LotusRising: Buspar, Ativan

[Altostrata]

How do you feel after taking 0.75mg at 7 a.m.?

 

Frogie was suggesting ending at a daily schedule of 0.5mg in the morning, 05mg 8 hours later, and 0.5mg at night for sleep -- 3 daily doses with 8 hours in between each dose. Ordinarily, we recommend people make this shift in dosage schedule gradually, by moving doses an hour each day.

 

Since you took 0.75mg at 7 a.m. today, suggest you take the other 0.75mg at 7 p.m. You may or may not feel some bumps in this process.

 

We still need to see daily notes, 24 hours at a time. This will indicate if more changes are needed.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

It is almost 1:00pm and so far so good. I had some nausea in the morning, but I have reflected that in my notes which I will post this evening.

 

I will take the .75mg at 7:00pm tonight, but could I then switch to the 3 times a day dosing starting tomorrow? I am currently using a pill cutter, so it would definitely make things easier at the moment, until I can get a scale.  But if you think this is too many changes, please let me know. 

 

I'll post 24hr notes this eve.

[Altostrata]

@Frogie, what do you think, should we try twice-a-day dosing (12-hour intervals) for a bit?

[Frogie]

On 10/18/2021 at 1:03 PM, Altostrata said:

@Frogie, what do you think, should we try twice-a-day dosing (12-hour intervals) for a bit?

We certainly could try that. Move .75 mg 1 hour each day until you get to the time for the morning dose. Then take .75 mg at night. So if you take .75 mg at 7:00 am, you would take your evening dose at 7:00 pm.

Edited December 4, 2023 by LotusRising

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata@Frogie

 

Here's my 24hrs of notes:

 

Oct 17

8:00p.m. - took ativan 1.5mg

9:30p.m. - in bed and asleep quickly

1130p.m. - woke with racing heart, nausea, burning in scalp, weakness (felt like a low blood sugar reaction? but passed in 5-10mins and after a snack - I am not diabetic) I took a phosphatidylserene supplement last night, which I had forgotten about the last two days - maybe a contributor - it is to help manage sleep and cortisol)

 

Oct 18

5:45a.m. - woke up shaky, nauseous, with low-grade anxiety

6:50a.m. - mild tinnitus

7:15 a.m. - took 0.75mg ativan (started this before reading @frogie's message about moving doses gradually)

8:30 a.m. - still mildly nauseous, had a protein shake

8:30-9:30 - still somewhat nauseous, small uptick in anxiety, generally feeling weak, passed in about 45 mins with meditating/breathing

10:20 - mild tingling, short period, maybe 5-10mins

1:00p.m.to 2:00p.m. - mild tinnitus on and off

2:30p.m. - some tingling, mild

3:00p.m. - short surge of chest tightness, agitation, restlessness, breathing to help it pass

3:30p.m. - had started to doze and felt chest tremors/vibrations/catching breath type of feeling

4:00p.m. - tinnitus for short period

5:00p.m. - felt like anxiety was increasing a bit, but passed for a short time

6:45p.m. - a definite surge of anxiety and chest tightness, passed in 5-10mins

7:00p.m. - took 0.75mg of ativan

 

Should I be continuing with the 12 hour split dosing tomorrow? I'm sorry, I didn't see the message about moving doses over several days and instead went directly to the two doses morning and night.

 

Please let me know your thoughts.

[Altostrata]

That looks promising. How did you feel after .75mg Ativan at 7 p.m.?

 

If you can be consistent in taking your doses at 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., I would stay there for a while.

 

After we get a baseline symptom pattern over the next week or so, depending on the effect, we may move some of the morning Ativan to the evening.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata I feel ok so far. I have had some on and off anxiety, but I think this is also just due to me knowing that we are moving things around. This is honestly the best day I've had since last friday. I am cautiously optimistic.  So, shall I just keep sending you the 24 hrs notes? And yes, I can be consistent with 7 and 7.

