LotusRising: Buspar, Ativan

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

No worries, I know you have a life outside of SA!

 

Thank you for getting back to me. I didn't reduce the 1000, but the abdominal tightness has dissipated throughout the day, thankfully! I am just waiting to see if it recurs from my 1000 dose, which would be any time here. 

 

When would I start the microtaper? According to my notes, my taper for the last week was 3.6%, up to and including yesterday. Would I start right away, as in tomorrow, and do I just taper the doses consecutively - if I last did my 0400, then I would do 1000 the next day, then 1600 and so on?

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Let's get all your doses equal again. Then hold for a day or two if possible and then you could start micro tapering. You would micro taper each dose to keep them equal. 

 

I think we could get you off a little faster and maybe you wouldn't have as many symptoms as you are having now.

 

I hope you keep feeling a little relief throughout the day. 

 

Please keep me posted.

 

P.S. My life outside of SA today was cleaning house yuck lol...

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Here is another link on micro tapering for you to look at:

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

Let me know what you think.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Yes, now that you've simplified it by saying to reduce by .001mg per day, it sounds a lot less complicated. I thought I would be making calculations all the time. This sounds like a listen to your body type of taper and perhaps an easier way to manage the paradoxical symptoms. I like the idea of it being a little quicker too - I think my body just keeps telling me to get it out, but obviously not too quickly ...

 

Still no reaction to my 1000 dose so I believe I'm in the clear  for now. I will see what happens with my 1600 and go from there.

 

As for house cleaning, I can't wait to clean my whole house again! I used to put on my music really loud and make my way through all the rooms - I'm looking forward to feeling better and really enjoying all the little things. If there's one thing that's been really hard, it's not being able to do much physical activity. I am so close to the mountains and most of our weekends are spent cross country skiing with the kids - it's been tough. We've had so much snow here too ...

 

Thank you again for your support. Last night was really terrible and I couldn't get out of the negative mindset I was in. It's so hard to just lie there and feel all the hurt and not be able to get any relief. I am thankful today that my symptoms have eased and I'm able to sit here relatively comfortably. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

It is easy to micro taper once you understand it. It took me a while to wrap my brain around it too. It is a listen to your body taper, so if you have a bad couple of days just stop and breath. Then go back to it. But I really think it will help you. Your body is just saying enough is enough already! 

 

I hope you are in the clear for both doses and you get a little reprieve. You are getting a little better here and there so I think you're on the mend, so to speak.

 

I stay at home (I'm on disability, long story), so I have to keep myself on a schedule or I won't do anything except watch tv and play with my puppy. So Wednesday is house cleaning and Thursday is laundry. My two most miserable jobs I don't like at all. But have to keep busy. And you will get back there. It took me a while, my poor hubby worked 10-12 hours a day (he's an electrician), came home cooked dinner, did dishes, laundry, and cleaned the house, while I sat. I'm glad I feel good enough to do it again.

 

I bet the snow is beautiful where you live. I live in Colorado and we get snow. But nothing like you I'm sure. I tried skiing twice, rolled down the mountain more than I skied. So, not for me lol... water skiing is my thing.

 

Keep me posted as you are so well at doing.

 

I hope you start feeling better. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I just thought I'd check in really quick and see how you are doing today?

[LotusRising]

Hi @Frogie

 

Thanks so much for checking in

 

Today has been a good day. I have not had any tightening from doses since yesterday’s 1600 dose. I am hoping my levels are now low enough that my body is stabilizing. 
 

I also slept last night - broken sleep, but still a move in the right direction. 
 

I held on my doses today - had some ear pressure and didn’t want to push it, so I still have two more reductions to make to even them out. 
 

And I walked halfway around the block with my husband today - a huge accomplishment. I cried happy tears when I got home. I still find I am watching the clock for when the tightening might happen, but I’m cautiously hopeful …

[Altostrata]

Good to hear that you're seeing signs the dosage reduction is bringing improvements. Thanks for being tenacious and hanging in throughout the process.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata and thanks to you as well for helping me get to where I am. It has been one of the most difficult things I’ve ever done, and while I know my journey is not over, for the first time, I am feeling hopeful. Thank you 🙏🏻 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

That is wonderful news! I’m so glad you stuck with it. I think we are on track for a happy future.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Yes, definitely! But I may have spoken too soon, as I am now getting some tightening. Ugh.
 

