stevenb: need advice on tapering Zyprexa and citalopram

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What help are you expecting from this site?

 

Alto previously requested daily symptom notes at the beginning of October.  You did not supply these.

 

Alto also stated:

 

On 10/4/2020 at 9:41 AM, Altostrata said:

 

You have a history of attempting to taper but failing. We would like you to succeed in minimizing your drugs.

 

...

 

Going on and off isn't good for your nervous system, slow and steady is better -- one drug at a time.

 

[stevenb]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  What help are you expecting from this site?

 

Alto previously requested daily symptom notes at the beginning of October.  You did not supply these.

 

Alto also stated:

 

I'm just looking for advice/support on the withdrawal process like any other member I guess.. Sorry I don't have any notes prepared. I've also heard, on this site too, that tapering multiple medications at once is possible

[ChessieCat]

22 minutes ago, stevenb said:

I've also heard, on this site too, that tapering multiple medications at once is possible

 

Yes, some members are able to do it, but the ones that do it successfully are very careful and listen to their symptoms and don't go on and off their drug multiple times and go up and down in their doses like a yo yo.

 

Altostrata is SA's founder and has a lot of drug knowledge.  Here is the link to a recent interview with her:  INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder  

 

I suggest that you listen to it.

 

Alto previously stated:

  

On 10/1/2020 at 9:15 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Tapering 2 drugs at once confuses the process. You may have more success if you tapered one at a time.

 

 

  From this topic About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

On 10/9/2012 at 10:17 AM, Altostrata said:

Don't suddenly go off a psychiatric drug assuming that reinstatement is a safety net

 

This is one of the reasons we advocate gradual tapering to minimize withdrawal symptoms. Once the nervous system is destabilized by withdrawal, all bets are off. Humpty Dumpty the egg has fallen off the wall.

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

13 minutes ago, stevenb said:

I'm just looking for advice/support on the withdrawal process

 

That's what you had been receiving but then you didn't post for 1 month and whilst gone you cold turkeyed both drugs after being advised not to and then going back on the full dose of both drugs.

 

SA is a very busy site.  We offer suggestions to members and it is the member's choice whether they follow those suggestions.  The moderators, who do not get paid, prefer to use their limited time wisely helping the members who wish to follow SA's suggestions.

 

11 minutes ago, stevenb said:

Sorry I don't have any notes prepared.

 

Even if you did have notes from before, they would not be relevant to now.

[morgana]

hi stevenb, i have been on those two drugs you are on for the past 24 years, 10mg zyprexa and 40ml Ciprimil....in october 2017 i cold turkeyerd off my ciprimil which i shouldnt of done, i ended up in hospital due to pancrititis a few months later...if i was you i would stablise first by eating 3 well balanced meals aday, exercise for aleast 1 hour a day, and maybe meditate for aleast a month, than slowly taper 10% off your anti-depressant....do not touch your zyprexa dosage until you have successfully tappered completley off your anti-depressant...i chose the ciprimil first because i new zyprexa would be the hardest to do...and it is!....also when you are stressed your hallucinations become worse, so you need to learn how to relax, and reduce your stress levels...sitting in your room on the computer and , being entertained by your huallicinations is only making you feel worse...get outside and enjoy nature, do something physical...and of course listen to the moderators...

[stevenb]

2 hours ago, morgana said:

hi stevenb, i have been on those two drugs you are on for the past 24 years, 10mg zyprexa and 40ml Ciprimil....in october 2017 i cold turkeyerd off my ciprimil which i shouldnt of done, i ended up in hospital due to pancrititis a few months later...if i was you i would stablise first by eating 3 well balanced meals aday, exercise for aleast 1 hour a day, and maybe meditate for aleast a month, than slowly taper 10% off your anti-depressant....do not touch your zyprexa dosage until you have successfully tappered completley off your anti-depressant...i chose the ciprimil first because i new zyprexa would be the hardest to do...and it is!....also when you are stressed your hallucinations become worse, so you need to learn how to relax, and reduce your stress levels...sitting in your room on the computer and , being entertained by your huallicinations is only making you feel worse...get outside and enjoy nature, do something physical...and of course listen to the moderators...

