phenylbot: 6 months in Nardil / phenelzine withdrawal

[phenylbot]

Well.. guess I'm done with this site. 

[phenylbot]

Please remove all contents of my profile. Thank-you. Thanks for trying; Hope people benefit from this site. It's not a good fit for me.

[DataGuy]

@phenylbot, unfortunately, I have been working the past few days and am working again today, am dealing with my own withdrawal problems, chores, errands, and other responsibilities. Will try to get back to you later, but yes, if you want immediate responses from volunteers, this site might not be for you. 

[DataGuy]

FWIW I don't think you can diagnose much of anything in withdrawal. Many physical and mental issues will just go away after withdrawal symptoms remit, but until then, any diagnosis might simply be confounded by them. TBH I don't even know what avoidant personality disorder is. It sounds kind of made up, like many disorders in the DSM (see for example: intermittent explosive disorder, somatoform or somatic symptom disorder, and many others that make little sense). I'm sorry you're suffering so much. Unfortunately it's very typical for cases of rapid withdrawal or cold-stopping meds. 

[DataGuy]

Yes, it can be difficult socially in withdrawal, with both the physical and psychological discomfort. Really all you can do is your best and people will give you the benefit of the doubt. If people ask what's wrong you can always just say you have a neurological condition (pretty much true) that results in significant discomfort. At some point you have to tell yourself that people who who judge you for it don't really matter. The important thing is that things will slowly get easier. The withdrawal itself can last a long time, but it does become much more tolerable. Just remember symptoms will wax and wane. Why this happens, I'm not sure. It seems to be the same thing with Long COVID. People describe days where they feel almost normal and then go right back to having plenty of distressing symptoms. I suspect it has something to do with the nervous system that we don't have much of a clue about yet.

 

Hopefully with pandemic restrictions being lifted things will get a little easier socially. At least with more opportunity it gives you a chance to try to see people when you feel like it. The combination of pandemic restrictions and feeling bad most of the time was not a good one for people in withdrawal, as it can prevent people from seeing anyone even when they feel a bit better. You will start to get windows where symptoms are a bit easier to deal with, and it's just important to recognize and remember them. They are signs of healing. 

[phenylbot]

I appreciate your feedback Data guy. I apologize for my loss of faith yesterday. You are doing a great service to humanity and I'm sorry that you still struggle with recovery. 

 I don't expect immediate responses to my replies. In fact I feel lucky to get any. 

 The avoidance thing is something that started while on a.d.'s. Became very complacent to some of life's basic needs. Neuro emotion on top of my natural emotions returning has really put a cryptic slant on recovery. 

   I experienced a lot of loss which was never processed on meds. heart seems to beat twice as hard and waves of guilt and despair wash over me which can pull me out of a relatively calm state of mind. These waves keep me awake and happen every day and night. It's the worst part of this process.  I'm learning to accept these uncomfortable feelings as a sign of my brain recovering.

Thanks for all you do!

[DataGuy]

Yes, no doubt, it's tough to deal with life in withdrawal. Everything becomes more stressful and difficult, on top of being uncomfortable almost all the time. But you will both get better and get better at dealing with things in withdrawal as you learn. Just keep an eye on yourself and make sure you are not slipping backwards. Sometimes this can just be a wave. As mentioned, they can last quite awhile. But it can also be slipping into bad habits we pick up in withdrawal. Unfortunately we can adopt some pretty maladaptive coping mechanisms in order to just get through days and weeks of symptoms. Very easy to feel angry in withdrawal, but feeling anger often can become a habit more than any sort of emotional catharsis. Actually that is what some research says: expressing anger frequently can simply reinforce being angry. Obviously it can be an adaptive response too, in certain situations, but it's probably not something you want to feel all the time. 

 

Hope you are feeling better soon, @phenylbot. Might be useful to list your symptoms on here periodically and describe them, so you can have some marker to look back on if you feel you haven't made progress. Often people feel they have not made progress when they have, they just forget how bad things were before. 

