Vonnegutjunky: Paxil 10 mg for 8 years - partial wean with reinstatement

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, I don't believe that waves at set intervals exist.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks Rosetta. I’ve always had a bit of seasonal issues. I had surgery last February and went home feeling amazing after the drugs they gave me to put me under. If I’m honest I’ve been having windows and waves this whole time, but I was able to function through them. This is the first one that I’ve had in a over a year where I literally am having issues functioning. 
 

I also had Covid this past February 

amd I’m also in menopause 

 

it’s like the perfect storm I guess; my instinct is to cross taper to Prozac, try to find something that “works” again, but I don’t want to be on meds. I always get bad physical side effects, like severe weight gain and sexual issues. 
 

 

Alto, do you think for some people there may be a set of circumstances that cause severe waves at certain times? Of is it anecdotal?
 

I have been here feeling like this for 5 days now. I’ll give it a little ore time, my intense waves have never been really long. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Have any mod witnessed long term stabilization at a low dose of a med? Like windows and waves stopped but individual was still on a low dose? I was considering staying at a low dose of Paxil, just to maintain function because the wd is so intense for me. But if I’m going to indefinitely feel waves at a low dose I guess I’ll have to taper feeling awful....I don’t want to....I want to get stable. I haven’t been stable for more than a few months  since all of this started. I just want to be stable and be able to function. I haven’t touched my dose in 2 years because once I got down to 7mg I finally started having windows from the akathisia (Paxil 20mg gave me an adverse reaction and I had akathisia for years slowly tapering it) 

 

I was doing so good, am I now experiencing wd? The waves are different, they are not as horrific as the akathisia waves were, but the depression is very similar to how I felt when I got down to 5mg and didn’t know what was happening to me.....not exactly the same, but similar.....continued waves 2 years later???? I’m baffled. I really need someone to talk to to tell me if I should taper or hold and if this story sounds typical. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

I literally feel like two different people. In windows and waves. I am starting to feel a little stronger today. It’s day 8 of feeling awful. But I really feel like I’m bipolar or something. I know I’m not, but that’s the only way I can explain it. It has to be a wave right? Going from highly functioning to non functional in a matter of days and feeling more like myself today? 
 

I forced myself out of bed today and forced myself to see clients, go to the grocery and even sit outside in the sun in my hammock .but I did it. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Forced myself out of bed- guess why? Someone else on here who has been struggling with aka got up every single day and went to work feeling exactly like I do- so I figured if someone else can do it and feel like this - then it’s not impossible - 

 

went for a walk at the park- the cold air helped me not focus on my physical symptoms (because I was so cold) 

 

during times that the doom feelings came that made me want to scream and cry- I let them happen and pushed forward - 

 

I listened to Oprah’s super soul Sunday today- the guy rast was a 91 year old Holocaust survivor- he said - hope for surprises, don’t be inflexible to think things must be a certain way- he also said even in the darkest depths of terrible experiences, look at them as opportunities- so in this depression, I am using this as an opportunity to teach myself how to heal without depending on medication- 

 

like dr Michael Yapko says- the pills take away our agency and leave us feeling powerless when that’s not true- we have power to help ourselves - 

 

how is it that anyone survived in the world before 1960? You would think (listening to doctors) that all of the depressives committed suicide all day every day without having these pills -  

maybe I’m one who “needs” pills - but I’m at least going to TRY to overcome these issues without pills - no one ever gave me the chance to at least TRY. 

[Rosetta]

I’m reading.  I can’t write or read much right now.  I’m thinking of you.  I wish I could help

[Rosetta]

How are you doing?  A bit better, I hope. 
Rosetta🦋

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you Rosetta 

 

update - 

 

I was able to force myself out of bed - distract and keep myself moving - the doom feelings have pretty much gone- just left with severe brain fog - 

 

I fear I’m never going to be able to hold down a job normally again- 

someone on one of the threads here wrote about how they went to work everyday, feeling exactly like I do- that gives me hope that maybe I can push through each of these waves - 

 

I feel so foggy like yesterday was a year ago- I look back and forget stuff that I wrote - Covid setbacks aren’t helping with this- I will be getting vaccinated in a few months - I’ll write more tomrrow - just wanted to post a quick update that I am feeling a little better 

[Rosetta]

I’m glad to hear the doom feelings are gone!

[Rosetta]

How are you doing?  Do you feel more hopeful?  How’s the brain fog?

[Vonnegutjunky]

Hey there. I am still plugging away. Getting up, out of bed, working. The work is stressing me out. It’s creating this existential ocd like depression, the very thing that I got put on medication for. 
 

I am working on trying to combat it, refocus, not dwell. I am worried. I am worried it will get bad again like it did before I ever took Paxil. I am worried I won’t be able to cope. It’s such a yucky feeling and so utterly distracting. 
 

