Judysgrl: Introduction

[Judysgrl]

Please i need help. I am on cymbalta generic and have tapered down to approx 10 mgs from 90 using bead method. I also take a very low dose of ativan. I had tapered off the ativan in july 2016 and went back on much lower dose 4 months ago. I also take zyprexa at approx. 3.75 mgs. I have been trying to taper all three meds because i have fatty liver disease and need yo get off this junk before it turns into cirrhosis. So i made a cut last week and about 4 days ago i started to get severe anxiety. I was doing fine up until then but it seems like every time i get to a certain point with the zyorexa i get so anxious. I have tried several times to taper zyprexa.  I am under alot of stress and i dont know if its me or withdrawal. I was put on these medications 9 years ago for anxiety. It was very bad. But i dont know if that anxiety was from klonopin or celexa. I did not have this kind of anxiety before those two meds. Someone please help me. I had to increase the zyprexa yesterday or i was going to end up in the hospital. I have to find a job because i will soon be homeless if i dont. How will i get off these horrible drugs and function at the same time??

[mammaP]

Hi Judysgrl, welcome to SA. The most important thing right now is to hold everything. Your brain needs to catch up with the dose reductions and that will take some time. It will not be forever, and when you are stable you can decide what to taper next. We don't usually recommend tapering more than one drug because it can be hard to know which one is causing withdrawal symptoms. For now just hold, same doses, same time every day to stabilise.  You are trying to taper cymbalta, zyprexa and ativan at the same time?  Can you give us some more information? I will ask questions and you can click the quote button. This will open my post in the reply box and you can type your replies under the questions. 

 

When did you start tapering cymbalta?  

 

 

How much have you reduced each time, 10%, 20% etc 

 

How much have you reduced zyprexa?

 

How much have you reduced ativan?

 

How are you taking ativan? once, twice daily or other? 

 

It will be easier to help when we have the answers.  We will help you to get through this and off the drugs safely. 

[Madeleine]

As Mamma said, it's best to taper 1 drug at a time.  I know you are in a rush, but in the end you will be more successful if you follow the route recommended here of tapering 1 drug at a time, and not tapering more than 10% per month.   Make your goal stability, i.e. taper only as fast as you can so that you remain stable.  Members who taper slowly are more likely to stay stable, look for a job and keep a job.  When you taper slowly,with each reduction, even though it's small, you will be decreasing the amount in your system, and helping your liver, bit by bit. If you taper too fast, your whole metabolism will be affected  

[Mort81]

This if def not you,  this is wd and it can feel 100x stronger than your old anxiety, not to mention much different with many different symptoms coming  . Your gonna need to taper 1 drug at a time because of how big the wd symptoms can be . You tapered 90mg of cymbalta to 10mg ? That's a big change,  if it's faster than 10% per month than you have gone much too fast for this websites recommendations.

 

But most people end up here because we are uneducated about the tapering process due to our doctors incompetence.  

 

Hopefully a mod can come by and try to help you straighten out your situation . We have thousands of members going through what you are feeling now , so your not alone and in good company. 

[Judysgrl]

15 hours ago, mammaP said:

Hi Judysgrl, welcome to SA. The most important thing right now is to hold everything. Your brain needs to catch up with the dose reductions and that will take some time. It will not be forever, and when you are stable you can decide what to taper next. We don't usually recommend tapering more than one drug because it can be hard to know which one is causing withdrawal symptoms. For now just hold, same doses, same time every day to stabilise.  You are trying to taper cymbalta, zyprexa and ativan at the same time?  Can you give us some more information? I will ask questions and you can click the quote button. This will open my post in the reply box and you can type your replies under the questions. 

 

When did you start tapering cymbalta?  

 

 

How much have you reduced each time, 10%, 20% etc 

 

How much have you reduced zyprexa?

 

How much have you reduced ativan?

 

How are you taking ativan? once, twice daily or other? 

 

It will be easier to help when we have the answers.  We will help you to get through this and off the drugs safely. 

Hi and thank you for responding. I started tapering cymbalta 22 months ago, i am dropping at 5%. I reduce the zyprexa at 10% but i can never get below 3.75 mgs. I just had to ipdose because i could not even het out of my ned. The anxiety was just paralyzing. I yake ativan 2x daily. I am using the scale to decrease at 10%. I takeess than 2.5 in the am and less than .5 pm. I feel that i need to drop the cymbalta first as yhat is the drug that causes fatty liver. But after that should i do the zyprexa before the ativan or the other way?

