LotusRising: Buspar, Ativan

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, MedRN said:

Makes me wonder if that morning and evening dose are in fact still too high?

 

This is possible, but we have to move slowly.

 

It's been 6 days since the reduction to 0.225mg per day. Changes in clonazepam dosage settle in 6-9 days. Do you want to try reducing the 5 a.m. dose from 0.0625mg to 0.05mg?

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata thank you for your response.

 

Yes, I completely understand going slow and I certainly don't want a worse outcome at the end. I am transitioning to liquid over a 2 week period and we just made a reduction recently, so perhaps I will try to stick it out until that 9 day mark and see where I'm at. I've been pushing myself a little to make it to some stores, but noticing that this is causing panic attacks, so perhaps I will dial that back a little. In the last two days, I've noticed that the chest tightness is more nervous system related (I can feel the tightness come on and peak and then fade with breathing/meditation), as opposed to generalized anxiety, so I will keep an eye on this, but it is currently manageable.

 

Here are my notes for yesterday Nov 16 Day 7 10% reduction

 

0500                clonaz 0.0625mg tab

0600                chest tightness 2/10, anxiety 2/10

0830                anxiety 3/10, hands shaky

0900                clonaz 0.05mg liq

0930                meditation x 30mins

1000-1200       anxiety 1/10, notice head is clearer today

1300                 clonaz 0.05mg tab

                          meditation x 20mins

1400                 short trip to department store - prompted a panic attack that lasted about 20mins

1440                 mild burning to scalp

1700                 clonaz 0.0625mg tab

1715-1830        felt chest start to tighten and escalated into what felt like an adrenaline surge, tinnitus 3/10, vision a little                           blurry for a short while (noticed this previous evening as well)

1850                 some mild burning/itching to scalp

1900                 20min walk

2045                 in bed, tinnitus 1/10

2230-0300.     slept

0400                felt chest start to tighten and peak, breathed for 20mins and it slowly released

[Altostrata]

It appears the 0.0625mg doses are too high, you're getting paradoxical reactions from them, especially the 5 p.m. dose because the blood level has built up over the day.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Ok, so are you thinking I should drop the morning dose to 0.05mg? Is this too fast? I'm just finishing Day 8 of the 10% reduction. Is this common - for people to stabilize and then have adverse effects again?

 

But yes, this makes sense. I did have another adrenaline surge this evening at almost the exact same time.

[Altostrata]

It looks to me like your prior reduction has washed out and your symptom pattern has become stable to the point we can see the paradoxical reactions fairly clearly. 

 

You might reduce only the 5 a.m. dose to 0.050mg. That's a 5% reduction on your daily dose of .225mg. It will lower the drug blood level in the evening, over about 6 days, like your prior reduction.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata that sounds like a plan to me. I’ll keep you updated and as always, thank you so much for your time. 

[LotusRising]

Hi @Altostrata

 

Just wanted to get my notes off a little earlier as it has been quite a night. I'm wondering if we should just do a 10% reduction, instead of the 5% we discussed. I had wave on wave of adrenaline surges and anxiety last night and still into this morning. I will start with the 0.05mg this morning for my 0500 dose, but when you have time, please comment on the 1700 dose. I do recall my psychiatrist saying I could reduce every 10-14 days, which seemed rather quickly to me at the time, however, I'm much more interested in your thoughts, as you have been following my symptom pattern and she has not. 

 

Day 8 Nov 17 at the 10% reduction - starting Day 9 today Nov 18 at 0500

 

0500               clonaz 0.0625mg tab

0700               mild anxiety 1-2/10

0900               chest tightened, breathed for 15 mins to clear

                        clonaz 0.05mg liq

1030                short walk

1200                mild anxiety 1-2/10

1300                clonaz 0.05mg liq

                        mild chest tightening 1/10, breathing meditation x 20min

1630               mild anxiety

1645               adrenaline surge, mild tinnitus, scalp burning/itching, 15 min walk and 20mins breathing

1700                clonaz 0.0625mg tab

2000                increased anxiety to 2-3/10, mild chest tightness, tinnitus 2/10

2045-2330.    slow increasing adrenaline surge, at its peak 8/10, tinnitus 2/10

0100                episode of anxiety, pounding heart

0130                another episode of anxiety, pounding heart, tinnitus 2-3/10, dozed

0230-0300     wave of anxiety 4/10

0415 (now).     must have dozed, but woke up to anxiety 4/10, chest tight, tinnitus 3-4/10, shaky

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

I'm still not seeming to get any relief from the anxiety despite breathing exercises, meditation and walking. I had thought it would pass at some point in the night, but it didn't. And now I feel like I'm reacting to my 0500 a.m. dose as well. My body seems in constant adrenaline surge with tight chest and feeling unable to breathe. Do you have any advice? Or, if anyone else has advice, I am open to it. 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Day 1 Notes for Nov 18 5% reduction - rough start to Day 1, but slept overnight and today things are looking up

