LotusRising: Buspar, Ativan

[Altostrata]

Don't confuse her by mentioning paradoxical reactions (which she should know about). Just say you think diazepam would be better, you're having trouble with the dosing schedule, and you fully intend to go off it after you're stable.

[Terry]

3 hours ago, Frogie said:

I know it's hard not sleeping, I'm lucky if I get 3-4 hours a couple nights a week. It certainly wears on you.

Do you think this is still from your xanax taper?  Do you get normal sleep the other 5 nights a week?  I've only just begun my xanax taper, but hoping (maybe unrealistically) that with a very steady, even taper I can keep side effects somewhat manageable.

 

(Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place.  I couldn't seem to find your benzo thread.)

[Frogie]

@Terry

 

I’ll post over on your thread so we don’t aren’t using hers😊

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

My notes from yesterday, Nov 26 - 3rd day of 3.4% decrease.

 

Altostrata, you had asked me yesterday if I had any anxiety before my 0500 am dose. I noticed over the course of the night last night, that my anxiety did in fact increase prior to my 0500 am dose. Perhaps I was just starting to notice the effects of the reduction we made on Nov 24. Also, today, I am not having the same intensity of chest/body tightness that I was for the last few days and it did not occur until after my 0900 dose. I was able to sleep a bit last night as well. Just want to confirm that I should still drop that 1700 dose to 0.05mg, in light of the increased anxiety overnight?

 

0500                       clonaz 0.055mg

                             tinnitus

0520                    chest tightening 4/10 - bath/massage

0745                     tightening around ribs/diaphragam 6/10

0800                     adrenaline surge

0900                     surge still ongoing

0900                       clonaz 0.05mg

1015-1045            small window of no symptoms

1045-1300           torso tightening/chest/ and into an adrenaline surge 5-6/10

1300                        clonaz 0.045mg

1300-1430           window with no symptoms

1430                     torso/chest, scalp burning

1700                        clonaz 0.6mg

1715                      torso/chest/arms/back still tight 5-6/10, after having a bath/massage

2000                     chest tightening 5-6/10

2030                     bath and in bed, chest still tight 4/10

2330                     chest slightly tightening up again

0000                    asleep around this time

0230                    woke with anxiety 2-3/10, back to sleep

0430                    woke with anxiety in chest, lack of breath type of feeling 4/10, breathing

 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Nov 27 Notes Day 1 reduction

 

No sleep last night. Noted today that I reacted to my 0500 dose around 6 with chest tightening that hasn't let up almost 3 hours later

 

0500                 clonaz 0.05mg

0600                 chest anxiety 2/10

0830                 feelings of panic - breathing x 30mins

0900                 clonaz 0.05mg

                          still feel sense of not getting enough air

1045                  "        "

1100                  chest tightening 3/10

                          heart pounding slightly, tinnitus

1300                  chest still tight 2/10

1300                  clonaz 0.05mg

1500                  mild burning to scalp

1500-1700        generalized anxiety 2/10

1700                  clonaz 0.05mg

1830                 restlessness/anxiety 2/10, went for a walk

2030                 in bed

2345                 sudden tightening in arms/face/scalp, on/off until 0245

0400                 waves of nausea/dizziness when eyes closed

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

You could try decreasing your dose as @Altostratasuggested and see if that helps.

 

If you could talk to your Dr and see if you could get on diazepam I think you might do better. It has a much longer 1/2 life in your system.

 

In the meantime just take care of yourself. 

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Frogie yes, I’ve decreased my dose according to Altostrata’s recommendation and am continuing with my notes. 

[Frogie]

@medrn

 

That sounds good.

 

Do you think you could get diazepam from your Dr? I think you might do better on it because it has such a long 1/2 life.