[Frogie]

27 minutes ago, MedRN said:

@Altostrata I feel ok so far. I have had some on and off anxiety, but I think this is also just due to me knowing that we are moving things around. This is honestly the best day I've had since last friday. I am cautiously optimistic.  So, shall I just keep sending you the 24 hrs notes? And yes, I can be consistent with 7 and 7.

That’s great to hear!

[Altostrata]

Yes, need to see daily notes. Also include sleep pattern, please.

[LotusRising]

Good morning @Altostrataand @Frogie

 

I'm just wondering what the full picture looks like for the taper. I have been on 1.5mg daily ativan now for 13 days and I am worried about developing tolerance to this dosage before we even start tapering. Is the goal to stabilize the anxiety/interdose withdrawal effects and then begin tapering? And does tapering look the same for me, as it does for someone coming off of longer usage? I have a doctor appointment coming up where I will need to renew my prescription and I want to be able to articulate my plan.

 

Thanks so much.

[Frogie]

That is exactly the goal to get you stable so you aren’t suffering as much as you have been. I don’t think you’ll go into tolerance since you haven’t been taking it that long. I think you could ask the dr for maybe 3 months worth, just to be safe. You can always ask them for another refill as long as they cooperate. But you don’t want to take a chance of running our before you’re stable and tapering.

[LotusRising]

3 hours ago, Frogie said:

ou could ask the dr for maybe 3 months worth, just to be safe. You can always ask them for another refill as long as they cooperate. But you don’t want to take a chance of running our before you’re stable and tapering.

 

 

@Frogie ok, so do you mean it could take 3 months to stabilize and be done tapering, assuming things go smoothly, or that it could take me 3 months just to stabilize on the dose? I realize you can't answer this question directly, I'm more or less looking for a timeline, but if you can't answer that, it's ok. 

[Greatful]

 Hi, I just wanted to stop by and welcome you to SA.  I know this is scary and very uncomfortable, but the mods will get this figured out.  You can do this, you are stronger then you know, slow yourself down, practice your coping skills and most of all know that you are going to be okay.  Take one day at a time, stay in the day.  

 

Look around the site, learn what you can to help you get through this.

You will heal❤️

Remember you are not alone, reach out to other members.  We are here for you to help you in anyway we can❤️

Edited December 4, 2023 by LotusRising

[Frogie]

Unfortunately there are many on here that have taken many, many months to stabilize. I was one of them. I don’t want you to be upset about that. You need to concentrate on you and healing. When I got down I would read success stories and know there is an end in sight. You will stabilize and get better, you just can’t put a time limit on your own recovery. Hang in there it will get better 😊

[LotusRising]

Thank you @Greatful for the welcome. Yes, it is definitely scary and uncomfortable. It has stopped me dead in my tracks with not being able to work and two little kids to care for. It is overwhelming at times, but I am lucky to have a good support system to keep me positive. Thanks again for reaching out.

 

@Frogie yes, I will try not to put a time-limit on my recovery. I'm a facts and timelines kind of person, so not having a clear end in sight is tough. I can see that I've been improved a lot over the last couple weeks though, so I am reassured by that.

 

thank you both

[LotusRising]

@Altostrataand @Frogie I was about to send my 24 hr notes, but I've run into a problem.

 

I've took my ativan at 7:00 and I'm not sure what's happening. I was fine when I took it this morning. It is about an hour after taking it and I am feeling nauseous and more anxious. Before I took it, I could already feel a surge of anxiety/restlessness coming on around 630pm. The surge of anxiety has been in a wave-like pattern since - getting worse and getting better. It's like I was having simultaneous withdrawal symptoms from both the buspar and the ativan. I feel pretty much back to normal at this point (8:30pm)

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata and @Frogie

 

Here's my 24hr notes:

Oct 18

7:00p.m. took ativan 0.75mg

930pm in bed and asleep quickly

200a.m. awake with some anxiety, but back to sleep with meditation

500am - woke with lots of chest tightness/anxiety, tinnitus, some nausea - had a snack