Thanks morgana, I was thinking of doing citalopram first as well if I do one at a time

[Altostrata]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:38 PM, stevenb said:

Stevenb here.

 

I wasn't able to go cold turkey. I also feel like I hit a wall tapering after 3 months. May try and take it slower if I can or maybe even a break. Getting a lot of withdrawal symptoms, pretty much anything you can think of

 

We know you can't go cold turkey off the drugs. What we have been trying to do is gather information so we can counsel you about the best way you can taper without making a disaster for yourself.

 

Generally, we do not recommend changing more than 1 drug at a time. We have a few veteran taperers who manage, with great self-discipline, to taper more than one drug at a time. You do not have the experience or the discipline to do this. Your method, which is to quit whenever you feel like it, has failed repeatedly.

 

Because of these past failures, which each time bruised your nervous system, it's unlikely abrupt decreases will ever work for you. Your nervous system is already sensitized by the drug mishaps.

 

Please let us know now if you are interested in following a more deliberate method. If you're not, it's not worth the staff spending their time explaining basic principles to you.

[stevenb]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

We know you can't go cold turkey off the drugs. What we have been trying to do is gather information so we can counsel you about the best way you can taper without making a disaster for yourself.

 

Generally, we do not recommend changing more than 1 drug at a time. We have a few veteran taperers who manage, with great self-discipline, to taper more than one drug at a time. You do not have the experience or the discipline to do this. Your method, which is to quit whenever you feel like it, has failed repeatedly.

 

Because of these past failures, which each time bruised your nervous system, it's unlikely abrupt decreases will ever work for you. Your nervous system is already sensitized by the drug mishaps.

 

Please let us know now if you are interested in following a more deliberate method. If you're not, it's not worth the staff spending their time explaining basic principles to you.

Crazy people do crazy things. Sorry, I do not have to knowledge or tools to do a 10% reduction, i'm lucky to even have pill cutters to be honest. If it's as hard to get off of them as the moderators make it sound then that's really messed up. All I know is I never wanted to be on meds in the first place now i'm stuck on them and it sucks, I just figured that any reduction is better then no reduction and in time it would sort itself out but I guess i'm wrong.

 

Won't waste anymore of your time goodbye and good luck

[ChessieCat]

 

51 minutes ago, stevenb said:

I just figured that any reduction is better then no reduction

 

But you were not making "any reduction" you were going cold turkey.

 

AND you were stopping 2 drugs as the same time.

 

52 minutes ago, stevenb said:

Sorry, I do not have to knowledge

 

That is why members join SA.

 

53 minutes ago, stevenb said:

I do not have to knowledge or tools to do a 10% reduction, i'm lucky to even have pill cutters to be honest.

 

It is possible to make a liquid from citalopram tablets:

 

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

53 minutes ago, stevenb said:

If it's as hard to get off of them as the moderators make it sound then that's really messed up.

 

It might be hard, but it is possible.  Following SA's tapering protocol I have successfully managed to get off my 100mg Pristiq and am now down to 0.5mg.

 

On 8/6/2011 at 6:43 AM, Altostrata said:

 

The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs. While it is not a guarantee you will have trouble-free withdrawal, we believe this conservative tapering method will cause harm to the fewest number of people.