 

You'll get through this, just take care of yourself.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Nov 28 Day 2 Notes for reduction .20mg/day

 

0500                 clonaz 0.05mg

0600                 nausea

                          chest tightening, progressing into arms 3-4/10, bath and massage

0845                 still residual chest/arm tightness 5-6/10

0900                 clonaz 0.05mg

                          had another bath, massage and did some stretching which helped to relax things

1250-1600        chest tightened really quickly (<1min), spread to arms, torso and into legs 6/10

1300                  clonaz 0.05mg

1700                  clonaz 0.05mg

2030                 short episode of heart pounding, 5-10min

2100-2330       chest tightening, progressing into body 4-5/10

0000                 tinnitus

0050-0500.      slept on/off, episodes of anxiety 2-3/10, used breathing to settle 

 

 

 

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I was just checking in on you.

 

Hope you are doing a little better.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Nov 29 Day 3 Notes for reduction .20mg/day

 

I noticed a decline in intensity of the tightness during the day yesterday, but an increase in reactions overnight last night.

 

0500               clonaz 0.05mg

0500-0800.   anxiety on/off 2-3/10, passed, breathing

0900               clonaz 0.05mg

1100                mild chest tightening 1/10, 30-40mins

1300               clonaz 0.05mg

1330               tinnitus

1400               mild scalp burning

1420               mild chest tightening 1/10

1600               increase tightening in chest and into arms 4-5/10

                       mild scalp burning

1700.              clonaz 0.05mg

1800               chest starting to tighten, 3-4/10, cleared by 2015

2030               in bed

2100                bit of anxiety in stomach and up into chest 2/10

2315-0115.      adrenaline surge accompanied by tinnitus, some tightness, breathing and heating pad

0200-0400.    adrenaline surge with chest tightness and tinnitus, breathing

 

[LotusRising]

Hi @Frogie thanks for checking in. Better day during the day yesterday, less intense paradoxical reactions. Little worse last night.

Still hanging in there. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

It's always good when you see even a tiny improvement.

 

Wishing more to come your way!

 

Please keep me posted.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Overall, it is seeming like the daily dose is still too high. I have chest tightness most of the day and night. Do you think there will be further improvement over the next 2 days, or would it make sense to move forward now with the next reduction you suggested?

 

Nov 30 notes Day 4 for reduction to .20mg

 

0500                  clonaz 0.05mg

0630                  chest tightening 2-3/10, until about 0700

0800                  tinnitus 2/10

0900                  clonaz 0.05mg

1000                   mild nausea, worse with eyes closed, drowsy feeling

1250                   chest tightening 3/10, cleared by about 1430

1300                   clonaz 0.05mg

1500                   tinnitus 3/10 for about 20mins

1655                   chest tightening 3/10, lasting until about 2015, bath/massage

1700.                  clonaz 0.05mg

1900                   muscle twitching to left arm

2045                   in bed

2230                   chest starting to tighten 3/10

2330-0500.        slept on and off, chest remained tight throughout the night and into the morning 3-4/10

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

@Altostrata suggested decreasing your 1300 and 1700 dose by 0.001 every four (4) days after staying on this dose for a week. That was on Friday.  It's only been a few days. I just don't want you going through unnecessary increasing/decreasing because it's just not good on your system at all. I'm afraid you're going to be in worse shape than you are now if you keep messing with your doses.

 

Can you hold a few more days and then maybe you could try decreasing the 1300 and 1700 doses by 0.001 every four (4) days and we can assess your symptoms then?

 

Did you give thought to switching to diazepam? Then you would only have to dose once a day. It stays in your system up to 200 hours. 

 

Another thought would be move your 0500 dose to 0600, then split the 2.0 ml into three (3) doses and skip the 0900 dose. So you would take 0.067 at 0600, 1300, and 1700.

 

It would be a little over 2.0 ml but spreading it out farther apart might help. It would be a total of 2.01, which would probably be barely noticeable.

 

I know this is really hard. But you seem to do just a tiny bit better daily. 

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Frogie

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

You're absolutely right. I'll hold. I have seen some tiny changes and I'll celebrate that for now. I'm so anxious to feel stable and functional and I just needed a little reminder. 

 

I'm not sure about switching to diazepam. My body has had such a hard time switching from lorazepam to clonazepam, and there's always a chance that could happen with a switch to diazepam as well. I'll see how I do over the next little bit.

 

thanks again

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Unfortunately, patience is a virtue right now.

