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DaveB: Trying to stop a roller coaster year

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Gridley

Yes, you can get back to that point.  It may take a few months.  By the way, this definition of stabilized from Brassmonkey is good to keep in mind:  

 

"Stability is not the absence of WD symptoms, but rather a steady state of feeling crappy without any major swings either direction."

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DaveB
24 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Yes, you can get back to that point.  It may take a few months.  By the way, this definition of stabilized from Brassmonkey is good to keep in mind:  

 

"Stability is not the absence of WD symptoms, but rather a steady state of feeling crappy without any major swings either direction."

 

Thanks Gridley, I will keep that in mind, unfortunately I am swinging very much from one direction to another. So if "stability" is months away and is still is feeling crappy, when does feeling good come?

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Gridley
Posted (edited)

"Crappy" doesn't mean terrible, just not as good as you felt before all this started and will feel later on.  Once you stabilize there will be windows when you feel good--no or almost no symptoms-- and waves when you feel not so good.  Yes, it's a lengthy process, one that none of us want to be in.  But we are.

 

You may well stabilize in a shorter time than months.  I just wanted to prepare you for that possibility.

Edited by Gridley

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brassmonkey

Hi Dave-- I so glad to hear that you've taken control. Now a nice long hold (several months at least) and let things stabilize, then we can slide you off of that nasty stuff.

 

Recounting six years of taper would take a long time but most of it's there in my intro thread

 

There was a lot more, 87 pages worth that recounted the early years at PriorPlace, but that has been lost to the cyber gods.  The short version is I worked up to 40mgai over 19 years.  Was in severe poopout for several years before finding PP and learning about tapering.  I started a 10% every 6 week slide.  Took about two and a half years to notice any real improvements then got progressively better until I jumped to "0" after tapering for  five and a half years. I will be drug free nine months next week and an going fine.  The picture on the link above I took in Kenya last year.  We're thinking about going back again in a couple of months. There are a lot more details in my thread.

 

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DaveB
1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Dave-- I so glad to hear that you've taken control. Now a nice long hold (several months at least) and let things stabilize, then we can slide you off of that nasty stuff.

 

Recounting six years of taper would take a long time but most of it's there in my intro thread

 

There was a lot more, 87 pages worth that recounted the early years at PriorPlace, but that has been lost to the cyber gods.  The short version is I worked up to 40mgai over 19 years.  Was in severe poopout for several years before finding PP and learning about tapering.  I started a 10% every 6 week slide.  Took about two and a half years to notice any real improvements then got progressively better until I jumped to "0" after tapering for  five and a half years. I will be drug free nine months next week and an going fine.  The picture on the link above I took in Kenya last year.  We're thinking about going back again in a couple of months. There are a lot more details in my thread.

 

 

So were you having acute withdrawal symptoms when you were in poopout, or did you taper too quickly at 1st, before you started to "slide"?

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DaveB
On 12/12/2017 at 11:51 AM, Madeleine said:

It can make it feel worse, depending on how you approach it and what your thoughts are about it.   Maybe try to accept that there are rainy and sunny days, and when you have a rainy day, don't let it get you down, just do what you can when it rains -- e.g. stay inside, read a book quietly, etc. and have faith that the rain will end and the sun will shine again...

 

It looks like you went through something similar about a year ago and have since stabilized and resumed a successful taper. How long did it take for you to get stable again, when did you know you were ready to start a Zyprexa taper?

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brassmonkey

The acute phase started about two years before I started to taper when the 40mgai was pooping out on me.  It continued well into the third year of my taper.  The taper speed was fine the problem was the lack of stability caused by the poopout.  By it's very nature there is no way that a hold will stabilize the symptoms of poopout, the only way out is down.  As I was able to reduce my drug load my body was able to sort things out and get the upper hand and eventually stabilize. 

 

Although acute WD and poopout are related they are not the same thing.  Acute WD is a severe case of WD symptoms while poopout is the body tolerating the affects of the drug, trying to work around them and causing WD symptoms by doing so.  Then harder the body rejects the medication the more severe the symptoms.  This was the third time I had gone into poopout, it being the reason I updosed from 20mgai to 30mgai and again to 40mgai.  The 40mgai never really stabilized and caused the most trouble.

