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jozeff: trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great


jozeff

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jozeff, 

 

I don’t know anything about the cold showers n how they affect you. I love my warm showers😀. On a hot day here a cold shower is nice though. I’ve been reading some of your thread. I’m sorry you’re so depressed. This journey is hard. 

 

I see you’ve gone up n down a few times with your dosing. I was looking over old notes last night. I haven’t kept a lot but I saw from the couple of times I tapered incorrectly   (before I found surviving antidepressants) it took me about three months or a little bit longer to stabilise but I always ended up stabilising again. It takes time. The important thing is to not make too many changes n let the brain reach homeostasis again. 

 

You wouldnt believe it, I think I’ve accidentally double dosed again yesterday night. It’s only the second time n each time it was only for one day. I’m still stabilising too from changing over to compounded tablets. It’s taken two months or so so far. It takes as long as it takes. I don’t go by a calendar. I go according to how my body feels. 

 

I think years ago I made some mistakes with calculations n ended up updosing for ages before I realised but I’ve been careful since then, except for these two times. It’s easy to do as our brains are so bad. I’m going to get a Monday to Friday tablet holder n put the capsules in there from now on so no more mistakes! 

 

Hope you feel a bit better soon, Sending hugs 🤗

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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Hi carmie,

 

Thank you for your thoughts! Appreciate it.

Yes we just have to be patient indeed. Sometimes I feel stable and I want to taper but then, next day, I feel like crap and I'm glad I didn't.

 

Time is the healer!!

 

Have a nice day and thnx again.

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
On 10/25/2018 at 1:42 AM, jozeff said:

Question about cold showers:

 

 

I've been taking ice cold showers now for 6 days in a row and although it's very refreshing on the moment I have this dreadful feeling now for days. Very sad, depressed, suicidal ideation and just feeling anxious and blah.

 

Could this have something to do with cold showering? I mean all I read is that cold shower is so good for depression treatment. 

Ok, it kicks your nervous system for a while but could it be so activating that it changes my mood during the entire day??

 

I haven't tried the cold shower thing myself, but I think it's possible they could have an effect, depending on how sensitive your system is.  All the articles saying cold showers are good for depression are likely to be based on studies that were probably done on people whose nervous systems weren't unstable and sensitive from AD withdrawal.  Individual responses will vary, just as with supplements, exercise, and so on.  If you're concerned, try going without the cold showers (have warm showers instead) and see if you feel better.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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Tnx songbird!

 

That's probably true.

 

Just try it😁😁

 

Have a great day!!

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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How are you progressing?

I think you should follow your instinct , listen to your body.. My own experience is that what I can tolerate varies. I like warmth, hot fires, sauna, hot baths.. especially after outdoor swimming in a heated pool. You don't want to chill the body. Everyone runs at a different body temperature though. I find I can tolerate hot temperatures well but not cold. However, I can see others run so much hotter and thus can tolerate cold well, even crave it. It's true that cold showers are supposed to generate thermogenesis but still you might want to check in with your nervous system. I think the body is quite instinctual . Possibly. It's true that some things might be counter intuitive.

I feel like the drugs have contributed to my homeostatic issues. Not being able to get warm ever. 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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21 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hi Nick,

 

I spent quite some time yesterday reading and analysing your 14 page introduction topic. 

 

First of all I'm impressed by the way you talk about yourself and describe your feelings. You have come a long way!

 

It's disturbing that they put a 14 year old on such a high dose to be honest.

 

The reason I am so interested in your story is that I've been struggling with AD myself for 19 years and that I'm really eager to get rid of this stuff but I am imprisoned by it in some way.

 

I was on venlafaxine for years but the last 26 months or so I'm taking citalopram. I played a lot wothy dose between 15 and 25 mg and that sensitised me quite a bit.

 

I'm a 42 year old male btw..

I started a citalopram taper in April 2018 and decreased 0.1 mg every day.
After 85 days of tapering I crashed so I stayed on 16.5 mg for a couple of weeks. I felt so bad that I updosed to 18 mg to feel better. That didn't really help because my body had to get used to that dose also. I'm on 18 mg citalopram now since August 14th 2018. Some good days, some bad ones. Symptoms are always different. Not stable yet.

 

I want to start brass monkeys slide method soon. I'm thinking about 2.5% per week with a 3 week hold. But, I need to be absolutely as stable as possible before I start tapering again.

 

You went from 40 to 45 mg because you were desperate. The updose cost you a lot of trouble.

 

How long exactly did you hold at 45 before tapering?

 

I was very desperate also when I reached 16.5 mg and felt absolutely horrible. Anxious, depressed like hell and extremely agitated. The updose to 18 gave me a few days relief but that lasted not very long and probably made things worse.

 

So, I'm taking 18 mg now for 10 weeks and hoping every day to wake up stable. Each time I think I'm there......black clouds and dark thoughts this will never end..

 

When do you suggest I should start tapering again?

 

What you told about the racing thought was very recognisable. Sometimes we feel relaxed and out of nowhere come these worries and evil thoughts. Why??

Sometimes I feel relaxed and I suddenly think: this is not right.....I should be feeling like crap and.......boom! I feel like sh..

 

You will make it eventually Nick! It's a long road of suffering. You did it quite smart fortunately. Some people just CT 40 mg citalopram and ruin quite a few years. 

 

 

Summer is coming for you. I live in the Netherlands and too bad...winter is on its way after having the best summer in my 42 years on this earth. Swimming every day in my sons small pool with my wife. Just wonderful.

 

 

Happy healing Nick and I keep an eye on your progress!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

Jozeff, hey bro.

 

So , it seems to me that you've had drug changes and dose changes quite a bit over the last little while.

 

Switching from one drug to another, as you did when you went onto Citalopram from Venlafaxine would have caused some disruption to your nervous system. Then tapering the drug the way you did, without a percentage decrease,  to reach 16.5mg Citalopram would have disrupted your nervous system even further. 

 

The increase in dose, probably helped a little but your CNS has been very rocked by all of this. The CNS, especially when taking these drugs for a while, is a fragile system. 