700am - took ativan 

700am - 800am - feeling off, nauseous

845am - very mild scalp burning, really brief; tinnitus, mild until about 1030

1250pm - tinnitus, mild, seemed to pass, ears feeling slightly plugged, mild anxiety 1-2/10

230pm - tinnitus, mild, very emotional and crying

300pm - surge of anxiety, increase heart rate for about 20mins, followed by lots of crying

400pm - tinnitus, mild, also some mild ear pain/pressure

430pm - some scalp tingling/tingling in toes (short, only a few minutes)

             - itching various areas of body for about 30mins

630pm - can feel anxiety starting to pick up, ongoing with pins and needles/burning to scalp, tinnitus, nausea - this surge came in a wave-like pattern and seems to be dissipating? (815pm)

700pm - took ativan 0.75mg

 

My worst times in the last two days seem to be the 2hr window before the next ativan dose and 1 hour after taking it, as I'm waiting for it to work. The pattern I'm seeing are surges of anxiety in the morning and again at night in that window. And I have an afternoon surge as well, but it is not as bad.

 

What do you guys think?

[LotusRising]

@Altostrataand @Frogie

 

I can't seem to edit my previous posts, but I don' think the evening anxiety that started at 630 really went away until closer to 10pm. After doing a lot of reading on the site, I'm wondering if I had a paradoxical reaction to the ativan. Also, I've just updated my signature to include supplements.

[Frogie]

You have a short window to edit a post. But it’s ok. I think you need to give it a couple more days and let your body acclimate to the new schedule of the Ativan and we can go from there. Could you try some deep breathing and meditation maybe? That might help also. Hang in there. Hopefully you’ll be better in a day or two😊

[LotusRising]

@Frogie I’m a little worried about kindling, as I felt worse after my last dose. I have a previous history of Ativan use 9 years ago to give you a better idea of my history. I wasn’t sure if it was relevant or not.  I’m trying to adjust my signature. 

[Frogie]

Since it’s only happened this one time I wouldn’t think it’s kindling. I think your body is getting used to the new dosage schedule and it’s going to take a few days to straighten out. Can you try it a couple more days, give us the notes and we can assess it then? 

[LotusRising]

@Frogieok I can do that. I’m extremely anxious about taking my next dose. 

[Frogie]

I know it can be an an anxious moment. But I think if you read the “bad” times everyone has on here your mind starts doing the same. That happens to me a lot. But just take some deep breaths and try it for a day or two, do your daily notes and we can certainly go from there if needed. Hang in there. It does get better😊

[Altostrata]

Agree with Frogie, this symptom pattern may be from the transition. It may smooth out in a few days.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie and @Altostrata

 

This has been a trying day. Have not been able to get a hold of the anxiety, even with breathing and meditation. Had an appointment with my doctor today and she recommended trying to dose .5mg 3x/day and increasing that dose to .75mg 3x/day if I don't get a handle on the symptoms. Does this seem reasonable? Also given me a script for 5mg zopiclone as I have not been sleeping last 3 nights. Not sure I will take this. She has referred me to a psychiatrist, which scares me because I know they will want to do a fast taper.

 

I did not feel the 12hr split dosing was holding me.

 

What are your thoughts on all of this?

[Frogie]

If you can stay with your dr. Psychiatrists like to taper very fast. I think you’d be best to dose .50 mg 3 times a day and see how you do.

 

Hang in there😊

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[LotusRising]

@Frogieyes, I agree. My plan is to try for .5. And thank you for the encouragement. I will post 24hr notes tomorrow. 

[Greatful]

My heart goes out to you. 

 

Please try and avoid adding on more meds that you may have to taper off of.  I know how desperate we can get.  I did this last winter and now I am on 4 meds and none of it took away the WD and the mess starting and stopping meds caused.  Do some research on the drugs first.  I looked up the name and is came up under side affects  An increase in daytime anxiety or restlessness has been observed during treatment with zopiclone.

Can you try melatonin and there is a lot of helpful coping skills people have shared on sleep issues in Systems & Self-Care.  White noise at night is calming,  meditation.  

