, I would also say my windows are stronger each time..any yes, optimism is vital!!

[nicolantana]

Also, had an interesting if somewhat irresponsible experiment at the weekend.

 

Some people I know who cannot comprehend the situation (naturally, it's a very unique experience)...so I told a relative get out his whiskey and I drank half a bottle of whiskey straight. I'm not even a drinker, ordinarily one beer would knock me........reaction to half a bottle of whiskey? nada. No change in mood or behaviour and no hangover. Needless to say, people then understood and were shocked by severity of the situation. A one off unhealthy choice that might set my brain back, but a worthwhile action to convey the condition to people.

[nicolantana]

How are you currently??? I haven't had a good moment in 3.5 weeks...longest stretch yet and man is it torture

[raven530]

sorry to hear it... same here, 10 days into my wave, last time it was a couple of months which was extremely frustrating

[nicolantana]

yeah frustrating isn't the word. good to hear from someone who has been through it though....I might of asked you before but what are your waves like?? mine are just like non existence.....no desire, motivation, rewards, thoughts, emotions. I just about muster a little walk and look forward to sleep....and hope for  better tomorrow...

[raven530]

Just a complete void. Exactly how you described. My minds eye is empty, no passion, no feeling. Truly a degree away from death. Used to spend all my time on the computer doing nothing but I do do a bit of exercise and reading now, but ultimately it still feels like lost time. I think the extreme pit of this experience is in the past but my current waves are still only 10% better than my very worst waves.

[raven530]

Always wanted to go into academia when I was a bit older. I just don't have the brain for it anymore, it is incredibly depressing. Only thing I'm able to do is mark time.

[nicolantana]

Hang in there man! Tomorrow could be the day when things come back.

 

I can't believe what my brain has become either.

 

Is anybody suing these companies?

[raven530]

It's tough man, just waiting for that next window.

We can't sue, they've covered all bases by including these side effects on their labels. Maybe one day there'll be a class action lawsuit

[raven530]

Something that's really been bumming me out recently (apart from the whole not being able to feel emotions thing) is poor visualisation. I remember before I took these meds closing my eyes and feeling like I had a personal IMAX cinema in my head. Everything was so vivid and colourful and crisp, now I can barely see anything, my whole style of learning has had to change, it takes me a lot longer to understand anything that requires good visualisation, I can't run memories through my head like before (probably why I'm not anxious anymore). Wonder if anyone's seen any improvement with this... It's not a symptom that's talked about much

[raven530]

Exchanged a couple of letters with my ex apologising for my complete emotional detachment. Probably a bad idea, because it's been killing me recently, knowing that the relationship crumbled due to forces out of my control, knowing that I can't just move on like any other normal person would, because I have no desire to now, knowing that everyone else can move forwards whilst I'm just stuck in the same place seeing all my potential gradually slip away.. 

 

[PoetJester]

Hey Raven,

 

I just wanted to add some commiseration to your May 19th post.  I seem almost entirely unable to visualize now, be it reading a book or daydreaming.  It's like my imagination is drying up.   I also sometimes start to remember things but not how they actually happened.   I have read this in other places on this site of people saying their memories become warped or deformed. 

 

poetjester

[raven530]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jun/04/aphantasia-no-visual-imagination-impact-learning

"

All great science breakthroughs have involved constructing 'models in the mind' and testing them through the process known as 'metacognition'. Einstein developed his theory of Special Relativity by imaging what it would be like to travel on a beam of light. Newton's Laws of motion become comprehensible by imagining experiments carried out in lifts moving at constant speed and accelerating under 'free fall'. Memorising the Laws by rote assists understanding of them not at all.

Testing models in the head in order to make personal meaning is an essential part of all deep learning. This is of crucial importance given that our education system has been corrupted by marketisation into substituting such deep learning approaches by the memory-based behaviourism of training rather than education."

Pretty bleak reading for me.. Always wanted to go into science but visual imagination is one of my biggest issues, and it's the issue I haven't seen much improvement with. Ability has been greatly reduced as a result.

[PoetJester]

hey Raven

 

yeah,

 

the people who discovered great scientific breakthroughs probably had restorative sleep and didn't suffer from brain fog and empty head.  i certainly understand the feeling of potential going away.  i feel about like a roman candle being shot down a toilet or a car kept in neutral or park with someone gunning the engine. 