 

Once the CNS has been destabilised, it can produce a lot of symptoms which feel very unpleasant . The CNS repairs itself and stabilises itself slowly - far slower than we would ever like it to. Its really frustrating - however its so important to remember that it does repair itself, and with time these symptoms go away as our systems regain homeostasis. 

 

What your most likely dealing with is similar to what i dealt with in mid-late 2015 when i tapered too fast for my nervous system. 

I had a rough time and i was scared, but with time i learnt how to accept the symptoms, changing day in, day out. I noticed slow improvements but did not want to risk tapering until i felt truly settled. If our CNS has been de-stabilised, then we shouldn't push it further by making changes to drug dose. This includes changing the type of drug, the dose and even the time of day we take it. Pushing it further will destabilise us further, and result in more intense symptoms and a longer amount of time will be needed to become stable and reach homeostasis. 

It all sounds quite overwhelming and scary, but in all honesty, its very simple and we don't actually need to do anything. What worked for me is i just held at my dose. Literally for over a year. I slowly began to notice my system was settling, and i waited and waited until i felt OK to taper. I didn't necessarily feel "good" but i didn't have symptoms coming and going. I felt "stable", and when that happens, you'll know.

 

My advice would be to wait. You are on the see-saw of WD right now, and its very tempting to do something, to get off these dam drugs, but we have to be patient. 

It is so so important to remove yourself from the situation and try and see it in a logical way. Tapering right now for you would most likely result in you feeling worse. 

I don't know this for sure, this is just from my experience. Other members and some moderators may have different ideas, so its good to look at all the options and make an informed decision. 

 

I would wait it out Jozeff. Let your system settle, which could take a few months. But you will begin to feel more stable over time. Looking back on it now, i am so glad i did it the way i did. I made a commitment to wait until i stabilised. I felt like crap, but i began to feel better. And then once i felt calm and good enough, i slowly began tapering and have since reduced more than half my dose. Im in a little wave at the moment from doing a couple of drops too close together, but in general i have been feeling a lot better being on this lower dose. There are road bumps along the way, but over time we learn how to deal with the symptoms and they actually lose a lot of their power. Being gentle on your self and your body, eating well, getting plenty of rest and doing light exercise will help to settle your CNS faster. Don't push yourself physically or mentally. Try and practice mindfulness and deep breathing techniques. Take long warm baths with magnesium salts. Drink calming tea and listen to soft music. Sit in the forest or go for a walk in nature. These are all things that helped me settle my CNS. Don't lose hope, you'll be fine - just take it one day at a time and know that eventually, this too shall pass and you'll be in a place of light where you are ready to resume tapering. 

 

When you do resume though, please go slow. Look into small reductions of 1-2% weekly for three or four weeks and then hold for a further two to three weeks. You'll have minimal symptoms, most likely and be able to live a functional life, whilst reducing your dose. 

 

Ill send you this in a PM too just incase you don't check here.

 

All the best bro 

Nick

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added quote and moved to jozeff's Intro topic

Started Citalopram in 2005 (aged 15) for apparent "OCD" - 60mg 

July 2015 attempted 2 x 10% + cuts 4 weeks apart. WD symptoms intense at times. Need to slow down.

 

November 2016 - Resumed taper. 1.25 - 1.5% decrease weekly approx.

44.5mg November 2016. Jan 2017 42.5 mg. March 2017 40 mg. June 2017 37mg. September 2018 22mg. Nov 2018 Holding at 22mg to stabilise from moderate wave. January 2020 - Holding, mostly feeling fine, but still having some waves at times. 

 

February 2020 - Resumed taper , 1.5% reduction weekly/every two weeks. 

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Thanks a lot Nick!

 

Appreciate it a lot. I'll wait some more weeks/months before tapering. I'm on my current dose for 10 weeks now. It's going on and off With Me. It's All About distraction you know. I just went for a walk in the Wind, looked at the grey clouds.... This Intense sadness comes over me. I Began thinking a lot of negative things like suicidal ideation, why am I here, is it ever gonna change. When I'm alone I must be distracted by something or else my thoughts start racing.

 

That's the biggest problem right now. I got this like I Want To Cry Feeling. Just drink a cup of coffee watch some TV do something else and it's gone.

 

I have had this all my life but it's very intense right now. You know, feeling a little down now and then isn't the major problem if she can handle it. 

 

I'm just a little scared it's me and it's not withdrawal. It's just my old self coming through. Het very hard to distinguis. The doctor immediately tells me that it's underlying problems coming again.

 

That's how they keep you on medication......

 

 

Thanks Again and I hope you will end your taper one day and all this will be behind you!

 

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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Thank you India and Nick,

 

Well it's been a tough few days to be honest. Last week started awful but things cleared on Thursday. Weekend was ok, lot of eating and sitting. 

 

Today was hellish however. I started ok but decided not to go to work suddenly. I took my boy to school and drove around just without a purpose and ended up watching TV which I enjoyed.

My wife came home around noon and I took a bath. While sitting in the warm water I started feeling very uncomfortable and sad. Some sad nervous feeling bthat crawled up my neck in my head. I wanted to cry but couldn't. Depressed feeling started to grow. 

I got out of bath and told my pregnant wife that u didn't feel good and felt very sad and down. She said that's a pity for me and that she didn't know what to do. 

It's always something with you and I'm tired listening to these problems..

 

I said I just needed a shoulder to cry on or a pat on the head for 5 minutes.

She said she just came home from work and my mood started draining her energy. I said it's only 5 minutes to reload a bit and I can go on with the rest of the day. 

She started creating some space between us by doing laundry, walking the dog etc.. anything but speaking to me.

After a hour or two she asked how I felt. I said that I was bothered that my wife is not capable of holding me for 5 minutes to calm me down a bit and relieve my sadness. She was agitated again and walked away and started crying herself.

 

Now, SHE felt bad and I am the one who doesn't know what SHE needs. World upside down suddenly.

 

I cried because I felt so powerless. She walked away again and didn't speak for the rest of the day.

 

I felt very down and misunderstood. I wanted to help my son with some things but he didn't want to listen to me.

 

I took a oxazepam pill to calm down a bit.