 

 

[morgana]

hi stevenb, please dont give up on this site as you will not find support to withdrawal from a doctor...this is really all you have.....and when i first came on here, yes i didnt understand the tapering process either....and am still learning....take it slow....read as much on tapering as you can.  I watched youtube channels which people show you how they did it....they were getting off benzo's but still the same method as what you would use getting off psch meds....if i were you sit on what your doctor has prescribed for you until you understand the tapering method, do not change it until you understand it...i also only have a pill cutter.  I did not want to be on these medications either, i was forced on them also, i may never get off them, but i will try no matter how long it takes me....you need to be stable before you can taper anyway, so read and watch video's on it and ask questions, follow directions by the moderators, write in a diary everyday, make a list of all your symptoms you experience and rate them from very bad to very good everyday, and over time you will see an improvement and when you do that will help you decide yes that you feel ready to start tapering...also i have a tendency not to look after myself properly, so its also important you can do this before you start to taper...i will include my table that i made up for myself...these are my main issues i have...i will listen

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, morgana said:

write in a diary everyday, make a list of all your symptoms you experience and rate them from very bad to very good everyday

 

Here are computer and printable symptoms lists and also blank versions of them with a rating system.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

[Hopela]

16 hours ago, stevenb said:

Crazy people do crazy things... If it's as hard to get off of them as the moderators make it sound then that's really messed up

You're not crazy, compared to people in general at least, for being resistant to accepting a somewhat horrible reality like that of needing to taper for so long. But at least it's good that there is such a reality that getting off the chemicals, or at least significantly lower them, is possible at all.

 

It was a somewhat strong headed move to completely ignore recommendations but perhaps you can use that strength to learn about and adhere to the tapering pace and practices that are succesful.

 

17 hours ago, stevenb said:

I do not have to knowledge or tools to do a 10% reduction, i'm lucky to even have pill cutters

If you want to try an easy start for zyprexa you could ask your doctor for 10 mg + 2.5 mg prescriptions. Allows you to drop 16.7% to 12.5 mg without tools (or 13.75mg first with 10mg + 1.5 x 2.5mg) and then to 11.25mg with 10 mg + half a 2.5 mg, then just 10mg. It's an easy way to get started with just a pill cutter.

 

 

[Altostrata]

19 hours ago, stevenb said:

If it's as hard to get off of them as the moderators make it sound then that's really messed up.

 

It  is messed up. If it was easy to go off these drugs, this site wouldn't exist and the volunteers here would be doing something that's more fun and relaxing.

 

It's not our fault that it's hard to go off psychiatric drugs. But you are welcome to do it your way. Good luck.

[stevenb]

Brief history, started zyprexa 15mg and citalopram 20mg maybe october? Of 2017

 

Ive been tapering for about 5 months but i began demonizing medicine and kept wanting to take less less less. At half a dose I decided to skip tapering all together and try 0. So far ive been able to go longer without the more I tried and now I think im at a point where I could potentially stop them I think.

 

For 3 days ive been falling asleep at 6am for 5-7 hours and havent experienced extreme insomnia 'yet' but ive been reading some svary stuff about zyprexa ct insomnia.

 

Logically I should reinstate. But i'm really bad at making important decisions and also very stubborn. So I have a few questions.

 

1. Has anyone any experience on zyprexa/citalopram cold turkey

 

2. How long of a window do I have to reinstate? Cause I want to keep trying and see if my sleep gets worse or not

 

3. If ive been on since late 2017, tapering 5 months any timeframe ideas of how long my withdrawals might last? My guess is anywhere from 6 months - 2 more years wich is really scary to think about

Edited January 5, 2021 by stevenb

[stevenb]

I read a thread called "About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms". Good information! I was scared to reinstate because everytime I do I feel really bad but I tried a small amount (~3.2mg zyprexa) and felt immediate relief. I'm still worried about navigating my way through the process but i'll try and hold while I figure it out.

[Shep]

Hello, Wires.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

It sounds like you've already done some reading on the site, but just to make sure you have the relevant information, I'll place some links here on your thread.

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery video (4 minutes)

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please give us more details about your taper rate in the past few months (dates for each dose reduction, if you have them). Please do this for both the zyprexa and the citalopram. 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

As you provide more information, we can better guide you in reinstating and provide other information, as well. 

 

 

[stevenb]

After 3 days at the increased dose of 7.5mg zyprexa and 10mg celexa I had to increase to a full doses. On the morning of taking the full dose celexa I woke up shaking. Thought it was just cause it was cold but it kept on and got worse. By the time I got up and went for a full dose of celexa I was shaking so bad I couldn't open the bottle of medication and had to have a family member open it and hand me the pill. I am 99% sure this is due to withdrawal and it subsided about a minute or two after taking the pill.