 

I started the slide method from my very first reduction and used it the entire time I was tapering.  I had to modify things a bit when I go to the micro-doses at the end of my taper, but that had little bearing on things.

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Madeleine
15 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

It looks like you went through something similar about a year ago and have since stabilized and resumed a successful taper. How long did it take for you to get stable again, when did you know you were ready to start a Zyprexa taper?


I was on Zyprexa for not a long time (see my signature line). I was prescribed it in the hospital. I started tapering soon after I got out of the hospital.  I tapered it slowly in small increments but steadily.  

One thing that helped me a lot was therapy (cognitive behavioural therapy).  It helped me to understand how I often brought on my own anxiety with my negative thoughts.  It's not going to totally alleviate withdrawal issues, but it helps me from getting anxious in the way I did before.  I went to a therapist, and it was quite expensive.  However, for a start, you could take a look at the book Feeling Good by David Burns.  It's an introduction to cognitive behavioural therapy.

My faith has also helped a great deal -- it helps a lot to "live and let God..."  and to pray.   

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DaveB
1 hour ago, Madeleine said:


I was on Zyprexa for not a long time (see my signature line). I was prescribed it in the hospital. I started tapering soon after I got out of the hospital.  I tapered it slowly in small increments but steadily.  

One thing that helped me a lot was therapy (cognitive behavioural therapy).  It helped me to understand how I often brought on my own anxiety with my negative thoughts.  It's not going to totally alleviate withdrawal issues, but it helps me from getting anxious in the way I did before.  I went to a therapist, and it was quite expensive.  However, for a start, you could take a look at the book Feeling Good by David Burns.  It's an introduction to cognitive behavioural therapy.

My faith has also helped a great deal -- it helps a lot to "live and let God..."  and to pray.   

 

Good advice on all counts. When you tapered Zyprexa did you cut that little tiny pill into halves (4ths?) or get some kind of liquid. I think when I resume a taper (not for some months, I promise Brassmonkey!) I would like to do Zyprexa 1st and want to know how you did it. 

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Madeleine
2 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Good advice on all counts. When you tapered Zyprexa did you cut that little tiny pill into halves (4ths?) or get some kind of liquid. I think when I resume a taper (not for some months, I promise Brassmonkey!) I would like to do Zyprexa 1st and want to know how you did it. 


I cut the 2.5 pills by quarters when I was on higher doses. Then when I got to about 1.25 mg and lower I tried taking even smaller little pieces.    Check the thread on this forum on "tapering zyprexa" and also do a search on "zyprexa" in this forum and you will how others tapered. 

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DaveB

Seriously, I have gone in swings from feeling pretty good for a bit today, to honestly not sure how I can make it through the day. Are these swings to be expected with where I am at or is it a sign I am doing something wrong? 

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Gridley

These swings are to be expected.  Your CNS has gone through a lot of dose changes and is destabilized.  If you are holding at 40mg, you are doing right.  

 

Madeleine gave you some good advice.

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DaveB
On 1/9/2018 at 7:05 PM, brassmonkey said:

By it's very nature there is no way that a hold will stabilize the symptoms of poopout, the only way out is down. 

 

Although acute WD and poopout are related they are not the same thing.  Acute WD is a severe case of WD symptoms while poopout is the body tolerating the affects of the drug, trying to work around them and causing WD symptoms by doing so.  Then harder the body rejects the medication the more severe the symptoms.  This was the third time I had gone into poopout, it being the reason I updosed from 20mgai to 30mgai and again to 40mgai.  The 40mgai never really stabilized and caused the most trouble.

 

This may be a dumb question, but is it possible I am experiencing a form of poopout and my body is rejecting the medication and therefore a hold won’t stabilize me? I guess today has just turned out to be a doubting day as I have been so up and down.

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brassmonkey

You're not showing and signs of poopout from everything we've talked about, just being really unstable from all the dose changes.  There will be good and bad days on the way to stabilizing, but you'll get there.