 

I started walking and thought about suicide again. I walked towards the railway and watched 2 trains passing at high speed. Just thinking...what if I just walked.... everything would end for me. All my troubles..gone in one second.

 

I walked halfway back to my house hoping to see my wife looking for me in the dark because I left in a very sad mood and I was already away for an hour. 

 

I got home to discover that my wife was reading a little story to our son and she was completely relaxed and not worried at all.

I said I was disappointed in the day. She said nothing and went to bed at 7 in the evening because she had her famous headache...

Redicilously early which of course made me agitated again.

 

I felt utter despair andy thoughts were racing like a madman. Not a panic attack but something very nervous and unpredictable. I took another oxazepam and started writing this little adventure.

 

I am a recovered alcoholic. I have been completely sober since 19 April 2014...

 

These are the moments that I crave for some alcohol. Just the immediate relaxation.

 

I don't know if it's withdrawal or just a fu..... Evil day. 

 

I know my wife is pregnant but we have been together for ten years. When I'm emotionally very unstable she tends to stay as far away from me as possible. Crying or extreme anxiety does not impress her whatsoever and she just sighs and gets tremendously annoyed by my desperate behavior.

 

I would love to feel her hand on my shoulder just for two minutes to feel that I'm not alone in this.

 

She said that it's too frustrating for her that some days it's ok but the next I feel sad, anxious or something else again.

 

I told her about waves and windows but she didn't seem to listen or even care....yeah, yeah that story again.

 

Well, she listens to my problems and stories you know and she calls a psychologist, gets my prescription meds, she found a coach to help me with ADD. I just want her to hug me once when I need it or take my hand and tell me everything will be ok.

 

A hug means more than a hundred words in some situations.

 

Well that's my story for now 

 

Hope you all had a wonderful day!!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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You needed a moment of love and physical affection but she wasn't able to give it. She couldn't meet your needs. I think women often get used to have their affections met but can be poor reciprocators . It is that classic push pull. I think you are having a very human response to some distressing things . I think many of us are experiencing this with our loved ones. Their inability to understand what we are going through, and their imperfect attachment styles and emotional attunement. I know I experience this wound a lot. I am lucky enough to be discussing it with my therapist which helps. I will write more tomorrow. Keep going, you will get there. Amazing advice from Nick. I am going to use it myself. Stabilising above all else. 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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7 hours ago, jozeff said:

Well, she listens to my problems and stories you know and she calls a psychologist, gets my prescription meds, she found a coach to help me with ADD. I just want her to hug me once when I need it or take my hand and tell me everything will be ok.

I feel this would be good to put to her. Maybe you could have a couple's therapy session, or write to her. It's important to communicate your needs.

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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Thank you guys for your wise words, appreciate it a lot!

I really helps to write it down and read peoples reactions.

 

We went to bed very agitated and having a fight. This morning I was no feeling well and she acted normally.bas soon as she felt my mood she got very very upset. Swearing, almost hitting me and screaming in the house in front of our 7 year old. 

I went to work in a very fu.... up mood. I was pretty derealized and anxious most of the day. In the afternoon things started to clear.

 

When I got home she cooked and asked me how I was feeling. Heart warming to come home like this.

My CNS has had a big bang and I felt off most of the day.

 

Without AD it would have been better maybe but I feel my nerves are ramped up by this fight. Very unpleasant feeling .

Bad mood, anxiety and high heart rate all day..

 

Do you guys recognize this?

 

Tnx

Jozeff

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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On 10/30/2018 at 7:04 PM, jozeff said:

We went to bed very agitated and having a fight. This morning I was no feeling well and she acted normally.bas soon as she felt my mood she got very very upset. Swearing, almost hitting me and screaming in the house in front of our 7 year old. 

I went to work in a very fu.... up mood. I was pretty derealized and anxious most of the day. In the afternoon things started to clear.

 

I'm not surprised! An incredible amount of stress and so many needs to negotiate. You did well not to collapse and get to work.

On 10/30/2018 at 7:04 PM, jozeff said:

When I got home she cooked and asked me how I was feeling. Heart warming to come home like this.

My CNS has had a big bang and I felt off most of the day.

Thank goodness! You definitely deserved this warmth. Perhaps she has a different love language and is less demonstrative. I am glad she was able to do this. These things tend to have a domino effect. Warmth breads, warmth, affection breeds affection. Obviously I am only getting a minute window into your relationship dynamic. I hope that you will be able to resolve your need for affection with her. That recipriocity. I feel that WD changes us so much, it has huge implications for the dynamics of our relationships; roles change, personalities change, it throws everything into chaos when we least need chaos. Perhaps the way of framing this is how strong we are to negotiate all this and still survive. I notice that my interactions with others are based on them relating to me as if I were a functional being, rather than the 20%-40% functionality I currently have. No matter how many times I talk about the severity of the symptoms I can tell they cannot relate to the fragility of my reality. It's sort of like Huxley's "Doors of Perception/Heaven&Hell".

 

“We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves. The martyrs go hand in hand into the arena; they are crucified alone. Embraced, the lovers desperately try to fuse their insulated ecstasies into a single self-transcendence; in vain. By its very nature every embodied spirit is doomed to suffer and enjoy in solitude. Sensations, feelings, insights, fancies - all these are private and, except through symbols and at second hand, incommunicable. We can pool information about experiences, but never the experiences themselves. From family to nation, every human group is a society of island universes. Most island universes are sufficiently like one another to Permit of inferential understanding or even of mutual empathy or "feeling into." Thus, remembering our own bereavements and humiliations, we can condole with others in analogous circumstances, can put ourselves (always, of course, in a slightly Pickwickian sense) in their places. But in certain cases communication between universes is incomplete or even nonexistent. The mind is its own place, and the Places inhabited by the insane and the exceptionally gifted are so different from the places where ordinary men and women live, that there is little or no common ground of memory to serve as a basis for understanding or fellow feeling. Words are uttered, but fail to enlighten. The things and events to which the symbols refer belong to mutually exclusive realms of experience.” 

