jonah2001: last dose duloxetine 6 1/2 month ago

[Erimus]

Sometimes the worst days are deep healing and are often followed by improvements. I’ve noticed that when I have extreme fatigue it is my nervous system making a big change.

[jonah2001]

@Ariel

@Erimus

@Altostrata

@Armorall

@KenA

Hello, thank you very much for your comprehensive answer.

 First of all, I have to say that I am indeed noticing improvements. Looking back three months, I very rarely had days that were even remotely good. Now I have a lot of tolerable days, which are not particularly good, but not particularly bad either. However, I also have more and more days when I feel quite good, sometimes even normal. Now over the weekend I've had a day or a half where I've felt pretty much like I used to. I had rarely any symptoms for five hours. I had the same thing two days ago.

I felt good for a whole day. And if I can feel good for one day, then I will feel good for 1-2 days, and so on...

To come back to your observations, you are absolutely right, the emotions or the waves change how we see the world. When I'm in a wave, I feel like it's always going to be bad, it's never going to be good, and I'm not making progress.

However, it is usually much better a few hours later.

 

In fact, emotions have such a powerful impact on our brain that they can even alter memory.

When I'm sad/depressed, I only remember sad moments in my life. However, when I'm positive and full of optimism, I think everything would ALWAYS be good.

 Thus, emotions have a world-changing or reality-distorting effect. Of course, this healing process is not linear at all and that's the bad part.

Sometimes I have a really good day.

The next day I feel bad again. Sometimes symptoms come back.

 For me the dizziness was no longer a problem for two months now.

It’s been back for five days. But I now know that it is not a linear healing process.

It's not like a bone that once it's grown together doesn't fall apart, but it goes up and down with an upward trend.

 However, I now know that I will heal.

Another point is that I am currently in conversation with doctors/researchers here in Germany who have actually taken on Protracted Withdrawal Syndrome and are doing research on it.

These doctors have already accompanied many people through the "withdrawal" and they have come to the realization that all people heal and that it doesn't take "forever" for most of them.

 

An interesting observation I want to share with you is that withdrawal often follows a specific pattern.

 It is often the case that patients do poorly for the first six months or so, but then worsen again between months 6-10.

However, after the deterioration that occurs between months 6 and 10, there is continued improvement. Most patients recover fully between 17 and 24 months.

Anyway, thank you for your great answer. And we will all be healed. With that in mind, I wish you a nice day.

If I can have one "normal" day, I can have 2. And so on!!

 

We're all going to get through this withdrawal, or what the doctors call it, going from drugged brain to drug-less brain.

I will heal and write a success story!!

[thenextguy]

1 minute ago, jonah2001 said:

First of all, I have to say that I am indeed noticing improvements.

 

Yessss! This is great to hear, @jonah2001. When you're in the middle of terrible withdrawals, sometimes it's hard to believe you will get better. But you will get better! 

 

When I think back to how I was feeling last fall I can't believe how far I've come. Still getting better, but so much better than back then. 

[Ariel]

@jonah2001

Great to read another post from you reflecting such a healthy, constructive mindset!

 

1 hour ago, jonah2001 said:

Another point is that I am currently in conversation with doctors/researchers here in Germany who have actually taken on Protracted Withdrawal Syndrome and are doing research on it.

Good for you! 

 

Can you recommend any of these doctors/researchers by name? 

SA has a help topic dedicated to collecting recommendations for doctors, therapists, and clinics that might be helpful in tapering and diagnosing withdrawal syndrome. If you trust these physicians you're in conversation with, would you consider adding their names to this thread? 

There are many other members in Germany, present and future, who may benefit. 

 

1 hour ago, jonah2001 said:

I will heal and write a success story!!

 

That's the spirit! Looking forward to it <3

 

[Armorall]

@jonah2001That is wonderful, wonderful news!!! I'm so glad. And also glad to hear that doctors in Germany are researching it. If any media comes of it, please send me info if possible. Best wishes on your journey, you sound so good!!! Thank you for tagging me in this! 

[jonah2001]

Hey, 

@Armorall

@Ariel

@thenextguy 

 

thank you guys  for your reply. 

The brain is healing..  it's just an incredible wired process. 

I will tell you in detail about the doctors and researchers in the coming days. I'm in a wave today, so I don't have the mental energy to write great text.

 

In the last 6-8 weeks many physical complaints such as dizziness, tinnitus and muscle cramps have disappeared.
But now they've all come back. Is that normal?
I'm now afraid that symptoms that have actually disappeared will come back again and again.
Those of you who are now on the other side, how did your symptoms go away? Have you had any symptoms that you thought you were done with?