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DaveB

Anyone have any info or experience on BCAAs in withdrawal. I am trying to get healthy and I have a protein shake that I combine with a banana and spinach, that contains BCAAs. They are supposed to be great for when you exercise giving you energy and I am hoping to use these to help me get off caffeine. Any info is appreciated. 

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DaveB

Could taking Klonopin for a few days instead of Paxil, and my quick trial of 20mgs really be causing me all this trouble? I am almost a week into my reinstatement of 40mgs and really not doing well. Having near constant anxiety, making it hard to enjoy anything or concentrate on stuff at work. So frustrating as I felt I was SO close in December. Windows and waves for sure, but there was undeniable progress. Now I feel squarely back at the beginning of trying to recover and stabilize. Could this really be from my mixup and 20mg trial or am I doing something wrong?

 

Also a question about caffeine, I have noticed that when I drink a coffee instead soda or monster energy drink, I will feel better for about an hour or two, before the anxiety comes roaring back. I know caffeine is suggested to be cut on this site in acute withdrawal, so wouldn’t you expect the opposite to be true. Caffeine to cause an anxiety spike for a few hours until it settles back down? Anyone else experienced anything like this?

 

Thank you all for being my lifeline in tough times!

 

PS. I stopped the BCAA’s I don’t think it is worth testing my body with any other supplement right now.

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DaveB

Also, I was doing some math today and realized at no point during this year have I stayed on the same meds at the same dose for longer than about 7-8 weeks...maybe that has been my problem?

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RachelSusan

HI Dave,

You've had 2 changes in a short period of time. It's not just the change in the Paxil but the change in the Klonopin as well, even if it was just for a short period of time. I've also reread your drug signature, and looked at the changes you made in 2017 alone.  I'm impressed that you still standing.  You must be superman. But in spite of being Superman please be kind to yourself.  Nice and easy does it.  Go slow and give yourself time to stabilize. 7 to 8 weeks for the same dose is not very long. You will be OK in the long run.  It's just the now that sticks. You've got so many great people advising you here you can't go wrong.

Best wishes for stabilizing quickly.

Rachel

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DaveB

Thanks Rachel! Sometimes I feel like I am trying to be Superman, but not even pulling off Clark Kent. Had a pretty good night last night (again after Dr Pepper with dinner, I am telling you my anxiety/withdrawal response to caffeine is weird!) and today hasn’t been too bad. I have had a semi-window I would say, hoping it is a sign of things to come!

 

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DaveB

Well that “window” closed quickly! Anxiety has been so bad today, I have been seriously considering checking into a hospital. One year into this nightmare and can’t believe how bad it is today!

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Rosetta
On January 12, 2018 at 2:58 PM, DaveB said:

Also a question about caffeine, I have noticed that when I drink a coffee instead soda or monster energy drink, I will feel better for about an hour or two, before the anxiety comes roaring back. I know caffeine is suggested to be cut on this site in acute withdrawal, so wouldn’t you expect the opposite to be true. Caffeine to cause an anxiety spike for a few hours until it settles back down? Anyone else experienced anything like this?

 

PS. I stopped the BCAA’s I don’t think it is worth testing my body with any other supplement right now.

 

Good question about caffeine.  I can hazard a guess.  I suppose if you are addicted to coffee, the energy drink or soda may not be giving you the "dose" your body is craving.  Getting your proper amount of caffeine calms you --- temporarily.  Then, the caffeine activates your alerting system -- fight or flight system -- and that system doesn't calm down quickly the way it would if you were not in WD.  There's an explanation on this site about why WD causes anxiety, and sometimes, intense anxiety.  It's about gaba, gaba receptors and the way that a destabilized CNS can result in all the neurotransmitters being out of balance.  I think it was written by Rhiannon if I'm not mistaken.  It's a good read, and it brought all of the theory of ADWD into focus for me.  

 

 

 

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Gridley

This may be the post from Rhiannon that you're talking about, Rosetta.  It's a good one.