[phenylbot]

It seems to me that I'm much worse now that I see the mess that I made of my life while medicated. The feelings of regret and loss are hugely amplified and I can't tell if these emotions are exaggerated  by withdrawal or just the emotions that were blunted for so many years. I'm willing to bet that this is what is meant by neuro-emotions. The real kicker is that the personality I developed on meds is in no way the person I am today. I tended to make decisions without thinking of the consequences. 

I have chronic paresthesia in my arms and gut, dizzy feeling that won't let up, Dark thoughts when I lay down for a rest. Severe constipation and probably leaky gut which is another grey topic to me. Everything I am experiencing is mysterious to my doc. I am encouraged  by doc and my family to go back on a different med which I have refused. It seems ludicrous to start another drug when each time I have tried, it results in a setback. Really feeling stuck.

  I try to walk when I can but feel little relief from this. How does a person survive for years like this without support from the broader community?

  No windows after 14 months cold turkey.

[phenylbot]

Forgot to mention frequent urination. I am constantly having to pee. This seems to be at it's worst with cortisol spikes.  The depression is completely exhausting and intrusive thoughts feed it. This starts when I wake in the morning and lasts till later in the evening. Derealization is not a wonder as it's difficult to accept that I've fallen this far into the abyss. All due to a drug shortage. 

[phenylbot]

All of these feelings are taking a huge toll on my self esteem....Had the pfizer vaccine last week and wondering if kindling is a possible reason for this despair.

 

[DataGuy]

Make sure you keep yourself hydrated, @phenylbot. You can even supplement with some salt if you feel you are low on electrolytes. I had this a bit in early withdrawal and seemed to be constantly thirsty. I definitely know others who have had to go very frequently. This symptom improves with time. 

 

I don't know that you can necessarily count your first year as healing time. Seems you tried to reinstate multiple times and tried to use other meds as well. We don't really know what effect those had on your system or on the healing process, but I don't really think it helps. I think it is best to count forward at the point where you have been abstinent from all drugs. No need for any unwarranted discouragement. 

 

Unfortunate that doctor and family don't understand the situation. It's foolish to suggest other drugs when you cannot even tolerate the drug you tolerated for years before! That should be the first clue that something has fundamentally changed with your system. This is not "depression" or "anxiety". That much should be obvious. Hard to get it through their skulls sometimes. Doctors really are clueless in this situation. If you want a paper to take to your doctor about this, this one by Cosci and Fava has something about refractoriness to treatment: https://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/depression/understanding-and-managing-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndromes/

 

"According to the oppositional model of tolerance, continued drug treatment may recruit processes that oppose the initial acute effects of a drug. This may explain loss of treatment efficacy and the fact that certain side effects (such as increased appetite and weight gain) tend to ensue only after a certain time.25 These processes may also propel the illness to a more malignant and treatment-unresponsive course, as with bipolar manifestations or paradoxical reactions. When drug treatment ends, oppositional processes may encounter no more resistance, resulting in the appearance of new withdrawal symptoms, rebound symptomatology, persistent post-withdrawal disorders, hypomania, or resistance to treatment if it is reinstituted (Figure 1). In the long run, antidepressants may increase chronicity, vulnerability to depressive disorders, and comorbidity.24 "

 

"Withdrawal and post-withdrawal symptoms may be associated with modifications of the illness course, such as onset of hypomania, loss of clinical effects, and refractoriness to treatment.17 When hypomania occurs, it may be self-limiting, may abate with reinstitution of antidepressant drugs, or may require specific antimanic treatment.20 Loss of clinical effects (also referred to as tachyphylaxis) involves the return of depressive symptoms during maintenance antidepressant treatment that only temporarily respond to dose increase.21 Refractoriness to treatment, that is, the lack of response to a previously effective pharmacologic treatment when it is started again after a drug-free period, is another phenomenon that may occur21; interestingly, it took place in the clinical case presented by Jha and associates.12" 

 

---------------

 

Your symptoms sound very punishing. I'd like to hear how you're coping with them. What are you doing for yourself? I'm sorry the walking doesn't bring you much relief. I hope you can keep it up though. It's important to keep doing things that improve your general health. That is what you should be concerned about now. 