 

0500             clonaz 0.05mg

0730             chest tightness 4-5/10

0900             clonaz 0.05mg liq

0920-1030.   adrenaline surge

1030-1200.   chest tightening, another surge

1300              0.05mg clonaz liq

1345              heart pounding, another surge

1530              chest tight, shaky, anxiety 4/10

1700               0.0625mg clonaz tab

1830              anxiety lifted a bit, chest finally released after a bath and massage

2000             chest tightening, full adrenaline surge by 2030

2130             tinnitus

2230             another surge but no related chest tightness

2330             fell asleep

0445              woke with chest tightness, relieved with breathing

[Altostrata]

You might reduce the 5 a.m. and 5 p.m. doses to 0.050mg. That would be a 10% overall reduction.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata I think I'll try to hold with just the 0500 reduction or now. I think I may already be feeling the effects of the reduction - the adrenaline surges and chest tightness were less frequent and less intense today. As much as I want this medication out of my body, I'm also worried about reducing too quickly. I'm going to try to be patient and see how my body reacts over the next few days.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

I wonder if I've reduced too quickly. Since my last reduction on Nov 18, I seem to be in a perpetual state of withdrawal - I have had constant panic attacks, barely able to control them, muscle tightness. I'm wondering if I should updose back to 0.0625mg for my next dose? It looks like we've made a 15% reduction in less than 12 days. Metabolism is skyrocketing and eating constantly to keep up.

 

Day 2 Notes Nov 19

 

0500               clonaz 0.05mg

0700                increased HR for short period, I'm guessing compensation for reduction

0900                clonaz 0.05mg

0900-1045      anxiety 4/10

1045                chest tight, relieved with breathing

1300                clonaz 0.05mg

1430                panic attack about 30mins

1600                still anxious, tried yoga but became breathless

1700                0.0625mg clonaz

1730                tinnitus 1/10

1800                feeling very restless

2030               chest tightness that turned into adrenaline surge/panic attack, has continued                                        throughout the night

0000               still awake, anxiety 7/10, panic very hard to control, tried walking, breathing, baths

0300               tinnitus 3/10, anxiety 5/10

0400               headache, small vice around head type of feeling, still constant anxiety, like on verge                            of panic attack

0500 (Nov 20). clonaz 0.05mg

0700               panic attack

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Why don't you try to updose 1\2 the amount you tapered off of and see if that helps with the symptoms. I just don't want to see you go too high and have more symptoms and have to go back down too quickly again.

 

It will take about 4 days to know how it does.  But please keep posting the notes.

 

Does that sound reasonable to you?

 

Take care. It will get better.

Frogie xx

 

[LotusRising]

@Frogie thank you for your reply frogie. Do you think it’s worth sticking it out?

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

If you could stick it out a few more days and see if it settles that would be great.

 

I don't want to see you suffer, but going up and down is harder on you as you already know.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie yes, I’m trying to stick it out. Doesn’t make sense to make a change when I won’t see any effect for a few days anyway. The symptoms feel quite bad, the muscle tension and tightness is really tough and the surges are tiresome. But I’m strong and I know I can do this. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

You are very strong. What helps me are nice hot baths, even lavender oil. Lots of fresh air.

 

Keep me posted please.

[LotusRising]

@Frogie Just to confirm, if I updose, I would do half of the 5% reduction? I changed my morning dose from .0625mg to .05mg, so .005mg? 

[Altostrata]

Good idea, @Frogie

 

Adding 0.005mg back in sounds reasonable. This is not an exact science.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie if I were to add this back in, when would I add it?

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, MedRN said:

Day 2 Notes Nov 19

 

0500               clonaz 0.05mg

0700                increased HR for short period, I'm guessing compensation for reduction

0900                clonaz 0.05mg

0900-1045      anxiety 4/10

1045                chest tight, relieved with breathing

1300                clonaz 0.05mg

1430                panic attack about 30mins

1600                still anxious, tried yoga but became breathless

1700                0.0625mg clonaz

1730                tinnitus 1/10

1800                feeling very restless

2030               chest tightness that turned into adrenaline surge/panic attack, has continued                                        throughout the night

0000               still awake, anxiety 7/10, panic very hard to control, tried walking, breathing, baths

0300               tinnitus 3/10, anxiety 5/10

0400               headache, small vice around head type of feeling, still constant anxiety, like on verge                            of panic attack

0500 (Nov 20). clonaz 0.05mg

0700               panic attack

 

Are these 4 doses correct? You're still taking 0.0625mg at 5 p.m.?

 

If you made a mistake above and are taking 0.05mg at 5 p.m., I would add 0.005mg to the 5 p.m. dose, to make it 0.055mg

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata still taking 0.0625mg at 5pm

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata I’ll have to add it into my 0900 dose if I have it. I’ve been trying to tough it out, but having constant trouble overnight with muscle spasm, weakness and trouble regulating my breathing. 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie decided not to updose, but last night and today I’m having a lot of trouble regulating my breathing. Last night I was waking with shortness of breath, as though I’d just had an apneic spell. Have you heard of this happening?

[Believer]

Hi MedRN,

I experienced this on occasion several months ago when I was severely sensitized.

 

Sorry you too are dealing with all this nastiness. As you figured out, you’re in the right place.

 

Take care

[LotusRising]

@Believer thanks for your reply. Glad I’m not the only one. How long did it last and did you get it checked out at all? 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

That was one of my biggest symptoms and still is. It's perfectly normal unfortunately. And I've found it's worse when I think about it because then I panic over it. Just try to do some deep breathing exercises and stay as calm as you can. What actually helps me the most is a cool mist vaporizer running next to me while I sleep.

 

You're doing ok, remember that it's just these nasty meds.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Believer]

@ MedRN,

It lasted off and for several weeks. No, I didn’t get it checked, I believed it was just another of the crazy symptoms of a sensitized nervous system as it wasn’t something I had ever experienced. All of the providers I have seen have dismissed withdrawal syndrome and suggested I go back up on my Zoloft. I have been at this long enough to just let the symptoms pass unless they persist for quite some time or become alarming. Several months ago I went through a battery of tests and specialists visit, all with no answers and increased stress/anxiety. They have all subsided or improved. I used to work in the medical field and said to say, I dont have any trust in those that I have seen since I started this journey. I do appreciate that they have ruled out other possible causes for my symptoms though. They were all part of WD. 
 

Hang in there!

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Frogie @Believer how did you manage to sleep? I use a difffuser, but maybe I could try the cool mist humidifier. I woke with shortness of breath, followed by panic. I found it to be quite scary and then I wasn’t able to sleep because it kept happening, even though I was clearly very tired. It’s comforting that I’m not the only one. I was worried it might be dangerous somehow. 

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

Like I said what helps me the most is the cool mist vaporizer. And I sleep propped up. I got wedge pillow off Amazon and have 2 pillows on top of that. When it happens I just take a lot of deep breaths and tell myself it will pass. I know it's not fun at all, but hopefully this will pass soon for you. Hang in there.

[LotusRising]

Thank you @FrogieI think I remember it happening when all this stuff started, so hopefully it will pass. 

[Believer]

@MedRN

I wasn’t sleeping much then, maybe 1-2 hours every other night. I was wearing ear plugs 24/7. Most of my senses were overstimulated. I would just lay as calmly as I could and focus on my breathing. I’ve never focused on my breathing so much. 🤣It eventually passed. It wasn’t my strongest symptom so I didn’t give it much attention. I’m sure that helped. Now I’m working on that with the anxiety I now have, that I never had before.

[LotusRising]

@Believer I hear you about focusing on breathing! I feel like it's all I do - I need to find more ways to distract myself. 

[LotusRising]

Nov 20 Notes - Day 3 5% reduction - felt like a lot of withdrawal symptoms today

 

0500             clonaz 0.05mg tab

                      headache, tinnitus, anxiety 5/10

                      constant hunger, shaky, tight muscles/spasms

0700             panic attack x 30mins

0900             clonaz 0.05mg liq

                      chest tightened x 30mins

1130              felt like anxiety building, starting in stomach and up into chest, but passed

1300             clonaz 0.05mg liq

1300-1445   felt chest tighten very quickly, in seconds, persisted into panic attack and then back into chest tightness

1550             tinnitus 3/10, some minor scalp burning/itching

1700             clonaz 0.0625mg

1930             chest tight x 30mins, back and arms tight/spasms, bath and massage helped

2145              in bed

2230-0100   slept, woke with a startled panic with tingling to head. Also, spasms and chest tightness 7/10, felt like chest                        closing in on entire breathing area internally,  scary - had a bath and this helped

0200-0500.  keep startling awake with panic just as I'm falling asleep, as though I'm having periods of apnea, anxiety                               5/10, hard to breathe, all body muscles very tight, had another bath

[Believer]

Your notes sound very similar to what I experienced last Feb-Apr. And your remedies. It does get better. 

[Greatful]

@MedRN

I go through streaks of feel like I am panting and short of breath.  I don't feel like I am not getting enough oxygen just that my breathing is faster and shorter and feel shaky inside. So far it is when I am a wake.  I also get the very weak spells, my arm get so heavy I feel like I can hardly lift them.  Try not to think the worst.  I know easier said then done. 

These chemical sure have put our natural brains and  bodies into a scramble mess.

Have you ever listened to the 

Happiness Frequency: Serotonin, Dopamine, Endorphin Release Music, Binaural Beats Meditation Music on you tube?

It is so relaxing for meditation/and or just sitting in your thoughts

https://youtu.be/LFGsZ6ythQQ