 

Be thankful you're seeing just tiny improvements. 

 

I think you're going to be ok if you keep holding😊

[Altostrata]

I would like to see you taking clonazepam twice a day. We may be able to get this done by gradually eliminating those two middle doses.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

Dec 1 Day 6 Notes for reduction to .20mg

 

0500                   clonaz 0.05mg

                            chest still tight from overnight 3/10

                            tinnitus 3/10

0730                   tinnitus 3/10

0830-1000.        episode of mild anxiety 2/10, breathing to calm

0900                   clonaz 0.05mg

1000-1300          no symptoms

1300                    clonaz 0.05mg

                            chest tightness starting 1/10

1400                    chest tightness increased to 4/10, then down to 1/10, cleared by 1545

1700                    clonaz 0.05mg

1750                    chest tightening 4/10

1900                    chest tightening decreased to 1/10

                            ear pain/pressure 2/10

                            small adrenaline surge - felt a little revved up

1930                   tinnitus

2015                   chest tightening 2/10 x 30mins

2130                   in bed

2200-0500        awake all night - anxiety/panic attack, pit of stomach anxiety, tinnitus, very tight muscles

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

@Frogie

 

My symptom pattern seems to have a trend in that we reduce the dose and the chest/body tightness tends to ease over a few days. After the few days, I have anxiety/panic and adrenaline surges and then the chest/body tightness begins to increase again. Yesterday, the tightness was much better and I felt like it was manageable. Today, it is much worse and I feel like I am reacting with greater intensity and duration at every subsequent dose of clonazepam. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Which dose do you feel the most symptoms after taking it?

 

You could try to reduce that one by 0.001 every four (4) days and see if that helps.

 

Sorry you're having these symptoms but let's see if this might work.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie it definitely gets more intense with the 1300 and 1700 doses, thought I am getting tightening today with all 3 that I've taken so far. I'm on Day 6 and alto originally wanted me to hold for 1 week. Would it make sense to just go ahead and reduce both the 1300/1700 doses?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

It's close enough to a week I think it would be ok to reduce those two doses.

 

Let me know how you're doing.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

@Frogie

 

Notes for Dec 2 .05/.05/05/0.049 - decreasing both 1300/1700 doses today

 

0500                     clonaz 0.05mg

                              tinnitus

0600                     muscles really tight, heart racing briefly - had a bath

0900                     clonaz 0.05mg 

1000                      chest starting to tighten 2/10, increased to 3/10 at 1100

1200                      torso tightening and into chest area as well 3/10

1300                      clonaz 0.05mg

                              torso/diaphragm area still tight 4/10

1500                      torso/diaphragm/chest area remain tight after bath, massage, rolling 4-5/10

1540-1640            no tightness

1640                     torso/diaphragm starting to tighten again 3/10

                              tinnitus

1700                      clonaz 0.049mg

1800                     torso tightening again 3/10

                             tinnitus, ear pain, pressure

2010                     torso tightness remains, moving into chest 4/10

2045                    in bed

2230-0500         slept on and off in 2hr increments, chest tight t/o night 2-3/10

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

You could drop the 1300 dose by 0.001 and see if it helps getting them consistent.

[LotusRising]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:52 AM, Frogie said:

suggested decreasing your 1300 and 1700 dose by 0.001 every four (4) days after staying on this dose for a week.

@Altostrata@Frogie

I started decreasing these doses on Thursday - had some minor relief Thursday evening and throughout the day on Friday. Yesterday evening and overnight last night, the chest tightness is increasing again and today (Saturday) I have reacted to both my 0500 and 0900 doses with as much intensity as before I made the reduction. Can I reduce by 0.001mg every 3 days instead, which would see me make a reduction today, or maybe I need to do a bigger reduction? What are your thoughts? 