[DataGuy]

8 minutes ago, phenylbot said:

All of these feelings are taking a huge toll on my self esteem....Had the pfizer vaccine last week and wondering if kindling is a possible reason for this despair.

 

 

Yes, people have had waves induced by the vaccines. Usually they are transient and only last a few days or weeks. There is a thread on this subject with quite a few posts: 

 

[phenylbot]

Thanks Data guy, that's a lot of information.

[phenylbot]

Well, I'm still here and still in this "transient" state from the pfizer vaccine. This fight or flight state has been with me from the beginning. It's as though electric current is coursing through my body at all times. My mind is dredging up thoughts and memories that make me believe I've done everything wrong in the past. This fuels the fight or flight response. Also the news re: inflation and home prices, lack of support from dr. family and friends. All of these things loop through my head and make me feel vulnerable as goldfish in a piranha tank. This depresses me and is really at the heart of this distress. 

  Had a long walk today with my daughter. Feel so badly that I can't be a better father to her these days. Still no windows. Working 3 days a week now. The heat really makes things worse. 

I know I sound like a whiner but my subjective take on things comes from an objective reality. Thirty years of brain altering drugs is not a recipe for a good life. Maybe some day things will improve. Not holding my breath.

[DataGuy]

It's ok to vent, it's not an easy life.

 

Will get back to you a bit later @phenylbot, pretty exhausted myself right now. Hope you are sleeping a bit better than I am. 

[phenylbot]

Thanks Data Guy, Hope you're finding some peace. 

   I get apx. 4 solid hours and the rest is broken sleep. 

   The negative thought loops are tough to break. I'm trying to ride them out and let them pass. 

     I've found that explaining this process to family and friends is counter- productive for me. It's a lonesome journey. 

     I'm thinking these thought loops are my emotions coming on board again in a scrambled form.  Trying to decide whether things are getting slightly better or not. This depressive feeling is more pronounced now but other things such as derealization seem to be waning.  Learning to live with this feeling of grief or dread and see it for the miserable symptom that it is. Some weird sensation in my brain that I can't begin to explain. It's as though I can feel the blood flowing through my brain but the blood has effervescence. Also my eyes feel effected in an unexplainable way. Like they're growing a skin over the eyeball. Strange stuff for sure. I'll take it in stride as I need to lighten up. Thanks for reading.  Hoping things are improving for you.

[DataGuy]

Yes, it's pretty difficult to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it directly or indirectly (close family or friends). It also lasts quite a long time and there is only so much explaining you can do. That is why online communities are important. Would be good to have in-person meetings too, but that is not always possible for many people. 

 

I'm glad you are trying to make meaning of your symptoms in a positive way. I find it helps to think that things could always be worse. And they could. Related book: "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankl, documenting how he survived in a concentration camp. It can definitely be worse. 

 

I am trying to be more disciplined about fasting. I know what I have to do to feel better, but it is the actual getting it done that seems to be the bottleneck. Life and apathy tend to get in the way, but eventually you just get fed up with feeling bad and that gets you moving.  

[phenylbot]

Data Guy, Would be interested to know how fasting is related to overcoming withdrawal.  

