Vonnegutjunky: Paxil 10 mg for 8 years - partial wean with reinstatement

[Vonnegutjunky]

4 hours ago, Dejavu said:

@Vonnegutjunky, I have a couple of these. The other day, hubby had a hockey game on and I just happened to walk into the room. I was suddenly triggered into a wave of anxious dread by that game - I have no idea why. I have no "hockey issues" at all. I still suffer this from time to time.

 

I also have the "things just don't look right" symptom at times. A couple of days ago, it looked like my refrigerator was leaning to one side. Another time, a blank wall looked like it was "bulging out" in one spot. It also looked odd to me that the wall was blank, even though there's never been anything on that wall ever. I haven't had this in the last few months.

 

I haven't had the phone thing, but I have heard of a syndrome (non withdrawal related) where people report a sensation of feeling their phone vibrate in their hand or pocket when the phone is actually not there. Perhaps your symptom is related? 

 

There is seemingly no end to the randomness and oddness of the symptoms we get. For me, it seems to get weirder all the time. For instance, I get my full bladder sensation contemporaneously with a burning tongue. Every time - never one without the other. How strange is that?

 

I'm betting your new symptoms will settle as you get used to the updose. Hang in! As you've reminded me - it gets better!

 

 

Thank you Deja, I get burning tongue too but it’s there quite often and not connected with the pgad. 

 

I hope this calms down a bit, I want to get off this drug, it’s frustrating to feel this crappy and still be on, what I feel is such a high dose. 7.2 mg of Paxil isn’t that small of a dose. So it worries me the more I go down the worse I’m gonna get. 

 

Well I guess I just keep white knuckling it for the next however many years it takes for me to stop taking it. 

 

 

[Dejavu]

I know what you mean. I didn't know anything about the nature of ad withdrawal when I fast tapered 50 mg zoloft. A month later when wd hit, I reflexively ri'd 25mg, which is probably way too high, but its what I'm stuck with now. Probably why I haven't stabilized yet and I feel so hideous right now. But you know, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that our symptoms might actually improve the lower we go. I have so many side effects on zoloft that I think its possible that could happen - that was my experience on the first taper, so who knows?

 

I really hope you feel better tomorrow!!  Hang in!

[Finn25]

Hey Vonnegutjunky,

Thanks for popping in on my intro thread and offering encouragement! Hope you can stabilize soon as well. We're all getting there...slowly!

[Vonnegutjunky]

1 hour ago, Finn25 said:

Hey Vonnegutjunky,

Thanks for popping in on my intro thread and offering encouragement! Hope you can stabilize soon as well. We're all getting there...slowly!

Thanks Finn 😊

[Vonnegutjunky]

Just an update, 

 

so so after almost 3 months of a wave, I finally am in a window. 

 

I did a .04 updose about 6 weeks ago. Due to severely destabilizing instrusive thoughts. 

 

I guess I need to taper ever slower, and that is fine, I feel I am at a relatively low dose now and I know the lower we ge the slower we have to go. 

 

For me its not a race to get off as long as I feel ok, but I do want to be off so I can start true healing. 

I giggle every time someone calls the meds rat poison, becuse it’s frighteningly true. 

I don’t want to be on these meds at all, I hear often from others who have gotten off, after some time, that they feel better than ever, I wonder if the repopulating of receptors and your brain repairing itself has something to do with that. Maybe, maybe not. I just hope and pray that is true for me, becuse I also still see suffering and others who have to reinstate years out just to function. 

 

I hate being hopeful in this situation becuse every time I am, the worst happens to me. 

 

Just happy for some respite for now. 

 

Thnking of you all at SA. 

 

May the windows fall upon you and the waves always be at your back. 

❤️❤️

 

[DogLover]

wishing you the best. for me its been a rough two weeks.

 

 

[Carmie]

I’m glad you’re finally in a window VJ💚

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you - 

 

my window lasted about a day and a half - I am back to the anxiety and brain that makes me feel I am losing my mind -

 

I have these discombobulated thoughts that I can’t ezplain and it almost feels like a very messy collage of partial thoughts or pieces of dreams that just float quickly around in my head and leave me feeling a bit confused and very anxious-

 

then they go -

 

it’s often associated with trying to remember something or thinking about something other than what I happen to be doing at the moment - it’s bizarre and it almost feels like what someone with dementia would describe -

 

I’m sure it’s anxiety related and possibly hormonal as I am in the early stages of menopause - 

 

still  I don’t have the intrusive thoughts that debilitated me so I am grateful- 

 

so I function and  do what I can in spite of how I feel and in spite of the fear that I’m going to go crazy or delvelop dementia or dissipate into another dimension (no really I feels that freaky some times) 