[mammaP]

It is really good that you are tapering slowly but for now you need to hold all the drugs to give your brain a break. We do recommend tapering cymbalta first, then maybe the zyprexa. What dose did you go up to? You might be better to take the same dose of ativan am and pm so that you have a steady level in your blood. While you are taking different doses you could be having interdose withdrawal. If you can make them even,  then hold everything at the same doses every day so that you can stabilise. Then we can work out the next move for you. Even the slowest tapers need a long hold at some time so the brain and nervous system can adjust. It really is great that you have been going so slowly, we don't often get people tapering so slow before they come here.  

 

It will help us if you can put your drug and tapering history in your signature, this link will take you to the signature box for you to fill it in. When you have finished, press save and it will appear at the bottom of all your posts. We need drugs, start dates starting doses and  current doses. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/settings/signature/

[Judysgrl]

On 8/1/2017 at 0:24 PM, mammaP said:

It is really good that you are tapering slowly but for now you need to hold all the drugs to give your brain a break. We do recommend tapering cymbalta first, then maybe the zyprexa. What dose did you go up to? You might be better to take the same dose of ativan am and pm so that you have a steady level in your blood. While you are taking different doses you could be having interdose withdrawal. If you can make them even,  then hold everything at the same doses every day so that you can stabilise. Then we can work out the next move for you. Even the slowest tapers need a long hold at some time so the brain and nervous system can adjust. It really is great that you have been going so slowly, we don't often get people tapering so slow before they come here.  

 

It will help us if you can put your drug and tapering history in your signature, this link will take you to the signature box for you to fill it in. When you have finished, press save and it will appear at the bottom of all your posts. We need drugs, start dates starting doses and  current doses. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/settings/signature/

Hi, i made a mistake in my reply to you. I am taking .5 mgs of ativsn in the am and .5 in the evening. 

So i am still not feeling right since i updosed both the zyprexa and ativan two weeks ago. Someone keeps telling me im in withdrawal. Can you please explain how i could be in withdrawal if i updosed to beginning doses two werks ago??  Its very frustrating to be told this with no explanation!

[Judysgrl]

Can someone tell me how i could be in withdrawal if i updosed to original dose two weeks ago.?? Someone keeps saying im in withdrawal but cant explain how if i am back to my original dose. 

I have tapered and updosed un the past and felt fine right away.  

i would also like proof of whatever your answer is.

[mammaP]

I have been looking at your signature, thank you for filling it in.  You have been reducing cymbalta by 5% a month, which is a good amount but you have taken 5% of the 90mg each time which has meant that the drops have become larger. Eventually your brain starts to feel the reductions and struggles to adjust.  We recommend tapering 10% of the current  dose. Some people taper 5% or less more often but always reduce the amount from the CURRENT dose and not the starting dose. I did that too, cut 10% from the starting dose each time and had horrendous withdrawal  after being off for a month.  This means that you will be having some withdrawal from the cymbalta, but with a long hold should settle. 

When did you start taking zyprexa?

 If someone experiences withdrawal while tapering we would advise going back to the LAST dose and not the original dose.  When in withdrawal the nervous system becomes sensitised and reacts to the slightest changes. Going back to the full dose was probably too much at once.

How have you reduced ativan and what dose were you at to start?

I completely understand why you want to be off these drugs and really feel for you. You have done your very best and it is not your fault it has gone this way. Every time we get a new member who is in the same position as you I feel so frustrated and angry that doctors don't know all this, they are taught by the drug companies who will not admit that their drugs cause these problems. If they did they would be open to mass lawsuits and be bankrupted, all of them!  All we can do now is help you to stabilise  so that you can restart your tapering later.  Rhi, one of our mods, wrote this excellent piece that makes sense of it. 

 

[Judysgrl]

8 hours ago, mammaP said:

I have been looking at your signature, thank you for filling it in.  You have been reducing cymbalta by 5% a month, which is a good amount but you have taken 5% of the 90mg each time which has meant that the drops have become larger. Eventually your brain starts to feel the reductions and struggles to adjust.  We recommend tapering 10% of the current  dose. Some people taper 5% or less more often but always reduce the amount from the CURRENT dose and not the starting dose. I did that too, cut 10% from the starting dose each time and had horrendous withdrawal  after being off for a month.  This means that you will be having some withdrawal from the cymbalta, but with a long hold should settle. 

When did you start taking zyprexa?

 If someone experiences withdrawal while tapering we would advise going back to the LAST dose and not the original dose.  When in withdrawal the nervous system becomes sensitised and reacts to the slightest changes. Going back to the full dose was probably too much at once.

How have you reduced ativan and what dose were you at to start?

I completely understand why you want to be off these drugs and really feel for you. You have done your very best and it is not your fault it has gone this way. Every time we get a new member who is in the same position as you I feel so frustrated and angry that doctors don't know all this, they are taught by the drug companies who will not admit that their drugs cause these problems. If they did they would be open to mass lawsuits and be bankrupted, all of them!  All we can do now is help you to stabilise  so that you can restart your tapering later.  Rhi, one of our mods, wrote this excellent piece that makes sense of it. 