Here is  a little information on melatonin.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/189-melatonin-for-sleep/?tab=comments#comment-1453

 

Please be aware that the psych. will probably want to add more meds on hence poly-drug or try this try that. 

Research your position,  there is a lot of information here  here on SA that can help you become more in tune to the adverse reactions to drugs, drug interactions, interdose / withdrawal.  Try and be patient and let the mods work with you to get this sorted out.  There is no quick fix, believe me I would love one.  

 

I know that this is painful, scary and overwhelming but you can do this.  Break it down to one day at a time.

You can do this.❤️ 

And know that your brain can and will heal.

Reading success stories can help boost your will power and give your encouragement to push forward☺️

Edited December 4, 2023 by LotusRising

[LotusRising]

@Greatful,

 

Thank you so much for your support. It was nice to wake to reassuring and supportive comments  

I have no plans to use the zopiclone and did not use it last night. I have taken melatonin in the past, but find it only helps me with the getting to sleep part. At this moment, that does not seem to be an issue. It is the nightly waking that is really taking a toll. But, I agree, adding more meds into the mix will not be of any benefit for me.

My biggest concern is finding someone that will help me manage a slow taper of the ativan. I am adamant about not wanting to add any new antidepressants.

Last night was a little tough with over an hour of anxiety, but I did get through and I think that yes, day by day is the best approach. I did manage to get a little sleep too. On my short list is to review some different tapering strategies, so I am more informed.

 

Thanks again for all your positive comments!

[Greatful]

@MedRN

18 minutes ago, MedRN said:

My biggest concern is finding someone that will help me manage a slow taper of the ativan. I am adamant about not wanting to add any new antidepressants.

Let Frogie get you on a plan ask if the brassmonkeyside will work for you.  I was a mess with my xanax and we are on a schedule.  I am on a very low dose 3 times a day  .0625mg 3 times a day.  The lowest for me to squeak by. 

 

  You have to listen to you body.  You may only be able to start with a 2% cut every so many weeks.

I am starting a slowwww taper off my Lexapro will I am in my WD from last summer/winters horror show.  I am better then I was so I decided to try a taper.  I tried 2% on the first cut and I felt it for a few weeks waited for 25 days and did a 3% cut, that hit a little harder but slowly coming around today is day 26 from that cut.  Don't start to taper to soon.  You cns is really made at you Ha Ha.  l

All you need is someone to prescribe you the meds, you can get all the rest of the help here on SA.  There are members that only feel in the doctor on a need to know basic, some just say they are just trying to get to the lowest dose that they can function on, some don't tell them anything.  You will have to decide how much you think your doc. will support.  You might get lucky and they will work with you.  My new one is working with me.  I am not sure she fully understands what I am going through with all my symptoms, she kind of got stuck trying to work with the mess from my old Doc that pretty much said he didn't know what he could do for me. Hence the mess I am in.    

I find this reassuring to read ever once and awhile

It is  a story about a woman who recovered from benzos.  This applies to any brain altering drug

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/10914-what-is-happening-in-your-brain/ 

 

O boy there is a lot to learn isn't there.

Who would have thought when we were offered these drugs (without any discloser about the changes it will do to your brain or how hard it is to get off) that we would be  trying to understand what went wrong and how can some thing they say can take 2-12 weeks to take full affect but getting off them with the changes it makes can take months and months to go back to your normal. 

Let me warn you that the more you learn about these drugs the more you will shake your head in wonder, "How can the doctors pled ignorance when it comes to the multitude of things these drug affect in the brain and the whole body itself.

Youtube  Joanna Moncrieff and mad in America and look up on  the forums here on "in the Media"

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/page/wondering-where-start

this site is huge too.

 

Can I ask you since you are a nurse.  What is the general sense you get in your field.  Were you aware of WD/or of any of the affects  these drugs have on you when you take them, especially long term affects?  

