ryan1982: my journey

[ryan1982]

also, @Altostrata, is there any benefit at all to trying Deplin?  or is that only a risk?

[Altostrata]

We've already discussed Deplin. I notice you are asking the same questions over and over, almost every day. Please use search on this topic to see the answer to your questions before asking another one.

 

Since you tried marijuana and drank beer while you were changing your drug schedule, it's hard to tell where symptoms come from. Alcohol alone can cause you to feel sick.

 

Overall, my impression is that dividing the dose has had a beneficial effect.

 

If you continue to drink, we can't help you.

 

[ryan1982]

@Altostrata- understood.  I'm sure you can understand that people that are in withdrawals makes mistakes- alcohol and marijuana were mine.  Lesson learned.  I'm definitely not much of a drinker but after researching, I found that some people didn't have bad effects from alcohol so I thought I'd try it.  I can honestly say that I don't think alcohol caused my issues but rather marijuana caused my problems.  It's pretty tough to not have a social life without alcohol when you're relatively young.   

 

As for asking the same question, I was curious if there were benefits or risks associated with Deplin, a little bit of a different flavor than the question I asked before.  That said, I'll be sure to use the search before asking any other questions.

 

Thanks for your time.  

[Altostrata]

Please consult Dr. Google for the sales pitch for Deplin, or use search in the Symptoms forum to see our discussions on the subject.

 

You seem highly inclined to ingest mood-altering substances. In general, this isn't a good idea if your nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal.

[ryan1982]

Hi @Altostrata and @ChessieCat-

I hope y’all are doing well. I’m still trucking along at 4 MG total Lexapro with half my dose at 8 AM and 8 PM. Life from a mental standpoint has been pretty stable and I’m waiting to feel better physically before restarting my taper. I don’t miss any doses and take them at the exact same time each day. 

 

I have a wonderful bladder disease called interstitial cystitis and during a recent visit to the urologist, they gave me a trial pack of Myrbetriq. I searched Dr. Google and I couldn’t find any interactions that concerned me so I went for it.  I felt pretty poorly while taking it- headache, dizzy, anxious- and it didn’t help my cystitis symptoms so I took my last dose last Wednesday. Since then, it’s been a rollercoaster- some anxiety but mostly lethargy, headaches and dizziness. 

 

I can’t find anything on the site about this drug but do y’all find that people taking a new drug even for such a short time struggle to come off? Myrbetriq has a 50 Hour half life and my urologist said I should be fine and everything should be out of my system. My biggest fear is that my Lexapro is suddenly causing these symptoms. 

 

Thank you both so much for your help. 

[Altostrata]

Yes, taking another drug can rock the boat when your nervous system is sensitized.

 

You might look up dietary treatments for interstitial cystitis. Could be a reaction to a particular food.

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @Altostrata

 

Do you ever see that meds stop working for folks during their taper? I feel like Lexapro isn’t as effective like it once was even though nothing else has changed. Could this just be a dreaded wave?

[Altostrata]

What do you mean by "effective"??

[ryan1982]

Ha, poor wording choice. I would say that Lexapro was more “manageable” than what it is now. 

[ryan1982]

Do y’all find folks have issues with flonase? It wasn’t mentioned as something that has anxiety side effects by my doctor but holy moly after 5 days, my anxiety is sky high. I looked through some past posts and on Google and it seems like a rare side effect...of course I’m the one to get it!

[Gridley]

Ryan, Flonase is a steroid, and many members in WD have had adverse reactions to steroids.  Here's a thread:

Steroid risk? Prednisone, prednisolone etc. - Surviving Antidepressants

[ryan1982]

@Gridley- I really appreciate it. I’ve got some pretty serious inflammation in my back. Would you be concerned abou taking Aleve/Naproxen Sodium?

[ChessieCat]

On 2/14/2018 at 8:23 AM, brassmonkey said:

I would stay away from Naproxen, we have had a number of people report problems with it. 

 

BrassMonkey posted the above this topic:  painkillers-in-withdrawal-aspirin-ibuprofen-paracetamol-acetaminophen-naproxen-codeine

 

You might find that ibuprofen is a better option because Ibuprofen is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug

[ChessieCat]

You could try a 1/2 recommended dose of ibuprofen first to see how you react and then take a bit more once you know it is okay.

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by ChessieCat

[ryan1982]

Great idea, @ChessieCat. I really appreciate your guidance. 

