LotusRising: Buspar, Ativan

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Here are my notes for Jan 1 - dropped all doses by 0.001mg - extremely low mood today, lots of muscle tension - I am getting increased tension still for about 1 hour before most doses, which continues until my dose kicks, an hour or two after I take it. This does not necessarily always happen with the 0400 dose. I did not sleep well at all last night, as I woke with extreme tension at 0100 and was afraid if I went back to sleep it would happen again.

 

0400             clonazepam 0.043mg

0600             chest tightening x 15-20mins, and then into back/shoulders

0900             chest heaviness

1000             clonaz 0.043mg

1145-1400    chest tightening into head/jaw/glutes 4/10

1600              clonaz 0.043mg

1700-1900    tightening into neck/head/shoulders 1-2/10

1930-2030   heart pounding, tightening into chest/abd

2200             clonaz 0.043mg

0100             woke with extreme back/shoulder tightness 8/10, heat/massage - didn't go back to sleep

0300             chest tightness 2/10

 

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Now that all the doses are the same, would you feel comfortable holding a couple of days and see if we can get the symptoms to lessen a little? Or do you think you want to decrease again in a couple of days?

 

I'm thinking that maybe holding a couple days might tone them down just a little.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Yes, I held today and will hold tomorrow to see how things go. As much as I would love to reduce again tomorrow, I just don’t think I can handle it. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I think that would be a great idea. I'm glad you are listening to your body and not just a schedule. Very good call.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

@Altostrata

 

Here are my last 3 days notes: I did my reduction as planned on Jan 1 of all 4 doses. I have had a completely unbearable headache since 2030 last night - it is almost as if the paradoxical reaction I was previously having in the form of chest tightness, is now in the form of intense head pressure/pain. Is this possible? Or was the overall reduction too great? The headache seemed to get worse with my dosage last night and I have previously always gotten worse on day 3. The original plan had been to decrease again today, but I held because of the onset of another headache, which I thought meant my body needed to hold, but now I'm wondering if it in fact just needs another reduction. I am using ice for symptom management. I have tried both small amounts of tylenol and advil with no effect. Please let me know your thoughts. I'm wondering about what I should be doing with my 1000 dose.

 

Jan 1 - dropped all doses by .001mg

 

0400              clonaz 0.043

0600              chest tightness x 15 mins, into back/shoulders

0900               chest heaviness, passed

1000               clonaz 0.043mg

1145-1400     chest tightening, into head/jaw/glutes 4/10

1600               clonaz 0.043mg

1700-1900     tightening into neck/head/shoulders 2/10

1930-2030     heart pounding, tightening into chest/abd

2200               clonaz 0.043mg

0100               woke with extreme back tightness 7/10, tight on/off all night

 

Jan 2             

 

0400               clonaz 0.043mg

0600                tightening into shoulders/chest 10-20mins

1000                clonaz 0.043mg

1030               mild burning to scalp

1310               chest tightness x 5 mins, moved into head/ears/scalp

1400              still in ears - tried small amount of ibuprofen with no effect

1600              clonaz 0.043mg

1945-2130    tension headache again 5/10

2200              clonaz 0.043mg

0100               back tightening 5/10

0500-0900.    back tightening

 

Jan 3

 

0400               clonaz 0.043mg

05-0800         back tightening - heat/massage

1000                cloanz 0.043mg

1315-1530      head pressure into glutes/diaphragm 3/10

1600               clonaz 0.043mg

2000               mild head pressure to head/neck 2/10

2100                increased to 3/10, 6/10, 10/10 around 0000 - didn't let up until around 0200, then started again

0400               clonaz 0.043mg

0500               head pressure/pain 4/10 - still current at 0700 my time

 

 

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

That sounds like a typical withdrawal symptom, but I'm sorry you are having headaches. They can just be debilitating.

 

I would go ahead and reduce, so we can get you off this as quickly as possible and hopefully the headaches will subside. Then go ahead and reduce the other doses so we can get them back on track.

 

Here is some information I found on headaches (although I haven't read it, sorry).

 

 

You can take tylenol and then in  4 hours take ibuprofen. Switching between doses might help. Cold compresses on your forehead also may help.