 

[Ninabird]

@jonah2001

Jonah,

I read your entire thread. You’ve been put through the ringer! You hung in and I’m so excited for you! 
I hope you give yourself lots of high fives! What you went through was beyond hell but here you are…. Recovering! 
May your future be window filled my friend. 
 

much love 

Ninabird. 

[jonah2001]

Hey,

@Ninabird.. 

Thank you so much for your answer. Yes it's an absolute hellish process.. Nobody,( only you guys), can understand how terrible WD is..

But it will come to an end.. I mean when i look back a couple of month (3 month).. i rarely had a window.. And now i have them, even up to a day! So why shouldn't I recover..

And other symptoms like muscle cramps i have windows up to a week or longer.. so yes, i am recovering..

I mean: @Armorall @KenA both recovered. You guys are motivating me each and every ******* day!! Thank you guys so much.

 

And next year at that time, i will have posted my success story here in this forum!!

 

[Armorall]

@jonah2001 it's seriously so wonderful to hear! Thank you for posting! 

[KenA]

@jonah2001You are doing amazing! Keep on taking it one day at a time until you are healed as well my friend!! You've got this!

[jonah2001]

@Ariel

@Erimus

@Armorall

@KenA

 

Hey guys I have no idea how but I made it to the one year mark! And one thing I have to say: the terrible mental symptoms are improving. I'm far from the other side, but I'll get there eventually.

This month an old symptom resurfaced, the dizziness.. but this is only my brain adapting to a new fix it made..

 

Things seem to be heading in the right direction..
I'm really excited to see how I'll be in 6-10 months.

 

I still have the following symptoms: Tiredness/dizziness

 

Mental symptoms (getting better).
muscle cramps (barely present)

 

intrusive thoughts.(getting less in intensity, or i am getting used to them)

 

So yes, i will get the person i was before this whole bullsh*t! 

 

It's just a terrible frustrating waiting game! 

 

[Ninabird]

11 minutes ago, jonah2001 said:

So yes, i will get the person i was before this whole bullsh*t! 

@jonah2001Jonah, this is fantastic! I am bouncing in my seat for you! I can't wait to be in my own shoes again some day. Big high five to you!

[Ariel]

@jonah2001

Congratulations on making it to the 1-year mark! 

Very well done on all your hard work. 

 

It's great to read your update, thank you for sharing. 

You're doing an awesome job, jonah. 

 

5 hours ago, jonah2001 said:

Things seem to be heading in the right direction..
I'm really excited to see how I'll be in 6-10 months.

 

Yes! What a fantastic outlook!

So glad you are seeing improvements and maintaining a positive attitude. 

 

This is a hard thing to deal with, as you say it can be "a terrible frustrating waiting game".

You're doing an excellent job of getting through it and figuring out ways to manage. 

Give yourself lots of credit for your efforts!

 

Healing is happening <3

A.

[Erimus]

Incredible achievement @jonah2001! I’m sure the worst will be behind you and you will turn the corner soon.

[jonah2001]

@Ninabird

@Erimus

@Ariel

 

Thank you guy's so much for your answers!

Yes, thing's are trending in the right direction. I have more and more day's where I don't feel terrible, but also not great. 

 

The only thing, what is very frustrating is the WD fatigue and my vegetative nervous System. 

I mean I am more and more mentally feeling like I can "start" again with live. 

 

But the fatigue and vegetative problems are very annoying. 

 

I mean, I am 21 year's old.. the only thing I want to do is live Life!! 

I want to workout again, study and many more.. 

 

So it's like a trap, because I know that I have to patient for an even longer time! 

 

But I think in the next 7-10 month I will get to that point! 

 

And that's not terrible long anymore 

 

[Ariel]

@jonah2001

 

11 minutes ago, jonah2001 said:

the only thing I want to do is live Life!! 

11 minutes ago, jonah2001 said:

So it's like a trap, because I know that I have to patient for an even longer time! 

 

I hear you! 

 

Patience can be a real challenge. 

I don't have any tips or tricks or wisdom to offer. 

 

All I can say is that this is why I like how in English we say to "practice" patience. Because it takes practice! And as far as I know nobody has ever won a gold medal at the Patience Olympics and then retired and stopped practicing... Or I guess if they did stop practicing patience, they'd get "out of shape" and become impatient again, and then would have to go back to practicing patience. (Maybe my metaphor got a bit muddled there, but I trust you get what I mean.)

 

We all just have to keep practicing and practicing. 

 

You're doing an excellent job, though. I'm happy to give you a gold medal for all your hard work thus far. 

Keep going, keep practicing, and you will eventually be able to give yourself the biggest, shiniest, most impressive gold medal of all: Recovery!

And living a beautiful, vibrant, meaningful life in health and vigor. 