 

Maybe this sounds quite bleak and one could argue for the interconnectedness of all things. Perhaps we connect through other points of references. No two realities are the same but we definitely know when we experience moments of communion and shared meaning. That is why we perceive ourselves to be compatible or incompatible with others perhaps.

On 10/30/2018 at 7:04 PM, jozeff said:

Without AD it would have been better maybe but I feel my nerves are ramped up by this fight. Very unpleasant feeling .

Bad mood, anxiety and high heart rate all day..

 

The way I am reacting to situations that previously may have only perturbed me slightly is bizarre. The intensity of anxiety in relation to extremely small things. The feel of being 'under threat', but coming from a very physical place  or as they term it on this site, "neuro-emotions" is extreme. Basically, I am changed, though I am able to manage the symptoms more now, my previous reality no longer exists. Derealization has been hands down the worst symptom for me. 3 f**king months of feeling like I am in a goddamn dream and not a technicolour one, more of day after the night before, like when you have overindulged at a party and are experiencing the chemical flatline from the hangover. Obviously losing one's cognitive capacities is disturbing too.

 

I say this to you as much as I do to myself. though I cannot say that I have experienced a true 0/10 of derealization, a return to my pre-withdrawal state, where I realise now that despite my depressive episodes I had a certain sense of mental clarity- the world felt real, even in depression and anxiety, we are moving, changing, healing, in a non-linear way. Perhaps the changes are so subtle that we do not register them, because the comparatives are less extreme and because we experience the ups and downs within that incremental movement towards healing. It's quite well known that one can create the conditions ripe for healing. Of course, it's not easy. I really get that. Today I felt so down about this DR, and stripped brain feeling. Yes, I know the logic of it, down regulated SERT receptors. I guess it is so hard because it is full of unknowns. I do know that the more I focus on it, at the times, the worse it gets. But sometimes even focusing away does not have any affect, it will overtake me. I am still having perceptual issues-- feeling far away from everything.

 

Back to your anxiety response. I notice that it takes a very long time for my stress response to calm, and it is easily aroused. You are already maxed out and then the emotional stress on top of that is bound to send your body into those symptoms.

Sometimes normalising this can actually start off the process of engaging the parasympathetic NS? I know everyone is different.

The good news is there was a period when it started to clear.

 

We have to hold onto good moments. I cannot remember the quote exactly. It says, "hold onto what is good, even if it is a handful of sand". I actually find the visual image of that very powerful too, of a hand grasping the earth or sand. Very therapeutic to do also.

 

My worst days are very much about the sentiment, "when the hell is this going to end?". Who doesn't wish for spontaneous healing. Who really wants to go through this journey. Let's face it if we had the choice we wouldn't. I believe it is impossible to be positive about this all the time. You'd have to be a saint to do that. And we are not saints, we are humans, stuck in this unfortunate hell-mouth of a ride. I'm not saying we shouldn't find meaning out of it, and that there aren't positives of coming out of it. That balance is a tightrope. I am 35 and while all my friends are married and having children, or having great careers I am stuck and it's painful, no taking that a way. Underneath all life's adversities is a sociable and warm soul that needs connection with the world. I believe in a different set of circumstances I could have flourished, so it is hard to be in this imposed and lonely exile and there are days when I grieve, days when I rage inside. This has basically dominated my life for over a year now. Crucial years for me. I bring this up in context, context of what is going on for you. I think you are doing incredibly well to be working and parenting and keeping a relationship going. You should commend yourself everyday. even with company it is an incredibly lonely experience.

However, I refuse to give up hope that we will recover. I hope that in the not so distant future we will be writing our success stories. I pray to the universe that that happens. I cannot believe that our nervous systems will not heal. I started to research the area of the brain that they believe to produce derealization. Perhaps this is key. I will keep you informed. As  for holding- I have been holding on 6 mg for about 6 weeks now. It feels like a lifetime but it's actually not that long retrospectively. I thought about updosing to my previous dose at 10mg for stability and then starting the taper once this has stabilised me on the off chance that I might return to where I was in Spring 2017..suffering but not derealized!!! From everything I have read, the too fast withdrawal caused my nervous system so much fall out that the chances are I wouldn't return to that state anyway. It's true it's very much a trial and error and there are no guarantees but sometimes I dream of returning to that state and then doing the slow taper........... I imagine how that might go- painfree. I've made the decision to stabilize and not make any more changes. It's a very personal decision only you can take. But the notion of stability and sticking does really make sense.

 

Keep updating. Keep believing.
 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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On 10/29/2018 at 6:43 PM, jozeff said:

I am a recovered alcoholic. I have been completely sober since 19 April 2014...

Amazing achievement. Have you considered passiflora and valerian for you anxiety? You'd obviosuly check the interactions with your meds. I may have mentioned this before. The passiflora and KALMS seemed to have calmed my 4am cortisol spikes.

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment
On 10/29/2018 at 1:43 PM, jozeff said:

Thank you India and Nick,

 

Well it's been a tough few days to be honest. Last week started awful but things cleared on Thursday. Weekend was ok, lot of eating and sitting. 

 

Today was hellish however. I started ok but decided not to go to work suddenly. I took my boy to school and drove around just without a purpose and ended up watching TV which I enjoyed.

My wife came home around noon and I took a bath. While sitting in the warm water I started feeling very uncomfortable and sad. Some sad nervous feeling bthat crawled up my neck in my head. I wanted to cry but couldn't. Depressed feeling started to grow. 

I got out of bath and told my pregnant wife that u didn't feel good and felt very sad and down. She said that's a pity for me and that she didn't know what to do. 

It's always something with you and I'm tired listening to these problems..

 

I said I just needed a shoulder to cry on or a pat on the head for 5 minutes.

She said she just came home from work and my mood started draining her energy. I said it's only 5 minutes to reload a bit and I can go on with the rest of the day. 

She started creating some space between us by doing laundry, walking the dog etc.. anything but speaking to me.

After a hour or two she asked how I felt. I said that I was bothered that my wife is not capable of holding me for 5 minutes to calm me down a bit and relieve my sadness. She was agitated again and walked away and started crying herself.