 

So yeah i've never been able to hold at a specific dose my whole entire taper, if I do stuff like that happens. I'm now trying to stabalize on a full dose and think where to go from there.

 

So for example, when I started my taper I would take 11.25mg zyprexa, 15mg citalopram for 4-6 days then I'd have to increase to a full dose for a few days maybe a week until the withdrawal symptoms lessened.

[Shep]

Quote

 

October? 2017: 15mg zyprexa, 20mg celexa

August 1st 2020: 11.25mg zyprexa, 15mg celxa

October 1st 2020: 7.5mg zyprexa, 10mg celexa

January 3rd 2021: Attempted cold turkey a few times and failed, reinstated full dose

 

January 2020: Trazodone 50mg

October 29th 2020: 37.5mg Trazodone

December 1st 2020: 25mg Trazodone

January 1st 2021: 0mg Trazodone

 

 

@wires your signature is really confusing because you've got two drugs listed inside a timeline and then a third one listed separately. 

 

I'm going to try to merge your history. Please let me know if this is correct:

 

     October? 2017: 15mg zyprexa, 20mg celexa

     January 2020: Trazodone 50mg, 15mg zyprexa, 20mg celexa

     August 1st 2020: Trazodone 50mg, 11.25mg zyprexa, 15mg celxa

     October 1st 2020: Trazodone 50mg, 7.5mg zyprexa, 10mg celexa

     October 29th 2020: 37.5mg Trazodone, 7.5mg zyprexa, 10mg celexa

     December 1st 2020: 25mg Trazodone, 7.5mg zyprexa, 10mg celexa

     January 1st 2021: 0mg Trazodone, 7.5mg zyprexa, 10mg celexa

     January 3rd 2021: Attempted cold turkey a few times and failed, reinstated full dose

 

10 hours ago, wires said:

After 3 days at the increased dose of 7.5mg zyprexa and 10mg celexa I had to increase to a full doses. On the morning of taking the full dose celexa I woke up shaking. Thought it was just cause it was cold but it kept on and got worse. By the time I got up and went for a full dose of celexa I was shaking so bad I couldn't open the bottle of medication and had to have a family member open it and hand me the pill. I am 99% sure this is due to withdrawal and it subsided about a minute or two after taking the pill.

 

That likely is a placebo effect. It would take more than a minute or two for the drug to be absorbed. 

 

Your symptoms that started after an increase sound more like a possible adverse reaction. Please note the interactions for your three drugs. I don't know if you were on Trazodone at this time, but Zyprexa and Celexa also have an adverse interaction:

 

Drug interactions - Zyprexa, Celexa, and Trazodone

 

10 hours ago, wires said:

So for example, when I started my taper I would take 11.25mg zyprexa, 15mg citalopram for 4-6 days then I'd have to increase to a full dose for a few days maybe a week until the withdrawal symptoms lessened.

 

There may have been a decrease in withdrawal symptoms by increasing the Zyprexa and the Celexa or it may have been that at this same time, you were reducing the trazodone and thus reducing an adverse reaction. 

 

What we need:

 

1. Please confirm what I highlighted in blue is accurate as far as your drug history goes.
2. Please post what drugs you are currently taking. Include the time(s) of day and the dose.
3. Please post any supplements or any other drugs you are currently taking. 

[stevenb]

Yes the history is correct. I take no supplements but I do take over the counter sleep aids don't know if that counts. Can't sleep without them. And even with them I never feel like i'm getting good sleep but I won't go into that.

 

My last dose of trazodone (12.5mg) was December 29th 2020. Currently for about two days i'm on 3.75mg zyprexa and 5mg celexa.. Thought i was ready for that low of a dose but now i'm having insomnia. I wanna updose but i don't know if it's too risky?