 

Day 3 notes for yesterday Dec 3

 

0500                clonaz 0.05mg

                         chest tight, cleared by 0730

0700               tinnitus 3/10

0900.              clonaz 0.05mg

0915               slight tightening, very brief

0935               tightening in chest and into diaphragm 3/10

1015                chest cleared

1030-1130       mild anxiety with some restlessness

1300                clonaz 0.049mg

1610                 chest tightening 3/10

1700                 clonaz 0.049mg

1740                 chest still tight from 1610 3/10

1800                 chest tightness decreased 1-2/10, passed by 1900

2045                chest tightening, clear by 2135

0245                tightening again and on/off throughout night

[Altostrata]

I had thought you would gradually reduce the 0900 and 1300 doses, to eventually eliminate them. 

 

@Frogie what do you think of an accelerated reduction schedule, to every 3 days?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

@Altostrata

 

I think every 3 days would be the way to go at this point. Get these eliminated and then move on to the other two doses.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

@Frogie

 

Ok, so today's schedule was

 

0500 0.05mg

0900 0.05mg

1300 0.049mg

1700 0.049mg

 

Tomorrow

 

0500 0.05mg

0900 0.049mg

1300 0.048mg

1700 0.049mg

 

with plan to reduce 0900/1300 every 3 days by 0.001mg.

 

I was just thinking that tomorrow's schedule looks confusing.

 

Perhaps I'll drop the 0500/0900 doses first, then start on the 0900/1300. Easier to keep straight. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by MedRN
Changed last sentence.

[Frogie]

@MedRN

Does the 0500 dose bother you like the other doses? If not, I’d drop the 0900 and 1300 doses .001 every 3 days. Then we will work on the other 2 doses.

 

If you think it would be easier to drop the 1st doses then you could do that. But it seems you have more problems with the 1300 dose than anything.

 

Let me know if that sounds like a plan to you or your thoughts on this.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Frogie

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Historically, no, this is the least problematic dose. It did however bother me today, but perhaps because I was already tight most of the night? I can start with the two middle doses.

[Frogie]

I think that's what you should do is start with the problematic ones and get them eliminated first.

 

Please keep me posted.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

@Altostrata

 

Here are my notes for last two days. The tightening at the end of the evening yesterday carried forward into today as well. I'm still wondering if I need a bigger drop in dosage - it seems all doses are problematic at this point. And without dropping that evening dose, I wonder if it is the reason why the tightness carried on throughout the night. I'm having very few times with relief from any tightness in most areas of my body and this is after lots of self-care - baths, massage, rolling, heating pad, weighted blanket. When you have time, please let me know what you think of all this.

 

Dec 4 Notes  .198mg/day

 

0500              clonaz 0.05mg

0630             chest tightness 2/10 x 1 hr

0845              torso/diaphragm tightening 3-4/10

0900              clonaz 0.05mg

1045               mild tightening around torso, passed

1235               torso/back tightening x 1 hr 2/10

1300               clonaz 0.049mg

1400               tightening to torso x 30 min 2/10

1520               chest tightening 4/10 and into adrenaline surge x 30min

1620               anxiety 2/10, breathing x 20min

1700               clonaz 0.049mg

1945               chest tightening x 1 hr

2230               in bed

2330-0400.   slept

 

Dec 5 Notes - Day 1 decrease of accelerated reduction every 3 days .196mg/day

 

0500               clonaz 0.05mg

0730               tinnitus 2/10

0800 -1000    chest tightening 3/10

0900               clonaz 0.049mg

1115-1330       chest tightening 2/10

1300               clonaz 0.048mg

1445-1730     tightening to chest/back 3/10

1700               clonaz 0.049mg

1945-2100     tightening chest 2/10

2240              tightening again 2/10 x 1 hr

0000-0500.   chest/back tightening throughout the night on and off, with short adrenaline surge

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

You could try to reduce every 2 days and see if that helps. I just am concerned that's a little too fast, but try it and keep the notes coming😊

[Altostrata]

The goal is to reduce or eliminate the middle doses -- they are building up into the evening, and that is why you feel overdosed at night. Your last dose at 1700 needs to cover 12 hours. Reducing that one may cause interdose withdrawal during the night.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

@Altostrata

 

Would reducing by .002mg every 3 days for 0900/1300 be too much? I did not tighten after my 0900 dose today, but am starting to after my 1300 today.