 

Now, SHE felt bad and I am the one who doesn't know what SHE needs. World upside down suddenly.

 

I cried because I felt so powerless. She walked away again and didn't speak for the rest of the day.

 

I felt very down and misunderstood. I wanted to help my son with some things but he didn't want to listen to me.

 

I took a oxazepam pill to calm down a bit.

 

I started walking and thought about suicide again. I walked towards the railway and watched 2 trains passing at high speed. Just thinking...what if I just walked.... everything would end for me. All my troubles..gone in one second.

 

I walked halfway back to my house hoping to see my wife looking for me in the dark because I left in a very sad mood and I was already away for an hour. 

 

I got home to discover that my wife was reading a little story to our son and she was completely relaxed and not worried at all.

I said I was disappointed in the day. She said nothing and went to bed at 7 in the evening because she had her famous headache...

Redicilously early which of course made me agitated again.

 

I felt utter despair andy thoughts were racing like a madman. Not a panic attack but something very nervous and unpredictable. I took another oxazepam and started writing this little adventure.

 

I am a recovered alcoholic. I have been completely sober since 19 April 2014...

 

These are the moments that I crave for some alcohol. Just the immediate relaxation.

 

I don't know if it's withdrawal or just a fu..... Evil day. 

 

I know my wife is pregnant but we have been together for ten years. When I'm emotionally very unstable she tends to stay as far away from me as possible. Crying or extreme anxiety does not impress her whatsoever and she just sighs and gets tremendously annoyed by my desperate behavior.

 

I would love to feel her hand on my shoulder just for two minutes to feel that I'm not alone in this.

 

She said that it's too frustrating for her that some days it's ok but the next I feel sad, anxious or something else again.

 

I told her about waves and windows but she didn't seem to listen or even care....yeah, yeah that story again.

 

Well, she listens to my problems and stories you know and she calls a psychologist, gets my prescription meds, she found a coach to help me with ADD. I just want her to hug me once when I need it or take my hand and tell me everything will be ok.

 

A hug means more than a hundred words in some situations.

 

Well that's my story for now 

 

Hope you all had a wonderful day!!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

Jozeff, 

 

I'm so sorry, I know how hard that must be. My boyfriend and my mom have been my biggest supporters through this, but I can feel my boyfriend getting tired of it. Just the other day he was ranting about all of it and I just started sobbing(go figure) he got really mad and started punching stuff saying he can't say anything without me getting upset, and then seconds later grabbed me and hugged me saying he's sorry and he knows it's not my fault. I can understand his frustration but I literally have no control over it and it kills me. 

 

Im glad your wife was better to you when you got home. Are you still able to work regularly? Since quitting Lexapro for the second time I only work part time and I think I'm about to have to quit for a while. I've had to go to the bathroom and cry multiple times today and I know I'm slacking and not able to do my best:( 

 

I hope you're doing better today!! 

End of August 2015 was put on 10mg Lexapro for anxiety.

Quit cold turkey in June 2016.

Reinstated 5 mg of Lexapro November 2016. I took 5 mg for 3 months and I tapered 10% every month with a few holds in between. I made the drop to 0 September 2018 and I've been completely off meds for a month. 

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Hi India, Nick, sadandconfused,

 

 

Thanks very much for your encouraging words. Appreciate of the lot.

 

This website and the people on it have been of great help in the last few months. You know, after an hard day's work or an argument with somebody or just when I'm feeling down, I visit survivingantidepressants and it helped me a lot to see other people struggle in the same way as I do.

 

For my environment it's very hard to understand exactly. I told my mum recently that I had these withdrawal like symptoms. She has been a nurse for over 40 years. She told me that everybody has these problems someday and if you just stop thinking about it they will disappear. It's just a normal strobile that everybody has according to her. 

 

This withdrawal is ferry famous in opiates and alcohol and cigarettes. As I told you I've been an alcoholic for years. Vis Trouble however is Making Me alot Worse than my alcohol withdrawal. With alcohol it's we're getting better every day. You lose weight, you get less fatigued, your blood sugar and blood pressure get better. It's easy to measure you are healing.

 

With anti-depressants it's another thing. Most people don't even understand why you take them in the first place. 

 

The last 3 days have been a lot better than the beginning of the week. I had a lot of derealisation and depressed symptoms.

 

Indeed I do work full time at a chemical laboratory. It's not easy because I have to travel 2 hours a day so I am away most of the day.

 

At home I feel pretty ok but my seven year old son is trying to ignore me a lot lately. This makes me very tired sometimes.

 

My wife is fantastic woman. I should not be complaining about my withdrawal this much especially since she is pregnant now. It's always a balance to cope with one another's troubles. 

 

I had this fight last week with my wife and it took me 3 full days to recover. That's ridiculous. I kept feeling these nerves aching and I was very agitated in myself. 

 

Yesterday I had a conflict with a colleague and I felt my neck and shoulder skin burning from tension. this also took me the rest of the day to come down. These very tight shoulder and neck muscles are killing me sometimes.

 

My suicidal ideation has decreased a great deal. Man, those feelings are evil...... I felt extremely guilty about them because of my little boy and my pregnant wife.

 

 

So, sadandconfused glad to hear your boyfriend is an understanding person. Sound like a great guy. I can feel your struggle. I hope that you will be feeling a lot better soon! You deserve it, That's for sure.

 

India, thank you for your suggestion. I don't know if I can take passiflora together with my citalopram. It's not quite clear to me. I have to find some stuff about that. Yes the abstinence is great. I stopped counting the days. I'm counting in years now 😉

Hope you are doing great.

 

Nick, thanks for your advice. I'll be following your topic as well because it's quite similar to mine. And you seem like a great guy to me! I hope your tapering will continue to be a succes. I wish you all the luck in the world. You'll be very glad someday you did it the way you did.

 

 

I'll dive into your topics again

 I had very little time to react....sorry...busy times. I'll take some time to support you guys.

 

 

Happy healing everybody!!

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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Hi guys,

 

Little update here...

 

It's been a rough few days. I had a weekend and everything seemed ok but I have this extremely agitated feeling after waking up. I don't know if it's still from my fight with my wife last week all the argument with my colleague last Friday which ramped up my nerves.