I am working on having hope and keeping myself connected to others. I’m working on labeling and not letting my mind go down into a derealization rabbit hole. 
 

I have hope that this will pass. 

[Rosetta]

Oh, I hope that is short lived.  How challenging.  Stressful vs no work — no good answer for that.  Both are difficult.  I believe it will pass, too.  I think it’s very unlikely we will have the same problems we had before ADs.  So much has changed.  I think we will be wiser for having gone through this awful experience, but when in the thick of it . . . Well, that hope feels sort of like science fiction for us in the present.

[Urchinowl]

8 hours ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

It’s creating this existential ocd like depression

I feel this 100 percent.  Although, I never had this prior to my withdrawal from zoloft. In my withdrawal states, I questioned reality, meaning of life, purpose, we're things real, not real, is this a dream, etc. I think this is normal and healthy for humans to contemplate these things, however when I would think about them it would come with intense anxiety and also sadness and fear. 

 

I will say since reinstatement I had a window, and in this window these thoughts did cross my mind but were very quick and brief and easy for me to not dwell and let go. However if I'm not mindful, these thoughts will take over and my mood shifts.

 

Buddhists describe thinking about these things as "monkey mind". Thinking about these things does not change the outcome, and you're not going to be able to figure it out just through thinking. There are no answers and for people who are anxious we hate hearing thst there are no certainties.

 

I'd suggest getting out of ykur head,/thinking, and into the BEING. Talk with others, do a new activity, long walk, etc.

 

I will tell you your story sounds very similar to mine as I also experienced panic attacks at a very tiny age. I've been on zoloft 15 years, reinstatement did help, but I fear, like you, waves.  It's wonderful to hear thst you remained strong on the same dose for 2 years despite waves and windows as that is my plan as well. I reinstated a 25% of my original dose, and do NOT plan on increasing dosages. Ince stable I'm going yo taper through a 10 percent method which will take 2 years. Thank you for letting me know this is possible.

[Vonnegutjunky]

On 6/16/2021 at 1:22 AM, Rosetta said:

Oh, I hope that is short lived.  How challenging.  Stressful vs no work — no good answer for that.  Both are difficult.  I believe it will pass, too.  I think it’s very unlikely we will have the same problems we had before ADs.  So much has changed.  I think we will be wiser for having gone through this awful experience, but when in the thick of it . . . Well, that hope feels sort of like science fiction for us in the present.

Thank you. You always make me feel less lonely and give me hope. Your awesome. 💕

[Vonnegutjunky]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:48 AM, Urchinowl said:

I feel this 100 percent.  Although, I never had this prior to my withdrawal from zoloft. In my withdrawal states, I questioned reality, meaning of life, purpose, we're things real, not real, is this a dream, etc. I think this is normal and healthy for humans to contemplate these things, however when I would think about them it would come with intense anxiety and also sadness and fear. 

 

I will say since reinstatement I had a window, and in this window these thoughts did cross my mind but were very quick and brief and easy for me to not dwell and let go. However if I'm not mindful, these thoughts will take over and my mood shifts.

 

Buddhists describe thinking about these things as "monkey mind". Thinking about these things does not change the outcome, and you're not going to be able to figure it out just through thinking. There are no answers and for people who are anxious we hate hearing thst there are no certainties.

 

I'd suggest getting out of ykur head,/thinking, and into the BEING. Talk with others, do a new activity, long walk, etc.

 

I will tell you your story sounds very similar to mine as I also experienced panic attacks at a very tiny age. I've been on zoloft 15 years, reinstatement did help, but I fear, like you, waves.  It's wonderful to hear thst you remained strong on the same dose for 2 years despite waves and windows as that is my plan as well. I reinstated a 25% of my original dose, and do NOT plan on increasing dosages. Ince stable I'm going yo taper through a 10 percent method which will take 2 years. Thank you for letting me know this is possible.

Of course. Good luck on your wd. I’m still at 7mg and wondering if it’s worth going completely off this med. sometimes I feel like, I may just get down to 5mg, and just stay there so I don’t have to suffer anymore. I genuinely feel like if my full wd also causes aka, I won’t make it. So I’m struggling with that worry but also trying to just live in the moment. 
 

I hate the idea of eternity. It causes intense dpdr for me. And it hovers around in the back of my mind gnawing at me. Working on some purposeful exposure and letting it happen. It’s super difficult. But hopefully the practice will pay off in the end. 
 

 

[Vonnegutjunky]

On 4/21/2021 at 1:16 PM, Altostrata said:

I'm sorry, I don't believe that waves at set intervals exist.