 

Brain Remodelling

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DaveB
4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

 

Good question about caffeine.  I can hazard a guess.  I suppose if you are addicted to coffee, the energy drink or soda may not be giving you the "dose" your body is craving.  Getting your proper amount of caffeine calms you --- temporarily.  Then, the caffeine activates your alerting system -- fight or flight system -- and that system doesn't calm down quickly the way it would if you were not in WD.  There's an explanation on this site about why WD causes anxiety, and sometimes, intense anxiety.  It's about gaba, gaba receptors and the way that a destabilized CNS can result in all the neurotransmitters being out of balance.  I think it was written by Rhiannon if I'm not mistaken.  It's a good read, and it brought all of the theory of ADWD into focus for me.  

 

 

 

 

I think your Theroy makes some sense, thanks for weighing in.

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DaveB
3 hours ago, Gridley said:

This may be the post from Rhiannon that you're talking about, Rosetta.  It's a good one.

 

Brain Remodelling

 

This is good info, thanks! Today has been SO bad, I don’t know what happened? Should I just chalk it up to a bad day, or that something really wrong is going on?

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Gridley

Chalk it up to a bad day.  There will be some of those as your system stabilizes.  

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DaveB
3 hours ago, Gridley said:

Chalk it up to a bad day.  There will be some of those as your system stabilizes.  

 

Ok, it was just REALLY bad, worst day I have had in months. Not sure why that would be the case. I really thought about checking into a hospital as the anxiety was simply overwhelming!

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Rosetta

That's a good one, but maybe I'll find the other one.  

 

Maybe it was Gia K.  She was quoting an unnamed person from Paxil Progress, I believe.  I can't repeat it, but I'll try to give you a version of what I remember.  She talked about benzo addiction and the neurotransmitter called gaba, and it's job in your system.  She said the same sort of mechanism could be going on for ADWD.  She explained how destabilization caused by the sudden withdrawal of the drug for GABA activates the alerting system (fight or flight/adrenaline system).  GABA's job is to help that system calm down.  The WD of a drug acting directly on serotonin instead of GABA also results in an imbalance of the entire CNS due to the serotonin being out of balance.  That imbalance causes the gaba and dopamine to go out of balance even though the drug wasn't specifically made to act on GABA. The WD symptoms for benzo and AD WD overlap especially when it come to high anxiety (due to GABA being out of balance).  This lack of homestasis probably causes many other symptoms other than anxiety -- sleep issues, nausea, etc.   Then the killer is when the imbalance become self perpetuating (this has something to do with the adrenaline and cortisol being released and there being insufficient GABA or GABA receptors to calm everything down.)  The system is out of balance for periods of time (waves) and occasionally finds a balance but then loses that balance again when a new receptor for any one of the neurotransmitters is reactivated.  (That's probably not exactly the explanation, but it's the best I could do.)

 

The need for calming exercises is stressed a lot on this site.  I used to think I could not use these techniques because I was too anxious to focus, but, at some point, I became able to use them.  Then I found that I could short circuit the alerting system (fight or flight/adrenaline system).  I guess the idea is to try even if you can't make the relaxation techniques works because 

 

You are going to think something really wrong is going on every time you go under a wave until you finally just don't think that.  At some point you will be able to wrap your brain around the concept of neuro plasticity, kindling, how ADs and benzos work, etc.  You will start to think "Oh, it's another wave. Again??!"  It takes some getting used to.  It's so hard to believe the doctors can't fix this problem they created, isn't it?  

 

You had Paxil, I see.  I remember getting Paxil in 1998 I think it was.  It's not in my drug signature because I didn't stay on it, and I didn't take another AD until 2001, but maybe there's a reason to put it there.  I took it less than 10 days because I found myself slamming my head against a wooden fence over and over and over again.  I was trying to slam it harder and harder each time.  I was a 28 year old girl in an upscale neighborhood, and people could see me do this.  I didn't care.  I guess that was my first taste of Akathisia.  You see, in a world with a caring, ethical, humane medical system, I would have never been given another AD again, right?  Well, you know the answer.