 

I've had several years of this apathy. It didn't bother me... much, till withdraw set in. Lost years of my life due to this complacency and now wanting to find interest and meaning in life. Yes I'm sure things could be worse but that's another endless rabbit hole . For me things feel as bad as they can get as am feeling removed from the frenzied challenge to accomplish something more in life. If we could only find joy in a productive activity, the possibilities would be endless.  I enjoy reading and must have read 30 Dean Koontz books while medicated. Wonder if the horror in these books is being re-ignited in withdrawal. Can't stomach Koontzs' books these days. I've done more reading on SA than anything lately. Do you think reading is therapeutic for this condition? I believe reading R. Whittaker's anatomy of an epidemic would be triggering. I happen to believe everything he says about the damage psych meds do. Would like to develop the motivation to find a faster road to recovery be it diet exercise or what ever else. It's so hard to be around happy people when feeling stuck in this hole. Everything is a trigger.

[DataGuy]

I definitely think reading is therapeutic. It's a great way to distract your mind from your symptoms and your situation. It can be hard to sit down and concentrate, but once you do it, it can be very relaxing. I agree it is best to choose non-triggering books, but I wouldn't be afraid of reading about certain subjects or authors. You don't want to fall into the trap of avoiding certain material because you think it will provoke anxiety, dysphoria etc., especially if you enjoyed them in the past. Avoiding things like that tends to make them more threatening and more anxiety-provoking than they actually are. You could always try some exposure therapy if you feel something like that will trigger you.

 

As for fasting, for me it seems to help with symptoms. Can't be sure it will work for the average person in withdrawal, because there aren't any randomized trials, but in general it should be fairly safe to try (unless you are prone to hypoglycemia). I usually try to fast for at least 16 hours. The most I have done is only a bit more than 20, but I have had problems with food, so my experience is probably not too representative. I have gotten away from fasting during the pandemic (and, probably not coincidentally, have been doing worse), unfortunately, so have only fasted here and there for a day or two when I could manage it. Trying to get back on track in that respect. I've booked a couple days off work so that I can avoid having to eat just to be functional there. 

 

I'm not sure how or why it works, but for me I've had a ton of stomach problems in withdrawal, and one of the only times I get relief is after 16 or so hours of fasting. I think my stomach and digestive system are hyper-responsive to anything I put in there (lots of stomach acid, gas, bloating), so it is nice to give it a rest for a few hours. Plus I think our nervous systems are so hyperactive that we tend to feel every little thing bouncing around down there. After 16 hours of fasting or so is one of the only times I feel genuinely "well". It definitely seems to clear my mind. 

 

Here is an article I shared with @arbor the other day: Fasting as therapy for neurological disease. As I said, the evidence is thin, but fasting is something that pretty much every species in the history of the planet has had to do at one time or another, so we should be fairly well adapted to it. 

 

It's great to have a toolbox of things that provide you with relief. Ensures you have a nice safety blanket if things go sideways. There are plenty of things that won't work, or that work for other people but won't work for you. But if you keep trying things, eventually you will find something that helps you, at least a little bit. So important to keep trying, even though it's hard. 

[DataGuy]

@phenylbot how are you doing? I have gotten back on track with fasting a bit and my sleep seems to have improved accordingly. Appears to work very well, in my case at least. The big difficulty for me is maintaining it. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by DataGuy

[phenylbot]

@DataGuyI'm still alive. Glad to hear fasting is helping your sleep. It wouldn't surprise me if food was in part to blame for various symptoms. It really shakes me up when I realize how unstable my nervous system can become due to thoughts alone. When I awake after any sleep I feel ok for a minute or two. My thoughts soon turn to my situation and boom! I right back in hell. Incredibly, I have had a couple days when my bowels have worked fairly well. Hope this continues. The knots in my gut are still very prominent.

   Been bicycling with daughter for the past few days. Forcing myself even in the depths of crushing depression. Still finding it hard to accept my lost years. I spent too long un-engaged in life and am now paying the price. I still don't have much interest in anything. This symptom needs to improve otherwise life is pointless. I think tardive dysphoria is real and I've had it for years. What some on here call toxic naps are real for me. As I nod off into a nap a sudden surge of terror forces me to get up and move. Not sure if this is akathisia but it sure is an aweful feeling. Traffic sounds still disturb me a lot and feelings of doom and gloom are strong. My real life situation is not great and a lot of what I feel is  

probably me waking up to the fact that my once comfortable life is now gone. It's hard to accept that there is no real help for this condition and the lack of support from the medical community is devastating.