 

 on a lighter note,  i was able to read a short story recently.  it was Sherwood Anderson's "I am a Fool" and was 15 pages long.   it was just about a poor kid who gets a job taking care of race horses and meets a girl at the race track one day.  it was nice to know i haven't completely lost the ability to concentrate for extended periods, although i used to read full novels with great enjoyment.  hope things turn around for you and you have another window soon. 

 

poetjester

[raven530]

Thanks poetjester, good to hear that you were able to read that story, maybe see if you can read one every week now? And try to work upwards from there? This time last year I couldn't read novels at all, now I can, though lack of visualisation and numbed emotions makes it a lot less enjoyable. My sleep is pretty ok, I don't have vivid dreams anymore of course, but I do have foggy ones and I can sleep solidly.

[raven530]

I remember closing my eyes with a youtube video playing and visually imagining the person in the video speaking the audio in realtime, now I can't even imagine the face of a good friend. I feel pretty isolated when it comes to this symptom, not a lot of people complaining about it. 

[raven530]

and just like that all the progress I felt I'd made in the 6 weeks withers away.. Past 8 days have been as bad as the worst of it. PSSD is a b****. Doesn't help that the one doctor who's studied it is incredibly negative (Healy) 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by ChessieCat
removed obscenity

[PoetJester]

hey Raven530

 

6 weeks of progress sounds pretty good.  hopefully, it's a sign and will return again soon for you.  Still draggin' over here.  Wondering how I could have gone about this wd differently.  Not a lot of hope, but i am trying to keep plodding along.  All I do nowadays is 2 or 3 times a week go looking for golf balls at local courses (i sell them online) and the rest of the time is facebook, this site, online supplement searches, online dating (no one seems to want to date zombies) and just putzing around on my bike to stores.  no social life to speak of and i look and feel pretty awful most days.  i can't seem to keep up with house chores or paying bills on time or making appts anymore, because i am either too tired or lethargic most of the time.  it sucks having to keep having to take care of everyday things when i am still suffering the wd stuff.  either i get discouraged at the way my health has continued to decline or else how little help and understanding i have received and becomes hard to care anymore.     

 

i am now also battling all sorts of digestive problems that are probably wd related.  constant bloating and constipation and i never feel hungry anymore.  i even developed a sudden onset alcohol intolerance where i get violently ill from just one beer or drink.  something to do with bacteria in the gut and not being able to break down alcohol and it just going straight into the liver.  i had had a few beers a month earlier and had been ok except for my depressed sleep, but now, one or two pints and an hour later i am vomiting like i drank everything behind the bar and feel close to death.   i looked online and it's kind of a common occurrence, but doctors over here aren't very familiar with it or keen on treating it.  i find out everything online and then talk to my doctors who even though they aren't familiar with the problem shoot down all my ideas for treatment.  i had read how it could be cleared up with an anti biotic that kills off the bacteria overgrowth in the small intestine (SIBO), but my doctor wouldn't write me a script without a diagnosis, but then they don't do tests for the condition.  i am stuck in the old catch 22.  one nurse told me just don't drink beer anymore which would be fine except i am nauseous often and have no appetite and my belly looks pregnant.   the doctors over here just don't care much and aren't very knowledgeable.  there is a total disconnect between regular gps and information about illnesses and treatments that you can find online.  it's the same way with psych meds and withdrawal.   anyways. 

 

Poetjester . 

[raven530]

This is going to sound pretty stupid, but does anyone have difficulties smiling now? Since quitting meds I feel like I've lost my genuine smile and it just makes interacting with people so much more difficult, everything feels unnatural, I guess it makes sense with numb emotions, but before I could fake smiles whereas now I can't even do that 

[ChessieCat]

When we think about windows and waves I think we consider more major or obvious things.  However one of the things the drugs do is numb emotions so it makes sense that we could notice differences in how we respond to pleasure or displeasure.  Some people have difficulty controlling angry.  I've noticed that I sometimes find I will smile about something but don't have the "energy" to actually laugh at it.