 

I'm sorry you are in this mess.  I am somewhat ok now because I took the advice to stay off these drugs, but I didn't have a chance to taper.  It was too late when I found SA.

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Rosetta

Well, Dave & Gridley, I found the info I thought Rhiannon had posted, but I was quite confused on who posted it.   Not surprising these days, lol.  

 

Actually, what I tried to repeat on your thread, Dave, was written by none other than Altostrata herself and posted here: https://beyondmeds.com/2010/07/14/gabaglutamate/ (and there is an answer to it that clarifies some possible/ potential confusion about the fight or flight system.). Its a really great explanation of what might be happening to us nonetheless, of course, but it's still not the explanation I was thinking about when I mentioned it.  The one I was thinking of was written by a person who did not want to be identified.  

 

Sigh . . . I want my memory back.  Oh, well.  The Beyond Meds Altostrata article is very informative on the subject.  Maybe it's just a theory, but it made sense to me.  Having a possible explanation was nice.  I wonder if she still considers that theory a good possibility.  As for the other theory, I'm relatively sure GiaK posted it somewhere.

 

I hope tomorrow is much better, Dave.  Do you have black out curtains or a sleeping mask and a very gentle, quiet alarm to wake you?

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DaveB
14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Well, Dave & Gridley, I found the info I thought Rhiannon had posted, but I was quite confused on who posted it.   Not surprising these days, lol.  

 

Actually, what I tried to repeat on your thread, Dave, was written by none other than Altostrata herself and posted here: https://beyondmeds.com/2010/07/14/gabaglutamate/ (and there is an answer to it that clarifies some possible/ potential confusion about the fight or flight system.). Its a really great explanation of what might be happening to us nonetheless, of course, but it's still not the explanation I was thinking about when I mentioned it.  The one I was thinking of was written by a person who did not want to be identified.  

 

Sigh . . . I want my memory back.  Oh, well.  The Beyond Meds Altostrata article is very informative on the subject.  Maybe it's just a theory, but it made sense to me.  Having a possible explanation was nice.  I wonder if she still considers that theory a good possibility.  As for the other theory, I'm relatively sure GiaK posted it somewhere.

 

I hope tomorrow is much better, Dave.  Do you have black out curtains or a sleeping mask and a very gentle, quiet alarm to wake you?

 

This is very good info, but doesn't give me much hope. It says: "Once disinhibition of the glutamatergic system takes hold, it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole question of neurotransmitter imbalance — a chimera of psychiatry anyway — becomes moot. No manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is going to help. In fact, it usually makes the condition worse."

 

So in other words, what I have attempted to do with a Paxil "reinstatement" to help with my Zoloft CT last year isn't going to help and "in fact, it usually makes the condition worse." So where does this leave me? Resigned to a recovery that will probably take years if it is successful at all? That isn't very encouraging. 

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DaveB
14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I hope tomorrow is much better, Dave.  Do you have black out curtains or a sleeping mask and a very gentle, quiet alarm to wake you?

 

I actually started feeling a little better last night so that was helpful, and today has been much better than yesterday, though still a struggle for sure! Is it normal in withdrawal to feel more calm at night, seems my days are really grind it out right now, but nights are much more calm and closer to normal. This has been a pattern for me for pretty much the whole year, though depending on how strong the waves is, the level of nighttime relief is varied. 

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Gridley

It is pretty common to feel worse in the morning and better as the day progresses.  That is my pattern.  One explanation of this is that cortisol spikes in the morning and then lessens.

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DaveB
3 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

This is very good info, but doesn't give me much hope. It says: "Once disinhibition of the glutamatergic system takes hold, it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole question of neurotransmitter imbalance — a chimera of psychiatry anyway — becomes moot. No manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is going to help. In fact, it usually makes the condition worse."

 

So in other words, what I have attempted to do with a Paxil "reinstatement" to help with my Zoloft CT last year isn't going to help and "in fact, it usually makes the condition worse." So where does this leave me? Resigned to a recovery that will probably take years if it is successful at all? That isn't very encouraging. 

 

Anyone with any answers or insights into this? 