 

I've had this strange anxious agitated feeling for the whole weekend. Now it's Monday morning and I have to go to work and I am pretty nervous already.

 

I still can't believe this might be due to my fast taper from April and my small updose 6 weeks later.

 

You know sometimes everything seems to be getting better but then bam! A nervousness you cannot believe and I thought I'd never experience again.

 

 

Well, happy day you all,!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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@jozeff I try to keep up with other's posts but tbh, my organisational memory is quite shot.. I agree, I also have the same issue. In the sense that sometimes you feel as if we are the only ones posting, to ourselves. I think that aside from tapering advice from moderators we are all looking for emotional support. It is really hard to give it when we need it. I also think it is tricky as some other posts get more traffic but you have to keep posts about your own situation to your introduction topic.

I must admit I have gotten behind with record notes and I need to force myself back into doing this. Unconscious despondency or avoidance?

On the subject of tapering and holding. I've now been holding on 6mg since the 28th September, but actually measuring the dosage for 4 weeks. I am still feeling pretty horrendous. I don't have the cortisol spikes at 4am but I am still constantly derealized with mild variations on it's intensity, and the memory issues/cognitive fog are slightly better but still pretty bad. I realise I have anhedonia as a result of that. The flattening effect of the anti-depressant. I am no where near to how I felt on 10mg. Perhaps I need to wait longer, I only feel a minute margin of difference.

 

The question is, how does one define stability? How do you measure it? I see it as pretty relative to previous states. I mean feeling like myself again, means not being derealized, or having memory deficits. I would take back my old depression any day to get rid of this chemical WD feeling, this drug like haze. That was me on the Citalopram though but I remember a time before when I was depressed but never derealized. For others stabilsation and recovery will surely look different. But I am assume you mustn't feel so bad, so awful that another drop would collapse you? At the same time, I understand that WD is not going to be a painless process but like Gridley says 5 weeks is not that long. I suppose you need others who have been through it to talk about their experiences of tapering and what stability felt like. I'm assuming we'll know it when we arrive at it? It is will feel different for everyone?

In terms of dropping dosage. The drop from 20mg to 10mg was nothing compared to the drop from 10mg to zero. Then again, I dropped to 10mg for 3 months and then after my first withdrawal I went back on 10mg for 6 months. It was a long time for my body to adjust. Then I screwed myself over by doing to 10mg to zero drop in 4 weeks! That was July. Now I have not been able to get back to any kind of normality. But I know others that have jumped off 10mg and been fine. We are all different. I find it so odd that doctor;s dismiss individual variations. Incidentally, does anyone have a percentage of how many SSRI users will experience our kind of protracted withdrawal? I think Davies says 56%.

 

When I went from 20mg to 10mg I had some panic attacks and ended up in A and E . I think it is withdrawal. The meds regulate the cortisol and lowering the dosage is slowly removing this mechanism. So my friend says, he says I need to keep doing things like qi gong and exercise, deep breeathing and change my enivronment to create epigenic changes, and be able to self-regulate. Also, we have such a low level of serotonin after these drugs that we need to rebuild, plus as all the stress the brain and body is under from the WD...physical stress.

 

What do you think?

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

Hi India,

 

Thank you so much!

 

Appreciate it a lot. I have little time lately to reply a lot and my wrists and fingers are killing me so I cannot type very comfortably. 

 

How do you know it when you have a cortisol spike? I happen to have some discomfort last mornings when I have this tingling nasty nervousness in my upper chest and shoulders. Like I need to move and start to have panic but I really don't. This feeling moves to my forehead and makese feel down and dreadful.

 

Thanks again and you'll hear from me soon ok?

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How are you doing? Has your agitation subsided a bit? It is a horrible feeling when one wakes up in a state of restlessness. I find when that happens I just start doing something or listen to something straight away after I wake up to get my thoughts away from the agitation. I find lying in bed n doing nothing makes it worse. 

 

Hoping youre feeling a little better. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

Link to comment

Hi Carmie,

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Well, the restlessness is a little bit better now. Its late in the evening here and thats the time when i'm almost always completely calm. Its unbelievable that I can feel so relaxed at night and so nervous and hopeless in the morning.

If I could figure out how this works I'd be saved for the rest of my life.

I am so agitated sometimes in the morning. Heart rate, irritable, nervous, chest pain etc.. All in the morning. The depressed feeling is highest around noon and almost absent in the evening as well.

I drink a lot of coffee and i'm thinking of giving that up maybe. 

 

Yes, doing nothing and lying in bed makes it all a lot worse. I decided to stay home from work a couple of weeks ago and it was by far the worst day in the last months.....

Just focusing on my trouble all day, awful!

 

How are you doing?

 

Hope you are great and I wish you all the best

cheers

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Administrator

Hi, jozeff. What time of day do you take citalopram?
 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Hi alto and Carmie,

 

My agitation is fluctuating a bit. My neck and shoulders are tense and feel nervous. This starts as soon as I get out of bed. My wife tends to talk about a lot of things like planning stuff, talking about work in the morning because she is awake and energized. My son is very awake and excited about school etc.. this ramps up my nervousness sometimes andakes me agitated sometimes.

 

I do drink a lot of coffee because itakes me feel so good right after drinking it ...

 

I have a schedule that I fill in meticulously. Everything I eat, 15 sorts of emotions and graded from 1 to 10.

 

I hope to extract the holy Grail some day right out of my symptoms a schedule 😉

 

I wake up ok.

0730 agitation starts 

0900 at work agitation subsided.

1100 anxiety and/or restlessness starts

After noon things calm down

Afternoon little bit down and upset

After 2000 feel ok and relaxed most of the time.

In bed some anxiety some times before going to sleep.

 

I take 10 mg citalopram in the morning and 8 mg around 1900.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

 

Jozeff

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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To add: I bought some ashwahaganda today and took 250 mg just to try it..

 

Do you have experience with this stuff?

 

 

I'm quite agitated and have a tight chest and I react way to stressed to my colleagues and my family.