 

Hi, i never said that i cut 5% of my cymbalta friom the 90 mgs. I cut from last dose.  But cymbalta is not the problem. Its the zyprexa that i cant get past a certain point. I have tried to taper zyprexa several times. I have no problems till i get to just above 2.5 mgs and then all hell breaks loose. I spoke with. Physicians assistant friend of mine who i believe either looked up z withdraeals or spoke yp a psych foc about it. She told me thay sometimes once a med has been introduced to the body it may not be able to function without at least a small dose of the med. so basically she was trying to say may never get off this  drug. So if that is the case then i will have to end my life because i suffer from extreme restlessness from the zyprexa, akathisia, and i cannot live the rest of my life with akathisia. So if you have any answers to my problem i would appreciate you sharing them. 

Also i had someone do a spreadsheet for me... cutting 10% every month.. which is what i tried this last attempt.... it will take 22 months to get off. My friend said to hold each drop for 3 months so it will take me twelve years to get off. Well thats not acceptable either as i have fatty liver from this drug and it will turn into cirrhosis if i dont get off. Also i am 56 years old and i do not want to be 67 when i get off. I read that niacin can help withdrawal but i cant take niacin because of my liver. I desperately need help! 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Judysgrl,

 

It would be helpful if you would post your previous taper timetable so that we can get a clear picture of your drug history.

 

For each drug please post each drug separately with the dates your reduced and the dose you reduced/increased that drug.  If you don't know the exact date please state early/mid/late month.  Please also include the time you take the drug.

 

Having this information in a clear format is very important so that the mods can offer suggestions based on your individual situation.

 

Here are some links to topics which may be helpful:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

Taper more than one drug at a time?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Tips for tapering off Cymbalta (duloxetine)
 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

Drug Interactions Checker

[Judysgrl]

I dont know what you mean by my previous taper timetable. All i want to know is if there is anyone that had the same issues with zyprexa as myself and actually got off of it. What i mean by the same isdues is that each time you got to a certain dose you were unable to continue your taper because of the symptoms. I tapered down from 10 mgs tp 3.75 with no problems but when i try to taper from the 3.75 just above 2.5 mgs all hell breaks loose. I was told i may have to stay on this dose for the rest of my life. That is not anoption for me as i have severe inner restlessness from this drug that tortures me day and night and i also have fatty liver disease from it that will turn to cirrhosis if i dont get off of it. The only option for me would be suicide if there is no way off this drug. So can you please help me. Are there natural things i can take to help with the withdrawals. I cant take niacin because of the liver.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Judysgrl said:

previous taper timetable

 

Example:

 

Cymbalta - time of day you take it

     starting dose

     reduced by amount - on the date

     reduced by amount - on the date

     reduced by amount - on the date

     etc

 

Zyprexa - time of day you take it

     starting dose

     reduced by amount - on the date

     reduced by amount - on the date

     reduced by amount - on the date

     etc

 

Ativan - time of day you take it

     starting dose

     reduced by amount - on the date

     reduced by amount - on the date

     reduced by amount - on the date

     etc

[Judysgrl]

Oh wow, ok well i dont remember dates but i will try to give you as much info that i can. 

I was originally on 90 mgs cymbalta. 2 years ago i dropped from 90 to 60. Then i began to taper at 5% every week. Before i started my taper i tried to ct all three meds( ativan cymbalta and zyprexa) after only 2-3 days i reinstated everything. Then about february of 2016 i decided to hold the cymbalta and taper off ativan. It took me 5 montjs to taper off 3 mgs of ativan. That was july of 2016 that i finished ativan. Then i went back to tapering cymbalta. All during this time i was takung 3.75 mgs of zyprexa. In october of 2016 after learning i had liver disease i tried to also taper the zyprexa. I cut 1.25 mgs of zyprexa leaving me at 2.5 mgs. By thanksgiving ( end of november) i was in so much pain from withdrawal along with other symptoms that i went back up to 3.75 mgs. I waited to stabilize. Then went back to tapering cymbalta once again. In march of this year i reinstated ativan at 1 mg. I had akathisia and thought the ativan would help. It didnt. But i didnt think it was a good idea to taper it sgain at that moment. I stayed at .5 mgs twice daily. Stayed at 3.75 mgs of zyprexa and continued my taper of cymbalta. In may of this year i started to taper the zyprexa at 10% a month. I also started to taper the ativan at 10% every two weeks. I was fine till two weeks ago when i reached that point of almost 2.5 mgs of zyprexa again and thats when i hot so bad with anxiety and crying and rage and muscles in my back squeezing. I just felt so awful. I could barely get out of my bed. So i went back up to 3.75 mgs of zyprexa and .5 mgs of ativan 2x daily. Its been two weeks and i feel so depressed and have so much anger. The anxiety is really bad too. I have a thougtt about something i need to do and i begin to panic. I have never had a break from the inner restlessness eithet and now its worse. I take .5 ativan in the morning with 3.75 mgs of zyprexa and 50 tiny cymbalta beads..  at night i take .5 mgs of ativan.          