 

 

[Hopefull]

On 3/25/2019 at 11:22 AM, Vonnegutjunky said:

Thank you - 

 

my window lasted about a day and a half - I am back to the anxiety and brain that makes me feel I am losing my mind -

 

I have these discombobulated thoughts that I can’t ezplain and it almost feels like a very messy collage of partial thoughts or pieces of dreams that just float quickly around in my head and leave me feeling a bit confused and very anxious-

 

then they go -

 

it’s often associated with trying to remember something or thinking about something other than what I happen to be doing at the moment - it’s bizarre and it almost feels like what someone with dementia would describe -

 

I’m sure it’s anxiety related and possibly hormonal as I am in the early stages of menopause - 

 

still  I don’t have the intrusive thoughts that debilitated me so I am grateful- 

 

so I function and  do what I can in spite of how I feel and in spite of the fear that I’m going to go crazy or delvelop dementia or dissipate into another dimension (no really I feels that freaky some times) 

 

 

 

Hi Vonnegutjunky,

I used to experience this weird symptom for a long time,  before falling asleep,  where the thougts in my head appeared so real and I couldn't distinguish whether it really happened or I just dreamt it.

From the sounds of it,  it seems that you are experiencing similar thing. 

I don't have it anymore.  It always happened just as I was trying to fall asleep.  Then I would try to remembered whether that really happened or not. It was really weird. 

I know you feel scared about losing your mind,  it sure feels like it sometimes. 

But you won't. The brain is just readjusting,  putting a rubix cube back together.  Thank you for stopping by my thread and for your kind words. 

You will get better.  Take care, Hopefull.

 

 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you hopeful- that is very very nice if toy to reassure me ❤️🙏❤️ I really appreciate that 

[Hopefull]

7 hours ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

Thank you hopeful- that is very very nice if toy to reassure me ❤️🙏❤️ I really appreciate that 

You are welcome.  ❤️ 

[Vonnegutjunky]

my very first anxiety attack happened when I was about 3 years old, I was a toddler and I remember it clear as day. My first panic attack happened when I was in the 2nd grade. I remember it clear as day. Around age 12 is when my anxiety disorder really started. And so did therapy, many many years of therapy. 

 

At the age of 30 the intrusive thoughts began to leave me non functioning. And I had a child I was responsible for, so I got pills. 

 

Paxil was a dream drug!!!! 

 

Which is why it’s so difficult for me now that the drug has turned on me and caused my adverse reaction. 

 

A few years ago i got my genetic testing done and I have a short serotonin transporter, my body doesn’t like to transport serotonin to my brain....

 

my question is,  as I reduce my Paxil, does anyone have any non drug techniques to help my body get the serotonin that I need? This isn’t so much about chemical imbalance theory as much as it is knowing that I just don’t transport serotonin to my brain like most people and it’s always been as issue for me, otherwise Paxil wouldn’t have helped so much. 

 

I also have always had severe constipation issues, with IBS slow intestinal function is what docs have called it when I was little. Taking probiotics never helped, I use peppermint oil for my IBS with some success. But other than that I have no physical problems. 

 

Any advice would be appreciated. 

Thank you. 

[powerback]

https://www.chatelaine.com/health/wellness/natural-ways-to-increase-your-serotonin-levels/

This is from a Google search V .interesting that you say you've had gut issues because there's a huge connection with gut and brain health.

Interesting that you remember an anxiety attack at 3 years old.

Its only through introspection I realised I suffered since I was a kid with anxiety.

The fact my childhood was spent being pumped with steroids and antibiotics (gut flora destroyed) says alot about my own substance abuse and addictions from adolesance onwards.

My mother often says I wouldn't be alive if I wasn't pumped with these drugs ,so its kind of a deal with the devil .

The fact addictions and dependence is slowly not being thought of as a character flaw and being understood much better is good but we are still very far away from decriminalizeing addiction.I see no difference between street drugs and prescription addiction .

I  struggled in school and this is everything to do with anxiety and how it shuts down the thinking part of the brain (cant think of the technical name lol),so in withdrawal its even worse .

Gut health is much more that prebiotics and probitotics ,its a full time job to understand it  .how is your diet?.

Our problem is a pain because of what these drugs do to us ,but we keep at it I suppose.

Take care.

[powerback]

Heres a talk I had .its a bit overwhelming to get our head around so be careful in withdrawal but start small.the other factor is practicing a different way of eating and habits ,I still go for crap food I shouldn't eat but 90% of my meals are fresh whole ingredients .not that im a picture of perfection of health .