 

I tend to use as little oxazepam as possible, maybe 10 mg in 2 weeks, so I'm looking for other solutions like diet, sleep, exercise.

 

See my previous message for answers to your questions Alto.

 

 

Cheers and have a great day!

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Moderator

Hi jozeff,

Ashwagandha herb for anxiety, stress, and toxic overload

Here's our topic on that ^

 

I have no personal experience with this one myself. 

Take a look/see at the link.  And then.......proceed with caution.  Caution meaning.....low dose start, no other changes while trying, etc.

It looks like varying reactions to it.

Are you in a place, where what you do(for work) allows you to access information and articles easily?  I'm just wondering as I recall that you might have some pharma background?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited by manymoretodays
spelling

2022 May- continuing with limited activity on site, just something I need to do right now

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

Link to comment

Hi manymoretodays,

 

Thanks for the link. Yes, I am a chemist but not at all specialized in pharma. I'm an all-around analytical chemist and I work in a lab. I have enough resources for articles and websites. Too many actually....I read a lot of stuff and I get way too much info sometimes.

Cheers

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Administrator
13 hours ago, jozeff said:

I wake up ok.

0730 agitation starts 

0900 at work agitation subsided.

1100 anxiety and/or restlessness starts

After noon things calm down

Afternoon little bit down and upset

After 2000 feel ok and relaxed most of the time.

In bed some anxiety some times before going to sleep.

 

I take 10 mg citalopram in the morning and 8 mg around 1900.

 

What time of day do you take citalopram? Please include it in your diary. We need to know your symptoms before and after you take your drugs.

 

Do you feel better or worse after you take it?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Alto, thanks for your thoughts.

 

As I mentioned in my post I take 10 mg citalopram in the morning and 8 mg in the evening.

 

I don't know if my symptoms get worse after taking it. I mean, I get up start to worry a bit, get agitated by something before or after taking my meds. It's all happening so fast.

 

When I wake up I shower for 5 minutes, make breakfast for my son, make coffee, drink something and after about 30 minutes I drive to work.

Somewhere in that 45 minute timeframe (waking up - drive to work) I pop in a 10 mg pill...

 

Sometimes I don't have symptoms at all, sometimes I crawl out of my skin if my dog barks only once. 

 

This has something to do with thoughts. If I control my thoughts everything is fine. If I start thinking about it things go wrong. You know, sometimes I think hey, shouldn't I be anxious or agitated and it Starts To Go Wrong. 

 

These thoughts build up and before you know it I have a very tight chest and 100 beats per minute. 

 

One day everything is ok the next day it's awful. I recognise these feelings before I took any meds.

After I quit drinking alcohol 4.5  years ago things were never really the same.

 

I Started antidepressants again to counteract the misery of not drinking and WD from that.

 

I should have given it more time before  Jumping Into the antidepressants carousel again.

 

Alto, do you mean my diary or do you mean my signature here on the website?

 

Btw, sometimes I take my meds at 7 sometimes at 9 in the morning (weekends). In the evening this might also be the case.

 

Thanks!! 

 

Have a nice day!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

Link to comment

Hi folks,

 

Today was horrible...woke up in Peace.

My wife and I started a discussion about Christmas presents she picked. I found them rather expensive and told her that. She felt attacked like nothing before and she started adding things to the discussion.... I am always bitching about money....I never buy these presents because I'm too lazy for that....I got cheap presents when I was a kid and that made me who I am right now...etc..

 

She started her crying as usual and I got my anxiety through the roof as usual....

 

We split up for a few hours and spent the day not talking too much. Now I'm in great anxiety and stress like never before. I just felt I wanted to die. I really wished I was dead an hour ago.

 

I begged her for some understanding but she kept talking with loud voice and making me feel bad. I am manipulative and evil etc..

Just got a panick attack because the nervousness just keeps going... She goes to bed early off course and we will not be speaking as usual. This is all just too disrupting fory nerves right now.

 

She is pregnant off course and that doesn't help calming things rather.

 

 

Hope this night things will cool down.

 

Cheers 

 

 

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
On 11/10/2018 at 7:16 AM, jozeff said:

Hi Carmie,

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Well, the restlessness is a little bit better now. Its late in the evening here and thats the time when i'm almost always completely calm. Its unbelievable that I can feel so relaxed at night and so nervous and hopeless in the morning.

If I could figure out how this works I'd be saved for the rest of my life.

I am so agitated sometimes in the morning. Heart rate, irritable, nervous, chest pain etc.. All in the morning. The depressed feeling is highest around noon and almost absent in the evening as well.

I drink a lot of coffee and i'm thinking of giving that up maybe. 

 

Yes, doing nothing and lying in bed makes it all a lot worse. I decided to stay home from work a couple of weeks ago and it was by far the worst day in the last months.....

Just focusing on my trouble all day, awful!

 

How are you doing?

 

Hope you are great and I wish you all the best

cheers

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How are you doing? A lot of time when one wakes up in anxiety in the morning it’s due to cortisol, though I did read recently that someone else who is like that in the morning had their cortisol levels checked but they were fine, can’t remember who it was though. 

 

Im glad you do get some reprieve  n feel a little calmer in the evening.

 

I think you really need to give up the coffee, but don’t do it cold turkey as it will affect your withdrawals. Slowly cut down, you really don’t want to shock your body any more than it already is. Definitely  give up the coffee as it will be contributing to your anxiety n restlessness. Just taper off slowly.

 

You said you get really stressed if you’re not a work n are around home all the time. You need to get some distractions, things that you enjoy doing. You may not enjoy doing them at the moment because you may be anhedonic or in a bit of a panic but do them ANYWAY!

 

No matter how awful I feel I always distract myself with something. I could barely think this morning so I put on some YouTube concerts n did some crocheting. Both don’t take much brain power. I’m making blankets for friends n just doing the same stitch over n over again, I don’t need to look at it, I just do it automatically. 

 

Take care💚

 

 

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

Link to comment

Hi guys,

 

So last evening was the worst feeling ever...

 

My wife and I were in an argument all day long and she kept sort of ignoring me which made things worse..