[ryan1982]

Hey all-

Quick update- I’ve had quite an interesting few months and just had my 3rd surgery for interstitial cystitis in as many months. Unfortunately I’ve had to take some antibiotics, steroids and pain killers along the way which I couldn’t avoid, which threw my CNS off a little bit. Not feeling 100% but I’m thinking ahead to the future. 

 

Ive been on a 6ish month hold at 4 MG of Lexapro and I’m starting to think about my taper plan. I want to rid myself of this poison but I’m frankly TERRIFIED to start again. 

 

A couple questions:

- If you still have some symptoms, is it ok to start your taper?

 

- I was thinking about starting at a 2.5% reduction per month for the first 2 months and transitioning into the @brassmonkey slide or even the full 10% taper. Is that too conservative or is it better to be safe than sorry?

 

- I’m still cutting and weighing pills. Is it worth looking into the liquid or will that shake things up too much? I’m so scared that 4 MG of the pill format is not equal to the liquid and it will really mess me up. 

 

I really appreciate the guidance and support!

[ChessieCat]

If you've only just recently had surgery I'd be waiting a bit longer before tapering again.  Maybe 3 months.  When you do feel reasonably stable you could try a 2.5% reduction just to test to see if you go okay.

 

Using liquid will mean that you can get a more consist dose which is very important when you are down to the lower doses.

 

Note:  You do the crossover without making a dose reduction.  Only one change at a time.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable 

 

You might be able to do this in about 2 months time.  Then give yourself a few weeks on the new form of drug before you make a reduction.  There is nothing wrong with being cautious.

 

When changing from one form of drug to another it is best to do a crossover.  3/4 old + 1/4 new for about 3 days to 1 week, then 1/2 + 1/2 for about 3 days to 1 week and then 1/4 old + 3/4 new for about 3 days to 1 week.  It is gentler on you system to do it this way.  Some members do have difficulties changing over.  Keep daily notes on paper and if at any time during the transition you had issues you would hold at that combination and see how things go.  If they didn't improve you could then back track to the old form.

[Carmie]

Hi Ryan, 

 

I’m really sorry you’ve got interstitial cystitis. That much for awful. I had bladder pain for a long time because of a roller blading accident that did damage to my coccyx. It must have been referred nerve pain. I no longer have the pain, but I really feel for you. 

 

When going through withdrawals we will always have symptoms. It’s just when we are in windows they aren’t quite so bad. When we’ve been in windows for quite a while we have reached a baseline or so called withdrawal normal. We shouldn’t taper until we are in withdrawal normal and have stabilised. Only you will know if you have stabilised. 

 

When you’ve stabilised, cutting down by 2.5% each month for the first two months sounds good. I can only taper by 4% to 5% myself. Doing the brassmonkey slide is a good idea too. I will be doing that next, I haven’t done it before. I’ll be doing it by 5% per month, which is 1.25% each week for four weeks and then a two week hold. 

 

I’m water titrating myself too. I’ve done it for a long time, but started off with just cutting the tablets with a pill cutter. Once I couldn’t do that anymore I started water titration. It’s a great way to get the low doses. 

 

You may find changing over to liquid will give you withdrawals, but you will eventually stabilise. Some people don’t have too much of a problem, especially if they cross- taper. You can also do a cross- taper. If you’re interested in cross tapering let me know, and I’ll give you the info.   (Please see info on how to do this provided in this post)

 

I went from water titrating my tablet to a compounded formula about four months ago and I was in bad withdrawals for three months. I didn’t know about cross-tapering at the time though. I’m going back to my tablet again though too because brassmonkey said it’s best to stick to the original formula if you can as it’s much more accurate. I’ve kind of gone backwards, but I think it’s best in the long run as when I get down to the teeny weeny doses I want them to be really accurate.

 

As regards being in waves for three months, that would have been not just from the formula change but because my 7.5mg may not have been the same as the compounding pharmacists 7.5mgs. The reason I say this is because once when I couldn’t get my usual 5ml syringe I used another brand and I realised that the measurements weren’t the same even though they were both 5ml syringes. 

 

All the best with your two months of tapering by 2.5mgs. Remember though, listen to your body and not the calendar.

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by ChessieCat
added link to cross taper info

[Carmie]

Hi again, 

 

I just saw ChessieCat gave you the cross over formula. We wrote to you at the same time. Snap! 🤣 Actually it’s  a good idea to wait a while since you’ve had surgery. 

