LotusRising: Buspar, Ativan

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Yesterday was a tough day. A lot of adrenaline type surges. The chest tightness I refer to feels related to these surges, not just generalized tightness I feel once in a while.

 

Last night was definitely better and I was actually able to sleep. Woke without anxiety and remaining anxiety-free at almost 1000 Nov 5.

 

Nov 4 notes - Day 5 clonaz .0625mg 06/10/14/18

 

0600             clonaz

0630             meditation, anxiety 4-5/10

0730.            anxiety 6/10, felt like an adrenaline surge, mild nausea, some shakiness

                     walked for 30mins

0900.           anxiety down to 3/10, mild chest tightness

1000            chest tightness gone

                     clonaz

1100.            mild nausea, anxiety 3-4/10

1130-1200   feel an adrenaline surge starting again, anxiety 4-5/10, chest tightness 3/10, breathing exercises

1400.            clonaz

1415              chest tightness 5/10, anxiety 6/10, went for a walk

1500              chest tightness down to 4/10, anxiety 5/10, massage to back, chest further reduced anxiety to 2/10, chest                          tightness to 2/10

1730              mild scalp burning

1800             clonaz

                     mostly calm, chest tightness 1/10, anxiety 1/10

1815             mild scalp burning 2/10

1900            25min walk

2000            mild chest tightness, 2-3/10

2100             tinnitus 2-3/10

                     mild scalp burning

2145             in bed

2230             tinnitus still 2-3/10, fell asleep

0200             woke, fell back asleep, some minor tinnitus

0330             woke, but back to sleep

0500             woke, mild tinnitus, chest tightness 4/10, some hand numbness

0600             clonazepam, no tightness

0945 (today) still no tightness or anxiety

 

 

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Notes for Nov 5 clonaz 0.0625mg 4x/day

 

All dosages should be accurate for Nov 4/5

 

0600            clonaz

                     chest tightness 1/10, some hand numbness lying on back, tinnitus 1/10

0715             no chest tightness, tinnitus still present 2/10

0900            tinnitus still present 2/10

1000             clonaz

                     mild scalp burning

1015.            meditation, short walk

1400            clonaz

1420            mild tinnitus 1/10

1445            short walk, no tinnitus

1545            tingling in right hand, brief

1700            mild itching, burning to scalp 1/10

1800            clonaz

1830            mild burning to scalp

1830-1900. feeling anxiety starting 2/10, restless

1900            25min walk

2000            mild anxiety 2-3/10

2100             in bed, fluttery type anxiety in chest 4/10, sleep meditation

2200-2330  slept

2330-0220. mostly awake, anxiety 4-5/10, occasional hand numbness

0220-0600. slept on/off, still low level anxiety on waking 2/10

0600             clonaz

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata 

 

Here are my notes for Nov 6 - we had a time change so you'll notice my time changes for my morning dose in order to keep everything the same. This is the third day where I for sure have accurate dosing. Shall I keep posting my notes for you?

 

0600          clonaz

0800          mild anxiety 2/10, tinnitus 1-2/10

0900          anxiety 3-4/10

1000          clonaz

                   mild tinnitus 1/10

1030          tinnitus 2-3/10, anxiety 2/10

1100           30 min walk

1400           clonaz

                   10min meditation

1700            anxiety 2/10

1800            clonaz

                    mild burning/itching to scalp

1900            45min walk

2000            tingling to rt. foot

2100             in bed reading

2200             asleep

2200-           brief periods of waking

0445            woke up

0500             clonaz

                     back to sleep and woke at 0700

[Altostrata]

Thanks, @MedRN Are you still feeling the chest tightness after taking a dose? Or has that gone away?

 

Yes, please continue to post your daily notes.