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Rosetta
4 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

This is very good info, but doesn't give me much hope. It says: "Once disinhibition of the glutamatergic system takes hold, it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole question of neurotransmitter imbalance — a chimera of psychiatry anyway — becomes moot. No manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is going to help. In fact, it usually makes the condition worse."

 

So in other words, what I have attempted to do with a Paxil "reinstatement" to help with my Zoloft CT last year isn't going to help and "in fact, it usually makes the condition worse." So where does this leave me? Resigned to a recovery that will probably take years if it is successful at all? That isn't very encouraging. 

 

Dave, That's what I thought at first, too, when I read that part about "disinhibition being self-perpetuating."  I thought: I'm doomed.  I wasn't.  You are not. 

 

Your mind is looking for the negative, of course.  Mine used to do that but now finds the positive more quickly.  That's another problem with everything being out of whack: Negativity to the extreme.  

 

Imo, the caveat to the statement about "disinhibition being self perpetuating" should be -- until the brain has a chance to repair enough of the structures to let the CNS start to function properly again.  Dysregulation of the CNS is not the same as disinhibition of the glutamate system.  Once the repairs are made such that dysregulation of the CNS is not constant, it is only a matter of time before the disinhibition can be corrected more quickly each time it occurs.

 

I'm no expert; I'm not a moderator; I know very little, but I can tell you what I understand of the theories.  I believe I understand the theories.  A moderator will correct me if I get it wrong, I hope.  I would never give you advice on what to do with Paxil or any drug, but when it comes to trying to understand what has happened to you, I'm happy to tell you my understanding of what these drugs do to the brain and what WD does to the brain.  I have experienced both.  I have not tried to reinstate.

 

Why did the Mods suggest reinstating Paxil instead of Zoloft?  I'm not comfortable answering that.  I think I know why, but please ask a Mod.  I could be wrong.

 

This is fantastic news: by afternoon or evening you feel better!!  This means that your CNS has taken back control.  That's wonderful news!  Mine did not do that quickly.  I was a wreck all day until I passed out from exhaustion at night.  Take that explanation I copied for you and combine it with the knowledge that cortisol spikes in the morning set off a period of anxiety. (Gridley mentioned this.). Then you can see that the explanation tells us why we feel terrible, but it also explains why we feel better in the evening or --after the brain has healed more -- better in the afternoon.  Your system is coping quite well if you are feeling calm in the latter part of the day.  The "self perpetuating disinhibition of the glutamate system" is not lasting all day.  It is being interrupted by your still properly functioning CNS when the sun goes down.  That is a great sign!!

 

My CNS system didn't take back control at first.  I was in horrible agony all day long.  The only relief I had was exhaustion and unconsciousness from that exhaustion.  If there was any difference between morning, afternoon and night, I couldn't feel it.  I suspect that my CNS was in dysregulation and my glutamate was out of control even while I slept.  I did not get restorative sleep.  I woke up feeling that I had not slept a wink.  I must have had some restorative sleep, but my symptoms indicated that it was not enough.

 

Eventually, there was some repair in my brain that gave my CNS the chance to regain control by the evening.  Then, I started to have the bad mornings and days, but better nights, and eventually I had better afternoons, too.  Now, I don't have cortisol spikes in the morning.  So, my CNS remains in control most of the time. It's a tenuous control; it's bumpy and there are lurches here and there.  There is still low level anxiety either in action all morning or threatening to come rushing out from the background.  If something scares me during the day, the whole CNS overreacts.  It's awful, but it resolves within a few hours.  My CNS regains control more quickly all the time.  Something in my brain has changed and the glutamate disinhibition is operating a shorter time than before.  

 

Also, that quote is not specific to people who have the chance to reinstate, either.  It's probably referring to people who do not reinstate the right drug, can't reinstate or have some other problem such that reinstatement did not work.  Guess what?  Even those people heal!  Like me.  So, of course, you will.

 

They say that WD is "bearable" with a successful reinstatement.  From my experience, I suspect that the reason they say this is because the CNS dysregulation and the glutamate disinhibition is not constant after the reinstatement works. Maybe the reinstatement helps the CNS regain control enough to give the person restorative sleep?  I wonder if that's what a Mod would say.