 

Sending more hugs🤗

 

 

[ryan1982]

Thanks so much to you both.  Per your advice, I'll wait a bit to stabilize after surgery and all the meds I've had in my system before trying the liquid route.  I know the steroids that I've had have really caused some issues for me, making me feel really agitated and anxious.  I'll continue trying to level out before making a move.  

 

Thanks to you both and Happy Holidays!

[ChessieCat]

Have you tried Magnesium ?  I've gone off it several times and then restarted it and each times I've noticed that it takes the edge off my anxiety.

[ryan1982]

Strangely enough, I had a paradoxical reaction to magnesium. Dizziness and nausea even when I didn’t take much at all. 

[ryan1982]

Hey all,

I had a steroid shot in my back a week ago and that ramped up some symptoms. I also tried one ibuprofen recently and that caused tinnitus and I’m also thinking it caused some anxiety.  Back to the drawing board...

[ryan1982]

Hey all,

I’d appreciate any and all insight. I’ve been on a stable dose of 4 MG of Lexapro since the end of June- so about 6 months total. As you can see in my recent posts, I’ve had a few things I’ve had to take due to other issues with my health that I simply couldn’t avoid. 

 

Lately I’ve been feeling very anxious and edgy. I know this time of year does that to people. 

 

My ultimate question is...I’ve been on a stable dose for 6 months. Shouldn’t I be feeling better by now? How do I know that this isn’t “Generalized Anxiety Disorder” as the doctor’s say and not withdrawals? I would think that I would have made more progress by now...

 

Not to be dramatic, I’m just scared I’ll lose this fight. Any insight would be very much appreciated 

[ChessieCat]

On 12/28/2018 at 8:47 AM, ryan1982 said:

had a steroid shot in my back a week ago and that ramped up some symptoms.

 

14 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

Lately I’ve been feeling very anxious and edgy.

 

14 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

I know this time of year does that to people. 

 

Yes, other members have mentioned their symptoms increasing over during Christmas time.

 

Look at the bigger picture.  You had a steroid shot and noticed the difference in symptoms.  Add that to Christmas stress ...

 

My suggestion would be to keep a symptoms journal and rate your symptoms over January.  You might see some improvement that you don't notice.  Sometimes we are so focused on the awful feelings we don't notice that something has improved.  The other thing to realise is that pain and coping with pain has a draining effect on us.  I find that when I have a sort spot that I don't tend to breathe as deeply as when I'm not experiencing an ache or pain somewhere.

 

This link has printable and Excel spreadsheets (Glenmullen symptoms and blank versions) and a Key for rating your symptoms.  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

[ryan1982]

Excellent suggestions, @ChessieCat. I have no doubt that the holidays have caused some subconscious anxiety. Returning to work and having a solid routine seems to have helped me quite a bit. I’ll track my symptoms. 

 

As always, I’m very grateful for your support and guidance!

[ryan1982]

@Carmie @ChessieCat

I’ve been thinking about the switch to liquid and I’m wondering if this is something I actually need to do. It will be a long time until I get to the smaller doses and I’m thinking when I get really small like .2 MG and below, I can learn how to do the water titration. My body just seems to jive with the Lexapro formula I’m on and I don’t want to poke the bear, so to speak. 

 

I appreciate any thoughts you have. Carmie got me thinking as she said she’s going back to her original format after 3 months of withdrawals. 

 

Thanks for your support. 

[Carmie]

Hi Ryan, 

 

If you want to water titrate when you get to the lower doses let me know. Seeing you’re doing well at the moment, as you said, it’s better not to poke the bear. 

 

I’m struggling to read at the moment due to major cog fog, but when I’m able to I’ll come back to your thread and chat to you some more. I’ll have a look at how you doing. 

 

We will win this fight one day. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi Ryan, 

 

Just popping in to see how you’re doing.💚

[ryan1982]

Hey @Carmie-

Doing OK I suppose.  How are you doing?  Work and kids are keeping my mind occupied, which has been great.  I unfortunately had to get another steroid shot in my back from some chronic issues, and I know the drill- it'll throw things off for me for a bit until it rebalances itself. 

 

Thanks so much for checking on me!

[Carmie]

Hi Ryan, 

 

Sorry you had to get another steroid injection. Everything affects our system when we’re sensitised, doesn’t it? Sometimes things are unavoidable, for example if someone has a serious health issue and needs antibiotics, they have no choice. It might be life threatening not to.