Dont jump in with 2 feet because you could waste money on foods that your gut doesnt even have the enzymes to break the stuff down.trust me ive wasted loads.we can definitely help the next generation also.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks so much PB! This is really helpful! 

[brassmonkey]

Hi VJ-- thanks for dropping past my thread.  I'm glad to see that things are working.  It can be so uncomfortable at times, but it all changes minute to minute.  Take things nice and slow and you'll get there.  As I remember the mid doses (apx 6-3) seemed to settle out quite a bit then symptoms picked back up a bit until around 1.  With luck you'll be getting a bit of a break for a while, but don't be tempted to rush things if you start to feel better.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks brass appreciate it. 

 

 

[Vonnegutjunky]

I did an updose about 2 months ago due to intrusive thoughts that left me non functional. 

 

I have recently hit a wave, and am filled with anxiety and panic that the akathisia has or will return. 

I got akathisia years ago from my reinstatement and subsequent doubling of my normal dose. 

 

Now I am ruminating that’s the akathisia is going to come back, all day every day during this wave, but I can’t tell if it’s really coming back or if I am just upsetting myself. 

I am feeling moments of severe agitation for no reason, I can’t watch tv, but I’ve been able to with no problem for years now. 

 

I cant tell what is wrong with me, no appetite and sleeping so so much. 

 

I am always hungry, I got so fat on Paxil, and I’ve just lost 5 lbs in 3 days.

I just cannot eat anything.

I have sores on the roof of my mouth that hurt I think they are cold sores. 

 

Some of this his reminds me of how I was before I started Paxil and some of it reminds me of akathisia. 

 

I know that akathisia can last for years even after stopping the offending drug, I guess that’s why I am freaking out now, because of my updose. But I haven’t had akathisia for almost 2 years, since I’ve been under 8.5mg of my Paxil. 

 

I am day 5 into my wave. I’ve had long waves before but this one is pretty intense. 

Crossing fingers. I hate having hope. It always lets me down. 

[bheb]

57 minutes ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

Now I am ruminating that’s the akathisia is going to come back, all day every day during this wave, but I can’t tell if it’s really coming back or if I am just upsetting myself. 

 

Sounds simple, but when I ruminate about what type or degree of akathisia I'm at (since I've got at least some kind of agitation, constant for the most part) I repeat to myself: you will know when you're in it, you will know when you're out of it. Sometimes, that's all I can concretely measure. Since I have had some very small breaks, I know during those I never wondered whether it was gone. When it left me, even just for an hour or so, it was so clear as day. 

 

So with you, it's clear something is wrong, regardless if akathisia or not. That something may be the rumination itself. I know it's way easier said than done, but I think it can help to just accept that something is off, something is wrong, as opposed to constant comparing and categorizing. (I have not mastered this AT ALL.)

 

It seems like the updose may have been activating to you, is that right? 

[Dejavu]

@Vonnegutjunky, I wish I could offer you more than support. I'm still struggling to stabilize from reinstatement which was probably too high a dose. The best advice is, of course, to not anticipate trouble. But that's a pretty tall order under these circumstances. Sending you healing energy tonight!! 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Well the updose wasn’t felt at all for almost 2 months and even then I only felt less intrusive thoughts. Other than that, no, no physical symptoms at all. 

 

I agree, if I had akathisia I would know it. I am definitely in a wave and feeling extremely anxious and depressed and sleeping....sleeping a lot and not wanting to live life feeling this amount of anxiety and depression. It’s really really awful. And it’s making me worry about everything. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

4 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

@Vonnegutjunky, I wish I could offer you more than support. I'm still struggling to stabilize from reinstatement which was probably too high a dose. The best advice is, of course, to not anticipate trouble. But that's a pretty tall order under these circumstances. Sending you healing energy tonight!! 

Thank you Deja vue, I know your struggling too. I hope I can just keep tapering and even just get to a low dose and stablize will make me happy. I just want to work again. 

[Dejavu]

Yes, absolutely, I feel your pain about working. After 5 months, I have finally started to get windows but they don't last long - just a few hours at a time. I haven't been able to work much either, and it's starting to show in the ole bank account.

 

It's not a given by any means that akathisia will return. Like my husband always tells me: stay on the lighted side of the street. I'm pulling for you!

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you Deja! I’m pulling for you too! 

[direstraits]

I'm so sorry you're suffering like this,Vj

I am too,it's awful.

 

thanks for visiting my thread.

I responded there.