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata I did not have any chest tightness Nov 5 or 6, but yesterday, Nov 7, I had some mild tightness around the time of taking my second morning dose (0900) so unsure if related to clonazepam and difficult to know if it is reliably gone. I also had another adrenaline surge, although these seem to be less frequent. Please see Nov 7 notes below:

 

0500              clonaz 0.0625mg

                       fell back asleep until 0700

0700              tinnitus 2/10

0900              clonaz, mild chest tightness 1-2/10, tinnitus 2/10

0950              short wave of anxiety, shaky, lightheaded

1200               out shopping, feeling a lot of breathlessness wearing a mask - may have precipitated                           my adrenaline surge (heart rate was normal, but shaky and felt like intense panic for                             about 30min, followed by very cold sensation and nausea) - these seem to be                                      happening less frequently

1300               clonaz

1430              still feeling a little on edge from earlier surge, shaky, breathless, feeling like another one could be coming

1445              25min walk following by stretching, but still feeling breathless

1445-1700.    mildly anxious, breathless on and off

1700               clonaz

1845               mild burning/itching to scalp

2040              in bed, tinnitus 2-3/10

2200              asleep

0130               woke and dozed back to sleep

0330               woke and dozed back to sleep

0500               clonaz, dozed for a bit

 

I'm concerned about a psychiatrist appointment I have on Wednesday. This is a new psychiatrist, so he knows nothing about me. I will be relaying my entire story and hoping that he will understand that I would like to taper very slowly and continue to prescribe clonazepam. I am steadfast on not taking any other drugs at this point. At what point can I consider myself stable on this dose of clonazepam and be ready to start a taper? I'm trying to have some sort of timeline in my head that I can then present to the psychiatrist. 

 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata also might be worth noting that the last 3 days (Nov 5,6,7) have been accurate as far as dosages go. I've been very meticulous with my weighing.

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, MedRN said:

@Altostrata also might be worth noting that the last 3 days (Nov 5,6,7) have been accurate as far as dosages go. I've been very meticulous with my weighing.

 

Good information. It appears you are stabilizing on this schedule. Please continue with daily notes.

 

@Frogie, it appears the dosing is smoothing out but paradoxical symptoms indicate overall daily dosage is still a bit too high. Can we trim the 2 afternoon doses to 0.05mg each? That would be doses of 0.0625mg, 0.05mg, 0.05mg, 0.0625mg for daily total of 0.225mg rather than 0.250mg (a 10% decrease).

[Frogie]

@Altostrata
 

After looking at all the daily notes I agree with you that the afternoon doses should be decreased to 0.05 mg and then wait a few days to see how @MedRNis doing. It will take at least 4 days to show any differences.

 

Keep the notes coming, but @MedRNlets try this if you think it would help. I think we have found the sweet spot on the other doses for you.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[LotusRising]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Can we trim the 2 afternoon doses to 0.05mg each? That would be doses of 0.0625mg, 0.05mg, 0.05mg, 0.0625mg for daily total of 0.225mg

@Altostrata

 

My dosing schedule is 05/09/13/17. Can you confirm if you mean the 0900/1300 doses, or 1300/1700 doses.

 

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

appears the dosing is smoothing out but paradoxical symptoms

Are you referring to the chest tightness here?

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

Nov 8 Notes

 

0500         clonaz 0.0625

0840         feeling very cold, can't get warm despite layers, breathless

0900         clonaz 0.0625

1030          25min walk

1200          20min meditation, mild burning to scalp

1300          clonaz 0.0625

                   mild chest tightness 1/10, breathless/hard to breathe, mild tinnitus 1/10

1330          mild anxiety1-2/10, nausea - passed 20-30mins

1700          clonaz 0.0625

                  mild chest tightness 2-3/10, mild burning to scalp, mild anxiety 1-2/10

                  meditation/breathing 30mins

2045         in bed

2230         asleep

0130         woke, fell back asleep

0330        woke, chest tightness 3/10, breathing meditation, then back to sleep until 0500

 

 

[Altostrata]

6 hours ago, MedRN said:

the 0900/1300 doses

 

I would reduce these to 0.05mg each.