 

I’m glad work and your kids are keeping you distracted. I find lots of distractions myself, I think I’ve become a distraction expert!😂 I can’t work because of my illness, but I always find millions of things to occupy myself with. I love arts and crafts, photography, music, DVDs n Netflix, nature, etc etc. 

 

I’m sorry you have chronic back issues, I hope you recover soon from the steroid shot. We always eventually stabilise, no matter what happens to our systems, we just don’t know when. Take care, sending hugs🤗

 

 

[ryan1982]

Hey all,

Quick question for anyone out there.  I would love to begin taking some topical pain creme for my back pain but I'm a little nervous to do so.  Here is the product I'm considering:

 

https://tedsbrainscience.com/products/pain-cream

 

Active Ingredient:
Methyl Salicylate 10%

Other Ingredients:
Arnica Montana Flower Extract, Boswellia Serrata Extract, Butylene Glycol, Caprylyl Glycol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Olivate, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Glyceryl Stearate, Methylsulfonylmethane, PEG-100 Stearate, Phenoxyethanol, Polysorbate-20, Propylene Glycol, Purified Water, Resveratrol, Sorbitan Olivate, Stearic Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Triethanolamine.

Warnings:
People with aspirin allergies should avoid Wintergreen oil (methyl salicylate).
Not recommended for people on blood thinners.
May cause discomfort for people with CRPS II.

 

Does anyone have any concerns with my taking this? I didn't see anything when I searched but just wanted to be sure.  

[ChessieCat]

Test a small amount first.`

[ryan1982]

Thanks, Chessie. 

 

Wondering if you could help me with something. I’ve been grappling with this thought...we’re all so desperate to recover and to get off meds but what happens if once I get off them, my anxiety is so bad that i actually can’t live a normal life? I don’t want to go through all this suffering just to get to the end and realize it was all in vain. 

 

I feel like I eventually will be normal but I surely don’t feel like it yet. Will my body start producing more serotonin eventually? 

[Altostrata]

Ryan, you have a number of health issues. To some degree, your anxiety might be situational. Under any circumstances, learning anxiety-reduction techniques such as meditation will be helpful to you in the long run. See

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Some of your symptoms may be unrelated to your Lexapro taper. Because you might be hypersensitive, you may react oddly to drugs that treat your medical conditions, or the medical conditions themselves might generate symptoms.

 

(When one is hypersensitive to drugs, it makes sense to exhaust non-drug therapies such as diet, physical therapy, chiropractic, exercise, etc. first before taking a drug.)

 

To distinguish what's causing what, please keep daily notes on paper with times of day for when you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

When you have a question about symptoms that might arise from tapering, please post those daily notes here in your Intro topic, we'll need them to answer your questions.

 

When you're going through a rocky period, holding on tapering is a good idea, don't add that stress to whatever else you're going through.

 

How much fish oil are you taking now? When you tried magnesium, what type and dosage did you take?

 

Don't worry about making serotonin. Recovering from adverse drug effects is a whole-body project.

[ryan1982]

Thanks, Alto.  That's fair; I keep telling my wife that if I can just get this back stuff figured out, then I'd be good.  I honestly think that I can't begin the rest of my taper until I 'm in less pain.  I've become obsessed with beating it and it causes a lot of mental anguish when I feel like I've regressed from a pain standpoint. 

 

I actually don't take anything at all for pain- I pretty much live with a TENs unit- and I have an implant for interstitial cystitis.  I'm in quite a pickle as I need meds for my other conditions but I just can't seem to physically or mentally tolerate them now that I'm in withdrawals.  I'm through feeling sorry for myself.  I'm all about recovery and I know there will be some stumbles but I'm ready to heal.  Anger at the drug companies and doctors is another story...that's a rant none of us have time for.

 

This is the fish oil I take (500MG)...I take one per day:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088BKGUM/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1  

 

I took 200 MG of magnesium glycinate and it made me super dizzy and nauseous:

https://www.amazon.com/KAL-Magnesium-Glycinate-Chelated-Servings/dp/B00013YZ1Q/ref=sr_1_5_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1547751122&sr=1-5&keywords=magnesium%2Bglycinate&th=1

 

Lastly, I want to try curcumin and i've read the thread on it.  Here's the type I would like to try:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NBA8DZF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  

 

As always, I'm so appreciative you, the rest of the mods like Chessie, Brass and Carmie, and the rest of the folks on this site.  I'd be lost if not for y'all.  Thank you so much.