You might try a heating pad on your neck. Sometimes that helps me when I get a migraine.

 

I hope you feel better.

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Frogie

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

Ok, thank you frogie. I will press on. Thank you for your support. 

[Altostrata]

This may be the reductions of the last 2 weeks culminating in more intense withdrawal symptoms. If I may, I'd suggest holding at this level for longer, until this symptom goes away, then reduce only the 1000 and 1600 doses.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Yes, we did try reducing out those two doses a while back, but it seemed my body did not tolerate taking the higher doses for the 0400/2200. And it seems when I hold for longer than 3 days, the paradoxical symptoms come back quite severely. 

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

I may need to hold at just reducing two doses today. I'm getting an increase in restlessness, some burning and also some numbness/tingling to my arms. I'm worried that dropping the two other doses may increase these symptoms?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Hold please until you feel more stable. I think holding for a few days will catch you up and then you can reduce again.

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Just checking on you?

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

I had insomnia for what felt like most of the night. Fell asleep really easily around 2200, but woke at 2300 when my medication kicked in and tossed and turned after that. The tightening to my back was not as intense though and I made it through without heat or massage. I’m considering moving my 2200 back to 2100 to see if I can get more sleep in between when my last dose kicks in and when I have to wake for my 0400. 
 

I am holding doses today. If all goes well for the remainder of the day, I will drop the 0400/2200 doses tomorrow to even them all out. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

That sounds like a very good idea. You may even want to hold another day and see how you do, then maybe it will let up and you'll be able to get the doses the same again.

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Here's my notes for last two days

 

Jan 5 - held today due to increase in symptoms .17mg/day

 

0400                clonaz 0.043mg

0500                chest tight, dose kicking in, passed in 15minutes

0600-0730.     chest tightness 3/10

0930-1030      chest tightness (interdose?)

1000                 clonaz 0.042mg

1250-1400       some tightening into shoulders/neck - moved into chest, ribs, and back, mild headache

1530-1730       restlessness, sense of vibration in legs and needing to move

1600                clonaz 0.042mg

1900                 chest tightened x 30min

2000-2030.     chest tightening again, into neck/jaw/glutes/abd 5/10

2200                 clonaz 0.043mg

0100                  back tightening 4/10

 

 

Jan 6 - reduced 0400 dose .169mg/day

 

0400                clonaz 0.042mg

0520-0800      intense abdominal tightening 6/10 with pain

1000                 clonaz 0.042mg

1500                 ear pressure/pain 2/10

1600                 clonaz 0.042mg

1800-2230       head pressure/ear pressure 4/10

                          tingling to left arm/hand x 10min

2200                 clonaz 0.043mg

0030                 awake, tightening to neck/jaw/back

0300                 woke, some mild tightness to chest (interdose?)

 

The headache and ear/head pressure seem to have diminished, but I'm waiting out the day to see if it is completely gone. I'm also very short of breath today and my heart pounds a lot when I get up, but I think I remember that is normal right? My plan would be to decrease the 2200 dose to even all 4 out, assuming no headaches/ear/head pressure. Does that sound reasonable?

 

I guess I would need to hold for a couple days after that before doing another reduction. I'm not sure about reducing all 4 doses at once - it seemed to set off a whole cascade of really bad headaches and head/ear pressure - but, I guess I can see how I feel when it comes to that time.

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

It does look like the headaches are subsiding. That's a good sign.

 

It is VERY normal to have shortness of breath and heart rate increase. I have that A LOT also. I have to just tell myself that it will go away. I sit and take deep breaths and I breathe through my nose and out my mouth to bring my heart rate down. Here is some information on heart rate and shortness of breath.

 

 

Do you drink caffeine? Eat sugar? That can contribute to headaches, shortness of breath and even your heart rate increasing. Just an example, my resting heart rate is around 67, but because of the junk I've eaten at Christmas it has jumped to 77. So, I have stopped eating sugar. Last night it went down to 72. 

 

If you feel like you can decrease the doses to get the all the same again, you can try it. Then I'd wait a couple of days and see how you are doing before the next reduction. You could try two of the doses, wait a couple of days and do the other two. You may need to go back to every 3-4 days now that you are getting lower. The lower you go, the harder it gets unfortunately. And all of this decreasing can catch up with you also.