I wouldn’t say mine are set per se. it’s like they start and last for around the same number of days. It’s like for me, once they start, they remain for almost a week, but this is completely in relation to my akathisia, not necessarily wd. I don’t really think I have a “common” withdrawal. I think I am more damaged from my reinstatement and healing from that. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Just posting an update. 
 

I am babysitting my one year old granddaughter this weekend. The stress from this is triggering me, triggering massive anxiety and depression. I guess I am still too raw to do anything stressful. I hope this doesn’t launch me into a massive wave. I am worried about that. I guess I agreed to babysit too soon. 
 

 

[Rosetta]

((Vonnegutjunky))  A big hug.  

[Altostrata]

Hang in there. What about looking after the baby is stressful for you? Can you get help with that?

[Vonnegutjunky]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hang in there. What about looking after the baby is stressful for you? Can you get help with that?

Yes I had a friend come over today and help with her, it helped a lot. I think the stress is just from so much responsibility of looking after a 1 year old and the lack of sleep that comes with that lol. Today was much better than yesterday, but I forgot how needy kids are, I can’t sit down for 2 minutes, and I have to constantly be moving and I have a torn rotator cuff. So the exercise is a good thing, but the arm pain is bad. 
It seems any amount of responsibility stresses me out, including my job. But I am better today, a lot better.  thanks for checking in with me I appreciate it. 

[Altostrata]

Hang in there, VJ. You're increasing your ability to handle stress.

[Vonnegutjunky]

I am not in a good place - like I am really really bad - I have no idea why - I haven’t changed my medications - but I was recently put on an antibiotic for a bladder infection and I seemed to have spiraled in the last 4 days- 

I can’t eat - I can’t get out of bed - I am so so so depressed I cannot function- I do not know what to do or how to cope like this- I don’t know if this is withdrawal or what - it’s horrible - the anxiety is horrible and causing intrusive existential obsessions - life feels meaningless and I just don’t know what to do or how to cope - I worry I’m someone who needs medication - how do I cope? I can’t live like this without coping mechanisms- 

[Rusty1]

1 hour ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

I am not in a good place - like I am really really bad - I have no idea why - I haven’t changed my medications - but I was recently put on an antibiotic for a bladder infection and I seemed to have spiraled in the last 4 days- 

I can’t eat - I can’t get out of bed - I am so so so depressed I cannot function- I do not know what to do or how to cope like this- I don’t know if this is withdrawal or what - it’s horrible - the anxiety is horrible and causing intrusive existential obsessions - life feels meaningless and I just don’t know what to do or how to cope - I worry I’m someone who needs medication - how do I cope? I can’t live like this without coping mechanisms- 

What antibiotic? 

They are known to increase symptoms and cause waves.

Did this worsening depression start after beginning the antibiotic?

[Vonnegutjunky]

35 minutes ago, Rusty1 said:

What antibiotic? 

They are known to increase symptoms and cause waves.

Did this worsening depression start after beginning the antibiotic?

It was macrobid and yes - when I think of it I got much much worse the second day on it - my last day was yesterday- I was on for 5 days- 

[Alice1]

Yes, Antibiotics really set you back and it takes awhile to calm down. It could take weeks or months but it does calm down.  I’m speaking from experience.  I know others as well.  

[Vonnegutjunky]

Short sert and antidepressant use

 

I have short receptors - and for years I have been wondering why my reinstatement went so wrong - I think this article may shine some light on the why for myself - 

 

Maybe someone could read this and give some insight on what I might do to heal from my withdrawal? It’s been almost 10 years now and I’m still struggling with severe depression and anxiety 
 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666144619300048

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Rosetta]

Hi. This is curious.  How did you discover that you have short receptors?  Who told you that?

[Altostrata]

I have no idea what this means. In general, "depression" is caused by life experiences, not short receptors.

[Vonnegutjunky]

But here is the thing - if serotonin plays no role in depression - why does withdrawal cause such severe symptoms that feel like depression? 
 

my genetic testing found my short  receptor - 

 

Also people with short receptors all have very similar symptoms of anxiety - I was put on Paxil for my anxiety - which after years of having anxiety caused my depression (ny depression was always like a mixed bag of severe anxiety) - so if there is no chemical connection, (I’m not doubting you at all, I’m genuinely just trying to understand) why does the wd hit so hard and why do I feel better when taking things that increase serotonin? (Like my estrogen or 5htp?) 