  II need to get my 2nd vaccine and am expecting to be plunged further into this endless wave. It's only been 16 months since ct so maybe still some hope up the road. I apologize for my gloomy report. Hope you continue to improve.

[DataGuy]

The cortisol surge upon waking is a very common symptom in withdrawal, and seems to be a feature of withdrawal from almost all drug classes. There is a topic on it here, along with some ways to deal with it (don't recommend the melatonin though).

 

I agree tardive dysphoria is a real phenomenon. They are only beginning to study it, unfortunately. Here you can see a prospective study in which they propose discontinuation of antidepressants as a suggested treatment for "treatment resistant depression" and intend to evaluate "The patients....for the proposed diagnostic criteria of “tardive dysphoria” or antidepressant-induced depressive symptoms". Should be an interesting study when completed.  

 

Sorry you are still suffering, @phenylbot, but things will get better, slowly. I am annoyed by traffic sounds too. I've really come to loathe the busy area where I chose to live. It seems there is some sort of construction project on every single street. But sleeping a bit more really does do wonders for my symptoms. I will have to make a serious effort to be scrupulous about maintaining the fasting. Thanks for the well wishes : )

 

I think it is a big positive that you felt your bowel function improve for a couple days. Any sign like this is a positive one and a harbinger of more healing. Very important to remember and document things like this. Hope small improvements such as these can extend to other areas, especially for the depression and anhedonia. Always good to hear from you, @phenylbot. 

[ItsBojack]

Hello phenylbot. I took lexapro and remeron from age 15-25. I came off lexapro in February of 2020, and remeron in July of 2020. I feel I can relate a lot to some of what you experience. During my time on the meds I developed social anhedonia and my life became very isolative, complacent, and apathetic, but I was kind of ok with doing nothing and having no social contacts. I became very “schizoid”. I was living in intertia, just kind of existing. 
 

all hell has broken loose after I discontinued the meds. I can relate to your feelings of social anhedonia, lack of connection to people, pervasive apathy, and relentless akathisia. It’s almost like the meds wired my brain into someone I’m not, and now without them it can’t maintain that personality and doesn’t know what to do. it’s like I’m stuck in a permanently depersonalized and derealized state, hyper absorbed in my own thinking, and having a complete lack of feeling. I also feel like I’m just not really here, Like somewhere along the years of taking the meds I died and now I’m a ghost living a nightmare. I don’t know if you can relate to that last part but thought I’d share it just in case. 
 

My fingers are crossed for you, I hope you can achieve some form of recovery from this. Just keep swimming 🙌

 

 

 

[phenylbot]

@ItsBojack wow! So you came off the drugs apx. 4 months after me. Yes I completely get what you're saying about the schizoid state of living. I spent most of my time working on jazz guitar playing;  thinking 

that it was all I needed to be fulfilled. I got pretty good on it but lost interest a couple years before cold turkey off meds. Now it doesn't interest me at all. Many years wasted.

  Many years ago friends meant the world to me but after relocating a few times and going on meds (probably due to loss of contact with friends) this social anhedonia seemed to creep in. It seems like the game of musical chairs has stopped and now I'm stuck in a strange place with no way home. I'm not able to take Psych meds now and am forced to deal with this strange new world. I'm really feeling a sense of loss now for some of the bad decisions i made while medicated. Wondering if most of this can be chalked up to tardive dysphoria. I think it's likely good that meds are off the table as I believe recovery depends on abstinence. You are quite a bit younger than I am and were on meds for 10 yrs. Did you cold turkey or taper? I believe your chances of recovery are really good if you stay off the meds. They're what got you in this mess. I sometimes think that this is how a person would feel after being released from a long prison sentence .The world has changed so much. Stick with it, you'll get there.