 

Yes, the symptoms you get after taking the dose appear to be paradoxical reactions.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Sounds good. I was confused because you both referred to afternoon doses. I reduced my 1300 dose to 0.05mg today. I will reduce both my 0900 and 1300 doses tomorrow.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Is my understanding correct in that the chest tightness is likely from the buspar withdrawal, but the clonazepam is exacerbating this symptom?

[Altostrata]

They look to me to be effects of your clonazepam doses.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata Ah, ok. I see. The reason I ask is because I was just looking through past notes and I can see I was getting chest tightness symptoms even prior to starting clonazepam, before I found your website. I will keep closer tabs and see what connections I can make as well. As long as we are reducing, it seems like it's moving in the right direction.

[Altostrata]

All I can do is go on your daily notes. Do these symptoms reach a peak after you take a dose or are they always there?

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata I think previously I could feel it coming on and it reached a peak. More recently, it seems to come and go. For example, last night I woke with it at 0300 and it has been lingering most of today, but yesterday and the day before, I had none. I'll try to pay closer attention to see if there's a pattern. 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Daily notes for Nov 9 - changed the 1300 dose to 0.05mg. Changing both the 0900/1300 today, as discussed.

 

I think I'm starting to see somewhat of a pattern to my symptoms. I am having a couple good days where I feel pretty much normal, followed by a day of more anxiety/chest tightness.  A positive! Yesterday was one of my anxiety days, also increased due to a doctor's appointment today.

 

0500              clonaz 0.0625mg

0845              mild chest tightness 2/10

0900              clonaz 0.0625mg

                       25min walk, chest tightness increased

1045               anxiety 2-3/10, nausea

1115                anxiety 4-5/10, meditation for 25mins helped temporarily

1200               tinnitus 2/10, nausea (passed by 1230)

1300               clonaz 0.05mg

                       anxiety has increased to 4-5/10

1315               30min meditation/breathing

1400               anxiety down to 1/10

1500               chest tightness 3-4/10

1545               tinnitus 2-3/10, lasted about 30-45min

1645               anxiety up again to 4-5/10, breathing

1700               clonaz 0.0625mg

1830               30min walk

                        chest tightness/anxiety 2/10

1900                anxiety seems to be gone

2030                in bed coloring/reading

2200                asleep

0200-0300.    awake, some tinnitus 2/10, fell back asleep

0500               woke up at 0500 and then back to sleep until 0700

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

In addition to above notes, just wanted to let you know that I spoke with a psychiatrist today that seems very well-versed in benzodiazepine tapering. She follows the 10% reduction and is open to flexibility in terms of length of time for the taper and how long to stay at a certain dose. She recognizes that some individuals are more sensitive than others and didn't push more drugs  She has also prescribed clonazepam in liquid form, which should make dosing much easier and stress-free. 

[Frogie]

That’s wonderful news!

 

Glad things are looking up for you.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

In terms of switching to liquid form, do you think substituting in one liquid dose on the first day, 2 on the second day, 3 on the third day etc, would be reasonable for allowing my body to adjust to the change in form of medication? Or do you find most people can transition straight to liquid? Thanks so much for your time, I know you are busy.

 

Day 2 Nov 10 notes on 10% reduction 0.0625mg/0.05mg/0.05mg/0.0625mg

 

0500             clonaz 0.0625mg

0700             back to sleep until 0700

                      20min morning meditation

0900             clonaz 0.05mg

0930             tinnitus 2/10

1100              very mild burning/itchiness to scalp

1300             clonaz 0.05mg

1600             tinnitus for about 30mins

1700             clonaz 0.0625mg

                     itching sensation to scalp for about 45mins

1730.            mild anxiety 1-2/10

2030            in bed

2130            mild anxiety getting to sleep 2/10

0130            woke with anxiety 2/10

0330            woke with anxiety 3/10, mild chest tightness 2/10 - breathing meditation

 

 

       

[LotusRising]

Hi @Frogie, yes it is good news. I'm wondering if you personally had any difficulty transitioning from tablet to liquid form when you were tapering? 