 

(Deleted information about your reinstatement that I mistakenly believed was pertinent to you, Dave, but wasn't.  I mixed you up with Justin.  Hmmm, I wonder why?  Sorry. I want my brain back!! DELETE this too: Maybe they can tell you what they believe about Paxil being the right one, and why they believe that.  As I said, I think I know, but I'm pretty new to all of this.)

 

There are no guarantees.  I know how badly you need a guarantee you have done the right thing with the right drug.  I can tell you that my WD, for a period of time, was not "bearable."  The return of restorative sleep was probably a turning point.  That gave me greater opportunity for more repairs to be made to my brain.  I waited until the disinhibition of the glutamate system stopped long enough for me to feel that had happened.  I started to believe in the theories on this site.  I started to believe that I would heal.  So I kept living and healing.  I'm very fragile.  My glutamate system does go off the rails sometimes, but I have faith that it will be quelled by my CNS operating properly at some point.  The wait for calmness to return is not as long as before.

 

It is so fantastic that your evenings are good and that you are not complaining about insomnia, but trust me, if you are sleeping, if you can relax in the evenings to any degree I believe you are going to be okay.  I know it's going to be bumpy; it's going to be frustrating; healing is not linear, but you are all ready healing.  You will be disappointed when you feel worse during a wave, but so many people are going through/ have gone through the same thing and they are healing.  Some of them are completely well.

 

Understand and believe this: when people say they are still healing years later they do not mean that they felt the same level of misery you feel now for all that time.  I think that gets lost in the shuffle when people say they are still healing at 12 months or 18 months or 2 years.  I wish I could have understood that early on.  It would have saved me a lot of worry.  If you worry, your stress hormone, cortisol, goes up starts up the whole miserable glutamate reaction.  But know this: You are not going to feel what you understand right now to be WD for years, I don't believe -- not unrelentingly.  You will get breaks from symptoms, and you will have the intensity of symptoms decrease to the level of mere annoyance.  Each time they come back, they will be different and of a different intensity.  The trajectory will be toward greater comfort and less discomfort overall.

 

Peace,

 

Rosetta

 

 

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DaveB
5 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

 

 

Why did the Mods suggest reinstating Paxil instead of Zoloft?  I'm not comfortable answering that.  I think I know why, but please ask a Mod.  I could be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow Rosetta, great post! You should be a moderator, bless you for your experience and your kind words. To clarify, they DID NOT advise me to reinstate Paxil, I found this site WAY too late into my journey after I had already tried to reinstate Zoloft (at too high a dose and not consistant) and Lexapro (probably the same issues as the Zoloft), and was already well into my Paxil journey. They are doing their best to sort through and clean up the crazy mess I had already made. Had I just reinstated 25mgs or less of Zoloft after being off for 3 months and held until I felt better, no question I would be in a much better place by now, but I unfortunately didn't know any different. 

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DaveB
24 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Gridley feels that your reinstatement is off to a good start. Altostrata suspects the dose is too high.  However, at this point, they seem to feel there is evidence you reinstated the right drug.  Maybe they can tell you what they believe about Paxil being the right one, and why they believe that.  As I said, I think I know, but I'm pretty new to all of this.

 

 

Have they talked to you about me? I don't remember Gridley telling me my reinstatement is off to a good start, and Altostrata has never posted on this thread. 

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Rosetta
14 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

Wow Rosetta, great post! You should be a moderator, 

 

 

Ha ha!  Not quite!! Gee thanks, but I'm pretty clueless, I think.  The marbles are rolling around up there, and too many have fallen out of my ears.  However, I have been thinking all the same things you have been thinking (I'm doomed; I'm doomed). and I had answers to those "negative thoughts" courtesy of my new brain!  (My new brain which seems to think you and Justin are too much alike, but at least it's a new brain that is responding to CBT!  Yeah! )

 

Good God what a mess those "trusted medical doctors" have created!!  It must be really embarrassing to the ones who have opened their eyes.

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