 

 

 

 

[Vonnegutjunky]

This is an update - 

 

since the beginning of the year - my old symptoms (why I got put on Paxil ) came back 10x worse than I have ever felt - constant intrusive thoughts, and dissociative symptoms - 

 

I’ve been listening to podcasts, YouTube videos and engaging in groups to help cope - I’m feeling progress with this - 

 

some days I want to give up and go back on my full dose of pills or just try something new and be done - but I’ve not went through with it, (mainly because I know the akathisia will come back) and a day or two later I feel the strength to keep going - so I keep going - 

 

trying to gain agency over yourself after you’ve been taught that you have a biological condition that will only get worse and you have no control over is very hard to unlearn - but I do know this is untrue and I do have control and I can do things to change my brain and make myself feel better - but it takes work and a lifestyle change and consistentcy- 

 

where are the reduced suicides since antidepressants came along? There aren’t - 

 

Before the antidepressant existed people weren’t offing themselves in the streets - they coped with the **** feelings - or they didn’t cope and got dysfunctional and took it out on their kids - but they weren’t killing themselves like people would have you believe - 

So I am trying to regain my agency over my thoughts and feelings and decisions - most of my days I feel 100% normal - I am nearly ready to beging tapering again- I am going to keep practicing my coping and doing all the things I need to do so when I get crappy again as I reduce I will feel prepared -  this year my goal is to get down by 1mg - I will taper .01 every few weeks until I get down and hold for a year - I am functional and I hope this slow taper will allow me to remain so - 

 

I hope my updates help others - they help me for sure - and I wouldn’t have gotten here without this site - 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Update: 

 

it’s been quite a while since I’ve felt this low. 
 

I do have a few things going on that may be contributing to this wave - I believe it’s hormones and stress. I went back to work full time, and I am not sleeping well at all. Actually I’ve been sleeping horribly and I have a lot of stress. I think those are the main factors - it makes me consider going back on a med - but I hope I can see this lift soon and know it’s a wave - maybe it is depression- the only thing I can do is try to cope- My sleep is so so off too - I just want to sleep all day at around 8pm I’m wide awake until 3-4am - I have to get up at 8:30, I do this every day and even if I don’t nap once I get home - I still cannot sleep at night - I do feel eerily similar to when I was in acute withdrawal/reinstatement/adverse reaction- not as bad as before but genuinely worried I may get there - 

I started hrt about 2 mos ago due to dangerous UTIs - the hrt helped but I stopped it about 4 days ago thinking it was contributing to my depression and anxiety - it may have been - I see my doc about it next Thursday- 

 

I hope I feel better soon or at the very very least, don’t get worse - hope you all are finding a moments peace today- 

[Vonnegutjunky]

So it’s Sunday and I feel like it’s Groundhog Day- like I can’t believe I’m back to this after not having waves like this for so long- I genuinely thought they were behind me  what makes this so much harder for me is that I tried to move on with my life - I went back to work- got clients that need me - and I was so happy thinking I left this experience in the past and was healed - I am so disappointed and now I’m very scared that this will be my life forever now- I’m still on my med - still not fully off and still after almost 10 years experiencing these waves - I don’t know what to do anymore - I wish I would have never tried to come off this drug- I just want to stay functional and I worry that for some reason I won’t - I do feel the hrt didn’t help but for it to get me this unstable is scary - I want to sleep all day every day and when I don’t - I’m a ball of depressive anxiety with feelings of doom all around -  if I try to wait this out I will lose my job - the last time I lost my job, I didn’t care - I was in. Too much emotional pain to care - I may need to call in sick for a week or so- depressing 

[Vonnegutjunky]

So it’s Tuesday night - I’ve cleared all of my clients for the week - I’m not working again until Monday- I hope that’s enough time to feel better - 

 

one of my main stymptms and I don’t know if anyone can relate to this - I feel significantly better if I don’t have to do anything - like if I can just stay home on my couch or bed and watch tv or read - I feel a lot less doom and gloom feelings - it was like this during my adverse reaction too - I don’t know why that is - I guess I feel if I knew the answer I could build a plan to healing sort of around that - maybe I’m doing too much and my cns is telling me to slow down? The stress of 2 jobs, a sick kid, and planning a wedding then hopping on then off hormones really did it for me- I hope this is a long enough break for me 

[TreeFrog]

Hi, @Vonnegutjunky, I've been reading your recent posts. I don't have much to offer except that I really hope that this wave is passing and that you're feeling better now. I send my best wishes to you.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks so much - 

[Rosetta]

Hi.  I hope you are feeling better.  I would stop tapering for a long while, if I were you.  Just let your system settle.  The HRT and the stress can both cause problems.  Try to let everything quiet down.

The sleep issue is so tough.  You could look up and try a sleep ritual.  Some people shower or take a bath every night before bed.   Soothing music.  Heating pads - I use them for everything, but having a warm shoulder wrap will help induce sleep.  Is there anyone who would rub your feet or your arms and hands? Magnesium might help.  
 

I hope you feel better soon.

 

Rosetta