[phenylbot]

@DataGuyHow are you doing? Hope things are improving for you.

I'm somewhere in the depths of this endless storm. The cortisol spikes are 24-7. The main persistent symptom is this deep depression. Makes it hard to do anything.

  I am coming to believe that connection to the world is a central part of what keeps our nervous system functioning properly. These connections with other people are no guarantee in life. I use to have lots of connections until I unwittingly moved to the country. Since moving here I've not felt the  connection required to be happy and healthy. Our society is set up to see to most of our needs but social connection is over-looked. It's ironic that, in a world where everything is for profit, we can't see to some of our most basic needs. 

   This withdrawal stuff is really amplifying my sense of loneliness. Now I'm dwelling on the feeling and am triggered each time I hear about the importance of connection. It seems that in this state I wouldn't feel connection even if it were available.  Obviously I've got a long way to go to recovery. The neuro-emotions are so strong. Real emotions but amplified. Hope I get a chance to connect with people again. 

  I hoped that these neuro emotions would have stopped this far in as they disturb my sleep and my entire day. Just had my second shot so maybe put me in a wave...don't know. Really feeling the cortisol rush un my face and brain these days. This wave feels different than others not necessarily better. Stomach knots are still here but paresthesia in arms is less pronounced.

Here's to better days ahead.

 

[DataGuy]

Hi @phenylbot,

 

I am doing ok. Sleeping a bit better lately, which I think has to do with getting away from my apartment, which became a kind of hellhole over the course of the pandemic. Seems I was all the sudden inundated with smoke from all directions. Tobacco smoke, pot smoke, smoke from my downstairs neighbour constantly burning things (I think he must have developed dementia). I'm still very sensitive to things like pot smoke, so that really sent me into a rough period of very little sleep and poor functioning. I'm in the process of trying to find another place that is in a quieter, cleaner area. Meanwhile I hope to set my neighbour set up with Meals on Wheels or something. Likely won't get anything until October or so. 

 

I think you are right, so much depends on social connection. I would even hazard to guess many MH problems are just a function of that (not fitting in, isolation, social awkwardness etc.). Hard not to notice this when dealing with people in the psychiatric system, and I don't think medication improves it. 

 

I'm sorry you are still suffering. You write very eloquently about it. Yes, I hope things improve now that the worst of the pandemic is behind us. It should be easier to see people and get out to do things in groups. I am hoping our indoor sports league starts up again, as I've been on the same team for a good decade and we haven't really seen each other in the last 18 months (other than Zoom calls).

 

I don't think you need to be triggered by the importance of connection. You will find plenty of connections once you are physically able too. Connections will not heal the withdrawal, but they may make you feel a bit better. Likely it is just symptoms which tend to take our minds in the worst direction on every topic. Hope you are feeling better soon, P : )

[phenylbot]

Hi @DataGuy Hope you are seeing improvements these days. I continue to battle the unrelenting loop of my miserable medicated years. I thought I was bullet proof and withdrawal has revealed all the wounds that went un-noticed. Working outside in the humid heat seems fine when i'm at it, but triggers an inner akathisia-like response when I get home to relax. This inner aka stays with me all weekend and I spend the time isolated in the house . The cortisol spikes are relentless and the despair brings me to my knees. One evening I felt some relief for maybe 15 minutes which was weird and surreal. The worst of my symptoms comes on when my mind tries to relax in front of the tv and early mornings. No meds or supplements for some time but still in the depths. Hope this finds you in a good place.

[DataGuy]

Thanks for the message @phenylbot. I am doing ok. Still going through fairly pronounced waves of sleep vs no sleep. I had a very good window a few weeks ago where I was sleeping 5+ hours a night. Fasting really seems to help. Or maybe just eating frequently seems to hurt. I guess there is a strong gut-brain connection and it seems to mediate my symptoms. Eating really seems to start a storm in my nervous system. At least if I am fasting for 16+ hours I have some moments of clarity throughout the day. 