BUT, I will reduce my 2200 dose. It will make my doses all uneven again, but I know I can even them back out. Still feeling grateful and hopeful  

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Hopefully reducing the 2200 dose will help.

 

I'm feeling hopeful for you too🙂

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

At what point am I holding when I’m micro tapering? I can see from my notes that I was basically already doing it before we even talked about it - it looks like I have reduced daily for 5 days.
 

Do you think I’m still ok to do another reduction tonight, or should I be waiting? 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Sorry to answer you after the fact but if you feel that you can handle it, I’d start the micro taper and see how you do.

 

Keep me posted and we will go from there.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

No problem at all. 
 

I decided to hold last night. My muscles are feeling really tight and I’m not sure if it’s because of an accumulation of reductions, or just soreness. Also, when my 2200 dose kicked in last night, I had a lot of restlessness in my legs. Do you think this is yet one more reaction to the medication?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Restless legs are a very common symptom, once again. I found that I bought some magnesium spray on Amazon and it helped, doesn't take it away though. I also have a weighted blanket and a weighted throw (it's small, just fits over my knees and calves) helped too.

 

If you start feeling better, I would try to reduce the 2200 dose and then we can go from there.

 

I haven't read this as of yet, but maybe you can find some other methods that might help.

[LotusRising]

Ok, so not necessarily related to my dose then. That’s good. 
 

My current dosing 

 

0400 0.040mg

1000. 0.041mg

1600. 0.041mg

2200. 0.040mg

 

Should I still reduce the 2200, or try for one of the others?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I would work on the 1000 and 1600 doses first and get them to the same as the others. 

[Altostrata]

You're doing a brilliant job managing this, @MedRN You, too, @Frogie

 

IMO, the restless legs suggest a paradoxical reaction, there's still a way to go in clonazepam reduction. However, you might find stretching your legs and taking magnesium or rubbing magnesium oil on them to help.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. Please let us know how you’re doing.

[LotusRising]

Thank you @Altostrata 

 

Yes, @Frogie has really been helping me out. @Frogie I'm going to try and reduce both the 1000 and 1600 doses today, then hold for a day or two. Then perhaps I can move on with the micro taper.

 

With the timing, it did feel like it was related to my dose, but I haven't had it at all today, perhaps because it's daytime and I'm not focusing on it. I take omegas and I take a mag supplement 2x day. I also have a couple of magnesium balms that I can try to see if it helps. I'm really hoping it is a passing symptom as I was just starting to get more than a couple hours of sleep - it seems when one symptom goes, another one pops up - but I guess the nature of it all. As of today, I've also been getting an intense itch on the sole of my foot - it's been relentless today. Hope it lets up!

 

Onward and upward  

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Withdrawal symptoms are just the pits, aren't they? 

 

I know I have one go and another pop up and wonder what now? But they do eventually go away.

 

I hope the magnesium oil/ointment will help just a little. 

 

My feet burn and itch. But I also have neuropathy from a fall. I can relate though, it is very annoying.

 

You are plugging along and doing a really great job.

 

Work on those 2 doses, then maybe give it over the weekend to see how you are doing. If "ok", then start the micro tapering.

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Frogie any tips/tricks for dealing with the itching? I’ve tried a topical anti-itch and lavender essential oil without much luck. I didn’t find anything specific when I did a quick site search. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I use First Aid Ultra Repair Cream and it helps a lot. I don't know where you can buy it where you live, maybe Amazon? I got mine on QVC. But I'm the QVC shopping queen lol... I know Ulta Beauty also sells it.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Really tough night again. Abdominal tightening from 1945-0300. Brutal. I’m not sure what’s happening. Am I just getting more sensitive to the medication the lower I go?
 

I had reduced my 1000/1600 yesterday, so I was expecting to have relief and be able to sleep for a bit.  But because of the all night tightening, I ended up reducing my 0400 dose as well. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to hold for a couple days or not.
 

I guess I’ll see how I feel. I have had tinnitus all night and now into this morning as well. 
 

0400. 0.039mg

1000.  0.040mg

1600.  0.040mg

2200.  0.040mg

 

I hope I haven’t overdone it. 

[Frogie]

I you feel like it would help, maybe try reducing the 1000 and see what happens. The lower you go the harder it gets sometimes because your body is so used to getting these meds it fights you to give it back. So you might have to "bite the bullet" per se, and just start micro tapering and see how it goes. Hopefully better for you.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

If I keep taking it away, will it just continue to fight back harder though? 
 