 

Healing is happening <3

 

 

[jonah2001]

@Ariel Thank you so much for your answer. 

I am in a terrible wave and feel like many month ago.. I don't know what I happening, I was doing so much better lately. 

 

Did you guys @KenA @Armorall experienced similar?

 

I am so scared, that I will have the same setback, like in March, April... It was horrible at those times.. I am very very scared..

 

 

[KenA]

@jonah2001 Yep, many many of them. Good ole non-linear healing at it's finest. Just keep hanging in there! This too shall pass!

[Ariel]

@jonah2001

Hang in there, jonah. 

This wave will pass just as every wave before this one has passed. You've made it through before and you will make it through this time, too. 

This is temporary. Just do your best to get through the moments and hours and days, as you have many times before. 

Healing is happening <3
Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously feel it. 

Sending you a hug <3

[Moonpie]

@jonah2001 I am sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. This is definitely not on our bucket list of fun things to do. I am going through the same thing. I try  just keep working reminding myself and with the help of others when falter that it will pass it always does just like @Ariel said.  Another thing I try to keep telling myself is the bad times is when we are healing so every day is A-day closer to that. I know it's just discouraging.  Hang in there you are not alone. You have so many that are on the journey with you and care. Like me.

[Erimus]

Just another blip in the road Jonah. Keep going mate!

[jonah2001]

@KenA

@Ariel

@Erimus

@Moonpie

 

Hey guy's, thank you so much for answering. I am feeling a little bit better now:) Definitely not as good as I felt in my windows.. but those waves are coming, saying hello.. reaching there peak.. and go away. 

 

I am just asking my self how long this bullsh*t will last 😅 I mean I know it takes time, lot's of energy and patience.. but I really hope that this want be forever..  

 

How things are improving:

I get more and more days where I don't feel terrible (okay, most of the day.. but also know that I am not my old self (terms of energy and mental feelings).. 

Did you guys experienced a similar pattern? 

 

And I am young, I want to study and live.. I try to live my life in the best possible way.. but I see there is still a road in front of me.. 

 

Guy's like @KenA also made it through that bullsh*t.. how would you say, that things improved over time? 

 

I mean I see that I get the hard times less often, but when they come they are still very frustrating and hard.. 

 

[Moonpie]

51 minutes ago, jonah2001 said:

I get more and more days where I don't feel terrible (okay, most of the day.. but also know that I am not my old self (terms of energy and mental feelings).. 

Did you guys experienced a similar pattern

 You are doing good then. I think it's hard the acceptance of not being like we want to be right away. But be able to just go with the flow and know you will be someday helps take away some of the frustration. I still have patterns like that now.

 

52 minutes ago, jonah2001 said:

And I am young, I want to study and live.. I try to live my life in the best possible way.. but I see there is still a road in front of me..

 I understand what you are saying. Youth is on your side. I am old, and don't know how many more years I might have and I want to be able to enjoy them. Yes yes there is a road in front of you and you are healing. Don't give up hang in there try to focus on the windows and the moment you are feeling good. Someday there will be no waves

[jonah2001]

@Moonpie

Thank you so much for answering! And on the other side I don't understand this the way my brain heals?! 

 

Some symptoms come and go over the course of the day multiple times.. so it could be that I get very fatigue and dizzy, only to get fatigue 4 hours later for 25 minutes. Is this normal, and is this a good sign? 

 

It's ******* anyoying, knowing that I will get dizzy and fatigue multiple times a day. So it's very hard to just do something.. because I never know when it will happen. 

 

@KenAyou also had that.. how did your symptoms changed from that, to being healed?  

 

All my symptoms work like that: Come stay there a little bit fade away.. only to come again view hours later.. how will I heal, or see that I am improving? 

 

Or it could be that my symptoms are like that: (10 is the strongest) :

1,2,2,2,3,4,3,2,2,2,1,3,5,3,2,1,0,0,0,0

morning.              ->.              EVENING 

 

I mean 3 month ago it was more like that: 

4,4,4,4,5,6,7,8,9,9,9,86,4,4,4,5 

 

 

 

 

 

Did anybody experienced similar?! 

@Armorall 

@KenA

 

 

When I am in a window now: it could be like this: 

 

1,1,1,2,2,3,2,2,2,2,3,2,1,,1

And in a wave it's like that(left mornings, right evening)

3,3,3,4,5,4,5,6,3,3,3,2,3

 

 

Has anybody seen this pattern?