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

No, I don’t eat sugar really at all and drink no caffeine. Thankfully, the shortness of breath subsided this afternoon. I’ve had it before and it’s always a little disconcerting because it makes me feel like I’m going backwards, so I’m glad it passed. 
 

Ugh, it’s disheartening that it gets harder the lower you go. I was hoping for the opposite. I just wish these paradoxical reactions would go away as they are quite debilitating. It seems I get symptoms on either end and it is really frustrating. 
 

Anyway, plugging along. I think I will decrease my 2200 to even then them out, as I’ve felt mostly good so far today. 
 

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

It is the pits that sometimes it gets worse the lower you go. But your body is craving the drug and you are taking it away, so it's "throwing a fit". 

 

I'm so glad you can see that the shortness of breath is a withdrawal symptom and will go away. 

 

It sounds like you are on the right track. Since you are feeling a little better so ahead and reduce so they are all the same dose. Then hold a couple of days and see how you are feeling. Like I said before, it may be catching up with you and you may need to hold a extra day or so just to be sure.

 

Take care!

[LotusRising]

Hi @Frogie

 

So, this morning when I was taking my 0400 dose the syringe slipped and I lost what looked to be a number of drops from my dose. I took a few extra drops, hoping to make up for it, but don't really know what the exact amount was that I took. I had planned on reducing my 2200 dose today, and now I'm wondering what I should do. 

 

My last few reductions were Jan 1 of all 4 doses, Jan 4 of the 1000/1600 doses and Jan 6 of the 0400 dose. I'd really like to get the 2200 dose down, but wondering if I should drop my tomorrow 0400 dose down to .041mg - I just don't want to updose. I had a bit of nausea this morning around 0845, so I'm not sure if related to the 0400 dose mixup.

 

Current dosages

 

0400  0.042mg (this is the one I lost part of the dose)

1000.  0.042mg

1600.  0.042mg

2200.  0.043mg  

 

What do you think?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I've had that happen to me a number of times when I was tapering my Lexapro. It's a mistake. You just go on. 

 

Do you feel well enough to drop the 0400 dose. or do you feel you should hold and you could drop your 2300 dose? Only your body can tell you how you feel.

 

Maybe hold until tomorrow and let the 0400 dose settle for the day and see how you feel?

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

I guess I’ll wait and see how the day plays out. I still got some head/ear pressure yesterday, which is why I didn’t reduce it yesterday, but it didn’t seem as bad as the day before. I’d really like to get the 2200 dose down as it feels like the reaction to that dose is starting to creep back up again. I guess I’ll see what the rest of the afternoon/evening bring. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

You still have time in the day to see how you feel by 2200 and decide if you want to reduce that dose or wait one more day🙂

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Yes, definitely. I’ve noticed the reactions are starting to last longer so that might be another indicator that I need to reduce. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

That seems to be your body's "sign" that it is time to reduce.

 

Just make sure you feel like it by 2200.

 

Take care.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

So, because the reactions were starting to get worse, I did go ahead and decrease that 2200 dose on Saturday. I ended up all that night with abdominal tightening, so I probably should have reduced it sooner. I went ahead and also reduced my morning dose the next day (9th). Last night I was up all night, again with intense abdominal tightening and this morning with my 0400 dose I am having chest and glute tightening. 

 

My doses are a little messed up right now:

 

0400 0.041mg (reduced Jan, 9)

1000 0.042mg (reduced Jan. 4)

1600 0.042mg (reduced Jan.4)

2200 0.042mg (reduced Jan 6, then Jan.8)

 

I know I need to reduce somewhere to get on top of the paradoxical reactions - do you think I should reduce the 1000/1600 doses, then wait a couple or 3 days for the 2200 dose, or should I reduce the 1600/2200 doses? Or what are your thoughts?

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I'm so sorry you are having these symptoms.  I know it's not fun at all. But you are really handling it as well as you can. That is wonderful. 

 

38 minutes ago, MedRN said:

I know I need to reduce somewhere to get on top of the paradoxical reactions - do you think I should reduce the 1000/1600 doses, then wait a couple or 3 days for the 2200 dose, or should I reduce the 1600/2200 doses?