 

[stevenb]

Forgot to add the celexa is in the morning 9-11am and zyprexa is 8pm

 

Also very strange day for me I really made a mistake either going off cold turkey like i did or adjusting doses too much 😕

[Shep]

18 hours ago, wires said:

Yes the history is correct.

 

Thanks, wires, I've updated your signature. 

 

18 hours ago, wires said:

I take no supplements but I do take over the counter sleep aids don't know if that counts. Can't sleep without them. And even with them I never feel like i'm getting good sleep but I won't go into that.

 

Yes, these are important to discuss. Please write the name and dose of the sleep aids, along with when you started taking them. 

 

18 hours ago, wires said:

My last dose of trazodone (12.5mg) was December 29th 2020. Currently for about two days i'm on 3.75mg zyprexa and 5mg celexa.. Thought i was ready for that low of a dose but now i'm having insomnia. I wanna updose but i don't know if it's too risky?

 

Please write more about your history of sleep aids. Then we can discuss an updose of the Zyprexa or a possible reinstatement of the trazodone. 

 

Which drug helps you more with insomnia - trazodone or zyprexa? 

[stevenb]

Thanks for the replies Shep

 

I will try to get around to adding the sleep aids soon as I can, the current one i'm taking is called Extra Strength Pain relief PM not sure the dosage, just standard two capsules it says to take.

 

Also I had decided to hold at the current dose of 3.75mg Zyprexa and 5mg celexa because I was feeling fine aside from insomnia wich went away that night. Think I only had it due to an ineffective sleep aid (had problems with in the past as well).

 

But in response to your question zyprexa doesn't help me sleep at all and trazodone didn't really either towards the end I just kept taking it cause I felt I had to before I discovered what tapering was.

[stevenb]

The insomnia persists... I think I remember reading that insomnia is common when you get to the lower end of the dose. Confirm/deny anyone?

[stevenb]

I usually start to think, when I have insomnia at least, that I may be tapering too fast. But of course that part of my brain gets ignored and I just give in to the idea that I can keep tapering lower. Sigh.

[Shep]

On 1/20/2021 at 7:30 AM, wires said:

The insomnia persists... I think I remember reading that insomnia is common when you get to the lower end of the dose. Confirm/deny anyone?

 

Insomnia is common during many stages of withdrawal. It's a sign of a destabilized nervous system. But yes, it's common, especially while tapering the lower end of the dose. 

 

The lower doses of these drugs can contain more of the active ingredient in them than a lot of people (including doctors) realize. Please see:

 

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

23 hours ago, wires said:

I usually start to think, when I have insomnia at least, that I may be tapering too fast. But of course that part of my brain gets ignored and I just give in to the idea that I can keep tapering lower. Sigh.

 

I would hold until you're more stable. 

 

If you wish to have more targeted advice, please start a drug and symptoms journal. Please also include any supplements and over-the-counter drugs you are using, along with how much sleep you're getting. 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

 

 

 

[stevenb]

Was having a really hard time because my sleep, not due to withdrawal but what I think might be sleep apnea. My doctor referred me to a sleep study but i've been playing hell trying to get ahold of them and set something up.. still trying hopefully i'll have some luck with that soon. But on the medication I felt I was getting worse everyday and started being really panic stricken and almost called an ambulance wich is the last thing I want to do. So I felt the only choice I had was to stop taking the medication.... i'm a few days in without any and I don't feel the panic I felt on them but I do worry a lot because I know i'm not ready to come off but I really feel I have no choice right now.

[stevenb]

So I had a change of heart... I was reading through some notes I made and realised the worst day I had was also on a day I took a lower dose for some reason I thought it was a higher one.. I reinstated right after that. I do still think I have sleep apnea but I just can't do cold turkey I thought it would be easier but it's way too hard. I'm gonna try my hardest to take a break from tapering and see if that doesn't improve my situation.

 

I'm trying to set a goal of a certain amount of weeks at a full dose to try and stabalize before I taper anymore. I don't know how many yet though. I'm thinking 2 weeks minimum? Any thoughts on that would be appriciated. 