I feel like i will never be able to get off zyprexa because everytime i get close to 2.5 mgs my symptoms become intolerable. I have to get off zyprexa asap. What do i do? Maybe its just me and i need to be on zyprexa. How can it be withdrawal?

[Judysgrl]

Is there anyone that can help me here??

[Judysgrl]

Im really in need of help... why hasnt anyone gotten back to me??

[ChessieCat]

I've added drug tags to your topic.  If you click on them (top left of page) it will bring up other members who have the same tag.

 

You could also check out the topics in this area of the forum:  Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

And here is another discussion which you might find interesting:  Are there some who can't taper off no matter how slow they go?

[Judysgrl]

Can you tell me in which order i should taper my meds??? Should i do the benzo first?? Please i need to know by name in what order to taper. Im so confused.

[ChessieCat]

Here is the topic discussing Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

[Judysgrl]

I am really sad that no one would help me here. I have read several other threads where admins and mods actually answered peoples questions instead of giving them general links to read. 

I was told this was a good group to belong to, well i dont think so!!

[Mort81]

Hey Judy I'm not a mod , but tapering the benzo should be the last thing you do . I dont have  much  experience with SNRI so I don't know if you should taper the ssri or the zyprexa first . But def hold on the benzo . 

[Judysgrl]

Hi Mort, thank you for replying, its very kind of you! It seems that the zyprexa buffers the withdrawal from the ativan, it was not difficult to come off the ativan last year at all. But i ended up going back on the ativan to try and tame the restlessness. I was originally on 3 mgs a day but i went back on only 1 mg. 

I wonder though if when i started cutting back the zyprexa if the symptoms i had were actually the benzo withdrawals coming through the lower dose of zyprexa. I just dont know.

But i will follow your advice on saving the ativan for last. I just wish someone could tell me which i should do first. I think the snri is the stimulating one so i guess i should do that first but the zyprexa is the one that is causing the liver problem. Im so afraid of this liver thing. But i have to work so i  have to be functional. Im in a really bad situation. 

Anyway thanks again for helping me. I really appreciate it. 

[AliG]

Hi Judysgirl. We normally recommend tapering the more activating medication first. In this case it would be the Cymbalta followed by Zyprexa and then probably Ativan .The more sedating drugs can help alleviate the activating effects of withdrawal so we advise tapering those last.

 

The links are given so that you can read in detail about your particular situation and then make the appropriate decisions based on your own unique set of needs. We don't tell you what to do, so much, as give you the tools to make informed decisions for yourself however we are always happy to answer any specific questions you may have.

 

As previously suggested it would be a good idea to hold on all medications for now to enable you to stabilize and then resume tapering when your system has settled. That could take several months as you have already had a degree of destabilization and this process takes time. I understand you are in a hurry to get off the Cymbalta quickly because of your liver issues but to rush the process can destabilize your CNS and possibly make matters worse.

 

I hope I have answered your questions but if you have more please don't hesitate to ask. We are happy to help any way that we can.

[Mort81]

No problem Judy , I know your in a tough situation,  most of here seem to be aswell in one way or another. It does make it very hard to know which symptoms is coming from what drugs , it seems the more we add the more complicated it gets . 3mg -1mg of ativan is a big drop but some people don't find big issues until they go really low . I know from my experience with my SSRI I had no wd for months when I went from 30-20mg . However getting inside 10 was hell .  If the Zyprexa is causing the liver issues than you have a decision,  like ALI suggested holding is probably good for your CNS but maybe not your liver .

 

However if your really worried about the liver  than u could taper the drug causing the problem but you need be warry of your wd becoming worse . Because if your already destabilized than cutting more will only increase that. So it's a decision so many of us face here,  your dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.  Alot of people on here are stuck on drugs longer than they want, in fear of destabilizing even more.  I am stuck on a PPI for now and a small benzo dose.  

 

If your liver issues are really bad and you know for a fact it's the zyprexa than maybe I would get off it.  It may cause big WD but I don't know what the option is . Maybe a micro taper could work  ?   

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hi, Judy, how are you doing?

 

FYI New Jersey members, please check in here