 

hope we both get some relief soon.

best,ds

❤️

[puthappinessfirst]

Hi, VJ,

 

Just realized I "know" you from our Facebook groups. You group has really helped me since it is more positive than the other. 

You can message me to clarify who I am if you'd like. 

 

16 hours ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

Now I am ruminating that’s the akathisia is going to come back, all day every day during this wave, but I can’t tell if it’s really coming back or if I am just upsetting myself. 

 

 

This is also me to a T. I think we are just hyper sensitive and hyper anxious. Definitely makes us feel worse. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Well I just want some opinions. 

 

So my intrusive thoughts got really really bad this past January. I stopped functioning and decided to increase I was at 3.7 mg off my pill, and decided to go back up to 3.3 off. (My pills weigh about 12.5mg) 

 

well that updose definitely helped with the ocd, I also feel I was tapering too fast last winter as I went from 3.3 off in October 2018 to 3.8 off by December 2018

 

it was a couple of months going .5 but we are all different and below 7.5mg of Paxil for me is where I really start feeling it bad, also it take me 2 months to notice any effects coming or going, it’s just always been that way for me. 

 

Anyway like I said since my updose I was feeling better, the ocd was leaving and for the first time in almost 5 years I felt like a normal person during windows. 

 

Since my adverse reaction 5 years ago I did have windows off and on the whole time, but even during my windows I always felt like I was on a bad acid trip, this is gone finally!!!!! I have had days of feeling so normal and not scared during windows finally, and I am petrified I am going to screw that’s up. 

 

Now this last week I hit a wave, on Saturday evening to be exact. And it’s left me bedridden. 

 

Now during my adverse reaction 5 years ago one of my symptoms was having a feeling of internal vibration in the soles of my feet. And it would get worse during waves. 

 

Well I have that internal vibration /electrical feeling throughout my whole body again, I haven’t felt it for almost a year, It’s not tremors and it’s not on the outside, it’s not with urges to move, but it is filled with huge fear, I feel like screaming if I have to do anything, anything at all, even getting up to use the restroom causes fear, thinking and thoughts cause fear, I just feel surged with fear. But this time I am sleeping a lot, because I would rather sleep than feel this. And I can’t eat and I’m having tummy issues. 

 

Now this is similar to my adverse reaction years ago....however.....1. It’s not as intense, and 2. I had so much anxiety then....I couldn’t tell what was what, so I now cat tell am I having Adverse Reaction. Or just heightened anxiety and wd symptoms? I can’t tell what is what. The buzzing upsets me and worries me that .04 increase is doing this to me, and going to cause me akathisia again, but on the upside my intrusive thoughts are no longer tormenting me! 

 

So so my question, do you think I am now having an adverse reaction to my updose, (which was 2 months ago) or am I experiencing anxiety and ocd and exacerbating things? (I do feel traumatized from my adverse reaction) 

 

Also I am in early menopause.

 

Thank you you for reading this far and for any opinions.  

[Sottana]

Hey,

 

Great name! I’m sorry no one has responded to you yet. I don’t want to give any untoward advice, but I just want you to know I read your post and am listening. I updosed a few weeks ago and found it effected me negatively. The difference is I felt the negative effects almost immediately, within the first couple of days. I’m not sure if the updose could have a delayed negative reaction. You’ll have to ask a mod. My guess would be yes as anything is possible in withdrawal, but that it’s more likely just a wave from a destabilized CNS. I have OCD too and feel I’m constantly trying to figure out why symptoms are occurring when they do and if it has anything to do with my actions. There’s a fine line between being cautious about dosing and when to make changes and becoming obsessed with it. I really struggle with that too. 

 

Best,

 

Anthony 

[Vonnegutjunky]

12 hours ago, Adili13 said:

Hey,

 

Great name! I’m sorry no one has responded to you yet. I don’t want to give any untoward advice, but I just want you to know I read your post and am listening. I updosed a few weeks ago and found it effected me negatively. The difference is I felt the negative effects almost immediately, within the first couple of days. I’m not sure if the updose could have a delayed negative reaction. You’ll have to ask a mod. My guess would be yes as anything is possible in withdrawal, but that it’s more likely just a wave from a destabilized CNS. I have OCD too and feel I’m constantly trying to figure out why symptoms are occurring when they do and if it has anything to do with my actions. There’s a fine line between being cautious about dosing and when to make changes and becoming obsessed with it. I really struggle with that too. 