 

Sorry you are still dealing with such intense symptoms. Really hope things start to clear up for you soon. For me, things have become much more manageable as time went on. I'm able to be more productive, stomach is better, can eat a wider variety of foods, cognition a bit better, mood most definitely better. I would say the depressed mood was strong upon cessation of the benzo, but has markedly improved even if sleep hasn't. Began to feel much better around the 18 month mark with continued improvements. Able to laugh much more easily. During the acute phase it felt impossible to even fake a smile. 

 

Things will get better for you. Cold turkeys are brutal. Withdrawal itself is bad enough. The windows and waves pattern can be very punishing because you get a glimpse of what feeling better looks like only to slip back into wd. And it lasts a long time, but the gradual improvement definitely makes things more tolerable. I found my wd has been something like 1) thought I would die --> 2) would survive but might never get better ---> will get better but it will take far too long ---> 4) better enough so that life is enjoyable, but still plenty of room for improvement. I'd say that is where I'm at now. I hope you can join soon, P. Just keep being kind to yourself. Know that this isn't your fault. 

[DataGuy]

How are you managing, @phenylbot? You said the symptoms are at their worst when you try to relax in front of the TV...when do they tend to be at their best? I am glad to hear you had 15 minutes of relief. Very strange how that can happen, but it is a nice glimpse into your future existence. 

[phenylbot]

Hi DataGuy, Nice to hear from you. That terrible feeling that wells up when I relax on the couch seems to have become my new constant. It's a heavy depression that seems part chemical and part situational. It's something I have not felt for many years...but more intense now. I seem to envy every happy person I see and marvel at their ability to experience joy. Could be a withdrawal symptom. Gut is still intensely knotted and strange pressure in my head is constant. Heavy feeling in my chest, Feels like homesickness I had at camp as a child. Memories of people and places who I have not thought of in years pass through my mind. Sleeping 4 hours a night. I'm working more hours now and that seems to ramp up the nervous system. I wonder about what is explained as inner akathisia. Somehow my thoughts all take on a dark depressive quality. I don't have the pacing or movement. Sometimes I think the idea of some lifelong dysphoria puts me in a real unshakable funk. Hope you are improving.

[DataGuy]

Sorry you are still suffering this torture, @phenylbot. I look forward to the day when you get some relief. Are you sure you are ok to work more hours? This can increase stress, although it can also help you forget about symptoms (for some). The doctor should not be approving more hours if it worsens your condition. 

 

When I think of inner akathisia I think of a constant discomfort with whatever you are doing, a need to do something else or be somewhere else, but then a similar feeling of discomfort when you try to do or go somewhere else. It would be something constantly gnawing at you and interfering with all aspects of existence. Pretty horrific. I think some describe it as a sort of itching in the brain. Do you find you have tight muscles or a stiff neck?

 

This won't be lifelong. How long have you been sleeping 4 hours? 

 

Withdrawal will naturally take your mind places it doesn't want to go. When I found myself getting angry for seemingly no reason, going for a walk tended to reliably help things. I'm sure I've mentioned this before. Important to have a few non-drug coping strategies you can turn to that can provide some relief. People with motor restlessness akathisia generally pace because it provides some respite from their symptoms. This is a good website if you want to read a bit more about it. Important to be proactive in helping yourself feel better. You will get through this, P 👊

 

 

[phenylbot]

@DataGuyYes your description of inner aka matches how I feel very much. It is present with everything that I do and is made worse by my uncontrollable racing thoughts. I do have a stiff neck, upper back and shoulder. I seem to be worse since taking on more hours. My dr. has not given me any instruction about work hours and I work in a non corporate setting with no special perks. Dr. has no real knowledge of paws. I'm trying to get on disability and this brings on more fear and worry about the future. I read that people can have this aka thing for years and I'm not so sure I can cope another week. I'm very impatient now and see myself in a very dark place. My bowels are locked up again and the knotted feeling is persistent. Every minute of every day is consumed with fear and dread. This feeling is many times worse than any depression

that I've experienced. Your words give me hope. Being around people  only makes me realize just how incapable I am right now.  I can't express the discomfort in words but I do want to crawl out of my skin. Without support from the medical community; I can see clearly that this condition could be fatal. Worse than my worst nightmare. Thanks for your time.