 

I had this kind of panick/anxiety like never before afterwards.

 

This was like just before a major crying spell but not be able to cry. This feeling in my forehead did not disappeare for half an hour and I wanted to slam my head against a wall. I took some oxazepam and that calmed me immensely. Didn't solve my depression but took the major major stress respond away.

 

What could this crying like sensation be??

Never had it this bad!!

 

Any thoughts??

 

 

Thanks

 

Jozeff

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

Link to comment

Hi guys,

 

So I started a citalopram taper in April 2018 and decreased 0.1 mg every day after being on it for 2 years.


After 85 days of tapering I crashed so I stayed on 16.5 mg for a couple of weeks. I felt so bad that I updosed to 18 mg to feel better.

 

I'm @ 18 mg citalopram now since August 14th 2018. Some good days, some bad ones. Symptoms are always different.

 

So, Gridley adviced me to hold a few months. I have been on hold for 3 months now. Is it normal that I still feel very unstable? My emotions are all over the place. The last days were hellish and I felt very sad and restless.

 

Sometimes I feel I have to get rid of the citalopram as soon as possible and that this stuff is causing all these problems in the first place. 

 

Of course I'm not gonna CT but I want to start my taper so badly.

 

Any thoughts (Gridley maybe😁).

 

thanks a lot guys!

 

jozeff

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Moderator

Hi, jozeff,

 

I know it's frustrating but you do need to stabilize before starting your taper.  Three months isn't very long for a hold after updosing, so, yes, it is normal to still feel unstable.  This link about stabilizing after updosing should be helpful.  

 

After Reinstating or Updosing, How Long To Stabilize?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current Valium dose as of Feb 22, 2022: 4.8mg 

March 22, 2022: hold at 4.8 and shift to Imipramine taper

Taper is 74% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of May 17: 10.5mg 

Taper is 86% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment

Thanks Gridley, appreciate it.

 

Weeks become months.....

 

I'll be a dad again in May and I want to be a good helpful person for my wife and son. Not a guy who has suicidal ideation sometimes and  having panick attacks and bad mood so often. You know what I mean...

 

I'll wait then

 

 

Thanks and have a nice day!

 

Jozef

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How exciting you’re going to be a dad in May! That will be a highlight for your next year. 

 

I see you’ve been really struggling with a lot of neuro-emotions lately. They’re definitely no fun whatsoever, are they? We feel like we are not even ourselves, that we have become strangers to ourselves. I feel like that a lot. 

 

You no doubt have read the thread on neuro-emotions that Healing started but I just thought I’d write the first post down here for you so you can look at it again when you’re feeling overwhelmed. I’ve had many, many times when I’ve felt totally overwhelmed.

 

Anyway, here goes: “For many reasons our emotions are on a half trigger, amplified and perservative. We probably don’t even know what’s going on physically yet, but it includes diminished prefrontal lobe executive functions, rebound amygdala, dysregulated HPA, overactive adrenals etc. 

 

The neuro emotions are: neuro-fear, neuro-anger, neuro-guilt, neuro-shame, neuro-hurt, neuro-regret, neuro-self-criticism, neuro-grudge-holding..... and many more. 

 

It is very, very confusing having these neuro-emotions, and try to remember that they are not what they appear to be. Emotions are compelling. Emotions during recovery from psych meds are compelling.

 

Sometimes the neuro-emotion is really totally artificial. Some of my neuro-fears have been so unlikely to come to pass as to bear no resemblance to reality or to my personal history.

 

But I think a lot of the time, part of what makes it so confusing is that there is a grain of reality to the neuro-emotion. For example, some situation might make you a bit angry under normal circumstances, but the neuro-emotion is huge. This is when it’s very difficult to 1)  catch it in the first place 2) convince ourselves, yes, this is really a neuro-emotion 3) contain the emotion, try not to act on it, or channel the energy into something safe and constructive - like exercise or journaling or building a birdhouse.🙂

 

Whenever you’re having an intense, disturbing feeling, try to remind yourself that, right now, - even if it does have something to do with reality - it is largely a neuro-emotion that you wouldn’t be feeling if you were fully healed. And you will be fully healed. It’s happening. Get ready! “

 

Hope youre copng okay today, sending hugs🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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IThanks Carmie!

 

This makes a lot of sense.

I've been reading it 3 times and try to extract info that I can use. 

 

The Problems I'm having now are familiar to me. I've been experiencing these for al my life. Not in this magnitude however. I've had a few reasonably good weeks but last 3 weeks were terrible.

Two times horrible fight with my wife which ramped up my nerves.

 

Just feel very of track. Sad, stiff shoulders, depressed etc. Not much anxiety to be honest and not much fatigue. These symptoms seem to alternate with each other.

Some days very sad, sometimes very tired but not both. 

 

Last week I had these suicidal thoughts every day and even dreamed about putting a bullet through my head. Few days ago I was standing next to the railway and watched some high speed trading go by....just to fantasize how it would be standing in front of it.

 

My psychologist calls this my expansion vessel. Very bad thoughts in your head so you can cope with reality. Just like killing your neighbor for making to much noise he said. You won't do it but the thought helps you cope.

 

Just want some peace in my head.

 

These dark days don't seem to help either. Was thinking about a light box but don't know if that might help.

 

Well, of to my psychologist now🤔🤔

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

Link to comment
On 11/15/2018 at 1:53 AM, Carmie said:

Some of my neuro-fears have been so unlikely to come to pass as to bear no resemblance to reality or to my personal history.

This describes it so exactly. I have also had whole swathes of language erased overnight. Words and concepts eradicated. I can't yet find a post on  theorising how  memory and ssri withdrawal interact.

@Jozeff you are so incredibly strong to be getting through this. I can barely meet my own needs, let alone others. Do you get time for yourself? Does it help to walk alone or take a bath or decompress in other ways? Sorry I haven't been able to write much. I've been struggling to write at all. I really appreciate your comments on my feed and willing you on every step. Really interesting  "expansion vessel concept". I have been doing that not whole life for comfort. These neuro-emotions are something else. 

Hope the psychologists is able to support a little. Will reply on my feed. 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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