I would go ahead with this plan and see how you do.

 

But once again, Bravo! You are doing a great job🙂

 

 

 

[LotusRising]

Hi @Frogie

 

I went ahead and did the reductions on the 1000/1600 doses yesterday so I just have the 2200 dose left.

 

So basically, I did a reduction Jan 8 (2200), Jan 9 (0400), Jan 10 (1000/1600). I slept overnight last night for the first time in over a week I'm sure and didn't wake with any tightening. But today, after my 1600 dose, I'm already feeling the effects of the reduction wearing off and am tightening again. Do you think too soon to reduce the 2200 dose tonight to even everything out?

 

I'm at .165mg/day 

0400  0.041mg (reduced Jan 9)

1000.  0.041mg (reduced Jan 10)

1600.  0.041mg (reduced Jan 10)

2200.  0.042mg (last reduced Jan 😎

 

 

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I would go ahead and reduce. It seems you are doing better the lower we are getting you.

 

Do you think you are up to it?

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

I'm not having any withdrawal side effects, but I'm also worried about that catching up with me. 

 

My body seemed to only react to doses when they peaked, but now it seems to be reacting at onset, making for a lengthier reaction.  It's very frustrating. Or is this just a rebound effect from the reduction that needs to settle.

 

I will reduce the 2200 dose. 

 

Do you know of anyone else that has had these difficulties? Would daily reductions make any difference?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

There are a lot of members in the same situation as you. Some are having more symptoms than you are.

 

I think you should reduce the 2200 dose, then hold for a couple of days if possible.

 

Then you can do micro tapers daily if you think you could handle it. I would just hate for it to catch up with you all at once.

 

You might want to take a look at this link on micro-tapering. Let me know what you think.

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Well, it's good to know I'm not the only one. The pattern of tightening seems to be changing. It has gone from my chest at the beginning, then to my back and then to my abdomen and glutes. I hope this means that the nerves that are no longer firing, are attempting to heal. 

 

Do any of these members find relief from their paradoxical reactions with bigger cuts and longer holds?

 

Anyway, yes, I will go ahead and reduce the 2200 dose. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Oh no, you are not the only one going through this.

 

It just means that your nerves are firing up and trying to reconstruct themselves. They reconstruct one area and move to another, sometimes without finishing their job, kindof like construction. They move from one area to another. Then move back to the other area.

 

You will get relief eventually, I just wish I had a magic wand or crystal ball and I could tell you when, but you will heal.

 

Go ahead and reduce the 2200 dose and let me know how you are doing.

 

Let me know what you think about micro tapering also. 

 

Hang in there. You are getting better. You slept all night last night, big step!

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Thanks so much for the reassurance. Hopefully they move along to "reconstruct" another area sooner rather than later, as it's very difficult to find eating windows where my abdomen isn't tight.

 

I can tell I'm healing, I just wish, as most of us do, that it wasn't such a painfully slow process. It felt amazing to sleep through the night while my nerves took a little rest. I am definitely moving around the house more and have managed to get out for two very short walks to the end of the street. Baby steps ...

 

Micro tapering sounds a little complicated, but I need to reread it when I'm feeling better.

 

I'll let you know how I'm doing. Thanks again 😊

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I think you are starting to stabilize now that we are getting you lower.

 

I know you don't see if like you want to, but you go for walks, you've slept all night, and I didn't hear you say you were breathless today. That is awesome!

 

Read the micro taper as you feel like it. Basically, you would decrease .001 every day or every other day. But you have some "wiggle room" to read it and see what you want to do.

 

Again, I think we are making great headway!

[LotusRising]

@Frogie

 

Not the greatest night. I had abdominal tightening from 2300 last night until 0500 this morning. I didn't know what to do so I reduced my 0400 dose to 0.040. The tightening abated for a bit and I got about an hour of sleep from 0545 to about 0700 and now it is back at 0800 - my peak medication time. Should I just stay the course, or reduce again at 1000? It almost seems like my body is getting more sensitive to the medication the lower I get in dosages. Is this possible?

 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Sorry I didn't get back to you this morning.

 

I would reduce if you can, your next dose.

 

But I think it wouldn't hurt to try micro tapering. It just might bring the relief you need at this point.