[phenylbot]

I've just learned on inner compass that akathisia must have the movement aspect in order to be recognized as such. This must mean that I am suffering from severe major depression. I'm concerned now that all my symptoms are a result of major depression with psychotic features. I'm wondering if this will get better without drugs. It seems I can't tolerate drugs so it could be that I'll be stuck in this hell for life.

[DataGuy]

@phenylbot I don't see that you have psychotic depression. It isn't true that you need the movement component of akathisia for it to be akathisia. Maybe for doctors to recognize and diagnose it (although even then they tend to misdiagnose it as anxiety). It won't last for life. At worst it will slowly improve and take a long time to get better, but even with modest improvement you will find that things are much better.

 

If it was psychotic depression and you could tolerate drugs, that would not necessarily mean that taking them would be the best course of action. Often they only have marginal benefits (like most drugs) and can produce the same terrible SX (movement disorders, akathisia, metabolic disorders etc.), not to mention withdrawal problems of their own that are even more poorly recognized than antidepressant withdrawal. They're also associated with poor real health outcomes. 

 

Is there anything you do that relieves your symptoms, P? What types of behavioral therapies have you tried thus far? In my acute phase I found exercise helped but sometimes my nervous system would be so amped up that I didn't have the endurance to exercise enough to calm it down. Once I got up to being able to run for 40+ minutes I found I could reliably calm my system regardless of how overstimulated it was. But there are plenty of other techniques you could try, this is just the one I found the most reliable (and productive). If it doesn't work...at least you are in good shape.

[Altostrata]

On 9/11/2021 at 11:48 AM, phenylbot said:

I've just learned on inner compass that akathisia must have the movement aspect in order to be recognized as such. This must mean that I am suffering from severe major depression. I'm concerned now that all my symptoms are a result of major depression with psychotic features. I'm wondering if this will get better without drugs. It seems I can't tolerate drugs so it could be that I'll be stuck in this hell for life.

 

This reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. You had a rough 2020 going on and off psychiatric drugs. You know you have withdrawal syndrome. As @DataGuy said, this does not call for a new psychiatric diagnosis.

 

How has your symptom pattern changed in the last 6 months?

 

What does this deep depression feel like to you?

[phenylbot]

hi Alto, It feels to me like the symptoms that orbited the depression ie: derealization, paresthesia (tingling in arms) are mostly gone. The depression is despair about the past present and future. Before the drug shortage I was in a bad place due to unfortunate circumstances and some bad decisions. The numbing effect of the drug must have kept me oblivious to my  deterioration.  My thoughts loop around all the events that have brought me to this dark place. I get paranoid about revealing as much as i have on this site as I didn't realize that anyone can access it. Could you possibly arrange that my posts be visible only to members or preferably mods? I'm very self conscious about my current state and have run away thoughts that deepen the despair all day long. I've lost all confidence and can't get out of my head.

   Unlike many members here; I was forced off a 30 yr. prescription of a drug that I was told to stay on for life. I was diagnosed with major depression in 1990 and was tried on tricyclics, ssri, antipsychotics all of which I had bad reactions to. N was prescribed and in apx. 5 weeks the cloud lifted . I thought i felt much better as the depression was gone. i might have been ok if the drug had been removed within a year. 

   I've painted myself into a corner and now have no support system in place. When I reach out for help I'm told that I need to get back on the drug.  In my current state more drugs would surely put me over the edge.

   I feel like a burden on SA as I realize that the site is intended to help people taper. Maybe my problems are too complex. I definitely  have withdrawal syndrome but likely have underlying issues that complicate things.