 

 

[Frogie]

12 hours ago, MedRN said:

@Frogieyes, I agree. My plan is to try for .5. And thank you for the encouragement. I will post 24hr notes tomorrow. 

That sounds great. Hang in there😊

[LotusRising]

@Greatful

 

Thanks for all the info!

 

Honestly, as a nurse, I was definitely aware of withdrawal effects, but certainly didn't know how debilitating or long lasting they could be. And  I think the importance of a proper taper is often overlooked by our doctors too. There is always another pill, and sure, you can start it right away! It's sad.  And all the short-term stopping and starting of medications, even for a few days, is quite traumatic for the brain. But again, doctors tell you it's ok to stop CT and then throw you on a new med. Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of this info is passed on to the patients when they are being prescribed the medications and doctors just add in new medications when symptoms appear. It's a vicious circle and it's up to us to arm ourselves with our own knowledge and awareness. I worked in a mental health acute stabilization unit and the turnover was so fast. I think most of the patients ended up leaving with a prescription, but not enough information was given about the med, or side effects or any long-term consequences of taking these meds. People come in desperate, so they take the pill. Definitely a problem with the system.

[Altostrata]

All very true, @MedRN Deprescribing psychiatric drugs is about to become a skill very much in demand. Send me a personal message if you'd like to be in a study group for professionals to learn the basics.

 

As you can see, there is "the knowledge" when it comes to benzos. Other drugs have their ins and outs, too.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata and @Frogie

 

Here are my 24 hr notes:

 

Oct 20

900pm took ativan 0.5mg

1000pm in bed

 

Oct 21

145am anxiety 6/10, breathing to calm

245am tinnitus, mild

500am ativan 0.5mg

100pm ativan 0.5mg - mild anxiety 2/10 with chest tightness; mild tinnitus

400pm mild scalp tingling, tinnitus

745-930pm - slow, gradual increase in anxiety/chest tightness up to 8/10

                     - breathing was seeming to help, but then new wave of panic - legs tingling, weak and going cold, weird patchy areas of cold to scalp (is this normal??)

                     - this was followed by a wave of emotional crying and then another episode of feeling unable to breathe

                     - followed by nausea

900pm ativan 0.5mg

 

Way less symptoms throughout the day today. Felt mostly normal until the big waves of panic in the evening. Does this mean anything?

 

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

All very true, @MedRN Deprescribing psychiatric drugs is about to become a skill very much in demand. Send me a personal message if you'd like to be in a study group for professionals to learn the basics.

 

As you can see, there is "the knowledge" when it comes to benzos. Other drugs have their ins and outs, too.

@Altostrata I would be interested in more info on this. How do I send a personal message?

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata and @Frogie

 

In follow-up to my 24hr notes, my panic/anxiety/restlessness continued until about 100am, so from 745pm - 100am, I was having waves of anxiety/panic, inability to breathe and generally feeling "keyed up" and on edge with constant restlessness. It's like the ativan I took at 9:00pm wasn't able to catch up to what was happening. I think I finally fell asleep around 0130, only to be woken by panic at 0430. As the 0.5mg ativan did not seem to help much last night, I took 0.75mg at my 8hr window, which was 0500am.

 

I'm at a loss of what to do right now. Last night, I was almost to the point of not being able to control my breathing. I'm wondering if I should just be increasing my ativan to .75mg in order to stay on top of the anxiety. Short of this, I feel like I need to seek advice in emergency. I feel very desperate.

 

The last thing I want to do is add in more meds, but I'm wondering if anyone has had success with pregablin or seroquel. I'm scared and have no idea what to do.  

[Frogie]

I’m thinking maybe you should try .5 mg 3 times a day because Ativan only lasts 8 hours or so in your system. It could be wearing off before the next dose. And that could be causing your problems. A benzo needs to stay steady in your bloodstream or you will get breakthrough anxiety.
 

You could try to updose to .75 mg and see if that helps after 4 days or so on the .5 mg 3 times a day.

 

How would you feel about trying that? 
 

Let me know what you think.😊

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx