Andrey630: Advice on reinstating lamictal and going off ativan

[Andrey630]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

Except for one dose of olanzapine and a brief trial with lithium, it looks like you've been off all psychiatric drugs except for Ativan since June 16, 2021. Is that correct? 

Hi, yeah I’ve been off the drugs since June. The only thing I started is testosterone shots. My level was super low and the integrative psychiatrist put me on then, saying that low test can increase anxiety. I am too afraid to stop it now as my levels are testing normal now, although other hormones are not.
 

Things were getting progressively worse even during the summer when I wasn’t on any supplements or meds/hormones.

 

When I started the supplements, I didn’t notice any changes.

 

I also don’t notice any changes through the day before and after the supplements. I know that my sleep has been getting better. What I notice is that the more I sleep, the more activated I am the next day, but it’s the whole day.

[Altostrata]

On 1/23/2022 at 3:39 PM, Andrey630 said:

I am currently at ATMC.

 

We do not recommend this facility. However, you are currently under their care. This poses a dilemma for us, as any advice we may give probably is not going to be congruent with what they're telling you. You cannot do both.

 

Please let us know when you are not subject to direction at this facility and you would like counseling here.

[Andrey630]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

We do not recommend this facility. However, you are currently under their care. This poses a dilemma for us, as any advice we may give probably is not going to be congruent with what they're telling you. You cannot do both.

 

Please let us know when you are not subject to direction at this facility and you would like counseling here.

I have never agreed with the approach here for my situation. I have been adamantly telling them that for me any kind of change is not a good idea. I came here out of desperation. I would’ve been dead already otherwise. I am severely distressed. They offered up Ativan and I took it also out of desperation. I have been trying to keep my dose low, but it is starting to fail as well. Not to mention the fact that I have been getting more and more debilitated. It is now even too hard for me to talk to my wife. It is too triggering. I am really at the end of my rope and aside from some miracle intervention I will not survive. I have no idea what to do. 

[Andrey630]

I am on a ton of supplements as well as testosterone and Ativan. I have no stability. The inner akathisia/restlessness is getting really severe again. I am at a functioning level of 5% or less. Everything is completely triggering my alerting system. Everything in my perception. Even my thoughts. Even a song will randomly enter my mind and keeps playing over and over while triggering the nervous system. I am completely unstable and don’t know what to do…

[Daisygirlsk]

in my personal experience ativan worked well for about 3 weeks then made my akathisia 1000 times worse. your first post sounds a lot like me. i had major convulsions and muscle jerking and thought looping as well.

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry you're in such a bad way.

 

20 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

I am on a ton of supplements as well as testosterone and Ativan.

 

As long as you're under care of ATMC or physicians who are adding drugs, we're not going to be able to help you. We can't spend our time sorting through the supplements and drugs they are adding, any of which may be exacerbating your symptoms. You're paying them for care, addressing the results is their job. It's a waste of our volunteer time to counter whatever they're doing. It's like bailing out a boat with a hole in it.

 

If you're taking other drugs such as testosterone, they can be causing your symptoms as well. You have a very active drug history, testosterone doesn't even appear in it. As part of self-care, you need to research the adverse effects of each drug you're taking. Recommend you put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and consider the results.

[Andrey630]

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I'm sorry you're in such a bad way.

 

 

As long as you're under care of ATMC or physicians who are adding drugs, we're not going to be able to help you. We can't spend our time sorting through the supplements and drugs they are adding, any of which may be exacerbating your symptoms. You're paying them for care, addressing the results is their job. It's a waste of our volunteer time to counter whatever they're doing. It's like bailing out a boat with a hole in it.

 

If you're taking other drugs such as testosterone, they can be causing your symptoms as well. You have a very active drug history, testosterone doesn't even appear in it. As part of self-care, you need to research the adverse effects of each drug you're taking. Recommend you put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and consider the results.

I need help! I am on the edge and will not make it without some sort of help. I am in desperate critical condition. The restlessness is so bad. My alerting system is triggered by EVERYTHING. My functioning is at 3% at most. I feel like my limbic system is completely trashed…I am too severely disturbed to leave because any time change in environment causes my symptoms to skyrocket even further. I do not want to be here, but am unable to leave. I will literally lose my life if I don’t get at least a tiny bit of relief.

 

I told them here I do not want to change anything anymore, and they are fine with that. They do not understand sensitization of the nervous system…

 

I am on a ton of stuff, but how do I come off of 20 different supplements?? I also started the testosterone replacement in September…I am sorry I didn’t mention it. It’s hard to concentrate much less remember ALL the things that have happened. I also didn't think it was a drug. How would I even come off of that….I know it might be contributing, but the body doesn’t make testosterone even if there is a tiny amount presented exogenously. I checked Ativan and testosterone on the drug checker…
 

I do need help and don’t know where to turn…I have a 20 month old baby boy who is going to lose a father if I don’t get help. 

[Altostrata]

If you're referring to suicide, those are thoughts. You have to decide if you want to make them into actions. If you don't want to kill yourself, you don't have to decide to do it.

 

My guess is you have antidepressant withdrawal syndrome from going off Lexapro in June 2021, exacerbated by all the psychotropics you've tried since. You might be feeling a little better because for the first time in months, you're not getting a barrage of psychotropics. We often find if people simply stop making drug changes, their nervous systems settle down. 

 

If you stop making drug changes, you'll probably very slowly feel better, despite any adverse effect of the Ativan, as well as testosterone and God knows what else, which still needs to be investigated.

 

On 1/23/2022 at 8:19 PM, Andrey630 said:

I don’t even know anymore…they have me on a supplement protocol here. Magnesium (different kinds), omegas, tryptophan, milk thistle, NAC, glycine, theanine, taurine, endorphigen DPA, CoQ10, vitamin c, niacin, vit b6, digestive enzymes, trace minerals, ashwagandha, a supplement called cortisol manager, different natural tinctures and other combo supplements. Some of these I was taking when I got here…some were added in here. 

 

If I were you, I'd stop everything on this list but magnesium and omega-3s (fish oil), regardless of whatever naturopathic handwaving about them.

 

On 1/23/2022 at 8:19 PM, Andrey630 said:

One thing I will say again is they ran some adrenal panel and it showed my cortisol through the roof at every point in the day. They upped my Cortisol manager supplement and ashwagandha (supposed to control cortisol or something) and my sleep has been slowly getting better. I had a retest of my morning cortisol and it showed a drop. I don’t know if it’s coincidence or the supplements helped that aspect of things….

 

I'm utterly unclear about what's going on here. You say you're improving. Although those cortisol tests are nonsense, if you like this supplement, continue to take it. By the way, this outcome is thoroughly confounded by your taking Ativan at the same time.

 

I feel very uncomfortable being played against ATMC. You're paying for an expensive facility that's supposed to specialize in this stuff, while you imply they're forcing you to do this or that. It would take hours of my unpaid time to unravel what's going on, including what you're actually taking now and your current symptoms. Meanwhile, if you don't trust them, why don't you leave?

[Andrey630]

I came here out of desperation. My condition is very severe. I am scared to leave because the restlessness (akathisia if it’s even that) and constant non-stop fight or flight activation is so severe that I literally cannot do anything and my symptoms get even worse with changes in environment.  They’re not forcing me to take anything. I know they can’t help me and they just say I’m a complex case. If I said I don’t want to take supplements, they would be okay with that because they see the at it’s not helping.

I am asking for help because I am desperate. I don’t know how to stabilize my nervous system. I’m scared to stop all the supplements I’m on cold turkey. Wouldn’t stopping all of them upset my body and nervous system even more?

 

I’m not trying to play any one against anyone…I just need help. Every second of existence is just agonizing. If I try to go for a walk, my body/mind screams to stop and my symptoms get more severe. I am able to eat, but it’s frantic and rushed. Every moment just has this feeling of needing to be over and moving on, but there is nothing to move on to. It’s torturous…My condition is very severe (I am literally only able to lie in bed in complete agony because every other thing/activity in my entire perception sends my nervous system into a spin out) and I don’t know what to do…

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What was the original reason that you started taking psychiatric drugs back in 2007?

[Andrey630]

59 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  What was the original reason that you started taking psychiatric drugs back in 2007?

I was very shy in high school and when I went to college, it turned into social anxiety and that led to severe depression. I dropped out and came home and started seeing a therapist. She quickly told me to go to a psychiatrist because I had a neuro-chemical imbalance. I got on meds and got better pretty quickly (within a month) and after a few months of therapy my social anxiety got immensely better, my depression resolved and I resumed my life. On the meds, I had no side effects (other than suspected bruxism) and felt stable other than depressive episodes throughout, but I feel like that’s normal life stuff. They would come and go and I would never be impacted functioning-wise. I would feel down about things, but was still living a full life and enjoying it. 

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for answering my question.

 

23 minutes ago, Andrey630 said:

She quickly told me to go to a psychiatrist because I had a neuro-chemical imbalance.

 

This is a myth.  The theory about chemical imbalance in the brain was proven wrong many decades ago.

 

24 minutes ago, Andrey630 said:

I got on meds and got better pretty quickly (within a month) and after a few months of therapy my social anxiety got immensely better, my depression resolved and I resumed my life.

 

The drugs did not cure the thing that you went on the drug for.  All they do is numb your emotions.

 

2 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

I am scared to leave because the restlessness (akathisia if it’s even that) and constant non-stop fight or flight activation is so severe that I literally cannot do anything and my symptoms get even worse with changes in environment.

 

Q:  Have you been at the ATMC for 6 weeks now? 

 

If yes, then that is a long time.  My thought is that even though they are not helping you, you believe that you are in a safe environment.

 

As I grew up I did not have any interaction with babies.  When I had my first child back in 1980 I spent 1 week in the hospital after having a caesarian.  These days they have you out in a few days.  When I left the hospital it felt very strange because I had been is a safe environment, with nurses to help me if I needed it.  It was scary and when I left the hospital the outside world seemed very large.

 

I realise that you are experiencing bad physical symptoms which I wasn't.  But I do think you need to get out of the Centre and get back to your home.  I understand that the process of getting there will stressful for you, but I don't think being in the Centre is helpful for you and is probably adding stress that you don't realise.  At least at home you will be in your own surroundings.  Are you able to get in home help for a short time, especially if your wife is not home during the day?

 

Over a short period of time your brain has been trying to cope with a lot of different drugs/supplements because the brain is always trying to regain homeostatis or factory settings.

 

Anyway, just some things for you to consider.

 

I imagine that you are much stronger than you believe you are.  Think about what achievements you have had in your life.  We all have things that we have not wanted to do but have no choice and then we make up our minds to do it and manage it.

 

And you only have to do it once.

 

[Shep]

On 1/25/2022 at 12:42 PM, Andrey630 said:

Hi, yeah I’ve been off the drugs since June. The only thing I started is testosterone shots. My level was super low and the integrative psychiatrist put me on then, saying that low test can increase anxiety. I am too afraid to stop it now as my levels are testing normal now, although other hormones are not.
 

 

Please add the testosterone shots to your signature. It will be helpful to have that in the timeline.

 

Your signature is here:

 

Account Settings - Create or Edit Your Signature

 

Quote

2021 June 16 took last dose
2021 March- MDMA with a therapist
2021 April-June  mdma + mushrooms, microdosing psilocybin (stopped this in Early May). 
2021 Late July- oct. I started regular ketamine treatments every 3.5 days

 

You were off the psychiatric drugs June 2021, but you had already had MDMA, mushrooms, and microdosing. And after stopping all of this, you went through a series of ketamine treatments. 

 

When did the akathisia start? 

[Happy2Heal]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:39 PM, Andrey630 said:

I just don’t understand why as time goes on, things have been worse and worse…is that something others experience? In the summer months I was still able to work and went on a small vacation. In the fall, I felt worse, but was still able to be home (and had windows of relief). I would go for lots of walks and spend whatever time I had relief with my baby boy. But I kept getting worse and worse…I would definitely have reinstated in the summer had I known that I would keep deteriorating….Is there a point when things stop  getting worse?

 

Hi just jumping in here to answer ta few of your questions: Yes it is common to feel relatively ok for some time before the bad symptoms of WD set in. And  YES there IS a point where things stop getting worse.  You sound like you are there already. So be encouraged that the only way to go from here is UP as you likely can't go any further down.

 

The hardest part but also the most effective way to handle WD and recovery is to come to a place of acceptance of the symptoms along with the realization that it will take some time to recover. The process will be gradual but it DOES HAPPEN.  Your brain is doing a LOT of work to recover and undo what the drugs have done, and the process of it healing causes uncomfortable symptoms.

Try to see them for what they are: PROOF of your brain doing the work to heal.

You may need to re frame a LOT of what you are going thru too see things in more realistic and positive terms. Even though your SYMPTOM of incredible panic may make you believe that there is something terribly wrong, you will need to constantly reassure yourself that there really IS NOTHING WRONG. you are safe.  You are HEALING and that is GOOD.

 

many if not most of us have been where you are. We know what you are going thru even if we did not have the exact same symptoms, we had our own set of them to handle. The ones you describe are very common. 

 

 

On 1/23/2022 at 7:43 PM, Andrey630 said:

I had ZERO side effects from any medications in my entire life. Antidepressants, antihistamines, sedatives, opiates, anesthesia, etc. I very occasionally smoked pot, I drank when I wanted, tried cocaine once (I know stupid), did hallucinogenics a couple times when I was in my twenties all without any side effects. That’s why when the symptoms started in the summer, I thought they would subside within a couple months, not get worse over the course of a year….

 

 

You may not have had any symptoms or side effects from all those drugs and things but they still had an effect on your body  and your  brain.  I had over 4 decades on multiple meds with a similar feeling, that they didn't really cause me any issues (but in hindsight I see that they did)  this long history may or may not have contributed to your current distress, there's really no way to know. But I understand the shock when you think you've been more or less bullet proof for years and years to suddenly have an issue getting off a drug. It's hard to wrap your mind around at first.

 

The hardest thing I had to get off of was the lexapro

It is indeed a very strong drug and the dose you were on exceeds what the company that makes it says is the highest effective dose (30 mgs) and that there is NO benefit to going up higher. I found this out when my dr  RXed 40 mgs and one of my insurances paid for it but a new insurance looked into it and refused for the very reason I just cited, even the manufacturer said that  there was no reason to go that high.

I am so very sorry that you were so  poorly treated.

 

 

as far as your thinking about how you will survive this: that is very much under your control, even though it does not feel that way. I know, I was where you are now. I learned to live one moment at a time and just get thru that moment and not look ahead, nor back

 

realize that the feeling of panic and extreme fear and anxiety and maybe even dread, those are just feelings. They are not rooted in reality, there is nothing scary going on. The feelings can't harm you, you are in no danger. It feels awful, yes but there are times when we all feel awful. It is lasting a long time, yes, but you only have to  deal with the present moment of awful. Not the one before and not the one that may come. Things always change and what you are feeling now is GOING TO CHANGE and it is going to get better. That is what happens for pretty much ALL OF US.  We RECOVER. You have to believe that and know that you've got a bright future ahead. You will look back and this will all be in the past. It will. 

 

it really helps to try to accept where you are. you don't have to like what you are going thru but if you can find a way to accept it, and let it be, it will make it a bit more tolerable.  I know it is hard, it is very hard but I think you've got the strength inside you to do that.

 

{For what it's worth, I would consider  a small reinstatement of the lexapro, a very small amnt. as suggested already (NOT 5mgs)  you can always wait and go up a wee bit, but if the tiny reinstatement suddenly makes rocks the boat, it's much less likely to throw you over board than going on a higher dose. Make sense?}

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

@Andrey630, here's the problem. You're an inpatient and do not appear to have control over your drugs. If we suggest you do something, you'd have to discuss it with the ATMC staff. They may or may not agree. They may or may not add or cut you off from some drug or supplement. You'd have to argue with them, then you'd come back and talk about it with us. And so on.

 

For example, what if we told you that you're probably taking TOO MUCH Ativan, and reducing it probably would be helpful? Who is giving you the Ativan? Would they agree to a different dosing schedule at different amounts? Who would mix up your drug suspensions, should liquid tapering be involved?

 

What if it looks like whatever testosterone you're taking might be a problem? Who has control over that?

 

18 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

I’m scared to stop all the supplements I’m on cold turkey.

 

Not knowing all the supplements you're on, I can't say what you may stop cold turkey. Most are useless, but you might have something hiding in there, like phenibut or a glandular, that could be a problem. But I have no interest in donating my time to figuring this stuff out if my hard work might be superseded by somebody's bright idea at ATMC.

 

We cannot work like this. We decline to work with anyone who is an inpatient and does not have control over their drug intake. We always tell them to come back when they have control over their drugs.

 

Further, if you want an immediate fix, this is the wrong site for you. We're about minimizing drugs. The methods we follow often require weeks or months of careful dosage adjustment, while your nervous system gradually settles down. I cannot see how you can possibly do this while taking direction from ATMC.

[Andrey630]

@Altostrata Of course I am in control of my meds. They are doing whatever I ask. I asked for a liquid solution of Ativan from a compounding pharmacy at .25mg/ml and they got it for me, because I said cutting a tiny pill in half was too imprecise. I can take or not take any supplements at any meds at any time. Same goes for supplements. They are not forcing me to do/take anything and are very obliging to anything I ask for in terms of meds. I am just taking it all because I am desperate for some relief and stability.

 

I am here because my state is too severe to be at home. I don’t know how else to covey that I am severely incapacitated, acutely suicidal and in extreme distress. I reached out here hoping for some support and guidance…

[Altostrata]

Please put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and post the link to it in this topic.

 

 

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[Andrey630]

On 1/27/2022 at 5:31 PM, Altostrata said:

Please put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and post the link to it in this topic.

 

 

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

I am only on two:

 

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1488-899,2167-0

 

I am not even well enough to take notes because my condition is so severely debilitated. Everything is triggering most of the day. I can tell you I take the .25 Ativan at 10PM every night along with some supplements. I take my testosterone on Monday morning and Thursday at 10PM.

 

Every evening I get a headache and pressure around my jaw like my head is in a vice. My ears clog up. This has been consistent since starting Ativan. 

 

Nothing I take corresponds to better or worse states. I have been on the same regiment for a while and my states are erratic, but for the most part the severe restlessness and crazy anxiety about nothing (that’s an understatement) are just always there and I don’t know how I make it to evening. My sleep is also all over the place. One night I got 6 hours, which is crazy, but most night I get 3. I go to sleep at exactly the same time and practice good sleep hygiene, but still sometimes I fall asleep within an hour and sometimes it takes a few hours to actually fall asleep. 
 

 

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Andrey630 said:

Every evening I get a headache and pressure around my jaw like my head is in a vice. My ears clog up. This has been consistent since starting Ativan. 

 

Does this happen before or after you take 0.25mg Ativan at 10 p.m.? How long have you been taking 0.25mg at 10 p.m.? Your signature says you take 0.5mg.

 

When did you start testosterone?

 

1 hour ago, Andrey630 said:

One night I got 6 hours, which is crazy, but most night I get 3. I go to sleep at exactly the same time and practice good sleep hygiene, but still sometimes I fall asleep within an hour and sometimes it takes a few hours to actually fall asleep. 

 

Need to see if this fluctuation is related to your twice-weekly testosterone. Did you review testosterone adverse effects? See https://www.drugs.com/sfx/testosterone-side-effects.html#professional

 

Quote

 

Common (1% to 10%): Headache, vertigo (topical testosterone)

Common (1% to 10%): Irritability, insomnia, mood swings, aggression,

 

 

[Andrey630]

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Does this happen before or after you take 0.25mg Ativan at 10 p.m.? How long have you been taking 0.25mg at 10 p.m.? Your signature says you take 0.5mg.

 

When did you start testosterone?

 

 

Need to see if this fluctuation is related to your twice-weekly testosterone. Did you review testosterone adverse effects? See https://www.drugs.com/sfx/testosterone-side-effects.html#professional

 

 

The Ativan side effects come on around 7-8pm and go away after I take the Ativan. My wife is helping me from home with a lot of things including the signature…I am on .25mg of Ativan.

 

My sleep pattern is random and does not correlate to the shots. I have been taking it since September. The 6 hours I got one night was more than I have gotten since summer. It was a one time occurrence 😔. Most night 3 or so hours, but falling asleep varies. 
 

I have been on testosterone replacement before and had absolute no side effects; only positive changes. I stopped it foolishly a couple years ago. I know that obviously in withdrawal, all bets are off though…

 

I am so severely debilitated and living in hell. I do not possess the descriptive skills to accurately portray the hell I go through, but it’s like I have PTSD from literally everything in my perception. Walks, talking, lying down, watching TV, reading, meditating, thoughts, any activity you can think of as a human being are all too difficult because they cause incredible panic and the restlessness gets worse and worse. I just lie in bed and suffer.

 

The state is so distressing, except after I take the Ativan, i experience enough relief to get to sleep. 
 

i am wondering if I should drop all my supplements except for fish oil and magnesium. Would that be severely disruptive to my system?

[Shep]

6 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

The Ativan side effects come on around 7-8pm and go away after I take the Ativan. My wife is helping me from home with a lot of things including the signature…I am on .25mg of Ativan.

 

 

This is a classic symptom of interdose withdrawal from the benzo. Moderator Frogie mentioned splitting out the dose earlier in your thread. The daytime anxiety is in part due to going into interdose Ativan withdrawal during the day. 

 

On 1/27/2022 at 7:57 AM, Shep said:

You were off the psychiatric drugs June 2021, but you had already had MDMA, mushrooms, and microdosing. And after stopping all of this, you went through a series of ketamine treatments. 

 

When did the akathisia start? 

 

I don't think you saw my question from yesterday. 

 

We need to know:

 

• When the akathisia started
• When you dropped from .5 mg Ativan (which is in your signature) to .25 mg Ativan
• The date you started testosterone this last time

 

[Andrey630]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

We need to know:

 

• When the akathisia started
• When you dropped from .5 mg Ativan (which is in your signature) to .25 mg Ativan
• The date you started testosterone this last time

 

The akathisia didn’t really start linearly, but I sort of started to consider it inner akathisia probably in early November. In the summer I had extreme anxiety, but a bunch of other acute symptoms overshadowed it (Really bad DP/DR, this feeling that the world was about to blow up, dread, etc). In August, I noticed that I had a certain restlessness and was always agitated and couldn’t settle down, but it would come in waves and I was still able to watch tv, go for walks, etc. That feeling just kept getting more and more intense and I became extremely suicidal at which point I went to a psychological treatment center in Los Angeles to get a handle on all my symptoms (the month of October). I remember at the time, a lot of walking. I would walk for hours in the evening. After I checked out, the restlessness/agitation got really severe and at the beginning of November, I started having to have these body convulsion attacks to get it out. Those states were extremely distressing and happened for varying lengths of time (20min-2hr), but afterward I would feel a little relief and back to a more manageable extreme restlessness/agitation state. As time went on, the relief wouldn’t come. By the time I arrived at this facility, I was severely suicidal. They suggested Ativan and my state was so bad that if I hadn’t taken it, I would’ve jumped the fence and ran into traffic. I read about people getting severe akathisia and jumping out of windows or in front of trains, and that was how intense it was for me. I couldn’t think straight other than my

head needed to be split open by a fast hard object so I could make it stop.

 

I do not remember the exact date I started my testosterone shots, but it was sometime in late September.

 

Ativan: I got hospitalized for suicide for 3 days from this place right after Christmas. I was given Ativan in varying doses because of the high stress of being held against my will. On the Sunday night I got hospitalized, I was given 1.5mg. Then for the rest of the days I was there I took .5mg at 9am and at .5mg at 9pm. When I got back here, I am not exactly sure how/when I got down to .25mg at night. My memory does not work at all and all days blur together. I think I suffered through not taking it in the morning a few days, then a few days after that cut my night dose in half. That’s the best I can do as far as recalling it. It’s been a month that I’ve been on this low dose, but I am in no way stable.

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Given your variable drug intake over the last year, your historical symptom pattern is confounded by all the drug changes, plus the testosterone.

 

What we see currently is a pattern of adverse effects from Ativan. 6 days ago, @Frogie gave you a way to resolve them:

 

On 1/23/2022 at 2:00 PM, Frogie said:

 

You might also split your Ativan into two doses and take them about 12 hours apart. That may help also. You would cut your dosage in 1/2 and move 1/2 of it an hour each day until you got it where you wanted it. So, if you take it at 8 am, you would take 1/2 your dosage at 8 am, then the other 1/2 at 9 am, and then next day at 10 am, and further until you get to the time you want it. Maybe 8 pm, that would be 12 hours apart.

 

Let me know what you think and will be happy to help you.

 

Please let us know your progress in managing your benzo dosing.

 

Testosterone, an anabolic steroid, can cause depression, anxiety, and suicidality, as well as muscle aches and pains. Its half-life would cause a peak in effect about 48 days after a shot. From one shot in September, you might not know the dosage was too high until the emergence of adverse effects in November. If you had intervening shots, the increase in drug blood level would compound the adverse effects.

 

Very likely that many of your symptoms treated as psychiatric have been caused by the drugs you've been taking for 14 years. Strongly suggest you stop trying to find a drug to fix your problems.

 

May I also add that if ATMC cannot recognize adverse effects from benzos, they should not be in the business of prescribing them.

[Andrey630]

@Altostrata Please….you have to understand. My state is so severe and distressing that if I didn’t take that Ativan when I got here, I would be dead already. Please try to have some

compassion and understanding about this….I have had a lot struggles in the past. This is some otherworldly level of hell. When the restlessness/agitation/akathisia gets so extreme, nothing is available to me except for the thought of ending the pain as quickly as possible. I am completely non-functional and in a state of distress and fight or flight all the time. This isn’t “my anxiety or depression is out of control, but I can still read or go for a walk or meditate.” I literally have no respite or relief from this severe distress. You yourself used lamotrigine to help with some of your symptoms back when you were recovering. The Ativan is why I am still able to make it.
 

I am angry at ATMC psychiatry for not trying LITERALLY anything else other than a benzo. Or at least giving me one with a longer half life.

 

As far as testosterone, I thought it’s half-life was 8 days. I’m not saying it’s not contributing to my symptoms, but what do you recommend? Just dropping it? 
 

would it be safe to drop all the supplements I am on?

 

@Frogie  I am afraid that splitting my dose up will cause more insomnia (I’m already at 3 hrs) since I won’t have peak level of the drug in the evening. Can this happen from doing a dose split?

[Frogie]

@Andrey630

 

Splitting your dose of Ativan will keep in your bloodstream at an even level. It wears off between 6-8 hours. Taking it twice a day keeps it in your system longer.

[Andrey630]

5 minutes ago, Frogie said:

@Andrey630

 

Splitting your dose of Ativan will keep in your bloodstream at an even level. It wears off between 6-8 hours. Taking it twice a day keeps it in your system longer.

Hi frogie,

 

I understand the logic behind the even level of the drug in my system, but I am wondering if the split will reduce the peak blood level at bed time and will prevent me from falling asleep. Is that a possibility?

[Frogie]

@Andrey630

 

If you take it at bed time there should be no effect. 

[Andrey630]

4 minutes ago, Frogie said:

@Andrey630

 

If you take it at bed time there should be no effect. 

I apologize, I just want to make sure we’re on the same page. Splitting the dose will even put my blood level throughout the day, BUT it will cause the peak blood level to be lower. After I take the .25 dose at night, it is probably my most bearable and calm time and that’s why I’m able to go to sleep (I think). If I have that evening peak reduced, I’m worried I won’t get calm enough to sleep. I just want to make sure you’re saying that’s not going to happen.

 

P.S. What if I wanted to switch to klonopin or Valium? Those have a longer half life right?

[Andrey630]

I wish I had found this site before I tapered anything. I would’ve done things right and avoided this nightmare….😔

[Frogie]

@Andrey630

 

If you could switch to Valium that would be even better, But you can't just a switch. It has to be done over several days. Valium will stay in your system up to 200 hours

[JesusSavemefromWD]

I am sorry to interfere but it blows my mind (whatever part Zoloft has left intact) how is it possible to pay this facility to help you with lexapro WD and they don’t even realize a person can go into inter-dose withdrawal from taking once per day Ativan dose? Since u mentioned you thankfully do have control over the drugs ur taking I think switching to Valium is a great suggestion, that is if they know in this facility the equivalent dose and the fact  that you have to switch slowly 

[Andrey630]

1 hour ago, Frogie said:

@Andrey630

 

If you could switch to Valium that would be even better, But you can't just a switch. It has to be done over several days. Valium will stay in your system up to 200 hours

would you be able to coach me on it? I am so out of it…they will do whatever I want, but I know nothing about Valium. And I do not trust the psych dept here AT ALL.

 

@JesusSavemefromWD Trust me I was furious to find out that this facility doesn’t even have any tapering protocols and they are claiming to be specialists in getting people off meds. The psychiatrist told me I could taper Ativan by skipping days since the pills are too small to cut…right after I told him about intradose withdrawals 😔

[JesusSavemefromWD]

1 minute ago, Andrey630 said:

would you be able to coach me on it? I am so out of it…they will do whatever I want, but I know nothing about Valium. And I do not trust the psych dept here AT ALL.

 

@JesusSavemefromWD Trust me I was furious to find out that this facility doesn’t even have any tapering protocols and they are claiming to be specialists in getting people off meds. The psychiatrist told me I could taper Ativan by skipping days since the pills are too small to cut…right after I told him about intradose withdrawals 😔

Oh my God…. This is unbelievable… but don’t think about it now, I am hoping @Frogiewho is a benzo tapering expert will be able to guide you through this switch. I understand you are severely disabled by lexapro WD but Ativan interdose WD makes everything worst 

hang in there, I understand ur symptoms very well, I have them myself….

[Altostrata]

@Andrey630 are you sleeping? What is your sleep pattern? That is a key piece of information. This is why we would like 24 hours of notes. We're going on very little evidence without it. This is all we know:

 

22 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

The Ativan side effects come on around 7-8pm and go away after I take the Ativan.

....

My sleep pattern is random and does not correlate to the shots.

 

From this, we surmise that you have interdose withdrawal from Ativan. If you take TOO MUCH Ativan, even once a day, you can also have a paradoxical reaction, such as it will keep you from sleeping. We see this all the time here.

 

If you gave us the daily notes as requested, we could confirm what effect your Ativan dosing has on you. Unlike your highly paid consultants, we prefer to have information before making a guess about what you should do.

 

22 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

i am wondering if I should drop all my supplements except for fish oil and magnesium. Would that be severely disruptive to my system?

 

I believe I commented on the supplements you had mentioned earlier? 

 

Not knowing the full roster of whatever they're giving you at ATMC, we can't say if you should quit all of them, there might be a benzo relative hiding in them.

 

You might not have any kind of withdrawal syndrome at this point, but adverse effects from the drugs and other stuff you're taking.

 

[Andrey630]

@Altostrata I will try really hard to get some notes down. 
 

i can tell you a out my sleep: i take my ativan and night supplements at 10PM every night. I get to bed within 15 minutes. It takes me varying amounts of time to fall asleep: 15 minutes to 3 hours. The amount of sleep I get is also varied from 3-6 hours, although most of the time it’s 3-4. The 6 hours only happened once and that was a huge surprise. I wake up in the middle of the night and have physical agitation where I have to keep moving in bed. I dose in and out for 30-45 minute increments for the rest of the night until I get out of bed at 9:30-10.

 

@Frogie It would be great if you offered some guidance with switching over to Valium. I know you have a lot of experience and good advice. 

[Frogie]

@Andrey630

 

With you being in the center, we have no idea what/how many supplements you are on.

 

If you can list all the supplements, doses and how many times a day you take it. Then list all the medications you are taking and I can discuss it with the other moderators and see what we can do for you.