 

I searched using "fake" and came up with these topics:

 

why-is-it-so-hard-for-me-to-fake-being-nice

 

does-anyone-suffer-from-a-sort-of-intensified-impostor-syndrome

 

[nicolantana]

Bro...stupid??? Please, this is the number one thing!! Anyone that tells me 'you seem fine' answer  'I can't smile'.....going out socialising, the main thing I know is 'I cxa't smile'

 

I can smile in my windows! 

 

 

[raven530]

cheers nic , good to know I'm not alone in this, I've also been able to smile and be normal in some windows.. but it's been a while. I'm starting to get more frustrated with the change in sociability level, which means I care more than I did before, which is good, but it's very annoying as well. I've noticed people looking at me with a little apprehension, they don't warm to me like they used to. Also annoying cause it makes me feel like an insecure 16 year old again but it is frustrating..

Edited September 1, 2017 by ChessieCat

[nicolantana]

yeah not easy, I'm a zombie again...any update?

 

[raven530]

Been getting to the gym three times a week.. Think it's doing me a bit of good. Thoughts were fizzling about in my head a lot yesterday before I went to bed, felt good, like a reminder of how it used to be 

[nicolantana]

sounds promising man. you think there are clear improvements??? how are you feeling about things??

[jkun41]

Hi Raven, I just wanted to let you know that much like you I was only on Sertraline for a short while (2 months) and though I didn't go cold turkey, I did a rapid taper. Thought it might be nice for you to hear from someone else who was only on it a short while. I was also on it for social anxiety. 

 

As this website points out, c/t and rapid tapering isn't good for most of us, and in some of us makes the withdrawal both worse and protracted. 

 

After reading about others on/off Sertraline I'm convinced (in large part due to my own struggles) that one of the biggest struggles of Sertraline withdrawal is intrusive thoughts and OCD - not necessarily physical OCD, but mental (aka "Pure-O.")  For someone like myself who has had mild OCD, it's easy to make the connection. However, for others like yourself it may not be so obvious. 

 

Why am I saying this? Because with intrusive thinking we often believe our thoughts, or battle them. We entertain them in various forms, and in doing so legitimize them. It's exhausting mentally, and physically. 

 

Your emotion will come back, and personally I don't think it has ever left. It's hiding. I think you're tired mentally. I think your CNS is tired. You've resigned yourself to the thought that your emotions are gone because unfortunately you have felt that way since the beginning, according to your first post. Without even meaning to we all wake up every day and mentally check for these feelings. The more you check for your emotions, the harder they are to find. I've been struggling with these kind of thoughts and feelings myself, as I hit a bad wave last week. 

 

The problem with these mental worries is they drive us to constantly check, and the more we check the more real it feels. But they're not real. You will heal. You will feel. You will recover. 

 

You may not agree with me, and others may not agree with me, but in your very first post you mention that you wouldn't kill yourself because of how it would make your mother feel. This is empathy. It's a feeling. It may be a sliver of one, but it's there. That spark will once again become a fire of passion and happiness. So many of us on here talk about how poorly we are feeling, yet so many of us are still able to show empathy for those we love. 

 

Also, to you and Nicolantana, these thoughts always attack what we care about. It's clear our cognition is important to all of us. This is what I'm working through right now. You're not a Zombie, because if you were you wouldn't care, you wouldn't be bothered by it. You wouldn't be asking why or when it will stop. Again, we have all still got the spark. 

[raven530]

being doing horribly this past 2 months. Shame cause I was seeing progress before.

[ChessieCat]

From: what-is-happening-in-your-brain

 

:Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made."

[raven530]

Thank you for that ChessieCat, I needed to read it. Still it's hard to keep faith all the time when you see stories of people 10 years into PSSD battles. 

[raven530]

Feels like this bloody wave is never going to end. Just had drunk students singing and listening to my old favourite song outside my window at 2am and I feel so bitter and depressed that I can't experience what they experience or what I used to experience. To lose your appreciation of life must be one of the worst afflictions you can suffer with. And no end in sight.

[raven530]

Have been feeling really defeated these last few months, I thought I'd seen real progress over the first 8 months of this year but it's all unravelled now. Don't want to be negative but I really feel I'm back at square one here.