I feel so depressed.  I don’t even know how to get through this day. I was feeling so good just a couple days ago. 

[Frogie]

I think your body will give up once it gets the message that it's not getting it anymore.

 

You might have a little here and there, but just look back at how much better you ARE getting! 

 

You are going through waves and windows also, that's why you feel like you do.

 

Did I give you the link on Waves and Windows? I'll send it to you if I didn't.

 

I would try the magnesium spray on your stomach even. It might give you some relief. Or Epson salt baths before bed might help.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

ok, I’m not sure what I’ll do. I’m as worried about getting withdrawal headaches and ear pressure as I am about the tightening. I’m at over 12 hours of tightening at this point. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I hope it will ease as you get over this. But try the magnesium it might give you some relief or even a heating pad. You're headaches seem like they are disappearing which is a good sign. It will get better.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Frogie

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

I decided to reduce the 1000, but if I still have no relief by 1600, should I be reducing that dose as well? Or at this point do I need to wait for these changes to take effect? I still don’t understand why my reductions aren’t working yet … 

 

Jan 8 reduced 2200 total daily dose .168mg

Jan 9 reduced 0400

Jan 10 reduced 1000/1600

Jan 11 reduced 2200

Jan 12 reduced 2200

Jan 14 reduced 1000/1600

Today reduced 0400/1000 so far at .158mg total daily

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I think your body is getting used to the reductions and just lashing out at you.

 

I'm sorry I'm answering so late, but if you haven't taken your 1600 dose quite yet, go ahead and reduce it if you feel comfortable doing so.

 

We just need to get you off and feeling better.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Yes, I have no idea what's happening. I took a probiotic the last two days - one I took before all of this happened - could that be messing with anything?  Is it usual for the body to lash out?

 

I'm honestly surprised I haven't had any withdrawal-type symptoms with the reductions I've already made - they usually provide me with some level of relief - unless the abdominal tightening is a symptom? I've always associated the tightening with paradoxical reactions, so I don't know. It has not let up at all. It will be 24 hrs at 1930. There is an underlying ongoing tightening (3-4/10) and then it gets worse for a while with each peak 5-6/10) of my doses, which I guess might suggest my levels still need to come down? I can't even eat  

 

Anyway, I didn't reduce the 1600 as I thought it might be too much, but I can reduce the 2200. I'm honestly hoping it will pass though.

 

I appreciate you getting back to me on a Saturday.

 

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I would avoid the probiotic if possible. Maybe that contributed to your symptoms. Although I doubt that is what it is.

 

I think it is strictly wd. Because you are decreasing more currently, your body is fighting you wanting it back. You are just having different symptoms than others. Can you push on your stomach? Is it hard or soft? When you push on it do you have any pain? Or just discomfort from pushing on it. Are you running a fever or any other symptoms? Are you nauseous? I know I'm asking a lot of questions but just making sure it isn't something that couldn't be related to wd. But I really think it wd and hopefully reducing the 2200 dose will help.

 

Try to eat some crackers, yogurt, drink some peppermint tea. That might help.

 

Sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier. I was at dog training with my puppy. She needs to learn manners lol... She is a little chiweenie and thinks she's a doberman.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

My stomach is soft, the tightening is underlying, almost overlaying my intestines if that makes sense. It's very difficult to describe. I'm not really getting any sensations of hunger either, which is weird. And it has not moved around at all, which is unusual. Just constant. I have no fever and I'm not nauseous. It does get painful when my dose peaks, but I tried Tylenol and it seemed to help. Crossing all my fingers and toes that it passes soon ...

 

I've got some white rice lined up for dinner if I get hungry and I'm drinking electrolytes.

 

A chiweenie! That sounds typical of a small dog lol. Good luck on the training. We are planning for a puppy when I'm off the crappy medication. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

That makes perfect sense. I'm glad that it's not worse. I was thinking it could be appendix, but it's not tender or you aren't running a fever.

 

Rice will be good. Oatmeal, soft foods, and small meals. Even a piece of cheese if you can get it down. Or protein shakes are really good. I drink them and love them.

 

I'm hoping that getting you off this you'll feel better. Then you can get a little puppy!!

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

And my appendix is already out!

 

I seem to be getting a little reprieve for the first time in 24hrs. Not sure if it will last, but would it make sense to hold on that 2200 dose if it continues?

 

And yes, my kids can’t wait for a puppy