[Frogie]

I started out taking 1/4 of my liquid and the remaining in tablet for a week, the 1/2 & 1/2 for a week, then 3/4 & 1/4 for a week, then full liquid and I had no problems.

 

You might try that😊

Edited November 11, 2021 by Frogie

[LotusRising]

Ok, thanks @Frogie .

 

So, if I'm dosing 4 times per day, I could do one dose liquid and the remaining 3 in tablet form and proceed in the same way you did. I'm not sure I can do a week of each with the amount of tablets I have, but I'll get as close to that as I can. Thanks again for your time

 

[Altostrata]

Has it been only one day that you've taken the 2 middle doses as 0.05mg?

 

Mostly likely, you'll be tapering these 2 doses first, until you're taking only 2 doses a day, 12 hours apart.

[Frogie]

3 hours ago, MedRN said:

Ok, thanks @Frogie .

 

So, if I'm dosing 4 times per day, I could do one dose liquid and the remaining 3 in tablet form and proceed in the same way you did. I'm not sure I can do a week of each with the amount of tablets I have, but I'll get as close to that as I can. Thanks again for your time

 

I would try that and see how it goes. You just want your body to have a smooth transition to the liquid. I think you should be fine.😊

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata I started reducing on Nov 9, but only reduced the 1300 dose that day, as I had been confused about which doses you had wanted me to change. Yesterday (Nov 10), I reduced both 0900/1300 doses, and did the same today. So, at the end of today, it will be 2 full days. I wrote Day 2 on my Nov 10 notes. That would be an error on my part.

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Mostly likely, you'll be tapering these 2 doses first, until you're taking only 2 doses a day, 12 hours apart

 

This definitely makes the most sense to me. When I spoke with the psychiatrist she mentioned the next step as reducing all 4 doses to 0.05mg, but it does make more sense to me to move to eliminate the middle doses first. Easier too, in the long run. She seems flexible, so I'm thankful.

[LotusRising]

Day 2 Nov 11 notes .0625mg/.05mg/.05mg/.0625mg - adding in liquid dose starting Nov 13

 

0500          clonaz 

0700          chest tightness 3-4/10, meditation/breathing x 20 mins

0900          clonaz

                   chest still tight, feeling breathless, anxiety 2/10, feeling shaky, but passed

1000           tinnitus

1300           clonaz

                    tinnitus 1-2/10 for about 1 hr

1400           generalized chest tightness, went for a walk

1530           chest tightness is gone

1550           tinnitus 2/10, 30mins

1700           clonaz

1800           30min walk

1930           generalized chest tightness 2/10, gone in 20-30mins

2030           in bed reading

2130           asleep

0300          woke, fell back asleep until 0500

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Day 3 (10% decrease) Nov 12 Notes .0625mg/.05mg/.05mg/.0625mg - adding in one dose of liquid today Nov 13.

 

I've definitely noticed an increase in tinnitus over the last couple days, slow uptick in anxiety overnight and into today. Gathering it is likely related to the dosage decrease.

 

0500             clonaz 0.0625mg

0845             chest tightness 2-3/10, breathing/meditation/tapping x 30mins

0900             clonaz 0.05mg

0930             tinnitus 1/10, on and off all morning

1300              clonaz 0.05mg

1330              breathing x 30min

1400              tinnitus 1/10 x 1 hr

1500              mild anxiety 1-2/10

1600              drive into city, short panic attack 4-5/10, breathed through

1700              clonaz 0.0625mg

1800              30min walk

2100               in bed, anxiety 2-3/10, random muscle twitches to left side of body

2330              asleep

0300              woke with anxiety 4/10, tinnitus 3/10 for about an hour

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, MedRN said:

Gathering it is likely related to the dosage decrease.

 

Very possibly. This should clear in a few days.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Day 4 Nov 13 10% reduction, current dose .225mg/day

 

Anxiety most of the day, varying degrees, started to decrease into the evening. Woke in a.m. today (Nov 14) without anxiety.