 

 

 

[Moonpie]

All very normal but not the normal we are used to. The waves shoe your brain is working to heal

[KenA]

@jonah2001 I'm going to share some advise with you that my mentor shared with me when i was in the worst of it. Due to the fact that this healing is completely non-linear, trying to predict your symptoms or figure out a pattern is only going to frustrate you and upset you. When you expect to feel good, and then end up feeling bad, you will get upset because you feel bad. Trying to predict how you are going to feel is honestly a fruitless exercise. There is no rhyme or reason to the madness my friend. It's completely random and can happen in any way possible. I always taught myself to expect the unexpected so that way I would calm down and relax and let the symptoms ride. Yes they suck, but fighting against them does no good and only makes the process more painful. I wish I could tell you that what my experience was like would be like your experience, but that would be lying to you. We all heal in individual ways and we just have to let our brains and CNS heal in the way it has to. We are all unique individuals and no one's DNA is the same as anyone else.

 

I can tell you that this will come to an end one day. There is no telling how long it will take or how it will happen, but it WILL happen. Till that day happens, you just have to do the best that you can with what you are given. Take it easy on yourself and just keep hanging in there! You are gonna get there one day I promise

 

Ken

[Ninabird]

@KenA

So very true. @jonah2001

Jonah, you are doing well. I know how awful this is. I am in the thick of it. Do your best to tell yourself that this won't last and this will end..... it will. Until then, reach out if you need friend.

 

Ninabird

[Armorall]

@jonah2001 yes you may revisit symptoms from months ago. It doesn't mean anything, just that you are still withdrawing. If anything, your bigger and bigger windows show how much improvement you have. Let your windows inform you, not the waves. 

[jonah2001]

Hey guys, I don't see the point to live anymore. There is no hope.. 

 

I can't walk because of muscle cramps. 

 

I can never have sex again, because I suffer also PSSD. 

 

Strong fatigue... 

 

 

Dizziness

 

Tinnitus all day long (horrible) 

 

Cognitive Problems.. 

 

And million more Symptoms.. 

 

 

The depression is so hard, every minute hurts.. 

 

I am off the meds now for 12 month.. 

 

Only took them for 7 month (4 month and 3 month taper) 

 

 

So my conclusion is: I don't have any hope anymore. I don't want to live like this, I don't want to live a life where I cant walk, have no sex, only emotional pain.. 

 

I don't want this anymore... 

 

 

Guy's, from what I hear, that will last for many years... And I can't live like that for many years.. 

 

 

I WAS a young man, with dreams and goals.. but there is no goal anymore.. 

 

So I will try to kill my self , and when there is any sign, that god don't want me to die.. I will fight longer! 

 

 

Have a nice live guys!!

[KenA]

@jonah2001I'm sorry that you are feeling that there is no hope and that the only way to deal with it is to make a terrible decision. You really do need to seek out some help if you are feeling that way. The only thing I can tell you is DO NOT make a permanent solution to a temporary problem! Get some help sir! Will keep you in my prayers!

 

ken

[Erimus]

Sorry you are suffering so much my friend @jonah2001. When you are deep in withdrawal waves you are not thinking rationally. Your mind loses the ability to think and act calmly. It’s completely normal to have feelings of deep pain and despair given what has happened. You are going through a massive traumatic event, there’s no two ways about it.
 

If I were you, I would seek out a counsellor or somebody independent of the healthcare system to talk to. It’s important for you to get your feelings and thoughts off your chest. Don’t shoulder all the suffering inside yourself. Withdrawal is too much for any person to withstand on their own. Don’t make any important big decisions, but please do find somebody to talk with.

[Ninabird]

@jonah2001Jonah

 

Here is your sign to keep fighting. I feel God has put us on here to remind you that this will NOT last forever. Jonah, you are not thinking clearly right now. It is very normal to feel this way while you are in a horrible wave. Do you have support where you are? There are hotlines to call when you are in crisis. Talk to a counselor.You WILL get through this Jonah. I know how painful this is, we are all going through it in one way or another. Please, reach out for help. God less you dear Jonah. I am praying for you.

[Moonpie]

@jonah2001How are you doing?  Very concerned about you.  Please call a friend or family member, healthcare, suicide hotline.  Do not be alone.  Ken said it perfectly.  Suicide is a permenant solution for a temporary problem.  Many people care about you here and will be here for you as you work through this

 Please don't give up.  Please let me know you are okay. I am praying for you and I care.

[Moonpie]

@jonah2001 please let us know you are ok and how you are doing

[Carmie]

Hi @jonah2001

 

A lot of people on here are concerned about you, please let us know how you’re doing. Did you seek some help? 🧡

[jonah2001]

@ Yes, I am okay.. sorry guys that I am saying something like that.

 

A very very hard wave nocked me on my but out of nowhere.. it's very frustrating to say at least.. when you felt okay (not good) for almost 2 1/2 week's.. and then something nocks you on your but that you can't even talk 😅😅