 

Best,

 

Anthony 

Thank you Anthony , I appreciated your perspective - it’s kind of what I was thinking - 

 

lately any amount  stimulation causes me severe anxiety and panic and depersonalization - 

 

i have to take my daughter back and forth to school- and although I never really liked doing it - today it became almost impossible to do - I have never felt this bad - the last time I felt this bad was when I reinstated to 20mg - but even then I didn’t have the extreme panic attack’s -  I just felt weird like I was on drugs - 

 

i can barely rely calm myself down from this state - I have not reduced the med since last November - I am a complete mess - during my whole taper I was feeling better and better - now I’m getting worse and worse- 

 

i need to at least have to ability to take my child back and forth to school - this is the only thing my husband needs of me - wth - I never had a problem doing this before - 

 

unbelievable 

[Sottana]

I have the same exact symptoms as you. Seems like they’re some of the most common in withdrawal. 

 

You have to try to force yourself to see yourself as healing. I know this perspective can be nearly impossible when you’re not doing well, but it’s so necessary. 

 

The fact that you were getting better and better during the taper is encouraging. What have mods said about holding vs slowly tapering? 

 

Anthony 

[Vonnegutjunky]

I am struggling. I am struggling so much. 

I went for a walk, pushed through it, made my anxiety worse. 

 

Started having delusions, which I do, my anxiety creates intrusive thoughts that try’s to make sense of why I feel so anxious. And they are bizarre non sense, things that are out of the real of possibility, like some unseen force sucking me and throwing me down my stairs, or gravity stopping and me flying off the earth, or thinking I’m going to be hit by a car, for absolutely no reason. 

 

I really feel feel like I am finally losing my mind. I don’t even know f this is wd or me just going crazy? I can’t tell anymore. I’m scared 24/7 of everything, I have not had a moment of feeling not scared for 12 days now, and it seems to be getting worse. 

 

I am freaking out. I know my receptors are down regulated and I cannot take another med, it just won’t help. I wish I would at the very least lose complete contact with reality so I not know what the hell is going on. I wish I could be put in to a coma. 

 

I dont know what to do  

 

also so on Sunday night before bed I took an epsom salt bath and my body relaxed, my mind was still anxious, but the next day my anxiety and panic came back 10 fold, like it rebounded. 

[direstraits]

I'm so sorry ,this sounds horrendous...I wish I knew what would help.

I've been in an awful state ,too for the last couple weeks,just feel like I'm getting worse,almost constant inner agitation,extreme fatigue,my vision is so messed up,especially when outside.

I'm almost 5 years off this crap and scared to death I'll never be the same again.

just so sorry you're suffering like this and wanted you to know I'm thinking of you and care what happens to you.I hope we can get relief soon.

 

take care,ds❤️

 

[Dejavu]

Please hang on, my friend. You are not going crazy. It is paxil-induced, it is a wave and it will pass. I'm so sorry it is hanging on so long. Intrusive thoughts are awful. They happen to me, too.  No rhyme or reason. Doesnt even have to make sense - its terrifying anyway. And yes, I've often wished to be comatose, or worse. I wish I had a fast solution. Try to keep breathing and put one foot in front of the other for those kiddos. Sending you all the healing energy I can muster. You'll make it.

[Vonnegutjunky]

8 minutes ago, direstraits said:

I'm so sorry ,this sounds horrendous...I wish I knew what would help.

I've been in an awful state ,too for the last couple weeks,just feel like I'm getting worse,almost constant inner agitation,extreme fatigue,my vision is so messed up,especially when outside.

I'm almost 5 years off this crap and scared to death I'll never be the same again.

just so sorry you're suffering like this and wanted you to know I'm thinking of you and care what happens to you.I hope we can get relief soon.

 

take care,ds❤️

 

Thank you so much DS. 

I just don’t know if this is withdrawal or not? I can’t tell. 

 

Probably menopause is making it bad too. I’m at my wits end and just don’t know what to do. My thought processes are just so messed up. Like I can’t even recall things without having anxiety. 

 

 

[Vonnegutjunky]

6 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

Please hang on, my friend. You are not going crazy. It is paxil-induced, it is a wave and it will pass. I'm so sorry it is hanging on so long. Intrusive thoughts are awful. They happen to me, too.  No rhyme or reason. Doesnt even have to make sense - its terrifying anyway. And yes, I've often wished to be comatose, or worse. I wish I had a fast solution. Try to keep breathing and put one foot in front of the other for those kiddos. Sending you all the healing energy I can muster. You'll make it.

Thank you Deja, I appreciate it. I really hope it’s wd. 

[direstraits]

2 minutes ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

My thought processes are just so messed up. Like I can’t even recall things without having anxiety. 

yes,I have this too. I just don't think the same way anymore,it feels crazy.

I think it's all from these f'ing drugs,I was never like this before.

hang in there.xx