 

0500.           clonaz 0.0625mg tab

0645            awake, tinnitus 2-3/10

0845            anxiety 4/10, breathing exercises

0900            clonaz 0.05mg liq

0915             anxiety 4-5/10, short walk

0930            random muscle twitching for about 15mins, tingling to lt. foot

0930-1200. anxiety on/off most of morning 2-4/10

1300            clonaz 0.05mg tab

1330-1630. chest tightness/anxiety on/off 2-3/10

1700             clonaz 0.0625mg tab

1830             tinnitus 2/10

2015             in bed coloring/reading

2200            asleep

0300            woke, chest tightness 3/10, breathing exercise and back to sleep

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Just from a quick glance of your notes, I think you are doing pretty well. Tinnitus is very common, I still have it. I've just learned that eventually it will go away. 

 

Your anxiety is still there but it doesn't look like it is overcoming you like you were experiencing. And you are able to get back to sleep. That's huge.

 

I hope you are doing well overall. Be proud of your self for your accomplishments.

 

Let me know if I can help any further.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

Nov 14 Day 5 Notes 10% reduction

 

0500        clonaz 0.0625mg tab, back to sleep, woke with not anxiety

0900        clonaz 0.05mg liq

1130         short shopping trip, chest started to tighten, slight panic, but breathed through

1200         tinnitus 2-3/10, 30mins

1300         clonaz 0.05mg tab

1600         tired, breathless, chest tightness, feeling like I overdid it with kids this afternoon - breathing x 30min

1700         clonaz 0.0625mg

1800         tinnitus 1-2/10

2015         in bed reading, coloring

2200        feeling anxiety creeping in

2200-0300      insomnia, chest tightness 3/10, but stayed in bed, maybe dozed

0300-0500.     slept short period

 

 

[LotusRising]

Hi @Frogie

 

Yes, the tinnitus comes and goes. I would say it is mostly not there, thankfully.

 

Anxiety is not overwhelming me like it was. I am able to take short trips to shop, though I find my nervous system is still quite sensitive and even short trips can still bring on more chest tightness and anxiety. I'm learning to take it slow, which is hard with two little kids that keep asking when mom will be better. A bit emotional today because of this. Sad that I'm not able to work, but managing to fill up my time. Insomnia last night, but I know this isn't forever and remind myself of this all the time. 

 

Thank you, yes, I am proud. I can see that I'm doing so much better than I was when I first found this site. Forever grateful to both you and @altostrata for sorting me out when I was so distressed and scared and unsure of what was happening 😊

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I'm sure it is difficult with 2 little ones. They don't understand. I'm thankful that I have grown children and a 14 year old granddaughter that somewhat understands.

 

It sounds like you are able to handle situations much better than you did at first. You are learning how to deal with it the best you can. That takes a lot of courage and determination.

 

I'm so glad I could help you. If you need anything, I am here to help anyway I am able to.

 

Keep up the great work! You are doing wonderful, remember that.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

Day 6 at 10% reduction - Notes for Nov 15

 

I notice my head feels clearer today. Also noticed that the last two evenings I have had anxiety, which is not the norm, and am waking with chest tightness. Today and yesterday, I also had anxiety in the morning, along with chest tightness. Makes me wonder if that morning and evening dose are in fact still too high? Or if I am still just adjusting to the change in dosage. I will pay closer attention.

 

0500.             clonaz 0.0625mg tab

0730              tinnitus 2-3/10 for about 30mins

0830              chest tightness 2-3/10, breathing meditation x 30mins to relieve

0900              clonaz 0.05mg liq

                       chest tightness gone, emotional

1300              clonaz 0.05mg tab

1400              yoga x 30mins

1500              mild chest tightness 2/10

1700              clonaz 0.0625mg tab

2015              in bed, tinnitus 1/10

                      feeling like anxiety is increasing

2200-            anxiety 4/10, breathing exercises for 30mins

2300

2330-0330.  slept

0400              woke with chest tightness 3/10