[Shep]

Wires, you really need to stop playing around with these drugs. You're setting yourself up for kindling, meaning you're going to damage your nervous system by bouncing around on these drugs. Once you damage or traumatize your nervous system, you'll have a lot more problems getting off these drugs.

 

It's important to take the same dose at the same time of the day everyday. Your nervous system is fighting for stability, but you're making it more and more difficult each time you make an abrupt change. 

 

For information on sleep apnea, please see:

 

Sleep apnea and CPAP

 

Psych meds and sleep apnea

 

 

3 hours ago, wires said:

I'm trying to set a goal of a certain amount of weeks at a full dose to try and stabalize before I taper anymore. I don't know how many yet though. I'm thinking 2 weeks minimum? Any thoughts on that would be appriciated.

 

What do you mean "at a full dose"? 

 

 

[stevenb]

On 1/23/2021 at 2:59 AM, Shep said:

 

 

What do you mean "at a full dose"? 

 

 

15mg Zyprexa and 20mg Celexa. Feeling better as each day goes by. Gonna hold at a full dose for hopefully at least 2 weeks, feels nice to take a break from tapering since theres only so much healing that can occur in that short of a time.

[Shep]

12 hours ago, wires said:

15mg Zyprexa and 20mg Celexa. Feeling better as each day goes by. Gonna hold at a full dose for hopefully at least 2 weeks, feels nice to take a break from tapering since theres only so much healing that can occur in that short of a time.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better, but I would hold a lot longer than two weeks. You already went too fast and had to reinstate to a full dose on January 3rd and then went too fast again. 

 

From an earlier post: 

 

On 1/23/2021 at 5:59 AM, Shep said:

Wires, you really need to stop playing around with these drugs. You're setting yourself up for kindling, meaning you're going to damage your nervous system by bouncing around on these drugs. Once you damage or traumatize your nervous system, you'll have a lot more problems getting off these drugs.

 

It's important to take the same dose at the same time of the day everyday. Your nervous system is fighting for stability, but you're making it more and more difficult each time you make an abrupt change. 

 

[stevenb]

Having insomnia. Every other night I go without sleep or maybe fall asleep for 2-4 hours. I've thought about it and the only thing I can think of it being is Trazodone withdrawal. Really discouraging because if it was then getting off these meds is harder/takes longer then I thought.   But I might try taking trazodone tomorrow to see if it helps with the insomnia.

[Shep]

2 hours ago, wires said:

Having insomnia. Every other night I go without sleep or maybe fall asleep for 2-4 hours. I've thought about it and the only thing I can think of it being is Trazodone withdrawal

 

Or it could be because you increased your other drugs to a too high dose. 

 

Please see this post on resinstatement because it explains how our nervous system becomes hypersensitive due to abrupt changes and when you reinstate or do an updose, it should be a very small amount in case the nervous system is now hyper-reacting. That may be what's happening to you now. 

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

 

[stevenb]

Ah that's even scarier.. So should I just ride it out and not reinstate any trazodone you think?

[stevenb]

I remember earlier when I started to taper I was cutting 1/4 of the pill out and taking the other three quarters. I would always have to go back to taking a full dose though.. I remember one time I tried cutting the tiniest little piece out of the pill so that I could still take less but not a full dose and I couldn't do it. My whole taper I've never been able to hold at a specific dose and I don't know why. 

 

I did the same thing with trazodone, I would have to take full doses every now and then to relieve the withdrawals.

[Shep]

Sorry, wires, but I'm not sure what to advise at this point. It would help if you could do a few days of a drug and symptoms journal. This will allow us to see your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs. 

 

Please also include the number of hours you sleep and any supplements you are taking. Here are the instructions: 

 

 

  

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

 

 

[stevenb]

Took 50mg trazodone last night and slept decent. But i'm overwhelmed with guilt and a sense that because I took a whole 50mg I just made myself more dependent on it and i'm one step closer to never getting off it even though my last dose was a month ago. These pills are truly evil.